View Full Version : what did everyone think then?
so then. did it live up to expectations?
Squidders
09-09-2004, 21:08
there are 2 bits I won't forget in a hurry...
1. Ray looking like a vampyre after making the hand impression on the wall
2. The ant trying to make off with his fungal tinder
It's nice to see a diferent perspective on it all, rather than "this is how to not die" :super:
Back to the stone age, what an excellent topic..... not a fero rod or knife in sight. Well done all round.
Ed
I agree it was very good. A lot of information to take in and worthy of a second viewing.
Seems this 'back to basics' approach is the theme so I will definately look forward to the next programme.
Well done Mr Mears.
I really liked the way he didn't show off his £200 knife or any of the fancy kit. bushcraft as it should be. I must admit I got a bit bored when he talking to that woman though. I have seen a lot of stuff like that before but I suppose it helped set the sceen. I really like the bow making.
I agree. Looks like another one to watch all the way through.
Can anybody satisfy my thirst for the knowledge of 'how many people were active on here between 2000 and 2100'??????
mr dazzler
09-09-2004, 21:18
Them elbow axes and other flint blades-just outstanding and amazing
I wonder if he let the other 2 fish go??
I agree. Looks like another one to watch all the way through.
Can anybody satisfy my thirst for the knowledge of 'how many people were active on here between 2000 and 2100'??????
Between 5 and 8 :wink:
Cheers Adi. I will sleep well tonight now. Well, without bugging Mel about my thirst for knowledge :o):
Them elbow axes and other flint blades-just outstanding and amazing
I wonder if he let the other 2 fish go??
not very nice for the camera crew was it
maybe they don't like his cooking (apart from Andy who I've sen eat a right load of crap in his time)
I've looked forward to the new series and looks like its going to be good.
As an Archer who has made a primitive bow, but with modern tools, it was excellent to see Chris using basic tools used to make the bow - only one thing I wasn't too sure of on the programme - the "canned" birdsong - I'm sure the cuckoo followed Ray around.
Graham
It was fanbloomintastic :biggthump Next weeks should be a continuation of the UK bushcraft :wink:
there are 2 bits I won't forget in a hurry...
1. Ray looking like a vampyre after making the hand impression on the wall
You should have seen my sisters face when she walked in and saw it :rolmao:
mark wood
09-09-2004, 21:34
Excellent stuff. What was the green smock with the goretex tag on?
The papers bill next week's as being about the amazon jungle.
Mark
The papers bill next week's as being about the amazon jungle.
Umm :cry:
Excellent stuff. What was the green smock with the goretex tag on?
The papers bill next week's as being about the amazon jungle.
Mark
I think it was this:
http://www.raymears.com/shop_item_desc.cfm?id=360&itemType=Clothing
Mmm, not at all bad.
I had to nip "out back" at a critical time and missed the stringing of that bow; what did he use for that?
Seagull
Paganwolf
09-09-2004, 21:52
awsome ancient technology at its best forget gore-tex and flippin ventile !! that was a taste of pure bushcraft a tree gives you hunting tool a stone gives you a means to make that hunting tool and the earth gives you fire a means to cook your food and keep you safe and warm.Pure essence of bushcraft, we seem to get absorbed in kit heaven sometimes Human and Nature working together to achieve comfort and happiness is key...........bliss
Roving Rich
09-09-2004, 22:01
Yeh Fantastic, his best yet, back to the old Tracks standard :biggthump
It answered a few things that had been bugging me like the use of Sinew ! and then there was the bluebell bulbs...and pine resin glue. I also really enjoyed the museum bit , just to see how fine the tools were.
But best of all :yikes: My girlfriend had a rehearsal so asked me to video it for HER !!!!!! :super: :o): :hyper:
Rich
how many copies of that have we got between us then. I'll be going to Uni soon though I my family will try to record them all for me
Squidders
09-09-2004, 22:07
Human and Nature working together to achieve comfort and happiness is key...........bliss
I think, given the choice, the deer on the program would prefer not to work together to feed Ray :nana:
SquirrelBoy
09-09-2004, 22:11
how many copies of that have we got between us then. I'll be going to Uni soon though I my family will try to record them all for me
I think they will be made available on DVD/VHS so no worries about missing them,although it might be a wait...
Yep, a good one even if some bits did look rather familiar from what he's done before.
Cheers
David
I think this is a conspiracy! you guys all thought "Jake's missed it, lets rub it in a bit"
:mad: :lol:
Oh well, will it be on the next DVD?
I was thinking of the vikings in our ranks that couldn't watch it. I'm sure someone will be able to post you a video of it if you can't wait till you can buy them
I wouldnt want someone to go to the trouble, my own fautl, i guess its something for me to look forward to when it comes out. Is Ray Mears on tomorrow as well?
Excellent- we spend too much time talking about the minutiae of kit, and the back to basics stuff is well overdue.
I didn't watch it all, but I'm giving my eldest sons (5 and 7) a special treat tomorrow - they can stay up late on Friday night to watch the video with dad!
I was especially pleased to see a high archery content as I've been getting more into this lately. It is a very old (maybe 20 000 years compared to 500 years for firearms!) skill that is immensely satisfying but does require a fair bit of time investment to get acceptably good at (I'm not there yet, but I'm getting better). I've just finished 'making' a dozen arrows myself - although 'assembling' might be a better word as I bought the cedar shafts, steel points, nocks and feather fletching, and you only really need to add time, glue and a fletching jig.
I think we are all going to learn a lot over the next few weeks.
Really enjoyed it! Now I remember why we have a telly :o):
A particular moment of deep satisfaction was seeing Mr Mears hook the three fish using thorns. Only last weekend at the Wilderness Gathering we sat through a very 'dry' survival fishing course during which the instructor repeatedly sneered at Ray's inclusion of such techniques in his books, condemning them as all but useless. Hah! :nana:
If it carries on in this form, could be the best series yet. (Sorry to rub more salt in, Jake)
Burnt Ash
09-09-2004, 23:12
I think they will be made available on DVD/VHS so no worries about missing them,although it might be a wait...
You mean like the 'Real Heroes of Telemark' series (isn't)??
Well, I hope so.
Burnt Ash
I think this is a conspiracy! you guys all thought "Jake's missed it, lets rub it in a bit"
:mad: :lol:
Oh well, will it be on the next DVD?
Dont worry Jake, you're not alone. I missed it too. i forgot all-a-blimmin-bout it untill I saw this thread. :roll:
bushwacker bob
10-09-2004, 00:24
Yes,I thought mr Mears was at his televisual best,SWMBO moaned that Bambi always gets it,but fair play to the man, skinning it with a flint knife.Didn't seem to have any entrails tho'. :shock:
Cant wait to see Ray surviving the Helicopter crash in a later program :o):
Interesting analysis of stoneage lifestyle :super:
MartiniDave
10-09-2004, 09:07
Yep, I give him 10 out of 10 for it so far! The first program the whole family has sat together and watched for quite some time! Michael - my 12 year old - has tasked me with getting together "all the stuff Ray had..." so we can make bows and arrows tomorrow!
Keep 'em coming Ray, we NEED more!
Dave
beachlover
10-09-2004, 09:08
Good progamme, but wonder which stone age company sponsored the gore-tex jacket? :nono:
Well I recorded it as I had other things to do.
Looked at it this morning and it started off fine then the sound dropped out. Fair enough, I thought, it might come back and I can still watch what's going on. (John Lord knaps so quickly!)
Then about 5 minutes later the picture quality dropped right out!
I don't know why this happened.
:cry:
Does anyone have a copy I can borrow please? :-) It would be much appreciated!
jamesdevine
10-09-2004, 10:07
:yikes: Iam the same as Stew. This bleedin weather.
Not an uncommon problem with reception from the UK this time of year but a shame I missed it. I'll have to record the rest and hope the best as I out of the country for a few weeks.
Glad to hear you all enjoyed it so much :cry:
james
Im glad im not the only one Martyn! I could have sworn it was on tonight!
(Sorry to rub more salt in, Jake)
:cry: :biggthump
Ah well. I was at a wine tasting. The hardship, the hardship...
:D
I liked it a lot. I liked the emphasis that seemed to be there on showing the actual detail of how he was doing a task - a matter he's been criticised for in the past.
And when he was walking along the ridge line with the lake in the valley... it was a matter of pure joy to see televised effectively the essence of what us lot are so passionate about.
This bleedin weather.
Didn't think about it being because of that!
:rant:
As others of you have said it was good to see RM going back to the basics, more in the ethos of the his Track stuff, very good so far.
Out of interest, do any of you have a copy of all his Tracks offerings? I’m surprised these have never been released as a video.
ranger
Out of interest, do any of you have a copy of all his Tracks offerings? I’m surprised these have never been released as a video.
ranger
Only one - it's titled "Our Man Flint" and he discusses a bit of flint history and he knaps an arrow head.
I thought it was fantastic the best ray mears program so far !!
pure unadulterated back to basics bushcraft and shown in a clear way that allowed you to examine the technics ready for you to head outdoors and try them.
I recognized much of what was in the program from rays no longer published "survival handbook" which makes me hope that it (or something similar) will be republished, it is without a doubt his best book but could benefit from the level of illustration found in his more resent titles
well done ray :biggthump
looks like we'll be having a pass around. with the videos people have got. I'll check mine to see if it's worked. There weren't any problems when I was watching it (I have a digi box by the way)
Bagheera
10-09-2004, 11:03
Hi guys,
I missed HALF of the episode and I'm not happy that I did :(
I would have taped it just like the other series and then when the DVD comes out buy that one and reuse the tapes.
I'm in the UK at our London office next week Thursday/Friday (September 16/17), any chance there's someone who could send me an VHS tape or perhaps even an CD with an .avi or .mpg or whatever format on it (SVCD?) I really want to see the whole episode.
We can figure out payment no worries.
Doesn't BBC do a second run of the same episode but then like in the morning/afternoon around a week later? can anyone let me know please.
