View Full Version : Ray Mears Woodsman Shirt
Barn Owl
07-04-2008, 21:59
A wee word on the above.
I've had one for the past couple of weeks and after reading the comments about it previously held off until I had some spare cash for one.
Let me assure you this is a quality garment.
It is a dense weave cotton and pretty windproof.
I wear a 'T' or norgie type top below it and it's breathability is good too.
The stitching is perfect and it feels tough.
It's not been near any sparks or caught in the rain but i think it'll withstand a wee bit of both ok.
I would say it's 10 x better than my Craghopper shirts and 5 x better than my 5.11.
It's made in Britain and has a small Union Flag on the hem.
It's long, so no riding out of your trousers and can be worn out of them nicely.
I'm usually a large but got a medium as I didn't want it as an 'over',however I will get another in large to accommodate a warmer undershirt in Autumn/Winter.
Worth £95... I think as it's British and top quality then yes,I will be buying another.
In my opinion it's a better shirt than a Swannie and they're not cheap.
I reckon it'll last for years,that's where the vfm comes in for sure.
Perhaps someone has a more in depth review to come ?
Sorry i've no pic's and it's a wee summary,but hope it helps.
No connections to Ray or makers.
Tom.
nicodiemus
07-04-2008, 23:48
I just can't imagine paying £95 for a shirt. I baulk at spending 30 quid on a shirt. Are they really worth the scratch?
£95 is going it a bit Ray!
If I'm not mistaken it is a ringer for the 'Malpai' shirt made by Orvis?
Except it comes in at £36 extra....
Barn Owl
08-04-2008, 12:22
£95 is going it a bit Ray!
If I'm not mistaken it is a ringer for the 'Malpai' shirt made by Orvis?
Except it comes in at £36 extra....
Don't know about the Orvis,but hey I like it and I fund these sort of expensive purchases by selling stuff,so I'm not really out of pocket.
sandbender
08-04-2008, 13:28
Ah Tom, you've gone and opened your self up for some stick with this one :)
When this shirt was first announced folks on this forum were fairly critical of the price point Woodlore had chosen, I think the reasoning behind much of that criticism is that people feel that too much attention is being given over to kit, especially expensive kit that can be tied to well known bushcraft personalities.
Bushcraft for many of us is not about having 'the knife' or 'the trousers' that some bloke on TV uses, but about the knowledge in our heads and skills in our hands.
We're not insular, we want others to enjoy this hobby too, and there is a feeling that if bushcraft starts to become about 'getting the right gear together' and not actually being out there and trying to make do with what comes to hand or what you can afford, then the hobby of bushcraft becomes something else, something less good.
With that said, I think many of us are too quick to criticize what we consider to be expensive gear, if we all wore ex army fatigues and used mora training knifes then I think the forum would be the less for it. If Tony ever released the figures I bet that hits on the 'Kit' and 'edged tools' section of this forum would be double the number of hits on the 'flora and fauna' or 'bushcraft skills' section, most of us enjoy reading about new and interesting doo dads even if we never intend to buy them.
:)
Oh and incidentally, I own two of these shirts :)
Let me assure you this is a quality garment...
It is very well made, although the top press stud on one shirt fell off as soon as I put it on.
It is a dense weave cotton and pretty windproof...
Very heavy duty cotton, good feel to it.
I would say it's 10 x better than my Craghopper shirts and 5 x better than my 5.11..
I can't compare it to a Craghopper, but it is far superior to the 5.11 shirts, both in quality of materials and construction.
It's long, so no riding out of your trousers and can be worn out of them nicely...
It has a really nice cut, it is long and I can wear it with a kilt and not worry about 'chaffing' :)
Worth £95...In my opinion it's a better shirt than a Swannie...
I don't think they compare, the Swannies are made of wool, much better for the northern European climate, but this looks smarter :)
I reckon it'll last for years
At this price it had better :)
if we all wore ex army fatigues and used mora training knifes then I think the forum would be the less for it.
I don't, IMO more emphasis would be placed on discussions about actually acquiring knowledge to do something and then people actually getting away from their PC screens and comfy chairs to the Woods/Moor/Sea Shore and placing that knowledge into practice.
I don't subscribe to the philosophy of "all the gear & no idea", but do subscribe to the philosophies of "know more, carry less" & "knowledge weighs nothing"
Barn Owl
08-04-2008, 18:32
Ach,I just felt it was time for someone to admit to having one:D
And it is a good shirt.
Tom, thanks for taking the time to write about the shirt and give us your impression about it, it sounds like a hardy piece of kit.
