SFA Head alignment problem.

[The Cumbrian]

I've had my Small Forest Axe for a few months now, although it hasn't been used much ( I'm more of a "break a stick into bits over a rock, rather than chop it up" man ). Recently, however, I was using it quite a lot and it didn't feel right. I checked the alignment of the head, and when I looked along the bit, rather then being aligned with the centre of the toe of the haft, it was aligned with the extreme RHS of the toe.
As I've said above, this affects the feel of the axe quite a lot, but is it grounds for returning it and expecting a replacement?
My "everyday" axe, that I use for chopping wood in my back garden all winter is a mass produced tool, but the alignment on that is perfect, so I was expecting the same on a craftsman made axe.
I'm not asking too much am I?

[Bushcraft4life]

British Red would be the man to ask regarding this but i'll give my 2c worth.

I have heard of a few problems with the head allignment which has put me off buying another one, apparently, quite a few SFA have this defect.

I think you are well within your rights to expect a replacement, the Axe costs over £45, for that kind of money you should expect quality.

I'll leave BR or anyone else to chime in, but i would contact the company you bought it from or Gransfors themselves and see what they have to say.

The Axe has a 20 year warranty anyway so there should be no problems.

[Tony]

Yeah, if the head is out as bad as you describe then get it swapped out, we swapped out out the other day because of that ;)

[British Red]

It doesn't sound great. If the alignment as bad as you say you are likely to feel the axe glancing (rotating) in your hand when it strikes because the blade is not correctly aligned (perpendicular to the line of impact).

Is thats whatit feels like? Kind of like the axe being puled /twisted when it strikes?

If so its clearly misaligned and I would have a (polite) conversation with the vendor. Remember that many of those who sell axes are not expert in assessing them - if you can check them over personally before buying do so, or talk to someone like Tony or Lurch who know their product if possible

Red

[Staghound]

I've bought a few GB tools recently and have been disappointed with the quality control on a couple of them, not bad exactly just not as good as I would expect from Gransfors. I would say take it back, after all you can get an 'any old axe' for a fiver, you pay the best part of fifty notes for a GB because you expect it to be a damn good tool.

[littlebiglane]

Take it back. A misaligned head can cause poor placement of the blade on the downward swing. Bad placement can cause deflection - and this can be dangerous. Anything which interferes with the control of the blade is a bad thing.

edit: oopps, just saw Red's response. Making mine rather superfluous!

[The Cumbrian]

I've emailed the vendor ( I bought it online ) so I'll let you all know how I get on.

Cheers, Michael.

[Jedadiah]

Did you buy it from a 'water-based predator' on e-bay? If so, i've been in the same boat recently, i'd be interested in what the reply is. :rolleyes:

[steveo]

I had the same trouble with a gransfors scout axe that i got as a present last year ! the quality was very poor and the head looked twisted :eek: ,i didnt use it just sent it back, the replacment was perfect.

[Bushcraft4life]

This is what is putting me off buying the Scandi Forest Axe, the finish is so poor, and in my eyes this is only a recent thing, a couple of years ago when i got my first SFA the finish and fit was absolutely second to none, the whole axe was perfect.

What could be the problem?

[The Cumbrian]

Did you buy it from a 'water-based predator' on e-bay? If so, i've been in the same boat recently, i'd be interested in what the reply is. :rolleyes:

It's not from the 'water-based predator' on e-bay, I bought it off an online retailer that offers us in BCUK a discount, although I ordered it before I realised that they did.
I'll name and praise or name and flame depending on the outcome, but for the time being I'll give them the benefit of the doubt.

[The Cumbrian]

Well folks, the saga almost ends here. Rob at Wilderness 1-2-1 sorted me out admirably, sending me a new axe without even hearing from Gransfors ( we've both been trying to get in touch with them, but to no avail ).
I'm now waiting to hear from Rob what he wants me to do with the original, defective, axe, either send it to him or to Gransfors, when someone at the factory finally learns how to answer emails.
I suppose that the moral of the story is to try and buy this sort of tool in person ( when I bought my axe I didn't know that anyone sold GB axes locally. I've since found out that I only live a couple of miles away from Lurch and his container full of shiny things ). As I couldn't get a GB small Forest Axe in person at the time, I'm glad that I used a good, reputable online dealer such as Rob. Although this may seem to have taken a long time, the delays can all be laid at the feet of GB.


Cheers, Michael.