By the way did you notice that Ray has lost a good amount of weight, he looks a lot thinner then he used to look in the last Survival series ( #3) ;)
Best Scouting wishes from Holland,
Bagheera :pack:
RovingArcher
10-09-2004, 11:06
I would have liked to have watched it. I wonder if our cable provider offers BBC2. Will have to check that out.
By the way did you notice that Ray has lost a good amount of weight, he looks a lot thinner then he used to look in the last Survival series ( #3) ;)
Yes, that was one of the first things that SWMBO noticed :roll:
I think it was this:
http://www.raymears.com/shop_item_desc.cfm?id=360&itemType=Clothing
No Adi, it's not a Recon, looked more like a fleece or maybe wool jacket with a Gortex liner, but back to the important bit, I really enjoyed the programme and if the rest are up to this standard we are all in for a treat. Not too sure where the rain forest comes into it though I thought the whole series was to be about bushcraft in the uk. Obviously got the wrong end of the stick again, should have heeded those old (very) school reports ' must pay more attention'.
C_Claycomb
10-09-2004, 11:37
Yes, noticed the slimmer version of Mr Mears. Also noticed the canned bird song that carried on unbroken from one shot to the next, including the stuff shot from the helicopter :rolmao:
Did anyone notice that there wasn't a great deal of "how to" information? There was lots of "look at what is possible..." and "this brings us closer to the earth and our ancestors".
I dunno. I liked it a lot more than the programs about people surviving crashes etc, but I felt that a lot of opportunities for providing more detailed info were missed out. We all know that you don't heat rocks that have been soaked by rivers, lakes or the sea, but it wasn't mentioned, and he was stood on a shore line. I don't feel any more able to ID iron pyrites having see the lump used in the program, you have to have read about tinder fungus to know to boil in wood ash, you don't just bind the arrow head to keep in the shaft, but to reinforce the shaft to prevent splitting on impact, nothing on bow strings...no explanations about why yew might be used, or mention of other woods used at the time.
I loved the fish hook demo.
My enjoyment was tempered by constantly seeing silent spaces when little nuggets of info could have been added.
I know I am being overly critical... :roll: guess I was just looking forward to it too much. It was still one of the best, and miles better than most things one could sit and watch :wink: :biggthump
So much for not getting hung up on the kit :-) . But for those of you who want to know - this is the stuff. Manufacturer is called Swazi and it's from NZ.
http://www.outdoorsupplies.co.nz/swazi.htm#rainwear
best regards
Paul
£200 ish, if they're NZ $ and not american!! Not bad at all..
Hey I watched that guy on tv last night and I am in two minds about the programme. I dont know what his other stuff is like but I kind of got the impression it was as Chris says, a this is possible, type deal. But I guess its a this is possible if you come on a course type deal.
As for the questions about his coat, gees you brits love your 'gear' but hey for 200 bucks thats to rich for my blood guess thats why he makes tv to pay for his jacket eh! :shock:
Wow, forgot to mention I like the programme though you get good tv in this country. :biggthump
http://www.tamarackoutdoors.co.uk/
This company do Swazi gear, the jackets are fleece with a Gortex lining and sell for £200-£230, I dont think I would spend this kind of money on a fleece, one spark and you've got a hole, far better to go with the Swandri wool/ Gortex combo if thats what you're after.
Great Pebble
10-09-2004, 13:33
Ummm..
It was alright I suppose. At least it wasn't in the bloomin' jungle.
Bit thin on "hard data" of which I'm a big fan and rather heavy on the "spiritual" stuff of which I'm not.
Still, no spoons, which is a plus.
I LOL'ed at the hand painting , although I suspect there was a spray can involved at sometime
and skinning the doe by hand ......outstanding
chugnut7
10-09-2004, 13:42
I liked it a lot. I liked the emphasis that seemed to be there on showing the actual detail of how he was doing a task - a matter he's been criticised for in the past.
And when he was walking along the ridge line with the lake in the valley... it was a matter of pure joy to see televised effectively the essence of what us lot are so passionate about.
I thought that too. It was good to see him struggling to light the fire with the flint and iron pyrites
It was alright I suppose. At least it wasn't in the bloomin' jungle..
next weeks programme he's in the Amazon Jungle... :o): Although I agree, I'd prefer to see a series where he doing everything in a temperate Uk climate. I suppose we'll have to see where he goes with this.
Bit thin on "hard data" of which I'm a big fan and rather heavy on the "spiritual" stuff of which I'm not.
Still, no spoons, which is a plus.
Well, yes, but how much of the "hard data" might be of interest to the general public? Compared to the size of BBC2s target audience we (who know between a bit (me) and an awful lot (everyone else) about the subject) are a tiny, tiny minority. In a real sense the programme wasn't for us - we're believers already. It's for those who might not even realise such skills exist; and too much techie detail could be off-putting, especially in the first - stage setting - programme.
If this series gets more folks out doing stuff, then so much the better as far as I'm concerned.
bothyman
10-09-2004, 14:33
I LOL'ed at the hand painting , although I suspect there was a spray can involved at sometime
Yes I prefered the ones he did earlier :lol:
Why did what he was doing constantly go out of shot????
Liked the views from the helicopter though.
Metala Cabinet
10-09-2004, 14:54
Not too bad at all. Bit light on the practicalities of primitive bushcraft but then it is aimed at the general public and not an instructional video for the bushcraft fan.
Bit unsure of the contemporary 'green' ethos - 'hunter-gatherers see animals as their brothers....' That may well be the case today (I don't know enough modern anthropology to comment) but we can't possibly know how people then thought. Fitting them into a modern ideology does them a dis-service - they weren't 'noble savages' but rather sophisticated human beings just like us; the only difference being their culture and technological base.
Though this is a hotly debated issue, one could reasonably argue that the aboriginal Australians were in part at least responsible for the death of as much as 85% of all large animals on the continent. Similarly the first arrival of human beings in the Americas may have resulted in the extinction of the mammoth, mastodon, camel, sloth and giant beaver. Finally, hello Man, bye bye the moa.
So although early humans may not be the 'tree huggers' modern ideology might want them to be at least you can't fault their hunting technology!
Whey hey... I hope they continue to be as good as the one last night. I really enjoyed it.
It was good to see Ray fishing with hooks from natural materials. I’ve been using hooks made from natural materials off my boat and on the beach for a while now and was a bit surprised at the wilderness gathering when on the fishing lecture we was told to forget it.
I’m quite sure setting a tidal long line in a lot of places is illegal without a permit. Being dangerous to Joe public also wild birds who might take the bait. I’m sure I can remember something on the net by the environment agency asking people to report any sighing of tidal long lines. Does anybody know how we stand on setting them?
The bow making was great but I think Chris had a point, the string. I’ve made a few bows and arrows in the field (with modern tools) but I’ve never been able to make a string anywhere near the strength needed without making it rope size.
:-P
Bit light on the practicalities of primitive bushcraft but then it is aimed at the general public and not an instructional video for the bushcraft fan.
well put, I think that's spot on. It's easy for us to want more, a lot of people probably have enough to think about with what they got from the programme!
falling rain
10-09-2004, 19:47
It's amazing to me that after this programme SOME people are talking about Gore Tex jackets and kit again.!!!!!!!!!! :shock: Is that all you noticed from the programme ? I posted something on this a while back that there are more posts in the kit section than any others. It was a great programme and I thoroughly enjoyed it. Bushcraft as it's supposed to be. Full marks to Ray and if it's an indicator for the rest of the series I can't wait for next week at 8pm. Some great little tips to try out. Excellent :super:
TheViking
10-09-2004, 19:54
I posted something on this a while back that there are more posts in the kit section than any others.
As somebody mentioned before on a thread about this: this is because there are many sub-forums under bushcraft. You know, Tips n' Tricks, woodland chatter, bushcraft nutter, resources etc... :wink: :biggthump
It's amazing to me that after this programme SOME people are talking about Gore Tex jackets and kit again.!!!!!!!!!! Is that all you noticed from the programme ?
You'll just have to face up to the fact that not everyone is the same as you..... some people here love their kit. Its a very subjective subject, ie there is no right or wrong answer and therefore generates alot of disscussion, as opposed to other forums where a question is asked and a answer is given.... not an opinion which then goes onto a 2 page thread with other peoples opinions.
As said above, if we split the kit forum into shelter, clothes, cooking equ etc.... then the post count would look alot smaller.... we've just lumped it all together except for knives.... and transport (for those landy lovers).
:-)
Ed
falling rain
10-09-2004, 20:33
Don't get me wrong, kit IS an interesting subject, and there's some great stuff out there to make our lives warmer, easier and more comfortable out there in the wilds, and I DO understand it's interesting to compare the pros and cons of whats available. But after such a fascinating programme on how our ancestors lived and made tools cooked painted and made hunting weapons, caught fish etc.. In a gore tex free age...It strikes me as .... Well kind of sad that all someone has to say about last nights programme is 'What Jacket did Ray have on, and where can I get one'. I'm not trying to upset anyone it was just an observation. Anyway I agree with the many that it was a good programme possibly the best I've seen yet from RM and captured perfectly the essence of the real meaning of Bushcraft and what we all love and hope to spend our lives practicing and becoming more proficient at. :wave:
C_Claycomb
10-09-2004, 21:19
Yes, just like Falling Rain said, down with modern kit, up with neolithic kit :wink: :o):
Where do you think he got his bit of yew, do you think it was English, European or imported from the US, what differences does that make? Is the improved knapping performance of moose billets over those from red deer enough to justify trading with the Swedes? Are knapped flint hand axes better than those of abraided green-stone? Is there a significant difference between the warmth of hare undies compared to beaver? What is your favorite type of buckskin, brain tanned, or egg tanned? :rolmao:
If we were all working with stone age tools the fact that we are human would have us discussing kit just as much as we do now. The only people who do not talk about kit are those that have to live with what they've got, and have always lived like that.