Good little review in the appropriate forum ;)
fred gordon
08-04-2008, 19:46
Ach,I just felt it was time for someone to admit to having one:D
And it is a good shirt.
Good for you! We may not all agree with each other but its great to see honesty. Perhaps others will now own up.:D By the way I don't have one but most of the stuff I have bought from the RM website has been first rate quality and the speed of delivery to my remoter part of Scotrland has yet to be bettered.:)
bigjackbrass
08-04-2008, 21:18
£95 is going it a bit Ray!
If I'm not mistaken it is a ringer for the 'Malpai' shirt made by Orvis?
Except it comes in at £36 extra....
Can't comment on the Woodlore shirt purely because I don't own one, but I do have a couple of the Orvis Malpai shirts and can give you an idea of their suitability for bushcrafting:
The cuffs have two buttons, but not to allow any adjustment of how tightly the cuff can fasten. The only option is "quite tight" and you'll have trouble rolling the sleeves up very far.
The more recent of my two shirts is not made in the USA and seems to be a softer canvas, perhaps the result of garment washing. Still a hard-wearing shirt, but increasingly something for the high street instead of the ranch. The first shirt I bought had to be returned because the breast pockets were sewn on at different heights, so quality may not be all it should be. Roomy fit and decent pockets, although a bellows design would be more practical.
The Malpais are very nice for what they are (nicer still if you keep checking the Sale section of the Orvis site ;) ) but I'd be surprised if they measured up against the Woodlore shirt as a working garment, perhaps justifying the extra money. Thanks for the review, Barn Owl.
Hey Owl!
Sorry if it came off like I was having a dig - I seem to have more boots and jackets than you can shake a stick at, and there have been times when I've practically handed my wages over to Tamarack!
It just struck me as being a bit over the odds price wise, and as on the Ray Mears site there is a load of blurb thrown in about Ray 'designing his own exclusive range of clothing' and also about the 'unique bespoke garment' which he has has developed to his own precise specifications etc, and I just thought it strongly resembled the Orvis shirt.
Barn Owl
09-04-2008, 00:13
Hey Owl!
Sorry if it came off like I was having a dig - I seem to have more boots and jackets than you can shake a stick at, and there have been times when I've practically handed my wages over to Tamarack!
It just struck me as being a bit over the odds price wise, and as on the Ray Mears site there is a load of blurb thrown in about Ray 'designing his own exclusive range of clothing' and also about the 'unique bespoke garment' which he has has developed to his own precise specifications etc, and I just thought it strongly resembled the Orvis shirt.
No worries Jimmy...that's what the forums for,everyones thoughts and opinions.
Cheers,
Tom.
I've recently parted with a fair bit of dosh for a Bison shirt and it suits it's purpose very well.
As such I do not consider it to be expensive even though my bank manager might disagree.
I think the important consideration is value.
If something does a job well and lasts a long time then it is good value.
If something is the same in all respects as something that costs a lot less then it is poor value.
As the first of these measurements is highly subjective then there will be room for debate on that topic,
The second measure has yet to be proved by someone with both shirts. :cool:
I think we're sort of forgetting the 'value' aspect here. I'll give you an example:
I have a Polar heart-rate monitor that I bought 5 years ago. It cost me 230 quid and lots of people said I was mad. It is able to collect data from bike sensors as well as altitude, temp, heart rate, etc. It can run interval training, it's waterproof, downloads to a computer so I can analyse my training and keep a long-term record - and it works really well.; however, I did not make the decision lightly as 230 quid is a lot of initial investment money.
Recently, after 5 years use, I damaged the case and it is now no longer waterproof, nor is it economical to repair. I'll need to get a new one and I just balked again at the price for a similar standard system. However, I did a cost-benefit analysis on the old one:
Cost: 230 quid
Use: I reckon 5 days a week, 48 weeks a year, over 5 years: that's 5 x 48 x 5 = 1200 times used.
That's a cost to me of 0.2 pence per use - each use usually 45 to 60 mins on average. so, making a conservative estimate, that's 0.0067 pence/minute. I'd say that's good value and it doesn't even start to include the benefits to my fitness and the pleasure I've had using it.
So, what's the point of the rambling rubbish I've just written? :confused:
If the guy who's just bought a Ray Mears shirt at 95 quid has that shirt for a number of years and uses it regularly, it actually turns out to be a good investment. You can trade this against buying cheaper, less durable items which you have to go through the inconvenience of having to replace more often. Again, it doesn't count the pleasure of being outside - can you quantify that?
