Survival Tin ?

[Scots_Charles_River]

Seems cheap and good value,especially with the box. Anyone got one ?

http://www.genuinearmysurplus.co.uk/pages/products/detail/rowid=927
SURVIVAL KIT IN ALUMINIUM CASE
Product DescriptionPrice: £ 14.50
SUR08

Compact and sturdy water-tight aluminium survival tin.

Contents:
Button compass
Wire saw
Flint and steel
ID whistle
Snare
Waterproof matches
Brass match box
Plasters
Pencil
Fishing pack
Mirror
Safety pins
Dressing
Water carrier
Salt sachet
Razor blade

[RobertRogers]

hummm....the "Flint and Steel" appears to be a mag bar and hacksaw blade. Makes me suspect the kit entirely

[rik_uk3]

I'm not convinced of the true survival value of any of these little kits to be honest. Things like the wire saw don't last two minutes, fishing kit? Where in the UK will you be stranded for so long that your very survival depended on catching fish (and could you catch any with a couple of hooks and a bit of line?)

Much better to make up a small hip bag of your own kit I would think.

Just my pennies worth;)

[FarPoint]

It seems like a fine little kit and the tin is big enough to add some extra goodies. My concern with these kits always is a kit that tries to be all things in all conditions. If I am in the woods in november, I need different items than if I am on the seaside in June.

I also think that if you head out for an adventure, you will have a firesteel and/or lighter in your pocket, a whistle and compass around your neck and a good knife on your belt-I personally carry a bunch of stuff around my neck- and so the question is how many small substandard bits and pieces do you need to carry if you have the item to do a proper job with you as a matter of course.

[Doc]

If you are looking for something like this, the Doug Ritter kit is probably the best available. But I agree with Rik. The main dangers in British wild country are slipping and falling, and exposure. Death from starvation is almost inconceivable in the UK.

Of course, in other parts of the world it could be handy.

[ANDYRAF]

The trouble with most of survival tins I've seen is the size, if it doesn't fit in a pocket it's to big, because if it 's in you back pack that'll be the first thing you lose, and that means it needs to be small to be handy.

[rik_uk3]

Agree 100% about the size and of course content as dictated by where you are, time of year etc. People here like John Fenna make great leather 'possibles' pouches, could be ideal for a home prepared UK kit, or something like a Molle hip bag which is about 12x6x6"

So, what would you carry in your UK survival kit?

[Minotaur]

Not a very good kit, is my first thought.

I do carry the old style tobacco tin survival kit, as per the SAS Surivial Handbook minus the beta light which has always struck me as a lot of money for a little use.

I am changing it for the two tins from Survival Aids(Highlander tins under surivial). That way my survival kit will have a food/water boiling item. Would like to know if the two small tins fit into the big tin.

One of the things that has happened, especially since 9/11, 7/7, and New Orleans, is that my true kit is a lot more modular. I carry a cheap small sak style knife, that would not upset me to loose, all the time, and a solitare maglite all the time(+spare battery). I also carry a mini-cigar tin, all the time, with plasters etc. If I am going to be away for some hours, I add a bag of some description with more kit inc a better blade(either a sak huntsman or leatherman charge).

The big problem I found with the kits is you just forget about them, so when you need the stuff it is out of date, or damaged. If you use it all the time, you only have to remmember to refill it.

[He' s left the building]

Much better to make up a small hip bag of your own kit I would think.




Agreed 100% with that, when I tried to sort my own kit out I quickly realised that I was looking for gear that would fit in a small tin just because it was conveniently small enough to fit in the tin, not because it had any real value in a tight situation.

For example, a condom to carry water in? In the desert you would need a much bigger container than that to make any difference to your survival chances. In rain-forest where water is plentiful, how long will a condom last before it splits, even if protected inside a sock (and how do you walk out to safety with only one sock?!!)

I'm reading Cody Lundin's books right now, he dispels a lot of survival myths and prefers to talk about guiding principles rather than hard-rules, and function rather than fashion, well worth reading! In most (if not all) climates, the most important survival gear would be the clothing you were wearing, closely followed by 'are you injured?' and 'does anyone know where you are?'

I think Nessmuk had the right idea by carrying a possibles pouch containing indispensible items in addition to his main pack.

[Scots_Charles_River]

Seems cheap and good value,especially with the box. Anyone got one ?


That will be a no then.:cool:

Worth it and for that box too.:D

Nick

[wingstoo]

Lofty swears by his and takes it everywhere he goes when away from home...After all he did develop the original

LS

[Scots_Charles_River]

One of the things that has happened, especially since 9/11, 7/7, and New Orleans, is that my true kit is a lot more modular..