Personnally I take the interest in Mr Mear's wardrobe as fairly amusing. In this case the humour is in his wearing goretex while talking stone age technology. :roll: :lol: In anycase, if it looked like good clothing, take the information where you find it.
SquirrelBoy
10-09-2004, 21:34
Perhaps Ray should of presented the program in a pair of Beaver Undies :rolmao:
mr dazzler
10-09-2004, 22:02
You make an excellent point Claycomb about it just being in our nature to talk about kit, whatever technological era we happen to be born into. For sure our ancient ancestors for whom tools and tool technology were so central and fundemental "kit talk" must have been an important way to learn and pass on skills and knowledge (no books cds schools compooters tvs ect) Is it stretching the imagination a bit to picture our ancestors from different places or regions meeting up and comparing spear points, axe & arrow head shapes, etc. (or squabbling over which was't best!! :roll:) I know someone else said 'twas a bit boring that woman talking etc, but I for one needed to be reminded our ancestors were just like us. We've had too many modern humanists telling us our ancestors were heathen savages, and we're now better cos we have opera, art galleries, string quartets, novels, sociology, education etc
On a slightly different tack, I am fairly sure that the inuit have about 17 or 18 words for "snow" depending on its density, texture etc, wheras us sophisticated westerners have just one. Like Mr Mears said about the artists who drew the animals - they'd butchered them 100's of times and knew the anatomy very closely, there knowlege was direct not abstract or superficial.
I would have thought Ray would have used a deer shoulder blade to shovel't sand, mind. :wink: :wink: :wink:
(bear in mind i'm wirting this after 5 castlemains, and i'm the worst lightwei ght you've ever seen) Kit is great!! I love it, there is nothing better than having a knock at the door and it being a postman delivering your latest item! Crikey, i'm never gonna dirnk again :roll:
JAKe
Burnt Ash
11-09-2004, 13:01
so then. did it live up to expectations?
I really enjoyed the first programme. Fascinating stuff and beautifully produced IMO.
Some comments on a few of the remarks made in this thread:
I've personally never felt compelled to knit my own fish hooks. Good luck to those who wish to, BTW. If it makes you feel better people, then fire ahead.
Certainly, a nice fresh flake of flint can provide a very effective cutting edge. That's fine, if you have it available! The sad fact is that the greater part of the earth's surface geology will yield nothing even remotely suitable for making decent cutting tools. Best take a knife along ...just in case, eh?
BTW, this from the Woodlore web site: "A book and DVDs to accompany the series will now be available Spring 2005".
I wonder what the book is going to be called - 'Bushcraft', perhaps?
Burnt Ash
I recognized much of what was in the program from rays no longer published "survival handbook" which makes me hope that it (or something similar) will be republished, it is without a doubt his best book but could benefit from the level of illustration found in his more resent titles
Very much enjoyed it. I agree with the comment about it seeming to be based more on the skills expounded in his first book. Nice to see no emphasis on guns, knives (it's always bloody knives!), clothing, kit, etc. Great back to basics stuff which shows that:
a. It can be done
b. It doesn't have to cost anything (much)
Don't get me wrong, I love new kit as much as the next man but what these programmes is about is the raw and pure skills.
Rock on the next episode.
Just found out he's going to do more lectures next year at Tunbridge Wells. I went to his lecture at Eastbourne and the one at Tunbridge Wells last year and they're well worth it. I'm supposed to be going away to Lanzarote on a training camp in April and I've got a horrible feeling that it's over these dates - aaaarrrgghhh! :yikes:
how did you watch yours??
http://www.bushcraftuk.net/photopost/data/502/98raytv.jpg
the best way to watch ray
you and your gadgets :roll:
It's the CCTV that he has in the hammock to allow him to take a photo of himself that is really impressive!
that ... and the infrared cameras he has set up in a half mile radius :wink:
for anybody who missed it (like me) it will probably be repeated on sign zone sometime soon. keep your eyes on the tv guide.
BorderReiver
12-09-2004, 19:22
There are very few occasions when I regret not having a telly--and this is one of them. :cry:
I do hope this series comes out on DVD. :shock:
Well,
Has Ray finally lost the plot, did he have to include that very bad impression of Ken Hom, and to top it all looking like Hannibal the cannibal. I think he has finally lost sight of reality.
Frogo
Well,
Has Ray finally lost the plot, did he have to include that very bad impression of Ken Hom...
Is this a reference to "Ray Mears' Hot Rocks" by any chance?
What I got to see and hear of the programme seamed pretty good...but I didn't get to enjoy it...
My damn mother talked ALL THE WAY THROUGHT IT!!!
What 'woman' he spoke to? I missed a few bits whilst I was looking for some gaffa tape to tape her mouth...:tapedshut
This Thursday I'm going to send her to her room to work on her computer, or tape it so that I can wahtch it IN PEACE when she's gone to bed.
sign zone is usually on after midnight on weekdays, its basically just repeats with someone doing sign language as well. its not on this week but maybe next week.
cheers gb
ooh! i know the one. When i cant sleep i watch wildlife programmes at 3 a.m in sign! Maybe, that would be a nice suprise!
Cheers,
Jake
Really enjoyed it. Though I did find the cave painting bit a tad amusing ... especially when he was trying to give a narrative with all that red goo in his gob (give it a rinse and a spit first Ray, for godsakes, you're on telly!).
Have subsequently noticed some fresh carvings on stones up in the Peak District near Kinder Scout - inspired by Mr Mears, perhaps? Go 'rock' steady, eh folks - don't want to be accused of geological graffiti ...
Bring on the next one (shame they're not all set in the UK though).
G
I couldn't help thinking how neat his hair was after someone made a joke about it on here.
MagiKelly
13-09-2004, 21:47
I couldn't help thinking how neat his hair was after someone made a joke about it on here.
Don't you start with the Bl**dy jokes here!!!
For those of you who are confused
http://www.britishblades.com/forums/showthread.php?t=5412&page=1&pp=15
does anyone know what tinder he was using in the first fire he lit.. it looked like clematise bark or honeysuckle but he had soo much of it..
also how long does it take to cook the avarage limpit?
bothyman
13-09-2004, 22:06
I couldn't help thinking how neat his hair was after someone made a joke about it on here.
Oh dear, who would do something like that. :roll:
Don't you start with the Bl**dy jokes here!!!
For those of you who are confused
http://www.britishblades.com/forums/showthread.php?t=5412&page=1&pp=15
(Jokes)
Magikelly 189
andy 137
:lmao:
(Jokes)
Magikelly 189
andy 137
:lmao:
I don't have access to the PC as much as I would like to. I hadn't realised I was that far behind though. We have agreed not to flood the thread anymore though. If he does however my fingers are poised to wipe him out.
back on topic I doubt I'll like the next episode as much as I can't go there and play myself.
On the subject of kit, it would be nice to see Ray making clothes from skins. I seem to remember he got some boots made for him on one programme in the past and has also made shoes from coconuts
edited: Mnay of my posts in the jokes thread on BB are multiple jokes.
There are very few occasions when I regret not having a telly--and this is one of them. :cry:
I do hope this series comes out on DVD. :shock:
But if you don't have a telly then surely DVD is .... don't mind me ...
...entirely feasible using a computer.
;)
:lmao: this is one funny thread.
BorderReiver
14-09-2004, 18:54
...entirely feasible using a computer.
;)
Yep.Got the "Extreme Survival" DVD and play it on't computer. :-P
Metala Cabinet
15-09-2004, 12:25
How come if we're not all hung up about kit (as Falling Rain seems to suggest we may be) then why are the four threads with the most replies (apart from this one) all about knives? (I admit it, I've had a very quiet day at work). In the end it's just a tool, and a tool is just something to aid you to carry out a task - the means not the end. If Mors Kochanski (who definitely knows his s**t better than most) can ply his craft with a relatively cheap knife doesn't that suggest that the skills are the thing.
I'm not getting at knife fans or anyone else who loves their kit (knives were just the most obvious example) but there does seem to be an imbalance between knowing and owning.
Metala Cabinet
15-09-2004, 12:32
Ooops! I meant to say four out of the five most replied to threads other than this one were about knives. My reasoning still stands though.
Yep.Got the "Extreme Survival" DVD and play it on't computer. :-P
How do you get past the boss at the end of level 4 (The Forest of FEAR!)?
Metala Cabinet
15-09-2004, 12:35
I assume this is a rhetorical question?
MagiKelly
15-09-2004, 12:47
How come if we're not all hung up about kit (as Falling Rain seems to suggest we may be) then why are the four threads with the most replies (apart from this one) all about knives? (I admit it, I've had a very quiet day at work). In the end it's just a tool, and a tool is just something to aid you to carry out a task - the means not the end. If Mors Kochanski (who definitely knows his s**t better than most) can ply his craft with a relatively cheap knife doesn't that suggest that the skills are the thing.
I'm not getting at knife fans or anyone else who loves their kit (knives were just the most obvious example) but there does seem to be an imbalance between knowing and owning.I have seen this point a number of times and it is very valid. And I have a theory, but it may only apply to me :roll:
Due to work and family commitments I cannot spend nearly as much time as I would like in the great outdoors, however, I do have time, at work (like now) when I can review and order Kit. When you get something (knife, stove, whatever) for your outdoor adventures it feals as if you are at least preparing for time outside, even if you cannot spend the time there. I am probably not explaining this well but it gives us a tangible object to focus our plans and daydreams on.
For example when at home watching the kids etc as I pass where my knife is stored. I can take it out for a moment and imagine the use I will put this too when I get the time. In my head I am feathering sticks or building a shelter. In some ways it is like having something that remids you of someone who has passed on. Kit is a reminder of times past and opertunities to come.
Not sure if that makes sense but it is clear in my head so if we meet ask to have a look inside my head and you will see what I mean.
Aside from trying to get advise on what is the best pack/knife/stove etc by general consencus, we all like to show off a bit and say "I've just bought myself a great new...".