[The Cumbrian]

I've taken a couple of pics for a side by side comparison of the original and new axe. The defective one is on the left:

http://i161.photobucket.com/albums/t219/donskidude/IMGP3020.jpg


http://i161.photobucket.com/albums/t219/donskidude/IMGP3016.jpg


Looking at the heads like that it seems to be a problem with the head rather than the way it's mounted. Curiously enough though, they're both made by the same smith, MM, Mattias Mattsson.

[British Red]

Aaah if I'd known it was Rob I'd have known you would be okay - good retailer there!

How does the new one feel?

[The Cumbrian]

Aaah if I'd known it was Rob I'd have known you would be okay - good retailer there!

How does the new one feel?

It only arrived this morning so I've not had a chance to use it yet. I'm hoping to get out for an overnighter in the canoe this weekend so I'll take it with me then. I've found a new place to camp where there are no fire pits, rubbish or other recent sign of human botheration. When I went there last week all I heard was the birdsong and the sound of the deer running away when they finally heard me.

[spamel]

Maybe MM is going through a divorce or something and his mind isn't on the job! I have an MM SFA, and I've seen others with MM axes and none have had issues. Maybe they are working harder as their product has become more well known and quality control is slipping to allow for the increase in workload. A poor excuse, but a feasible reason for the low quality.

[Lurch]

Rob at Wilderness 1-2-1 sorted me out admirably, sending me a new axe without even hearing from Gransfors

Rob's one of the good guys.
;)
That's customer service how it should be.
Shame to hear that MM is apparently of his game as he is the most prolific of SFA producers. Though the two may not be entirely unconnected.
Makes me wonder if Gransfors may not be a victim of their own success?

[The Cumbrian]

Makes me wonder if Gransfors may not be a victim of their own success?[/QUOTE]

It makes me wonder if the accountants have taken over the QA department. Not every craftsman made product is going to be perfect, but in my experience if the individual craftsman is in charge of his own QA the bar is always set pretty high.

[MartiniDave]

A bit off topic, but I'm currently working on a project with a large Swedish company. It seems to be the norm for everybody to take a month or more off at this time of year. Not a shut-down, just what they always do!

Glad to hear you've been sorted out though.

Dave

[Bernie Garland]

Ive just recieved mine today from Lurch, and its also an MM but mine is faultless,many thanks Lurch for your quality control.

Bernie

[robin wood]

I've taken a couple of pics for a side by side comparison of the original and new axe. The defective one is on the left:

http://i161.photobucket.com/albums/t219/donskidude/IMGP3020.jpg

.

Well i thought I would add my two peneth worth and I know I am rather a lone voice. :swordfigh I would say that is not a "defective" axe and is perfectly fit for purpose. In fact if I was doing a lot of felling as a right handed user I would prefer the tool on the left as it would mean I would have to bend down less to get a felling cut near the ground. I could also use it very happily for snedding or splitting firewood. If I was doing a lot of right handed carving I would prefer the offset to be the other way but really 2 degrees is going to make little difference if you know how to use it.

It is important for an axe to cut well that the edge strikes perpendicular to the direction it is traveling but the haft does not have to be in line with the edge to achieve that. Many old hewing axes have the haft off to one side to keep the knuckles of the user away from the wood, the offset can be quite significant up to 20 degrees and the axe still works well so calling an axe with a 1 or 2 degree offset defective to my mind is simply asking too much. The left hand axe would be more difficult for a left hander to use for many tasks but perfectly usable and perhaps even preferable for a right hander.

Quality control at Gransfors incidentally is the responsibility of the smiths. The smith that forges the head of your axe also fitted the haft to it.

[Bernie Garland]

Thanks for the info Robin,and no one more than you should know,with your experience with various axe's,i'll have to send mine back now for a right hander:D

Bernie

[Lurch]

Heh! I'll keep a look out for one for you!
We just got 10 SFAs in yesterday and they were all MM. We are trying to get a JE or an LN for a customer but it seems that SFAs are Matius's bag at the mo.

[British Red]

Robin,

I think I would diagree to some extent with "fit for purpose". Thats true of some purposes - less so of others. I absolutely take your point in terms of broad axes and other shaping tools and "defective" is an emotive term for certain, but if I asked myself "would I select that particular axe" the answer for "all round" use - particularly with a view to splitting, would be "no". I have certainly seen worse, but it would be disappointing. I have encountered axes that certainly turn or buck in use due to poor head alignment and the idea of modifying my "swing" to each axe when I may use several in a day does not appeal.