Howabout a wee windup torch ?

Nick

[bikething]

That will be a no then.:cool:

Worth it and for that box too.:D

Nick'that box' can be bought empty for £4.99 -it's a copy of the BCB one.

[Scots_Charles_River]

Hillwalking or caneoing in scotland or possibly elsewhere in the Uk is still a survvial situation for some folks. Exposure and lack of food tends to kill.

Nick

[Scots_Charles_River]

'that box' can be bought empty for £4.99 -it's a copy of the BCB one.

BCB copied Sigg ?

Nick

[bikething]

BCB copied Sigg ?

Nicknot seen a Sigg that small, or that shape, but the highlander one shown is a very close copy of the BCB one...(i've got both)

[Scots_Charles_River]

Now I need one of these, for those urban situations...............

http://webshop.bcbin.eu/products_pictures/en_bcb10_991.jpg

[bikething]

Now I need one of these, for those urban situations...............

http://webshop.bcbin.eu/products_pictures/en_bcb10_991.jpg

you couldn't cook in it - the plastic would melt :p

Mini mess tins - Highlander on the left, BCB on the right :
http://i140.photobucket.com/albums/r16/Bikething/misc/minimesstins.jpg

[rik_uk3]

Hillwalking or caneoing in scotland or possibly elsewhere in the Uk is still a survvial situation for some folks. Exposure and lack of food tends to kill.

Nick

Agree about exposure Nick, but how many hikers starved to death in the UK in the last 10 years.? Would a few fish hooks save you? (no, not really)

How much food in the tin that started this thread?

[Doc]

Here is a link to the Ritter kit which I think has better quality components and is more functional.
http://www.equipped.org/psp/index.htm

SCR's comment about paddling is interesting - I know he goes paddling in wild areas of Scotland. I do too, and often worry about tipping the boat, and ending up wet and cold on some loch shore with nothing but my clothes and buoyancy aid. In that situation, death from hypothermia is a real possibility, and in some areas, fire lighting equipment could save your life. Of course, on many lochs, there is nothing to burn.

I always carry 'lifeboat' matches in my buoyancy aid.

Its interesting to compare these kits with what Mors Kochanski says you need to survive: 'a knife and a pot'.
Of course, he is assuming a) you are in boreal forest and b) you have something like his level of skill.

[w00dsmoke]

[QUOTE=Doc;400111]
SCR's comment about paddling is interesting - I know he goes paddling in wild areas of Scotland. I do too, and often worry about tipping the boat, and ending up wet and cold on some loch shore with nothing but my clothes and buoyancy aid. In that situation, death from hypothermia is a real possibility, and in some areas, fire lighting equipment could save your life. Of course, on many lochs, there is nothing to burn.

QUOTE]

In that situation there is really only one very good lightweight product that will save your life...I'm amazed so few people know about them far less use them. I've used a blizzard tube for years. The tube is bigger than the bag and you can get two in it.

http://www.blizzardsurvival.com/product.php/100/blizzard_survival_bag

[Doc]

I'd agree that is a good idea.

What are they like to sleep in? I guess you get some condensation?

[w00dsmoke]

They come shrink wrapped, and the idea is when you need to use it, you rip the shrink wrap off, shake the blizzard bag and it looks a bit like bubble wrap, the shaking inflates the cells giving you air to insulate you and it is wind and water proof. Yes you will get condensation, but the tog rating is some where along the lines of a light quilt. I've never slept in one, but have had one in my grab bag for canoeing for years. After you have used it for real, you can send it back to be shrink wrapped again at the factory or you can use a hoover and do it yourself (you'll never get it back to shrink pack size yourself), you can buy a small stuff sack to keep it in if you have used it. They are multi use, ie you can use it loads of times before needing to replace it.

I'm thinking about buying the military spec jacket version as it has roll down sleeves and would enable you to paddle out if needed.

[Doc]

Even allowing for condensation, the concept is attractive for non-survival use (ie, a planned bivouac.)

Normally minimum overnight kit is 1.5kg for a mid weight sleeping bag plus 300g - 1kg for a bivi bag or tarp/hammock combo. but if you could get a comfy night in a 350g blizzard bag, then multi day trips with a small daysac become achievable.

I think I might get one to try for non emergency use (recognising it will never pack down as small as an unopened one.

Sorry SCR, I seem to be taking the thread off on a tangent.