Just human nature really, and despite that fact that a lot of us try to take as little kit as we can be comfortable in the field with (I know I keep trying to reduce the amount of kit as I'm bloody unfit), kit plays a vital role in bushcraft, whether it be bought or made, and some people are gadget mad. (Point in case, I do a lot of cooking and my sister-in-law can't believe how many gadgets I have in the kitchen).
Metala Cabinet I think you are spot on there.
Mors still uses a frost knife (or model there of - it used to be the wood handled Mora classic) after what 40 year in the business which shows his high regard for the knife and to my mind his humility and genuine skill as an instructor. It speaks volumes of the guys 'class' - however having said that there is nothing wrong with owning the best knife (or any thing else) you can afford as long as you dont lose prespective of what it is your buying.
The Wilderness gathering was a point to note, many people wondered around armed to the teeth! :yikes: I noted one chap who wore two axes, a neck knife and sheath knife on his belt and a third strapped to his sack (now I'm not say he didnt know how to safetly use them - all I'm say is there is a limit) - I didnt know whether to laugh or run! Honestly he was better armed than I used to be when I didnt full contact Dark Ages combat as a hobby and to my eye and probably the eye of anyone with an announce of experience you could see it was more ego and less ability that drove him (rambo or last of the mohicans?). On the other extreme I had a lady come over and ask me to help her sharpen her knife which was a well used Frosts training knife as I ran her through sharpening (which she already know - she just wanted refreshing and had the humility to ask) I asked her what she used it for and she produced from her daysack several very well carved and elegant spoons, I was very impressed.
Now who would you trust with a knife?
More to the point who would you want with you on a journey?
My long winded point - clothes (knives) do not maketh the man!
I assume this is a rhetorical question?
Nope, I'm genuinely stuck on level 4. <tries to keep a straight face>
I didnt know whether to laugh or run!
In these cases I find it better to run THEN laugh. At least you're a safe distance away...:o):
Metala Cabinet
15-09-2004, 15:37
Sorry Womble I can't help you on that one but I'll get my son to ask around at junior school for the answer.also trying to keep a straight face.
Gary, I couldn't agree more. There's nothing wrong with getting the best kit you can but in the end the skilled practitioner can do good work with inferior kit. It's a matter of balance and priorities - better to know your stuff and have duff kit than be weighed down with expensive top-of-the-range gear and be clueless what to do with it.
Duff kit? Inferior kit?
Frost knives arent duffy kit! They may not waste money on handstitched leather sheathes or polished wooden burls from outer mongolia but they provide a 100% top quality, functional blade which is worth every penny and more, 300 years of production history and a swedish household name proves that.
Mors may have the ability to make do with a inferior knife but I doubt he would choose to use one (any more than you or I) and more importantly I doubt he would give them to his students to learn with if he thought them inferior! Where Mors trains his knife really is a tool he depends on, unlike us in blightly who mostly play at it.
This is the biggest con-trick of modern days - It is what advertisers get paid fortunes for by tv companies and big business - we are all doped into believing big is beautiful, the more you spend the better that thing is. Its capitalism at its best - quality doesnt have to cost a fortune. Indeed quiet often I have come across inferior kit which costs way more than its worth and superior kit which isnt as popular because its not seen on TV which is much better and cheaper!
Here, here Gary!
Good kit isn't necessarily expensive, while inferior kit can be dangerous, whatever the cost.
I'm happy to pay a good price for decent kit, but if I can get perfectly useable kit at low prices, I'd rather do that and have more money for actually getting to go on trips and use my kit.
And I'd rather pay for what has been proven to be a good piece of kit rather than pay through the nose for an ok piece of kit that has been endorsed/designed by some famous name. If someone wants me to advise their kit they can pay ME not the other way round.
There's no point in spending a fortune on 'the' best kit (as modelled by the guy with the Crest ring of confidence smile), if you can't afford to get to the woods and use it.
These posts are incredibly reassuring. I've only just entered into the 'bushcraft world' and it can be really confusing when you're confronted with so many 'buy me's I'm the best', Gortex is God and 'you don't want to buy that make love, you want to buy this one...'
(who are you calling love anyway, don't mess with me, I've skinned a rabbit...)
From a novices point of view, kit is something I feel I need to have some basic understanding of, I guess you have to a know a little about the 'fantastic, expensive shiny' gear in order to know that you may not necessarily need it.
The more you know the more of a considered choice you can make.
I like the feeling of a good knife, made by a craftsman, and having the feeling that what i have is certainly up for most tasks. (i'm only applying this to knives). And i also love knives, every one i would use, but i do like having a few to compare and enjoy.
*add* but i do also agree with Gary on the sole practicalities.
Metala Cabinet
15-09-2004, 16:40
Gary. I've not explained my point properly. There's no way I would say that Frost knives are duff kit; I've got one myself and I think they're excellent. I wasn't pointing the finger at any particular piece of kit (and especially not Frost knives) but merely exaggerating for effect. I'm sure Mors knows his stuff and that's why he chooses to use a Frost knife. My point is that even if he was forced to use a crap blade he'd be able to do 'work' to a far higher standard than most other people using the same blade because he truly knows his stuff.
To give an example: my brother is a bricklayer and I've seen him do very good work with seriously rubbish equipment when he had to. It may have took him longer (and involved a lot more swearing) than if he had his own tools but because he really knows his stuff he can still do a high standard of work. However I, who have no ability at bricklaying, could have his preferred tools and still not build a wall it'd be safe to stand near.
And yes it's so true about people mistaking the money cost of an item for it's practical value for the task for which it's ostensibly designed. Too much weight is put on who can spend the most to promote an item or on which celebrity has lent their name and face to a product. It's even got to the point where some manufacturers have had to charge more than item's worth because otherwise people think that because their goods are cheap they must be inferior in quality. Mad world!
Paganwolf
15-09-2004, 16:40
yes well put Kim x :wink: that rabbit wont be messing with anymore carrots thats for sure !! :rolmao:
I am learning, however, that no matter how sensible you try to be as far as kit goes, you always seem to end up with certain items that are completely surplus but that YOU REALLY WANTED ANYWAY.
AND THEN YOU SPEND AGES PLAYING WITH THEM IN YOUR LOUNGE...all very outdoors.
My list of completely surplus items seems to be growing...
oh dear. :shock:
Of course knives are like that Jake, people collect knives as things of beauty, art like, they can be exprssions the makers skill, lovely to look at and treasure (I've never heard of someone collecting waterproof jackets or cotton t-shirts although I am sure someone does) but thats besides the point, would you really want to take a £500 damaccus blade with mother of pearl handle and mammoth ivory inlays into the field to butcher a dozen bunnies? And if you did would it make a better job of it than a frosts clipper?
Whatever you buy dont swallow the sales blurb to easily is all I am saying.
MC, Sorry mate I knew what you were saying and I didnt, for a second, think you thought Frosts were duff kit all I was saying in my long winded way was that just becaase something is inexpensive doesnt make it duff any more than somthing that costs a fortune is good.
Anyway isnt it amazing how this thread have now totally turned from Rays 'back to basics' approach (where have i heard that before?) on the first episode of the series into a debate about kit - maybe that is really a sad reflection on what kit junks we all are!
[QUOTE=Gary](I've never heard of someone collecting waterproof jackets or cotton t-shirts although I am sure someone does) [QUOTE]
I take it your parents never went abraod when you were a kid then mate
Mum and dad went to XXXX and all I got was this lousy t-shirt
:wink:
Parents? What are they mate? And wheres abroad? :rolmao:
Paganwolf
15-09-2004, 16:56
if it works for you and you like it it doesn't matter if its got sprayway on it or Mr Buy Rights, (just an exsample you'd never see me in a shiny suit :rolmao: )but ! good outdoors gear usually has a name, even so if you bought a pice of ventile fabric and got your nan to knock up a smock it'll do the same job :wink:
Shiny suit and furry dice? Nice! :rolmao:
I can see Kim's white stilettos in your capri Jon!
white stilettos.
WHITE STILETTOS!!!!!! :yikes:
I have nothing to say.
I know what you mean Gary, i kinda like collecting knives for their beauty and enjoy using lots of them, i wouldnt buy a knife not to use it, but i still like collecting! (My Bison Bushcraft is in the post) :o):
In these cases I find it better to run THEN laugh. At least you're a safe distance away...:o):
From the sound of it, if he had laughed before running, the fella wouldn't have been able to catch him anyway!! :D
Paganwolf
15-09-2004, 17:24
does that mean i have to take your birthday prezzie back then kim! :rolmao: so you know the shiney suits im on about then Gary :wink: and Bison Bushcraft knife, I have the Bushcraft and have another custom jobby coming from Roger, I love it to bits ive got plenty of knives (aint we all :?: ) but the bison is class as is the Guy who makes them :wink:
To give an example: my brother is a bricklayer and I've seen him do very good work with seriously rubbish equipment when he had to. It may have took him longer (and involved a lot more swearing) than if he had his own tools but because he really knows his stuff he can still do a high standard of work.
Excellent point!
A point related to this is that it is very hard for a beginner to learn new skills with rubbish kit - very often bad habits are formed to compensate for the faults in the equipment (for example, I've fought hard wi' t'committee to allow the beginners I've taught to row to have access to decent boats)
Course, really excellent kit doesn't have to cost a fortune; my favourite example is the Swedish Army Trangia - simply the best!!
Paganwolf
15-09-2004, 17:57
I bought a swedish mess kit from Gary at Bearclaw, Excellent service it all came the next day, ive used it a couple of times very good bit of kit :wink: i agree with you completely ..
does that mean i have to take your birthday prezzie back then kim! :rolmao:
There is nothing in this dimension that could separate me from my bivi bag Mister, so don't even think about it.
Re Knives, there does seem to be an ethos around bushcraft that it's the one must have, hence the onus placed on them. It was really good to watch Ray's programme and see alternatives being used. Of course, a knife is one of those items that you'd much rather be with than without, but to place too much faith in any one piece of equipment is to underestimate your own self reliance, and that's a mistake, because when all else fails the one tool you're left with is you and it's best you get to know that one first.