It's up to the individual to decide whether the quality and durability of the garment is worth the cost (if the garment was rubbish, of course it wouldn't be worth 95 quid!).
The bottom line is it's not worth paying a lot of money for something you rarely use but it is worth paying a bit extra for that bit of gear which is regularly worn/used in pursuit of a pleasurable hobby.
The only flaw to the above argument is that you could effectively use it to persuade yourself to buy anything.
Damn...:twak:
Jedadiah
09-04-2008, 14:58
I just like to take a moment and congratulate everyone who has contributed to this thread. From Barn Owl for his initial review through all the other contributers. After the first thread i read concerning this shirt a while back, i thought 'here we go again', but no, you have all used this forum for what it is supposed to be used for and that is experience and opinion, not mudslinging and digging at contemporary consumer culture and the mighty 'Woodlore Lucre'.
If i could afford one, i'd have one, but that is my problem and no-one elses, especially not Woodlores!
I'd rep you all if i could. It's refreshing to see this positive attitude, keep it up guy's. :You_Rock_
I agree often these threads to degenerate into everyone slagging each other, RM and Woodlore off in no particular order - not this one though. Nice one.
I really wonder if you get 95 quids worth of wear out this shirt. It's not organic fair trade cotton so there's isn't any added conscience value.
If I buy say a Craghoppers cotton shirt for 15 quid in T K Maxx or a similar canvas shirt I look fine in them, they button all the way down so can be used as a light jacket in hot weather and they wear well. I've had Levi denim shirts for years and wear them until they fall off my back. (I know they are mostly made in China and the cotton is probably GM.)
Arguably the Ray Mears shirt is a fine shirt and I would probably enjoy wearing one but at that price I'd be more worried about damaging it than a cheaper one. Nothing wrong with the shirt IMO (except that I'd prefer it to button all the way) just the price. If I could afford one I'm still not sure it ticks all the right boxes for me.
Hope I haven't degenerated the thread. :cool: I do sometimes buy expensive kit because I see the value in it, like the expensive Garmin GPS I recently bought. Some people can't see the point in spending as much as I did and are happy without one or with the cheapest model. Whatever your opinion of GPS though it is quite easy to analyse what you are paying for in extra features. You just have to decide if you want those features and are willing to pay for them.
Similarly with knives. You can buy a cheap Mora and it does the job. Others pay more for a better knife and generally it's easy to see what it is that's better but then the knife reaches a certain peak of quality and it becomes much harder to figure out what extra features it has that make it cost so much money (I won't mention any brands :rolleyes: ).
With outdoor cotton canvas shirts after they reach about the 40 quid mark (about the cost of a 5.11) I start to wonder what extras I'm paying for.
This isn't a slagging of, it's constructive criticism I hope. ;)
Barn Owl
09-04-2008, 19:42
As I said in my first post, I bought the shirt after selling some gear,therefore it wasn't really hard on the finances.
I couldn't justify (i.e ,get it by Mrs) before that.:nono:
I like the style as I also wear pullover type smocks.
As for damaging it,well it's the battlescars on your gear that gives it character and provides memories:burnout:
I know it is expensive but I think it will provide good vfm.
I mean it's much the same price as woollen shirts (and I do own one) and they seem to be accepted without denegration.
Cheers,
Tom.
featherstick
23-05-2008, 23:06
Interesting thread. By and large I agree that you break it down into pence per use - the fewer the pence the better the value. However I had a look at the RM shop site and it's easy to see who they are aiming this shirt at. The shirt is "stunning", "classically styled", and has "many stylish features". I shall be off to the army surplus tomorrow, where I'll get a stunning, stylishly featured Bundeswehr shirt for 6.99!
firecrest
25-05-2008, 17:09
Though I wouldnt pay £95 on a shirt, I do think in some ways we have lost touch with clothes pricing owing to the cheap exploitative labour we use to manufacture highstreet goods. If you pay less than £5 for a shirt (eg primark) then somebody somewhere is being shafted, and it isnt the retailer. I commend woodlore for using british industry, but for 95 quid Id expect a shirt to be made at a tailors for me!
I think we're sort of forgetting the 'value' aspect here. I'll give you an example:
I have a Polar heart-rate monitor that I bought 5 years ago. It cost me 230 quid and lots of people said I was mad. It is able to collect data from bike sensors as well as altitude, temp, heart rate, etc. It can run interval training, it's waterproof, downloads to a computer so I can analyse my training and keep a long-term record - and it works really well.; however, I did not make the decision lightly as 230 quid is a lot of initial investment money.