The only thing it proves to me is that its always best to pick your axe in person from several examples if possible. That way you get to select based on the features that you personally find important. I know its not easy for everyone to do, but I find that those who have vastly prefer it

Red

[The Cumbrian]

[QUOTE=robin wood;422639]Well i thought I would add my two peneth worth and I know I am rather a lone voice. :swordfigh I would say that is not a "defective" axe and is perfectly fit for purpose.

Robin,

It's not as if the edge just feels a bit off parallel to the helve, it also feels as though the edge isn't directly underneath it when you're chopping with it.

Cheers, Michael.

[The Cumbrian]

The saga of the misaligned head has been sorted out. Rob replaced my axe for me, and even sent me a gift ( a groovy little LED light that clips onto a 9V battery) because I had to send him the old axe twice, due to a mix up with the post that wasn't even his fault.

Thanks again to Rob at Wilderness 1-2-1, who I'd recommend to anyone, and could you let us know what GB have said about the axe Rob, if they ever got back to you?

[johnnytheboy]

my wildlife hatchet is abit off as well, mm stamp on it, to be honest i wasn't overly impressed with the gb axe, its not a good allrounder, wished i got a cheapo bahco or an estwing

[NatG]

i think with axes there come a point when further development is essentially pointless in most cases- a knife is a complex tool used for many different jobs and needs to be to a high standard due to the delicacy of the tasks done with it.

An axe on the other hand- and i think this is true with most of the "bushcraft" crowd- is used for breaking up bits of wood that are abouyt to be burnt, an d as such perfect head alignment isn't essential. When doing carving and other such activities i can understand why greater qualitry could be important but for splitting firewoood and felling the odd tree, a cheap axe will do nearly as well as one costing £50

[johnnytheboy]

There is the outside possibilty the axe skids of the material being cut, possible cause the bit not being true and the blade has caught something and deflected the blow, honest nat the hatchet just doesn't seem right when you are cutting with it

[robin wood]

my wildlife hatchet is abit off as well, mm stamp on it, to be honest i wasn't overly impressed with the gb axe, its not a good allrounder, wished i got a cheapo bahco or an estwing

I'll give you the price of a Bahco or Estwing for it. :D

[johnnytheboy]

Done, £37.99 for a estwing in screwfix ;)

[johnnytheboy]

Its actually more out of alignment than i thought


http://i202.photobucket.com/albums/aa263/pikeangler/012-1.jpg

[robin wood]

Done, £37.99 for a estwing in screwfix ;)

Well I was a bit hasty that's a bit more than I pay trade for a new one but I am good for my word and the head alignment doesn't bother me, it is good for a right hander, in fact Japanese hewing axes are hafted with exactly that alignment. So if you you will swallow the postage I am happy to give you the £38 and you can get the Estwing.

Robin

[Dave Budd]

is it just me or are people a little too obsessed with straightness and orientation?

I'm with Robin, you get used to the tool in your hand. I've got axes that are way further out than that, but I don't notice it because I autoimatically adjust to how the blade is cutting when i use it. For general camp chores (including carving) the angle of the axe wouldn't cause huge problems until it meant that I was actually using an adze by mistake!

just my opinion of course :rolleyes:

[johnnytheboy]

Robin, if you can buy one cheaper trade then we could just do a straight swap, let me know what you think? Its the leather handled one i was looking for.

[robin wood]

No I don't buy Estwings it was the trade price on the GB I was talking about, no probs though I am happy to add it to the collection or tune it up and pass it on to a course student that likes it.

[robin wood]

Paypal on its way John. Out of interest i just had a look at my wildlife hatchet. i have used this quite a bit myself and really rather like it, quite a few folk on courses have used it too and everyone has enjoyed using it. I never bothered looking at the head alignment and it feels right in my hand but having taken a look the alignment is pretty much the same as John's.

http://i206.photobucket.com/albums/bb176/thewoods_album/IMG_6627.jpg

[Lurch]

Most MM wildlifes seem to have that slight cast.

[Dougster]

My MM SFA that I bought nearly 3 years ago has that same head misalignment.

I bought it when I saw Ray using it, then learned it was a duffer a year later, feels fine tho'.