Wise word! :notworthy :notworthy :notworthy
Paganwolf
15-09-2004, 19:59
[QUOTE=Kim][FONT=Century Gothic][COLOR=DarkGreen]There is nothing in this dimension that could separate me from my bivi bag Mister, so don't even think about it.
I was talking about the white stilettos i bought you :rolmao: there goes the surprise :shock: ill never understand my self if the psychiatrists cant do it then what chance do i stand :?: but as usual you are totally right human nature is to adapt and overcome, when i was a maintenance supervisor my favorite quote was "cant we make one" and you know what we usually did , may be interesting to go out and try and make say a bow or hand drill set with no tools just what you find :wink:
Paganwolf think back (all those years - know its hard) to when you were a sprog - did you take saws and axes and knives out with you to build a camp in the woods? Did you need the latest great fire making machine to light a fire?
Was it fun in those days?
Here is a thought (yes smoke is coming from my ears) maybe in over complicating things we take away a lot of the fun and the surprise - would our pleasure at building a good shelter be greater if we didnt have a high tech bivi bag to fall back on? Would our confidence be swelled or lessened if we could carve a bow drill set and light a fire without a knife be it a £10 frosts or a £200 whatnot?
Sod the philosophy, I'm not making a bow drill with my teeth, I'm taking a bloomin knife with me:o): :o): :o):
Paganwolf
15-09-2004, 20:25
True :wink:
Roving Rich
15-09-2004, 22:10
Blyme, talk about a thread getting side tracked !
We live in a consumer society, no 2 ways about it. Hence we are all obsessed with new toys, myself included.
If we only learn one thing from Rays series then it should be we don't need the latest gadget, we can live happily without it. It was not always this way.
Now i'm off down the shops to get some new batteries for my gore tex knife sheath warmer :o):
Rich
Re Knives, there does seem to be an ethos around bushcraft that it's the one must have, hence the onus placed on them. It was really good to watch Ray's programme and see alternatives being used. Of course, a knife is one of those items that you'd much rather be with than without, but to place too much faith in any one piece of equipment is to underestimate your own self reliance, and that's a mistake, because when all else fails the one tool you're left with is you and it's best you get to know that one first.
I knew Gary would love that!
Good point though Gary, about the woods when you were younger, i think as we grow up we need more things to entertain us. Our minds become less amazed by simple things, because we except more things as mundane. This isnt a bad thing though IMO.
GoreTex knife sheath warmer ... I want one!
Perfect for winter days! Careful Adi, don't start thinking about another Kydex project :wink:
I knew Gary would love that!
Good point though Gary, about the woods when you were younger, i think as we grow up we need more things to entertain us. Our minds become less amazed by simple things, because we except more things as mundane. This isnt a bad thing though IMO.
Not necessarily true.
For me one of the greatest things in life is finding wonder in simple things, the sunrise over the Sahara when I'm doing a camel safari, finding a rare orchid or other flower half way up a mountain in Slovenia, the azure lightning flash of a kingfisher hurtling upstream, watching a dipper feeding its young by Lough Erne in County Donegal, seeing an otter playing in the stream.
Yeah, I've got a kitchen full of gadgets, I've got a number of computers in the house that I've networked together, etc., but for me getting out into the countryside and seeing these natural sights just reminds me how cluttered modern life is, and recharges my soul to face the world of IT again. it's the modern world I find mundane, the natural world still delights the child in me.
Misunderstood...I agree that those things are absolute joys, the real simple joys, but when it comes to enjoying neature in the sense Gary mentioned i think it is harder to do so without a good knife! (IMO anyway). Those things you mentioned are rare, and so we dont have the feeling of "mundaneness" as it were. Its only with the things that we enjoy often.
:biggthump
Ok, may be I did take it a bit too literally. But even so, even things that I enjoy on a regular basis I don't personally find mundane, probably due to my nature of being an artisan at heart. But you can enjoy the thinsg Gary mentioned without modern tools as Ray showed.
As a kid growing up in the wilds of Kent, we did build shelters using flint or glass tools, yes even back in the 70s the countryside was littered, and ok, as we didn't knwo any better we just used to break off branches but we were kids who hadn't been tought how much damage we were doing to the trees.
Even only 10 years ago I did the same. Going away for a couple of days with the very bare minimum I could carry in my pockets, using natural tools and building a shelter, sleeping in a natural bed of bracken and heather, and foraging and fishing. It's only now that I carry a good knife every time I go out into the wilds.
I do sometimes long to camp that way again, but I've grown too used to my creature comforts - thermarest, sleeping bag, etc.
Maybe we shoudl let the child in us out once in a while and camp rough now-and-again to regain those heady, innocent days.
Coo, I'm feeling quite wistful now...
collecting pine resin the other day took me back to thetford forest when i was a boy,making dens and finding a suitable stick to go and shoot german paratroopers with or darthvaders storm troopers, better than any video game ,as for the kit thing i watched a doc about the weta workshop people from the lord of the rings team , real craftsmen ,very talented people and very interesting but found myself drawn to the different swannis in the backgrounds etc which anoyed me ,think we`re all guilty of it at times, but then the people at grimes graves wouldnt turn down a numatic drill would they,cheers
Metala Cabinet
16-09-2004, 12:18
There's an interesting article on a return to simplicity at www.primitive.org/nothing.htm It's from a primitive living skills perspective but I think it has a wider application.
Can't get the link to work...
Metala Cabinet
16-09-2004, 12:28
Sorry but I haven't had my coffee fix this morning. It's http://www.primitive.org/nothing.htm
Couldn't get the specific link to work either, but I've fixed it now ;-).....
The site itself is well worth a search.
Ed
Interesting philosphy! But I think I'll keep me kit.:wink:
bothyman
16-09-2004, 12:56
Please stop posting these links my book wish list is too long already :roll:
>> http://www.amazon.co.uk/exec/obidos/ASIN/1892784122/qid=1095335547/ref=sr_8_xs_ap_i1_xgl/202-8539459-3787067
I can see me getting another one for the collection
:?:
:wave:
The general theme of this thread also applies to the birding world in some cases. Often (not always the case of course) those laden with the most expensive bins and scopes know the least about the birds they are watching. I remember one bloke with top of the range swarovski gear in a hide and all he wanted to talk about was his gear! When asked if there were any interesting birds around, he didn't have a clue! The quiet chap in the corner of the hide with the battered old bins had a wealth of information to divulge!
Thomas Elpel. That's where the idea for my avatar came from.
Jakunen - yes I'll keep my kit too but sometimes it's enjoyable to see how little you can do with. Lighter on the pocket and the back too!
Jakunen - yes I'll keep my kit too but sometimes it's enjoyable to see how little you can do with. Lighter on the pocket and the back too!
Yeah, that's why i'm always trying to reduce my kit. I want to get back to the point were even my 26L Vango pack has space in it and I have enough kit to cope with what I'm doing.
Thanx to an accident on exercise I do occasionally get back problems, so the lighter I can go kitwise, the better for my battered, unfit old body. (Hmm, another new smiliey required - old g1t with a walking stick:wink: ).
bothyman
16-09-2004, 15:34
Paganwolf think back (all those years - know its hard) to when you were a sprog - did you take saws and axes and knives out with you to build a camp in the woods? Did you need the latest great fire making machine to light a fire?
Was it fun in those days?
Yes it was fun, Half a dozen matches and a Candle, Axe sneaked out of the Coal Shed, we didn't have Shelters we had Dens.
Bushcraft?? that was something you joined the Cubs or Scouts to learn never did join went a couple of times and didn't like it.
As you got older you called it roughing it, down the Army and Navy stores for the latest gear, for the simple reason there wasn't much else and if there was you couldn't afford it. :naughty:
Bushcraft never went away someone decided they could make a few bob by putting it on TV and it was reinvented as another way to get money out of people.
Next time you go out look at your gear and see how much of it you use and how much you really need.
Its nice to see someone is interested in getting out and about and not just collecting the latest stuff. :wave:
GET THE VIDEO SET UP NOW....or you may forget :wink:
YES!! 20 MINS TO GO!! Im sure not to miss it! (Watch this space) :biggthump
If your recording it jake make sure you don't lose the video :rolmao:
Wow that was great.
It was amazing to see a group of people discovering how to make fire all over again!!!
Makes you want to grab a stick and run outside in an effort to set things alight.
All in a very legal sense mind you.
gillmacca
16-09-2004, 21:09
It was a shame to see the modern world had change the tribe a bit. That is probably why they couldnt start a fire...wonder how many other things they have lost due to the modern world
Roving Rich
16-09-2004, 21:33
So erm what jacket was he Wearing ? :o):
:yikes: Wasn't that a Frost clipper ! not the woodlore shock horror, my god not the very Knife Mors Kochansky recommends - Your right on the money Gary :o):
Anyway back to reality - I enjoyed it. good to Ray getting exited about seeing tha canopy. Enjoyed watching the canoeing, they look so natural paddling around, and knocking out a paddle with a machete! Took me a planer, drawknife, circular saw, jigsaw and 2 sanders ! :super:
Well showing the natives fire by friction :notworthy Very tactfully done and a credit to Mr Mears - Well done Sir
Hope you all enjoyed it too
Cheers
Rich
:sulk::aargh4::cry::mad::angry ::cry2:
then I found out my little borhter was recording it for me. missed the very start but no info lost. however, there was something els that had ben recorded on the video between the two episodes so now it will have to go 1,3,2 (monty python fans will feel at home). there is space betwen the two episodes for the next but it can't overun. I've seen the second half though. I liked the way he was trying to explain about not upsetting the locals by showing them how to light the fire, most companies would edit that
I'd imagine that the environment may have something to do with the knife choice. The Frost will be for more rust-resistant than the woodlore.
Huon
If your recording it jake make sure you don't lose the video
:nana: I've got it all in my head Scott, and i shouldn't lose that :shock:
Wow, great programme. not he best IMO. My favourite has to be the Arctic Circle on in the 2nd series, that and a few others :wink: .