Recently, after 5 years use, I damaged the case and it is now no longer waterproof, nor is it economical to repair. I'll need to get a new one and I just balked again at the price for a similar standard system. However, I did a cost-benefit analysis on the old one:
Cost: 230 quid
Use: I reckon 5 days a week, 48 weeks a year, over 5 years: that's 5 x 48 x 5 = 1200 times used.
That's a cost to me of 0.2 pence per use - each use usually 45 to 60 mins on average. so, making a conservative estimate, that's 0.0067 pence/minute. I'd say that's good value and it doesn't even start to include the benefits to my fitness and the pleasure I've had using it.
So, what's the point of the rambling rubbish I've just written? :confused:
If the guy who's just bought a Ray Mears shirt at 95 quid has that shirt for a number of years and uses it regularly, it actually turns out to be a good investment. You can trade this against buying cheaper, less durable items which you have to go through the inconvenience of having to replace more often. Again, it doesn't count the pleasure of being outside - can you quantify that?
It's up to the individual to decide whether the quality and durability of the garment is worth the cost (if the garment was rubbish, of course it wouldn't be worth 95 quid!).
The bottom line is it's not worth paying a lot of money for something you rarely use but it is worth paying a bit extra for that bit of gear which is regularly worn/used in pursuit of a pleasurable hobby.
The only flaw to the above argument is that you could effectively use it to persuade yourself to buy anything.
Damn...:twak:
The only flaw in your statement is your maths is wrong. It's actually about 19p per use.
I wouldn't pay 90 quid for a shirt, but I would pay 140 for a paramo waterproof or some other good things. But we don't need all expensive kit, but if you want to fair enough, but the price of your kit does not make you a better bushcrafter.
I've found in the last year or so that some of my cheapest clothing is the best for outdoor use. A high price tag does not make an item of kit the best. Hobo stoves don't cost much, yet they are very good bits of kit.
sandbender
26-05-2008, 08:26
I am reminded of a conversation between Eric Newby and Sir Wilfred Thesiger on the woeful state of British tailoring...
""England's going to pot," said Thesiger, as Hugh and I lay smoking the interpreter's king-size cigarettes, the first for a fortnight. "Look at this shirt, I've only had it three years, now it's splitting. Same with tailors; Gull and Croke made me a pair of whipcord trousers to go to the Atlas Mountains. Sixteen guineas - wore a hole in them in a fortnight.""
:)
http://www.guardian.co.uk/travel/2003/aug/27/travelbooks
John Fenna
26-05-2008, 10:07
If this is what Ray was wearing in the first episode of "Walkabout" then it looks a fine shirt - but for my taste not a deep enough opening for ventilation and the pockets set too high to give rucksack strap clearance (as far as I can make out) - looks well made though!
Glosfisher
08-07-2008, 21:37
This shirt looks remarkably like the smock worn by all Danish Scouts in the Det Danske Spejderkorps (Danish scouting is very confusing with an umbrella organisation overseeing a number of scouting organisations often run by churches such as the baptists.
The smock is blue and is common to all ages of Scouts and their leaders
A far more practical garment than the pathetic "Oxford" type shirt we have to wear over here
JonathanD
08-07-2008, 22:39
I've been watching this shirt for ages, wondering who would buy it, even after I read a positive review someone posted a year back. I've been using Craghoppers and last year left them in a wet pile in the conservatory after a trip. To cut a long story short they needed replacing so I went off to Blacks. I love Craghoppers, but the silly twits have gone and put Grylls name all over them. I left them on the shelf. After buying a new belt from Woodlore, I checked out the shirt again, thought 'sod it' hit the buy button, and now I have one.
Expensive, oh yes, impulse buy, most definately, still got a 'name on it, yes, but at least Ray is respected. And am I happy? Too bloody right. I wish I'd bought this months ago, it's built to last all types of hard work, sweat, dirt, abrasive log lugging, etc, etc. Very well made. I'm even going to buy another. I very highly recommend it.
Barn Owl
08-07-2008, 22:55
I've been watching this shirt for ages, wondering who would buy it, even after I read a positive review someone posted a year back. I've been using Craghoppers and last year left them in a wet pile in the conservatory after a trip. To cut a long story short they needed replacing so I went off to Blacks. I love Craghoppers, but the silly twits have gone and put Grylls name all over them. I left them on the shelf. After buying a new belt from Woodlore, I checked out the shirt again, thought 'sod it' hit the buy button, and now I have one.