[johnnytheboy]

The hardest thing i found taking this picture was to get the axe handle point upwards to show how off the head was from the handle alignment, i took about 20 pics to try to show the true alignment in relation to the handle, if you look at the handle it is slightly to the right of where it should have been which means the alignment is even further out than where the photo shows. If you look at your picture robin the poll is not parallel with the bottom of the picture, which shows the axe is slightly twisted in the photo, which is not showing the true alignment, it will be interesting to see both of them together it will be pretty hard to get a decent picture to show the difference as its hard to picture one not two. The axe is bound to had a good carpentry use as you can buy axes specifically sided, i think robin you will be able to put it to pretty good use in this situation as you do allot more woodwork than me.

I think maybe the key thing that we have discussed is avoid the MM ones or inspect them heavily before your purchase.

Thanks for helping me out robin, i much apprecaite it, hopefully you can put it to good use, I will post it asap

[The Cumbrian]

http://i161.photobucket.com/albums/t219/donskidude/IMGP3020.jpg




As I'm the only one so far who's used the axe in question, I'd like to clear a few things up.
Firstly, although I have a normal job and a normal house, I use an axe almost every day from October to April to split logs and chop kindling for my woodburner. For this I use an axe made by CK with a similar length helve to the SFA, but with a heavier ( perfectly aligned ) head, that I paid less than £20 for.

When I bought the SFA, I was looking for an axe about the same length that I had at home, but with a lighter head. After reading lots of reviews on here and elseware, it seemed that in the size that I wanted. the SFA was the canines cahoonies.

I duly ordered the axe, and when it arrived I used it to split a few logs at home ( which, although it's not designed as a splitting axe, it did well enough with seasoned, sawn logs ).
After this, it was stored with my canoe camping kit and taken, but not used, on a few trips.

When I eventually started to use it for chopping fine kindling, the misalignment of the head made itself immediately obvious. Quite a few people here have said that the alignment of the head isn't too important. All I can say is that if it isn't, why is the importance of the alignment stressed in the Axe Book provided by GB, and how did I notice it, when I'd never checked an axe's alignment until I used mine and felt that it wasn't right?

In my opinion, the argument settler is the above photo. Not only does it show the misalignment, but it also shows the difference in the thickness of the metal on either side of the head. Would you be happy if you'd have paid nearly fifty of your Hard Earned Notes for something like that?

[johnnytheboy]

I'm gonna regret saying this as i'm gonna get pelters but i agree, i use hand tools on a daily basis at work and when i get home chopping wood for the fire, i had an old axe i got given which was no bother at chopping logs and splitting rounds and kindling. With everyone going on about GB axes i thought the wildlife hatchet being about the same size as my other one would be a good replacement. The thing is its not, it just isn't a good allrounder, splitting wood is brutal as it gets choked on the cheek of the axe. I got the bushcraft book by mors kochanski as recomended on this forum and that more or less says the same thing that that shape of a gb axe is not a good allrounder, I am better off with one like the bahco stlye head.

The thing i noticed about your axe is the handle sticking up through the eye has the corner missing, is this because your axe came off what you were cutting chipping this wood? My GB came off a branch i was trying to cut into my foot, all be it a stupid place to put my foot i always wonder if it was because the head is misaligned not hitting the branch where i expected and deflecting into my foot, because of this i lost confidence in the axe.

I recon that the axe will serve a pretty good purpose in someone like robins hands, when i see the video on your site robin there is no doubt you are a master with the wood but for what i need it for chopping fire wood rattling about the campfire etc i need something a little more rough and ready. The thing that really worried me was when i read the axe book it says not to use the poll as a hammer as it could open the eye up but by heck robin you don't half give that carving axe a pounding with the baton, are the carpenters axes made stronger than the other ones? that is impressive

[robin wood]

The thing that really worried me was when i read the axe book it says not to use the poll as a hammer as it could open the eye up but by heck robin you don't half give that carving axe a pounding with the baton, are the carpenters axes made stronger than the other ones? that is impressive

I think they are advising not banging it against metal, I don't think any amount of whalloping with a wooden maul would open the eye, at least I have never seen it happen and as you can see I do whallop them.

[johnnytheboy]

Its a good website you have, for anyone not seen an axe in proper use http://www.robin-wood.co.uk/gwvideo.htm that is a propper whacking it gets. I fancy one of your spoon carving courses, will run it past the better half over the next few months, see if i can get the funds authorised.

[robin wood]

Its a good website you have, for anyone not seen an axe in proper use http://www.robin-wood.co.uk/gwvideo.htm that is a propper whacking it gets. I fancy one of your spoon carving courses, will run it past the better half over the next few months, see if i can get the funds authorised.

Who was it who said "better to beg forgiveness than ask permision"......not me.:D actualy i think it was Ranulph Fiennes