Roving Rich
16-09-2004, 21:41
:biggthump :rolmao:
So erm what jacket was he Wearing ? :o):
:yikes: Wasn't that a Frost clipper ! not the woodlore shock horror, my god not the very Knife Mors Kochansky recommends - Your right on the money Gary :o):
Rich
Certainly not a woodlore, was just about to ask if anyone recognised it so thanks for anticipating my question!
Still think I'd rather have my trusty staffy billhook than any other large bladed tool though. Didn't see anything it couldn't do and being that bit smaller its that bit less accident prone to my mind.
Cheers
David
knocking out a paddle with a machete! Took me a planer, drawknife, circular saw, jigsaw and 2 sanders ! :super:
and it still ended up looking like a tooth pick!
:nana:
I thought the whole thing was a bit of alright, though I winced at him shaving a stick, on his thigh, whilst squatted on his honkers.
What struck me the most; why the fellah was positively radiant throughout, clearly enjoying himself.
Indeed, I half expected him to let off a bit of steam with a few impromtu cartwheels, or such.
Lets have a lot more of the same.
Ten out of ten.
Seagull
Roving Rich
16-09-2004, 22:31
Toothpic ! Well it has been compared to a Zulu spear :rolmao:
And I think iwas wrong on the Knife - Frost Mora not a clipper :?:
Cheers
Rich
bushwacker bob
17-09-2004, 00:47
:icon_idea maybe his woodlore was nicked(it was south america) :aargh4:
maybe he left it at home as he knew how long the waiting list was for a new one if he lost his :doh: (like Jake)
or maybe He's sick of giving away woodlores to tribal leaders :present:
:aargh4: I missed it!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
could i borrow a recording off somone??
This was great stuff
Knife looked more like a Mora to me.
I wouldn't like to try a billhook in the jungle, prefered a matchete myself in Belize over 20 years ago, only thing I was surprised to see was the way Ray carried the matchete when walking through the forest - we were allways taught, when not in use and especially when walking - sheath it.
Good tv though, well done Ray Mears
Are the people with him on these his own Uk staff, ie, the guys in the boat etc or just tv team people. What a job eh?
Chris :wave:
Buckshot
17-09-2004, 08:33
:aargh4: I missed it!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
could i borrow a recording off somone??
What no hammock Stuart ?? :?:
Cheers
Mark
Anyone knows if there are any CD's on the market with songs by Mr. Mears?
I think it will do great in the car, whilst driving long distances :rolmao:
Very good show last night, especially (as mentioned by others) the part teaching how to make fire to those local chaps ... :super:
IMO the climbing tree part was a bit over the top - rather had seen some MORE (cultural) antropology :naughty: (which I've studied for 6 months at uni).
Can't wait for the next episode :o): Anyone knows where that'll be? (Arctic, desert?)
:wave:
Aye, it made great TV! Though he does make me nervous sometimes - the way he handles his blades!! Practice what you preach, Mr Mears, or one day it will surely end in tears (and fountains of the red stuff ...).
G
Yeah, it was a pretty good one. And my mother ACTUALLY DIDN'T (DIDN@T) TALK ALL THE WAY THROUGH IT!!!!
He did handle the fire teaching very diplomatically.:biggthump
Thought the handle of his parang was a bit dodgey though. Looked more like a brolly handle and I wouldn't want it near me kidneys in a fall!!!
I may get burned at the stake for this but am I the only person who thought that last night's RM in the jungle wasn't all that good?
Nice travelogue - nice images but not really a lot of information on the practicalities of it all. Mainly the average viewer would learn that Ray likes the jungle but not much else. Even the bit where he taught the locals about making fire by the hand drill, though interesting, really wouldn't have taught anyone much about how to do the deed.
Awaiting hordes of angry bushcrafters brandishing burning torches and Woodlore knives
Overall, I have to agree with you. Little in the way of information that you could take away.
Yes, a nice, pretty program that showed the jungle and some animals and plants but little in the way of info - how many times did you see RM set up a hammock and I noticed him tie an evenk knot twice ... but did he show you how? Nope. What were the woods used for the fire drill? It's important to set your camp up right otherwise it's gonna chuck it down at 2 am ... but how?
Nonetheless, a pleasant change from the vast wasteland that TV is normally ...
I also agree. I think it was a nice program, just not bushcraft
what wood was it that burns when it's wet
'Not Bob'
My first post ever on this forum and I thought I would use it so say that I for one agree with you (maybe not so smart? :roll: )
Unlike last week's show, this week it looked like a regular nature program. More 'nice shots' than real bushcraft technique.
Ray was going to show how to use a machette by making a bench. I didn't see too much cutting technique and the end result seemed barely to hold his weight. I was waiting for a shot where more people would try and sit on it :-)
Was it a bad show then? No, it was actually a well made show with beautifull shots, but less bushcrafty than I had hoped for. Not in the same league as last weeks 'stone age' show, but then I thought that was his best programme yet.
Did anyone catch what wood they were using for the hand drill? Seemed to produce heaps of dust relatively easy! Have to give the hand drill technique a go sometime soon...
Cheers,
DUCKy
Altough enjoyable television, I agree that he could have shown us so much more. But..next week is jungle trek, so we're not out of the bush yet. :wink:
Welcome, DUCky
-Emile
He's shown these thing's in other programs so why do you need to hear it every time? (and I'm sure most of you have them on DVD :lol: )
If the 'normal' or rather average viewer watches this and see's it going on about bit's of wood and digging for rock's they'll get bored and turn over, after all the beeb need the viewer ratings so they don't want it to technical.
I think the program is about opening people eye's to the natural world and what can be done without exspensive equipment. Hopfully it'll make people think of a forest or wood as some where that has a place and also holds alot of history for us instead of just being a convinient spot of land to put a new housing estate.
What I'm trying to say is something about not preeching to the choir.
i thought it was moving that he gave them back some thing that was once the theirs
Paganwolf
17-09-2004, 13:04
hi all and welcome Ducky :wink: i tend to agree with you all but do we as bushcrafters expect that little bit more from the show as we know what we are looking for? really its a commercial show for BBC 2 viewers thats there for entertainment value and a look through the key hole of whats really out there in the big wide world,and a tasty titbit for bushcrafters. I liked last nights show as i love the jungle and big creepy crawlys :spider: i wouldn't recomend patronizing the natives with out a film crew and an entourage though :oT: ,he's giving you snippetts of mouth watering info to keep the juices flowing, hey i wonder if anyone does courses on this stuff :shock: :?: , :lol: im gonna watch it again 2nite as me and Gary was laughing an talking through most of it :rolmao: :You_Rock_
Yes I agree it wasn't a bad programme for the general viewer but I'm reviewing it from the perspective of someone interested in bushcraft (on a website devoted to bushcraft). The programme was called 'Bushcraft' and was presented by the countrys best known exponent of bushcraft; therefore I feel a little cheated by the lack of actual bushcraft in the programme, especially when RM repeatedly stated the importance of good bushcraft in that environment.
As a travelogue it was OK but then so many other presenters could have done a good travelogue. All in all, an opportunity missed.
Not Bob you make a good point there In some way the program will be responsible for encouraging people into the outdoors who don't know what they are doing and they think you can chop trees, build shelters and make fires all over the place, bringing the reputable bushcrafter into disrepute ...
which is all ready happening any how through tv or not
masongary44
17-09-2004, 16:34
"And I think I was wrong on the Knife - Frost Mora not a clipper "
It certainly looked like the one I have in my toolbox, for those occasions my other knives are too valuable!! - I suppose its not the knife, its how you use it that counts :naughty:
On the whole I enjoyed the program and can understand both sides of the argument, for and against more detailed information. I think that as students of Bushcraft, a great many of us have, or have almost :roll: perfected the art of tying a Hootchi / hammock up between two trees, and maybe even lighting fires by friction (I too was moved when he re-introduced the skill back... How satisfying and fulfilling would that be!! - Nice one Ray :super: ), But we have to consider the wider audience and the purpose behind the series.
If we are looking for a televised bushcraft course, for already competent individuals to use to hone their skills, I think we would be asking way too much.
If we are looking for a series that introduces people to the concept of bushcraft, and the wonders of the natural world... drumming up more interest in the subject and members for this forum.... (more likely) i think it does the job very well.
And it is a real relief from the likes of Emmerdale Farm, Eastenders etc...
Paganwolf
17-09-2004, 18:00
Ah Bushcraft :naughty: so what would you have liked to have been on it ? bearing in mind its a program ray has made for BBC2 for the general public and bushcrafters alike, i too would have liked a little more bushcrafty type stuff BUT if your selling a show to BBC2 its for the general public viewers and people interested in buscraft (AKA us) if the BBC 2 bosses sat with ray watching a show on pure die hard bushcrafty stuff and had no interest in bushcraft well need i go on, it makes for good TV and er doesnt someone do courses on this stuff anyway? :shock: :?:
Hmmm i liked that show i wanna know more about bushcraft i wonder where i can learn more :?: Ill put R..M... in yahoo see what comes up :?:
:Thinkingo
If they do every produce a show that's very specifically an A-Z of bushcraft in all it's infinite detail it will probably end up on channel BBC 624 at 1.30am in the morning.
But here's hoping...
until that happens however, and I'm forced to relent and go out and by a digibox type thing so I can get more than five channels, think I'll stick with Ray.
I understand the point being made but it's not like the BBC doesn't put out specialist programs. Last night felt to me like the equivalent of watching Patrick Moore look through a telescope and making some note without really getting to know what he was doing. A long time ago, before the Internet and before there were hundreds of channels, TV did try to try to educate rather than just provide eye candy or mind anasthetic.
Paganwolf
17-09-2004, 18:13
there would be some red eyed bushcrafters on friday mornin i can tell you :icon_evil :rolmao: :rolmao:
Oh yeah, it would be on late for sure, but that's what the video is for ...