Expensive, oh yes, impulse buy, most definately, still got a 'name on it, yes, but at least Ray is respected. And am I happy? Too bloody right. I wish I'd bought this months ago, it's built to last all types of hard work, sweat, dirt, abrasive log lugging, etc, etc. Very well made. I'm even going to buy another. I very highly recommend it.
I've got two now as well.
Like the wee bits in the pockets that I can clip my wee space pen and tick remover onto.
Tom.
Way out of my price range I'm afraid much as I like it .........unless I have a lottery win I'm afraid I shall be walking down the catwalk in this years Primark olive green cotton tee-shirt at £2.50 under my HM forces wooly pully £4.75 army surplus, on top of which I'll wear either my £9.99 fisherman's smock from Fishing Megastore, or my £25 dpm Parka with quilted removable liner....also from army surplus. It's all I can afford but does the job admirably......aye an there's the rub. I believe in buying the best I can afford.....can't afford much so I buy within my pocket allotment..(must speak to er indoors see about a raise)
I do tend to save up and spend a little more for the vitals as I see them which is a decent hammock £22.00 DD and a couple of 3m x 3m dpm tarps from a builders merchant both together under a tenner, I have a number of sharps of various types collected over the years none of which cost me more than £16 for the dearest, and I use a woolworth special £7.99 sleeping bag coupled with a £4.99 fleece liner which when used together form a very comfortable and warm sleeping system which would rival many bags in my honest but humble opinion. Yes I'm a cheapskate but only because I can't afford the great stuff however my kit is perfectly adequate and does the job. I have however had a small windfall and had to think what would be my one item to spend it on.........my decision is a handmade custom knife from a chap in the New Forest £85.00. I wouldn't knock anybody for what kit they have or don't have to me it's a personal choice to suit a personal budget. Isn't that the reason we all do the lottery to be financially secure and afford the things we want rather than just buy the things we can afford
mortalmerlin
08-08-2008, 18:57
Thanks for the review I think I will also be getting one.
If you balk at the price remember the wealth of the UK depends on M*V (Money * Velocity of transaction). That money kept in our economy is worth a lot more than 95 pounds, sent to China it's gone for good.
Nobody should pick on someone else for their kit. Yeah, we all had a bit of a laff at the string (well, some of us did!), but seriously, if you're getting out and doing it then what is the drama? I slept in blankets at the Moot, cadged from the removals blokes who moved my family back to UK. Does that make me any less of a person? Certainly not. If your kit works for you, then no worries. We'd all love the best kit, but sometimes we have to compromise. I have a lot of branded kit, bought because reviews told me it was the best at the time.
I got rid of some kit at the Moots' bring and buy sale, mainly due to having so much kit! None of it was crap though, I hope it performs as well for other people as it did for me. The Swedish Snow smocks, for instance, were bought for others but I deleted PMs and forgot who they were. They didn't get back to me so they had to go. I kept one for myself though, they are great smocks and coupled with a heavy duty woolen jumper from a surplus store and a norwegian army shirt, you'll stay warm and relatively dry in a shower or prolonged drizzle. The cotton canvas wets out, but it doesn't come through, it works similarly but not quite as well as ventile. I hope those that bought them will get good use from them and enjoy their use. 8 quid a smock is a pretty decent price I'd say!
I'm new to Bc UK. Several Scout Leaders on another Forum mentioned here as a good source of related knowledge, skills, ideas etc , so I had a look and joined up.
As to kit and cost. Earlier this year we had a camp for older Cubs along with the Scouts. Two "Bushcraft" experts agreed to come along and do some instruction / demos. They turned up with a few hundred £s worth of "kit" hanging off belts and bergens and even more inside ! (OK I admit to more than a little of the greeneyed monster at some of it !) My first thought was "Tarts !"
However they turned out to be brilliant teachers ( To me that's to share and pass on knowledge and skills, not just show it ) They also made the point several times that expensive kit did not make a person any more capable, simply that for some people (like themselves) the apprecition of a paticular item added to the pleasure of the activity. I fully understand this, as a Butcher I buy my own knives for work rather than use the basic but workable ones provided.
And this leads to one of the reasons I've joined here. I do enjoy bits of kit, but have limeted finance, so what I get has to do the job and be V.F.M. for me. Thats where I'm sure your assembled greater knowledge and experience can help me get better value, not waste money , and have lots more pleasure !
The above shirt is way beyond me, but some other things mentioned I will be looking out for. Priority for now is trying to find myself a basha/tarp and a hammock ... then I'd like....and maybe one of.... ?..