[bikething]

Mini mess tins - Highlander on the left, BCB on the right :
http://i140.photobucket.com/albums/r16/Bikething/misc/minimesstins.jpg


Here is a link to the Ritter kit which I think has better quality components and is more functional.
http://www.equipped.org/psp/index.htm


There's a Ritter PSK inside the right hand tin, along with a small locking penknife ;)

[Scots_Charles_River]

Sorry SCR, I seem to be taking the thread off on a tangent.

Nah, nice bit of kit. I still have the foil ones from the Glasgow Charathon,in 1980 something.

Blizzard bag is a cross between a Bivy Grp Shelter and a foil blanket.

Re- Starvation if you are stuck in the highlands, food will help warm you. I always take some MREs or flapjacks/mint cake but I end up eating it ! not in a survival situation.

I taught a Product Design project two months ago and one pupil asked if the SE Asian kids do survival stuff. She then showed me a website with a 'Family Pack' - tarp, plastic sheets (jackets/ponchos) steri tabs etc. Lucky in our relatively benign Uk land.

I'll get one of the kits and show my 7yr old how to use them, yes, even the fishing kit. On a wee overnighter paddling trip.

I'm away next week, canoe camping, we always try to be at least out of sight of any civilisation to give a wilderness taster.


Nick

[jamesraykenney]

Seems cheap and good value,especially with the box. Anyone got one ?

http://www.genuinearmysurplus.co.uk/pages/products/detail/rowid=927
SURVIVAL KIT IN ALUMINIUM CASE
Product DescriptionPrice: £ 14.50
SUR08

Compact and sturdy water-tight aluminium survival tin.

Contents:
Button compass
Wire saw
Flint and steel
ID whistle
Snare
Waterproof matches
Brass match box
Plasters
Pencil
Fishing pack
Mirror
Safety pins
Dressing
Water carrier
Salt sachet
Razor blade

I think I paid $20.00 usd for the BCB version of that case a while back. Seems to be a good price.
That IS the pound sterling and not the Euro symbol, right? If it is a Euro symbol, then it is a great price.

I wish I could tell the brand of the mag bar that they call a flint and steel.
If it is a no-name brand, then you have to be careful because the ferro rod in them tend to fall out and can be lost.
A real Doan(spelling???) mag bar is the only one I would trust completely, but any of them can save your life. Even if you do not use the magnesium block, they still make a decent fire steel.

ONE snare will not do you much good.
It seems like a nice kit to START a survival kit with.
The case looks like it has a LOT of extra space that could be used to build a very complete large pocket kit with.

BUT, I would not want to get caught with that kit in Great Brittan...
Would not the razor blade constitute a fixed blade, and get you arrested???:eek: :lmao:
You know... that was meant as a joke, but, has that ever come up?
It would seem to fit the definition of a fixed blade knife. Maybe I should post a question in the law forum???:confused:

[helixpteron]

I think w00dsmoke was spot on regarding the Blizzard Survival Bag and Jacket, the UK Military selected Blizzard Survival Bags and Kit after some extremely thorough real life testing in which the Blizzard consistently out performed every other type.

Other Military and Rescue services chose Blizzard for the same reason.

Another worthy, tiny and lightweight item is the Aerovest, http://www.aerovest.com/

As has already been stated, a canoeist or kayaker is more at risk from hypothermia (having NOT drowned), than any other factor.

A grab bag is only of use if actually grabbed, and retained!

The only real means of ensuring that you will have the equipment which will save your life, is if it is actually on your person at all times as you may not be able to rely on anything which is not secured on yourself.

[Ahjno]

I've got a survival tin ... Made it up myself, sometimes carry it with me in the woods for fun ... Think we should do a poll amongst our 8.756 members: who did ever lost his backpack with full kit, other than theft or war/combat situation? ;)

[decorum]

I've got a survival tin ... Made it up myself, sometimes carry it with me in the woods for fun ... Think we should do a poll amongst our 8.756 members: who did ever lost his backpack with full kit, other than theft or war/combat situation? ;)

Been there..... well, almost. I had to dump my pack after an unexpected tumble landed me in a river - luckily I recovered it at the point I'd intended crossing the river. The experience moved me back towards a more natural way of experiencing travelling and learning to not rely on hi-tech kit.

[helixpteron]

Ahjno,

You clearly lack the ability to read and interpret the obvious fact that my statement referred to canoeists and kayakers whom, in an emergency, may not be able to grab and retain their grab bag.