Paganwolf
17-09-2004, 18:29
you would be able to sleep knowing a bushcraft show was on! :shock: id be like this :shock: all night :shock: :rolmao: :rolmao: :You_Rock_
I don't think it's necessarily a bad thing to be reminded of the 'ethos' of what bushcraft is. In this forum we are clearly a group of people who are interested in learning more about it, and as such it's easy to expect a programme with such a title, and presented by someone who has been in the field for such a long time to deliver instruction because that's what a lot of us are after.
However, in wanting to learn more, try more, be shown more we can get wrapped up the 'must have these skills' which in one way is absolutely fair enough. But I don't want to forget why I was interested in it in the first place. To bridge the gap between myself and the natural world and to know how to conduct myself/travel safely and in a respectful manner whilst in it.
So, here's to learning tons more skills, and managing to remain just a little misty eyed and romantic over the whole thing.
I'm sorry I can't help it I'M A GIRL...
:wink:
Paganwolf
17-09-2004, 18:36
:notworthy :wink:
bigjackbrass
17-09-2004, 18:44
It's probably unreasonable to expect one programme to meet everyone's needs, and it has been said several times that we are a fairly specialised bunch here. In my opinion Ray has produced something much more enticing to to the average viewer than a straight "how to," and of course it's possible that as the series progresses it will increasingly show further depth and skills, drawing the viewer in gradually. Anyway, if he covered absolutely everything then he wouldn't need to make any more programmes in coming years, and I hope that there will be more.
Not owning a telly means that I have to make a bit of an effort to catch a particular show, so I was particularly delighted to see that before "Bushcraft" there was another excellent outdoors programme with Nicholas Crane, exploring Scotland through the means of an early map. I was lucky enough to see him lecture in Brighton a few years ago and his enthusiasm translates surprisingly well to television. Catch this one if you haven't already. Not bushcraft, although there's plenty of camping and hiking, but the outdoors is a jewel of many facets and I'm glad that the BBC continues to show some of them to us.
Great Pebble
17-09-2004, 21:12
Ethos??? What's an Ethos?
Are they tasty? Easy to catch? How long do you have to cook it for? Does it make decent vindaloo?
Only joking BTW.. I know it's one of those Scandinavian knives....
Not owning a telly means that I have to make a bit of an effort to catch a particular show, so I was particularly delighted to see that before "Bushcraft" there was another excellent outdoors programme with Nicholas Crane, exploring Scotland through the means of an early map.
Hear hear. I fell into that program half way. It was a pleasant surprise. Next thursday I'll watch it completely. 2 hours of great outdoors television then :wink: .
-Emile
SquirrelBoy
17-09-2004, 21:38
Just clicking through my TV guide and it shows the 4th program will be Africa Camp.`This edition finds him in the company of true hunter gatherers,the Hadza of Tanzania...`
This all sounds very familliar to previous programs - World of Survival IIRC? Im desperatly hoping its not just going to be a rehash of whats gone before.
I was hoping for his new series to be a little more like the 5min spots on Tracks i.e the nitty gritty detail. I understand the need to show pretty pics of places for general interest but think this has been done with his earlier stuff. All my opinion of course :biggthump
Great Pebble
17-09-2004, 21:43
Hmm... I wonder if there is a market for a sligtly more "hardcore" show?
bushwacker bob
17-09-2004, 23:33
Hmm... I wonder if there is a market for a sligtly more "hardcore" show?
What :yikes: Ray Mears in a bikini?????
DOH, sorry,wrong hardcore :?:
I enjoyed Thursdays episode, ok there wasn't much 'how to' information but I don't think it is that kind of programme. I think it is something that is trying to open peoples mind to the world of bushcraft, people who haven't experienced it before which I for one think is a good idea, the more it get's recognized the more it is going to be accepted by society (i'm dubious whether that will ever happen but we can always try). There was still some things that I learned from that show and it also gave me a deeper insight into the people living in the amazon.
It was sad to see that the art of firelighting by friction had been lost but was great to see that skill being given back to them by someone who handled it very well to avoid insult.
Looking forward to the next episode. :-)
I think part of the problem for us anyway, is that aside from wanting to try and reach and manitain as wide an audience as possible, to appease the great god Tee Vee Rae-Tings, Ray probably wants to tease people, like he seems to do in his books, by showing you just enough to get you thinking 'Yeah, ok, but how EXACTLY did he do that? Oh, well may as well sign up for a course' so by just giving glimpses of bushcraft related things, he's trying to increase the revenue of the industry as a whole by giving us tantalizing glimpses of things to do and buy.
I know, I'm a cynic...:wink:
Using the Beeb as an advertizing vehicle? Surely not!
Next week Patrick Moore is going to be talking about Jupiter and Saturn ... but we arn't going to see any pictures and he's not really going to tell us anything about them because he wants us all to go out and buy books, telescopes and go on courses.
Hmmmm ....
MartiniDave
20-09-2004, 15:04
I've been thinking about this - I know, don't look so bloomin shocked! - I'm wondering if this first few episodes are kind of scene setting for the following set which may have more of a practical aspect.
I have however found the 2 programs so far to be really engrossing. A welcome respite from the usual dross inflicted upon us.
Dave
tenbears10
20-09-2004, 15:28
I think both programmes have been great. My wife was very pleased with herself on being able to guess that the second was based in Venezuela within the first 5 seconds, lucky guess if you ask me.
The book and DVD are to be released next spring now with the second round of programs (amazon had it down as Sept this year but now say 4 to 6 weeks) why don't they just sell us the DVDs and have done with it. Someone mentioned Heros of Telemark earlier and that was on ages ago. Sorry if someone already mentioned that but I haven't had time to read all 5 pages of the thread.
By the way while I was away for 2 weeks in the lakes you lot managed just over 2500 posts!!!! How am I supposed to read all of that :?:
Bill
By the way while I was away for 2 weeks in the lakes you lot managed just over 2500 posts!!!! How am I supposed to read all of that :?:
Bill
Well, surely you don't have anything more important to do than reading all our pearls of wisdom!!!:yikes: :wink:
Just skim the ones that you're interested in, you should get the jist.
tenbears10
20-09-2004, 15:47
Well, surely you don't have anything more important to do than reading all our pearls of wisdom!!!:yikes: :wink:
Yeah but work is having a bit of a hard time competing today.
Bill
The book and DVD are to be released next spring now with the second round of programs (amazon had it down as Sept this year but now say 4 to 6 weeks)
Ah, that might explain the odd shipping estimates I've got on my account against the book.
Roving Rich
21-09-2004, 13:49
hmm it does seem this series might turn into another RM world tour....
But maybe the one in the spring is Just UK ! I do hope so.
Fingers crossed
Rich :roll:
A fine episode :biggthump
God I hope they don't know who Becks is!
:shock:
Hahahaaa, I was there where Ray walked!
I went to Venzuela last year to climb the Tabletop mountain and saw Angel falls. The scenery around there is absolutely stunning. On the teppui you feel like your are on the moon. We camped on top for a night and I bathed in one of the natural (icecold) baths. Brought tears to my eyes to see it all again. Brought it all back......
Lennart
Very good indeed, and i managed to watch it (thanks Squidders).
Wow Ducky, that's really amazing!
Enjoyed the episode, happy to just sink into the general atmosphere of it all. Bit annoyed he stated...there's only three knots you need...yes...and they would be...
However, if I've learnt something that I didn't know before, I can't complain, and I have, so I'm not.
:o):
MartiniDave
23-09-2004, 21:23
Enchanting program!
Bit more bushcraft knowhow this time too. :super:
Wouldn't that forest be just the place to re-locate the entire cast of Emmerdale, Corrie and 'Stenders - minus the crew of course! :naughty:
Dave
I thought it was a well paced informative episode that showed us skills that we can use here as well as in the jungle. The stories were good and the filming was good, although I’m no expert on that!
I have to say that I like the way Ray seems to have settled into this series, he seems really happy to be there, enjoying himself and even though we’re just getting glimpses of the skills they’re enough to picture things and fill in a few pieces…
Even though I’m still a bit disappointed that the whole series isn’t based on bushcraft skills closer to home I’m settling into this new series and I think rather good, keep it up Mr R
I agree, it's wonderful to see someone so at ease and unafraid in an environment so often branded as hostile and dangerous and one to be avoided at all costs.
Seeing Ray washing in the rivers, eating from the flora, really 'being' in the jungle, not just journeying through it if you get my meaning is a great thing to watch.
It just shows how fear of one's environment can be addressed with knowledge. My friend looked at me with deep concern and not a little horror the other day when I offered her some blackberries I'd just picked and told her I was drinking nettle tea! 'But you don't know what's been on it' she exclaimed, :yikes: obviously thinking I might drop down dead after consuming my pickings!
I think she should be watching this series, may do her some good! Being wary and respecting your environment is one thing, but to fear it can only lead to increased separation from it.
Ray's good at counteracting that with ease.
:biggthump
Interested to see that Ray was using a Sabre 45 and not the normal pack that he has.
Another good episode - I was straining my eyes to see the knots - I know Ray taught me the Siberien knot years ago so I must see if I can remember it!! - And wow - the Angel Falls - I'd love to go there - all I need is no mortgage, no kids at UNI, no expensive hobbies and a better paid job and I'd take the wife there tomorrow!! :-)
Graham
Sorry all, one other thing - did anyone recognise the tin that Ray had his sharpening stone in - is it ex millitary and can I get one from Army surplus??
G
Fantastic, Inspirational, exciting and completely mindblowing.
Right: survival,bushcraft,exped (albeit not jungle) ,ml, type person requires a non 2.5k gbp costing jungle trip run by uk outfit/indigenous/native people, were do I go?
Please give me a tel no or website.
Chris :super:
Film footage is good and honest, you got to see the film crew and the helicopter that dropped him off at the top of the bluff he was supposed to have climb, but I am afraid I find the narrative flat and boring. The monotone speak over is plain annoying.