Hope I havn't gone too far off topic
BorderReiver
08-08-2008, 21:39
Expense doesn't always equal value but if the manufacturer/retailer has a good reputation then it's a fair bet that you get your moneys worth.
I paid what I considered to be a lot of money for Rohan shirts about 20 years ago and I'm still wearing them now. They are worn regularly and I'm not that careful with my clothes.
Although the RM shirt does seem a tad over priced, if it lasts a good length of time and is a pleasure to wear, then possibly it could work out to be a bargain.;)
ArkAngel
09-08-2008, 14:50
I would have to agree with most of the points on here so far.
Better gear doesn't make you a better bushcrafter, but if you have the money and you want to spend the money go for your life.
Just some of my outdoor kit. I'm not after critiques of my kit just attempting to back up my point.
Altberg boots- over £150 5 years ago and still look like new.
Berghaus Mera peak- £160 bought 15 years ago cheap as part of (previous years style, should of been £300) still waterproof but unable to clean properly and it's starting to fuzz badly.
Le Chameau leather lined wellies - £200 in a sale
Shing Knife- £100, i consider it a bargin for the type of knife it is!
5.11 shirts - £35 a pop and i have 4
I have a lot of expensive kit. I spend a lot of time outdoors (shooting, photography, walking, bushcrafting etc)
My wife and i have no kids and a fair disposable income, so out attitude is "why not?"
The kit doesn't make me a better bushcrafter, it's a personal choice.
I've been following this thread with interest, and i intend to try and get a canvas shirt made up, so watch this space.
I've been following this thread with interest, and i intend to try and get a canvas shirt made up, so watch this space.
Why do you need a canvas shirt?
:dunno: I made a single layer smock out of ventile (believe me if I can make one so can you!)
I made it to fit me well, including the hood.
Put a big dump pocket for my binos/map on the front.
Put two buttons in the right palace to stop the binos from swinging.
Made it long enough to cover my back when bending over.
Made the sleeves with tight Velcro closure and loose enough to enable the sleeves to be rolled up properly.
It is bomb proof, ‘literally’, you can’t break it! I’ve tried.
I ware it as a shirt in hot weather and a shell in cold. (I wear it constantly when outdoors)
It breathes and never feels clammy even if sweating heavily ‘cus it’s stiffer than ordinary cotton.
It cleans really easily in the field ( and country to popular belief, dries remarkably quickly)
It is 110% mosi/wasp/nettle/thorn/wind proof
It’s more than shower proof, even in quite persistent rain.
You can spray DEET directly onto it and not your skin.
It has a SF+100 rating (not a substantiate claim, but you get the Idea)
Though it’s not going to win any fashion awards it is as close to the only perfect possession I own. When you take the materials and your time into account it won’t be any cheaper than the ‘Ray’ shirt, but you made it, it fits like a glove and you grin like an idiot every time you don it.
In a word owning it is a pleasure................
I took the Blanket coat workshop at the Moot; I doubt I will ever ‘buy’ another outdoor garment. I strongly recommend making your own shirt; it will change your whole perspective on life.
Thank you Toddy, I have seen the light!:notworthy
Kit can be bought cheaper than this shirt. Dockers woolen shirts, Pendletons shirts (again, woolen!), surplus KF Shirts (Guess what they're made from? Yup, wool again!) and surplus GS Shirts (Whaddya reckon? Wool? Nah, got you that time, they're made from light cotton and fast drying too.). There are probably more, German Army shirts, American BDU's, 5.11 tactical shirts, Craghoppers shirts (Don't get the BG version, obviously, unless you're GrahamS!) and the list goes on.
Take a look around the forums, find your local TKMaxx, prowl about on eBay and search through that musty old pile of surplus gear at the local surplus store. You'll find some genuinely hard wearing, cheap kit out there. It doesn't have to cost an arm and a leg.
Saying that, if you have the money and wish to spend it on one of these shirts, then good luck to you. It's your cash, spend it as you will. It's cheaper than Mors string! (By two quid!) :D
Orvis do a shirt that is just like the RM one in cut and material, £40 cheaper too. I have had one of their jackets for years and it is superb.
http://www.orvis.co.uk/store/product_choice.asp?dir_id=466&Group_ID=467&cat_id=7368&subcat_id=7377&pf_id=160g&bhcp=1
Squidders
10-08-2008, 11:05
well that's let the cat out of the bag!
:dunno: I made a single layer smock out of ventile (believe me if I can make one so can you!)