Canoeists and kayakers tend to secure their kit, not in backpacks on their backs, but in barrels, dry bags, plastic tubs and expensive waterproof cases (and lots of bin bags).

Almost without exception, ALL of their kit will be secured to their craft to ensure that it does not become lost through drifting out of reach, sinking or both, in an emergency.

Hence the use of a grab bag, IF it can be grabbed and retained, if not, .....well, that's where my last point hits home.

Rather than conduct a poll amongst your quoted 8.756 members, you may care to research actual instances in which experienced, motivated, well equipped outdoors travellers became separated from their fully equipped backpacks and had to rely on just what they carried on their person, in non warfare or theft scenario's.

Instances of this type have occurred in built up areas in western countries as well as more remote locations.

Thankfully, you have fully equipped yourself with your self made up survival tin, which you 'sometimes' carry with you 'in the woods for fun'.

No doubt Doug Ritter could learn a lot from you!

[rik_uk3]

Think about what you carry on you when out and about in the woods and hills, you should already have some stuff with you.

Typical for me is
Mora knife and fire steel in a Dougster leather sheath
Ever reliable Nokia 6310 in holder (and ziplock if wet weather)
Turbo flame lighter
Small pack of Kleenex (wipe my specs, nose or light a fire)
Leatherman PST


There you go, I can wipe my nose, clean my specs and do an E.T.

[Buckshot]

Ahjno,

You clearly lack the ability to read and interpret the obvious fact that my statement referred to canoeists and kayakers whom, in an emergency, may not be able to grab and retain their grab bag.

Canoeists and kayakers tend to secure their kit, not in backpacks on their backs, but in barrels, dry bags, plastic tubs and expensive waterproof cases (and lots of bin bags).

Almost without exception, ALL of their kit will be secured to their craft to ensure that it does not become lost through drifting out of reach, sinking or both, in an emergency.

Hence the use of a grab bag, IF it can be grabbed and retained, if not, .....well, that's where my last point hits home.

Rather than conduct a poll amongst your quoted 8.756 members, you may care to research actual instances in which experienced, motivated, well equipped outdoors travellers became separated from their fully equipped backpacks and had to rely on just what they carried on their person, in non warfare or theft scenario's.

Instances of this type have occurred in built up areas in western countries as well as more remote locations.

Thankfully, you have fully equipped yourself with your self made up survival tin, which you 'sometimes' carry with you 'in the woods for fun'.

No doubt Doug Ritter could learn a lot from you!

helixpteron, that sarcasum and condesending manner is not needed at all.
I don't think Ahjno was referring to you in his post - you just happened to have posted before him.
I think the point he's trying to make is what are the chances of needing a PSK?
Of course that doesn't get over the fact that when you need something like that you really NEED it!
It's personal choice. I don't carry one when in the UK because I carry a knife and a phone which is all I need in the areas I routinely go. However, when I went trekking around the jungle last year the PSK was never taken off from around my neck. Fortunately I didn't need it but it was close just in case.

Mark

[helixpteron]

Buckshot,

There was no sarcasum and condesending manner in my post, as you state.

Nor was there any sarcasm and condescending manner in my post!

You assume knowledge of whether Ahjno was actually referring to me in his post, and to the point that he was actually trying to make in that post.

I believe that Ahjno's post referred directly to my point regarding losing one's kit and having to rely on that which is carried on the person.

You assume an in-depth knowledge as to the mindset of members whom post, yet when you use your position as a Mod to publicly criticise me, you cannot even spell the words of criticism which you attribute to me!

The object of a forum is for members to express their own opinions, not for a Mod to attribute their own interpretation of what that members opinion may be.

That apart, thanks for the response.

[rik_uk3]

Helixpteron, it did read as being a tad snotty to say the least mate.

[Ahjno]

Ahjno,

You clearly lack the ability to read and interpret the obvious fact that my statement referred to canoeists and kayakers whom, in an emergency, may not be able to grab and retain their grab bag.

Canoeists and kayakers tend to secure their kit, not in backpacks on their backs, but in barrels, dry bags, plastic tubs and expensive waterproof cases (and lots of bin bags).

Almost without exception, ALL of their kit will be secured to their craft to ensure that it does not become lost through drifting out of reach, sinking or both, in an emergency.

Hence the use of a grab bag, IF it can be grabbed and retained, if not, .....well, that's where my last point hits home.

Rather than conduct a poll amongst your quoted 8.756 members, you may care to research actual instances in which experienced, motivated, well equipped outdoors travellers became separated from their fully equipped backpacks and had to rely on just what they carried on their person, in non warfare or theft scenario's.