Usually I am not moved to speak on the threads as I lack experience in matters pertaining to skills but come on guys these programmes lack focus as we say back home they suck. Some said one of his books were all about him, well I feel this series is too. It is not pertinant to bushcraft it is simply a long boring advertising board to sell a product and in this case that is the presenter.
Also I see the kit hang up you brits have has raised its head again. That plastic box look like the decontamination pack from US and Canadian forces Nuclear, biological and chemical warefare kits.
Last complaint before I lapse into silence once more. Having watched the DVD's I find all the programmes very repeatius, he seems to do the same thing over and over. I was lead to believe by this forum his skill base was large however in all his three series on DVD and now the one on TV all I see are the same skills different back drop.
OK do you guys still lynch people over here? Well its back to the office I guess.
I must admit that after the first programe in this series (the stone age one) which i thoughly enjoyed the following programmes have been disapointing
and after the first programme it seems to have become a programme about ray and the places he likes to visit
i hope the next programme is better
A(nother) great episode!
I can kind of understand some folks' concerns with the "about Ray" feel. However, is that such a bad thing given that he's got so much to share with those who are keen to learn? Anyway - it's his show!
As per Kim's entry, above : if you've leanrt something you didn't know before - then you shouldn't complain. Quite agree!
Paganwolf
24-09-2004, 12:54
if theres any other bushcraft shows on the box i suggest watching them because they are bound to be intensive bushcraft from start to finish everything you've ever wanted to know and more! Oh hold on :roll: no there isn't any others is there :?: i've watched 3 tv programmes in 3 weeks and they just happen to be RM's entertaining and bushcrafty prog's, beggars cant be choosers you know :shock: :rolmao: :nana:
Great Pebble
24-09-2004, 13:07
I only watched the first one, missed the other two as Thursday is a drinking night.
Paganwolf
24-09-2004, 13:08
hey a fellow guttercrafter!! :rolmao: :You_Rock_
Beggars may not be able to be choosers but TV licence payers can. More than that TV viewers can; they can turn off, watch something else, write into the BBC or whatever.
If being the only thing of its type on offer makes something good then I presume the Trabant was a good car in the old Soviet Bloc countries.
Just because something is the only thing of its type on offer only makes it the best of what's on offer (ie first in a field of one). That 'Bushcraft' is all that's on TV at the moment about the 'craft' doesn't make it any good. It may be a good programme or it may not but that's a matter of opinion not in any way related to its uniqueness at the moment.
Very good point Notbob - and JP you talked all the way through episode two and you were sober! :nana:
TheViking
24-09-2004, 13:20
Thursday is a drinking night.
Surely you mean Friday and Saturday! :wink: :o):
Paganwolf
24-09-2004, 13:21
oh yeah :rolmao: :rolmao: we watched the good bits though diddnt we :?:
maybe ray wants to be judy charmers or a holiday rep
Anyone else notice the clip in the episode form one of his previous series? :yikes:
Paganwolf
24-09-2004, 13:24
Yes but it had a Posted title telling you that it was from a previous program.if its the bit im thinking about. :?: view of the village?
Kit hounds - the plastic box thing Ray had with his whatever it was in it can be found in the Silvermans catalogue and I think Strikeforce or some one sells em too!
I can almost see the search engines wrrrring into life! :rolmao: :?: :rolmao:
Best bits JP - :cry:
MartiniDave
24-09-2004, 13:40
Don't know what you mean Gary!
Oh - you did say Silvermans didn't you? :rolmao:
Dave
Metala Cabinet
24-09-2004, 14:27
What was the name of the book about the ill-fated scientific expedition? It sounded interesting and I need something to read next Thursday as I find myself with an unexpected 1 hour long window in my diary.
By the way, why didn't the professor bloke who got called 'a little child' by the locals because he couldn't make a tin of sardines ask them who made their machetes/parangs? I can't be more definite as to details as I'd begun to lose interest by this stage in the programme (possibly quite early on).
Fast forwarded through a lot of that guy's ramble - especially when he went on about being like God. Talk about delusions of grandeur.
If Ray actually produced an informative and practical program, then who'd sign up for his Bushcraft courses?
Knowledge may weigh nothing, but who said it was free?
As far as I'm concerned, the series has gone from interesting to ho hum remarkably quickly.
(...) and JP you talked all the way through episode two (...) :nana:
JP always does :wink: :nana: :rolmao:
not good IMO. And you guys are going on about kit again
I also thought it a bit odd that the locaks were so down on that guy because he couldn't make a tin or cooking pot.
What so of stones would you find in a jungle that could be used for cutting tools?
Metala Cabinet
24-09-2004, 18:02
I wasn't just being sarky, I am genuinely interested in knowing the title of that book RM mentioned.
Who says the new RM series doesn't contain useful information?
TheViking
24-09-2004, 18:15
Well he's publishing two new books.
Bushcraft Survival (http://www.amazon.co.uk/exec/obidos/ASIN/0340834803/qid=1096046005/sr=2-1/ref=sr_2_11_1/202-9396368-6081413) and Bushcraft (http://www.amazon.co.uk/exec/obidos/ASIN/0340825162/qid=1096046005/sr=1-3/ref=sr_1_11_3/202-9396368-6081413).
tenbears10
24-09-2004, 18:41
Well he's publishing two new books.
Bushcraft Survival (http://www.amazon.co.uk/exec/obidos/ASIN/0340834803/qid=1096046005/sr=2-1/ref=sr_2_11_1/202-9396368-6081413) and Bushcraft (http://www.amazon.co.uk/exec/obidos/ASIN/0340825162/qid=1096046005/sr=1-3/ref=sr_1_11_3/202-9396368-6081413).
Andy, I think the second book is just the current Bushcraft with a different cover. I might be wrong and prepare to stand corrected.
Bill
TheViking
24-09-2004, 19:11
Andy, I think the second book is just the current Bushcraft with a different cover. I might be wrong and prepare to stand corrected.
Bill
Perhaps you're right. :wink: But if so, I think it's confusing. They gotta stop publishing new books all the time, cause he has already covered all basics and advanced's on the subject. :shock:
that may be the case. I dont really think so but there are books around which will cover the areas others fall short in. But thats not the point, the point is they can make money. If they want to reprint the same book and only make very small changes why not put a different cover on it?
ditchfield
25-09-2004, 13:50
not good IMO. And you guys are going on about kit again
I also thought it a bit odd that the locaks were so down on that guy because he couldn't make a tin or cooking pot.
What so of stones would you find in a jungle that could be used for cutting tools?
I think you are missing the point. I think that Gary was taking the mick when he brought up kit (God forbid).
And regarding you comments on tins and cooking pots, I think that the locals just intended to emphazise to him, how things we rely on in the 'civilised' world cannot be improvised simply like the tools natives use.
Sorry, not the best constructed sentences.
Roving Rich
27-09-2004, 13:41
Right, well ithought the first one was great, but then it just went Ray Mears sunshine coach Tours.
That said - I have perfected 2 of the 3 knots Ray used and failed to explain.
And used em pitching my basha on Saturday
I watched the kids in the canoe doing a "Pry on the move" stroke and played with this out paddling on Sunday....
So for all its faults, Rays new series has "shown us the doors" its upto us to walk through them and explore :nana:
Rich
Joking about kit me? :?:
:rolmao: :rolmao:
Back to basic boys, back to basics! :nana:
So for all its faults, Rays new series has "shown us the doors" its upto us to walk through them and explore :nana: Rich
Sadly, Rich, I dont think it did much for opening the doors for people who arent versed, to whatever degree, in bushcraft. To open the doors for them, they need to realise that they are able to experience this in our own backyard with some fine schools, or with friends etc. Going to the Amazon and showing what he has shown is, as you say, a coach tour for those sat at home which is fine, but these programs are ten a penny whereas an educational program would have been more exciting for both us and the general public.
I know that he is looking for the 'wider market' but I think that its such a shame that an ideal opportunity to teach people wbout our very rich and long heritage is being squandered......in the first episode the stuff on flint knapping or bow making etc could have taken up an hour long show in their own right.
Is this really education?
Ray once told me that any book on bushcraft (no matter how crap) has its good points and its bad points and that as such it was up to the reader to decide which were which. Wise words I thought then and still think now (saved me chucking many a manual too).
Now taking that point a stage further many people will read a book, internet website or watch a tv programme and take all they see as gospel while others will inwardly digest the information and take from it only that which is of use to them.
And this is the trick (Try it next time you watch a BUSHCRAFT programme) whether your watch Ray Mears or Mors Kochanski dont watch what they are doing watch how they do it - more importantly watch out for what they have already done. For example in the Kochanski videos prior to filming he has insulated the ground below him by laying spruce boughs on the snow that is as important as how to make the snow sheo he is teaching you. And the same with Mears for there is alway info to be gleaned by those with a clever ey and a questing mind.
Of course on the flip side dont also be the mug who easily swallows all he sees and hears - ASK WHY? MORE IMPORTANTLY ASK CAN I USE THIS INFORMATION AND ADAPT IT TO MY ENVIROMENT?
Lastly, as I dont wanna be accused of boring you all too, dont fall into the kit trap, just like with the skills ask yourself is that item is going to work in my enviroment - if in doubt save your money and spend it on doing Bushcraft because you can never buy it!
...in the first episode the stuff on flint knapping or bow making etc could have taken up an hour long show in their own right.
that would - I suspect - have been very, very boring television for the majority of people who might have tuned in to such a programme.
Let's face it folks: the vast majority of people who might tune in to such a programme are not at all interested in what we do. Not one jot. They would think to themselves "wierdos" or "Survival freaks" whilst nodding their heads and smiling as we described to them our activities.
If the programme can change even a tiny proportion of viewers minds about this then surely it could be counted as a success for us? There's no doubt that there's bushcraft in those programmes, and it's obvious that Ray is enthusiastic about the subject - hopefully some of that enthusiasm might be contageous through the TV.
OK. Maybe it's not what we want, but we're a tiny, tiny minority. And if we want to be heard with our view about how bushcraft should be presented on television, then maybe we should shout louder.