I made it to fit me well, including the hood.
Put a big dump pocket for my binos/map on the front.
Put two buttons in the right palace to stop the binos from swinging.
Made it long enough to cover my back when bending over.
Made the sleeves with tight Velcro closure and loose enough to enable the sleeves to be rolled up properly.
It is bomb proof, ‘literally’, you can’t break it! I’ve tried.
I ware it as a shirt in hot weather and a shell in cold. (I wear it constantly when outdoors)
It breathes and never feels clammy even if sweating heavily ‘cus it’s stiffer than ordinary cotton.
It cleans really easily in the field ( and country to popular belief, dries remarkably quickly)
It is 110% mosi/wasp/nettle/thorn/wind proof
It’s more than shower proof, even in quite persistent rain.
You can spray DEET directly onto it and not your skin.
It has a SF+100 rating (not a substantiate claim, but you get the Idea)
Though it’s not going to win any fashion awards it is as close to the only perfect possession I own. When you take the materials and your time into account it won’t be any cheaper than the ‘Ray’ shirt, but you made it, it fits like a glove and you grin like an idiot every time you don it.
In a word owning it is a pleasure................
I took the Blanket coat workshop at the Moot; I doubt I will ever ‘buy’ another outdoor garment. I strongly recommend making your own shirt; it will change your whole perspective on life.
Thank you Toddy, I have seen the light!:notworthy
Good post Bimble. I want to have a go a making one so any chance of posting some tips, pics, etc please? ;)
Cheers
Craeg
traderran
13-03-2009, 10:22
Orvis is good kit.
Bushwhacker
13-03-2009, 13:13
How is £95 for a shirt justified? A shirt's a shirt at the end of the day.
I like my Champion fleece-lined shirts bought from a gentlemans clothing shop for £12 each, I've worn them in the Arctic and they were perfect.
I remember when I was at school and all the kids had flash expensive football boots, I was always bought a cheap pair and my dad would say 'It ain't nothing to do with what boots you've got, it's the player that's stood in 'um" - how right he was.
gregorach
13-03-2009, 13:22
How is £95 for a shirt justified? A shirt's a shirt at the end of the day.
And a pen's a pen - but you can spend over two grand on a Cartier solid gold diamond-set ballpoint pen (http://www.hirschfelds.co.uk/Det/11808M.htm).
Whether something is value for money or not is not just a function of the item and the price - it also depends very much on how much money you have. There is always money to be made simply by selling an item at a higher price, because there's plenty of people out there with lots of money who are looking to spend it. Heck, I bet there's a gentleman's outfitter out there somewhere where you can spend more than £95 on a pair of underpants.
How can it be justified? Easy - people are willing to pay it. Welcome to a market economy.
Bushwhacker
13-03-2009, 13:53
I bet people would pay £10 for a pencil if it had RM printed on the side of it.
mick miller
13-03-2009, 14:25
I've seen bimble's smock, it's the doggies doodads. Although one still needs to know one's way around a sewing machine, something that has sadly eluded me. Would I pay £95 for a shirt? No. But then I don't have a problem with anyone else who may choose to do so.
It's horses for courses as far as I can see.
A can't beleive how much a woodlore knife is £270!! . it may very well be a good knife but so is a helle at £70. I can't beleive there's people out there paying this much and then having to wait months to get it. one word "CRAZY" springs to mind.
Yeah, crazy is your opinion, but its someone ele's money, let them spend it on what they want, who knows, when it gets sweaty they may discard it and i'll find it in a charity shop for a fiver !.
Found something very similar the other day at boundry mills, made by timberland, and for sale at £40, still to much for me(the wife was watching !).
I was watching an American TV show, 'Criminal Minds' FBI show, one of the agents is looking at video footage and says, "Look its a tactical shirt" "A what" replies another agent, "A tactical shirt, all the nuts and survival types who go running round the woods wear them" :lmao: :lmao: :lmao:
I agree fully about the Dockers and Pendleton shirts, hard wearing, warm and won't break the bank, in the summer I tend to use cotton tee shirts or polo tops, even have some green ones;)
Barn Owl
13-03-2009, 18:17
Still going strong after a year,not at a thread out of place.
Worn on average c. 3 times a week.
Very hard wearing shirt.
Craghoppers?....Lots of buttons missing,easily torn. In comparison to 5.11 shirts not value for money.
And not comparable to the woodsman.
For me...been a great buy.
gregorach
13-03-2009, 18:20
For me...been a great buy.