Instances of this type have occurred in built up areas in western countries as well as more remote locations.

Thankfully, you have fully equipped yourself with your self made up survival tin, which you 'sometimes' carry with you 'in the woods for fun'.

No doubt Doug Ritter could learn a lot from you!

Helixpteron,

THIS post is referring to you, as oppossed to my previous post. If there's anyone here who lacks the abillity to read and interpret, it's you Sir. If I would have referred to your post, that happened to be the one before mine, I would have used the Quote-system. My comment was more random and Buckshot is right by saying I was aiming at what the chance is you need a PSK.

I'm glad to see you care about me and are thankfull for the fact I equipped myself with a PSK ... (you obviously never been into dutch woods, are you?)
Doug Ritter is more than welcome to my neck of the woods though. And I love to learn him some tricks :)


Buckshot,

There was no sarcasum and condesending manner in my post, as you state.

Nor was there any sarcasm and condescending manner in my post!

You assume knowledge of whether Ahjno was actually referring to me in his post, and to the point that he was actually trying to make in that post.

I believe that Ahjno's post referred directly to my point regarding losing one's kit and having to rely on that which is carried on the person.

You assume an in-depth knowledge as to the mindset of members whom post, yet when you use your position as a Mod to publicly criticise me, you cannot even spell the words of criticism which you attribute to me!

The object of a forum is for members to express their own opinions, not for a Mod to attribute their own interpretation of what that members opinion may be.

That apart, thanks for the response.

You believe my post refered directly to your point losing kit. That assumes an in-depth knowledge to my mindset aswell. Pot-kettle-black to me ...
Apart from that: make sure your comments are based on facts, instead of 'believe'.

I won't comment on this subject, as I've got some better things to do than OT this thread. If you feel the need, you're more than welcome to PM me.

I've reported both your posts. You're way out of line here.:nono:

ATB
Johan

PS - Must thank you, as you've written my forumname without any errors :D :You_Rock_

[Tony]

I appreciate that this has cooled down a little, well I at least hope so. :D

You're a bit quick with the guns there helixpteron and very petty to pick on spelling when we all make typing errors, well, most of us do.

Anyway, so as not to drag this out and take the thread completely out of subject I'll just ask very politely that you do not jump on people like that again and that you think before posting, it helps avoid all this time wasting that we're forced to participate in.

apologies and all that I'll leave to your integrity.

If you can't resist, don't post.

Hope all is well now and the thread can get on track again, sorry about the obstacles to your reading :D

[Scots_Charles_River]

How do you report a post ? Other forums have an icon to click.

Nick

[Buckshot]

How do you report a post ? Other forums have an icon to click.

Nick

Click on the warning triangle in the trh corner of the post in question. To make sure you have the correct icon if you hover the mouse over it it says 'report post'

[forrestdweller]

Compact and sturdy water-tight aluminium survival tin.

Contents:
Button compass
Wire saw
Flint and steel
ID whistle
Snare
Waterproof matches
Brass match box
Plasters
Pencil
Fishing pack
Mirror
Safety pins
Dressing
Water carrier
Salt sachet
Razor blade

well, the tin itself looks solid to me. and unlike those cheap fishcan-style tins you can open and close it and check the contents and the lid will not open itself by accident.

but: why do they pack a "flint and "steel" and waterproof matches? do they expect the "flint" to fail? and why waterproof matches? according to my experience they are NOT waterproof(independent from producer) and tend to coat the striking surface with the wax and then they will not ignite. a waterproof match container makes in my opinion more sense.
and one snare? i would say you need at least half a dozen. and what size of animal are the talking about-rat?squirrel?rabbit?something bigger? and no cord?
and a pencil without paper to write on?
and what for is the sachet of salt?
for a short-term situation this tins might be o.k. but i would rather make my own, based on my experience, where i go and what i'm planning to do- then you know exactly what's inside and how reliable it is. and for a longer trip a belt pouch with some items (in case you get separated from your backpack)plus your knife and a bigger pouch with additional stuff in your backpack seems a much better idea to me.

"disappointed by the monkeys, god created man. then he renounced to further experiments." mark twain

[leon-1]

Someone pointed me in the direction of this thread.

I have read through it waiting for anyone to point out the blatantly obvious. Survival tins are based around military survival situations. Most military people do not carry a given set, they tend to mix and match what they want in a tin. They are also taught to look upon survival kits as being that you carry a number of them, the first being your bergan, the second being your webbing and the last being a tin of this type.