And that's all that really matters. :)
I agree with you Barney, your money your choice and YOU ARE HAPPY WITH IT, good for you, wish i could afford half a dozen !.
A can't beleive how much a woodlore knife is £270!! . it may very well be a good knife but so is a helle at £70. I can't beleive there's people out there paying this much and then having to wait months to get it. one word "CRAZY" springs to mind.
I was just going to say the same thing. I know people that use a clipper for the exact same things as a woodlore, and with just as much skill. £7 against £270 go figure!!
If I looked at all the things I had bought even though there was a much cheaper alternative, I would be crying my eyes out. But I buy things because I like them.
Now if you excuse me I have a gold toilet seat just waiting to be sat on.
happybonzo
16-03-2009, 21:18
£95 is going it a bit Ray!
If I'm not mistaken it is a ringer for the 'Malpai' shirt made by Orvis?
Except it comes in at £36 extra....
You're right - they seem identical :lmao:
Barn Owl
16-03-2009, 22:30
Anyone else actually used the shirt and would like to comment on it?
happybonzo
17-03-2009, 08:55
Anyone else actually used the shirt and would like to comment on it?
If you buy something then you are pleased with it: If you are sold something then, generally, you are not pleased with it
When I have had to teach new Staff I have always tried to impress this on them.
If you say " I bought this car / lawnmower / shirt" then you can be pretty d**n sure that the person is pleased. In saying this people are displaying pride of ownership. When they say that they were sold something it implies that they were pressured into a purchase.
People have the right to spend their money where they like and thank goodness for that. I would be the last person to stop anyone from doing so. Otherwise we would all be running around looking like the Chinese at the time of the Cultural Revolution.
What I do question is the prices being charged. We must all be aware that the greater majority of all clothing comes from China.
What I do find a bit dubious is the re-branding of goods. I would very much like to have both the Orvis and Ray Mears shirt tested by one of the consumer research labs to see what, if any, the differences were.
I am not blaming Mr Mears for this because he has now become a brand and is being marketed in much the same way that Bacon Grylls is
Paullyfuzz
17-03-2009, 13:20
Does anybody that actually has a Woodsman shirt, wanna swap it for my Orvis Malpai shirt, just for comparison that is. Would swop straight back after a few days. Atleast then we would have a good comparision against the 2 shirts.
Anyone ?
Paul
mayobushcraft
23-03-2009, 15:04
I've been watching this shirt for ages, wondering who would buy it, even after I read a positive review someone posted a year back. I've been using Craghoppers and last year left them in a wet pile in the conservatory after a trip. To cut a long story short they needed replacing so I went off to Blacks. I love Craghoppers, but the silly twits have gone and put Grylls name all over them. I left them on the shelf. After buying a new belt from Woodlore, I checked out the shirt again, thought 'sod it' hit the buy button, and now I have one.
Expensive, oh yes, impulse buy, most definately, still got a 'name on it, yes, but at least Ray is respected. And am I happy? Too bloody right. I wish I'd bought this months ago, it's built to last all types of hard work, sweat, dirt, abrasive log lugging, etc, etc. Very well made. I'm even going to buy another. I very highly recommend it.
I also stopped at Blacks with the wife and saw a nice shirt with pockets where I like them. I picked it up thought the price right them saw the BG name all over it. Put it back on the rack and asked if they had something similar without the BG on it. Was told they didnt. Its a shame I would have payed a bit more for one without.
happybonzo
23-03-2009, 15:15
Its a shame when some "celebrity" endorsement puts one off buying a product, isn't it. I've found Craghoppers to be quite reasonable kit but I would prefer not to have poor Mr Grylls name stuck on it.
Still its a lot of cash for a shirt.
Barn Owl
28-04-2009, 19:40
Still its a lot of cash for a shirt.
It'll last forever mate.
Prawnster
28-04-2009, 19:41
It'll last forever mate.
So will this thread!:D
Scots_Charles_River
28-04-2009, 20:04
Ventile/Canvas - at an OEC I worked at we used green ventile smocks. I was very dubious about them, especially as the kids went caving at Succoth then under the waterfall. So I tried one and was converted from my expensive gore tex. That was 1994.
It was waterproof under a waterfall etc. And I was on the website for the centre the other day and a recent gallery photo had the same OG tops !
Ventile trousers with a thin fleece lining would be great for winter walking/climbing. Harder wearing than gore tex or nylon soft shell ones.
Nick
I got a couple of heavy duty cotton shirts by Timberland the other day, both long sleeved, with chest pockets, hopefuly they'll me quite a while, at £20 each.