ANDYRAF mentioned quite correctly that it has to be something that you can fit in a pocket, but the pocket most of these guys are looking at are the bellows pockets on their jackets.

Why the fishing kit?

That's obvious, a lot of military experience has taught them that the least effort goes into fishing and that if you are going to be static for more than 24hrs then night lines can reap rewards.

I do agree that a solitary snare is pointless, but if there are a few of you together then it ceases to be a solitary snare.

In the end this type of pack is based around military experience and tailored for their needs not those of the civilian market. It is however missing a method of sterilising water as you wouldn't always have either the time or the resources for starting a fire.

My advice, buy the tin and fit in it what you will use, tailor it to your needs.

[Tourist]

Good advice Leon.

I personally put together my first tin during an army course in 1983 and it contained all the things Lofty listed. As time moved on things were swapped for other items I added a maglite solitaire which was later swapped for a tichy tiny LED torch. There used to be a little knife in it which was changed for a small multi tool and then a small leatherman. It also has a couple of joke birthday candles that you cannot blow out. Now there are also a couple of phials of pottasium permanganate and something else along with a mini ziploc bag containing vaselined cotton wool balls.......even the tin has been changed a couple of times as it got too battered to continue carrying it. It lives inside a pair of fresh socks with a high energy drink powder sachet all of that being inside a ziploc bag.

The chaps I know that carry these as part of their first line kit normally have them stashed in the lining of a jacket with a couple of stitches around them to hold them in place. I was shown one of the newer official issue kits a couple of years back........they do not look like anything I have seen for sale. If you were to buy the goodies in one it would cost you close on £100 - £120, then there is the tin itself cunningly crafty in its design and I have yet to find a manufacturer that shows it in their catalogue......I've looked.

PSK's are primarily a military thing, they are a tool of last resort, they are not B&Q or Tesco in your pocket if you have one you should never dip into it.

[Scots_Charles_River]

But having one in the car and the bottom of a rucksac does help. Just like having MRES and some water in a hillwalking rucksac or car.

Solitary snare - why is it useless ?, surely if you can catch something then great.Those spring shut traps for fish looked good. Also the postive aspects of getting a bit of success when in that situation.

Nick

[Tourist]

Nick, the idea behind the PSK is that it is what you have on you in case you lose your rucksack whilst fording a river or climbing a mountain or maybe your canoe sinks underneath you. It is stashed on your person in a comfortable unobtrusive place, some put them in a pocket others in the lining of their jacket.

If you have it in a rucksack for ready accesibility it is, in my opinion, part of your everyday walking kit. Most people I know have a bag or box with bits and pieces in stashed in the car for motoring emergencies, snowbound traffic jams and the like, it makes good sense. Try a four hour traffic jam with a nine month old to reinforce the commensense of having kit in the car........and smiling at the rep in the car next to you when sipping a cuppa.

As for snares, traps and lines get them out there......if you catch something marvellous but, as has been pointed out starvation in the UK, Europe even, is highly unlikely. Here you are more likely to need to deal with the effects of injury or sudden weather change, a space blanket in the PSK is good for keeping the body warm whilst you wait for help or the weather to change.

Just my ramblings.

[Scots_Charles_River]

Your rucksac is always on or next to you when hillwalking so should not be lost.
I have never seen a walker or climber in the hills with a seperate PSK outside their pack.

A personal survival kit aids survival. That's it.:cool:

So when I'm travelling I have a small bumbag with diocalm, passport, paper money, ins. docs etc. Not a fish trap.:rolleyes:

Nick

[leon-1]

Solitary snare - why is it useless ?

Ask people that use snares a lot, they will tell you that you never use just one, the success rate is quite poor and a single snare has a very low probability of catching anything even when properly set.

If I wanted to catch something using snares in a survival situation I would be looking at probably between 12 and 20, maybe more. The chances that you would ever need snares in the UK for survival are pretty slim to say the least.

Also snares that are used for survival situations would probably be frowned upon in normal use as what you really want is a locking snare that will not allow your prey to work it's way loose. I think you'll find that all commercial snares in the UK are free running.

[Tourist]

I have never seen a walker or climber in the hills with a seperate PSK outside their pack.

But what if they are seperated from their pack? Like I said, a PSK is a tool of last resort in case everything goes pear shaped.

[JohnC]

IIRC the Doug Ritter pack was intended to be carried on your person, it has a flexible container and relatively flat profile to let you carry it in a pocket..