View Full Version : native American blade?
was there such a thing? What kind of blade was around at the time?
bikething
01-04-2008, 22:37
was there such a thing? What kind of blade was around at the time?
err... what time? 1800's? 1600's ??
bushwacker bob
01-04-2008, 22:42
When America's 1st nation were introduced to the ironage by European invaders they adopted the knives of the Europeans.Usually cheap trade knives along the lines of Greenriver knives, but generally whatever knives were being produced in Europe.
sorry I am showing my ignorance! Have no idea on dates!!
I presume stone tools first!
Then trade items?!?
Mike Ameling
02-04-2008, 01:52
The Indians made knife blades from all the natural materials - stone, bone, wood, clam shells. And for some areas, they had access to natural copper and made knives from copper. The only other metal work knife blades were down in Central and South America with some gold knives. The use and working of iron/steel only came about after European contact, and using their methods. Most are white made, and some were modified by the Indians themselves.
In my photo gallery, I have a picture of some Copper Culture items I made for the Ojibewa Indian village at the Grand Portage Museum. I made replicas of knife blades, awls, and fish hooks - based upon examples of early Indian design/construction.
Hope this helps answer your questions.
Mikey - yee ol' grumpy blacksmith out in the Hinterlands
robin wood
02-04-2008, 07:50
The one steel tool I think of as particular to native America and it is a real beauty is the crooked knife. I don't think these were originaly factory or even blacksmith made but user made tools. I would like to know more about the history of this tool. Maybe Cariboo could help us. I first saw them in a video "Cesar's bark canoe" in which a Cree makes a birch bark canoe with an axe a folding knife and a crook knife...the most inspirational film I have ever seen. His crook is of the type with a bent handle that the thumb sits on like Ben Orford makes. Slightly different knives were used in the North West for carving poles, bowls, spoons and masks.
Many thanks!
Some good info there
Was the tomahawk (Sorry if I am showing ignorance once again) typically a trade item also?
robin wood
02-04-2008, 08:56
Quick google on "tomahawk history" gave this not very scholarly piece but probably OK in the basics.
The History of Native American Tribes. Tomahawk ShieldHistory of the Tomahawk
"Perhaps the most ubiquitous symbol associated with Native Americans is the tomahawk. However, few people are aware of the multiformity of its history as well as its physical characteristics.
The term "tomahawk" is a derivation of the Algonquian words "tamahak" or "tamahakan". The earliest definitions of these words (early 1600's) applied to stone-headed implements used as tools and weapons. Subsequent references involved all manner of striking weapons; wood clubs, stone-headed axes, metal trade hatchets, etc. As the years passed a tomahawk was thought of as any Indian-owned hatchet-type instrument. That association changed somewhat as white frontiersmen (traders, trappers, explorers) came to rely on the tomahawk as standard equipment.
The popular perception of a tomahawk has become that of a lightweight (one lb. or less) metal head on a wood handle. With the exception of a relative few made by Indian blacksmiths, tomahawks were manufactured on a large scale in Europe or created by individual makers in America. Some were crafted in a most elaborate manner, with fancy engraving and pewter or silver inlaid blades and handles, for presentation to important chiefs in order to commemorate treaties and seal friendships. The majority of them, though, were personalized by their owners. Vastly different methods or adornment abounded - according to materials available and the customs and styles of the time and region. Hafts were polished smooth, carved, scalloped, inlaid, branded with hot files, tacked, wrapped with copper or brass wire, covered with rawhide, leather or cloth, stained, painted and hung with every type of ornament imaginable.
Metals used (in rough chronological order) were solid iron, iron with a welded steel bit (cutting edge), brass with steel bit and lastly, solid brass (which diminished its usefulness as a wood-chopping tool). The end of the head opposite the cutting edge provided a place for a spike, hammer poll, or most ingeniously, a pipe bowl.
With a smoking pipe bowl and a drilled or hollowed handle, the pipe tomahawk became the most popular "hawk" of them all. It developed as a trade good by Euro-Americans for trade with native peoples. Iroquois men traded furs for these sought-after tomahawks. Ornate examples were presented at treaty signings as diplomatic gifts to Indian leaders, who carried them as a sign of their prestige. It was at once a weapon and symbol of peace for over 200 years and was carried, scepter-like, in the majority of photographic portraits of prominent Indian chiefs."
Source: "Tools and Weaponry of the Frontiersman
and Indian" by Ray Louis
The History of Native American Tribes. Tomahawk "Tomahawk was a small ax that the Indians of North America used as a tool and a weapon. Most tomahawks measured less than 18 inches (45 centimeters) long and were light enough to be used with one hand. Early tomahawks consisted of a head (top part) made of stone or bone mounted on a wooden handle. Some tomahawks ended in a ball or knob instead of a flat blade. After Europeans arrived in America, the Indians traded with them for iron tomahawk heads.
The Indians used tomahawks to chop wood, to drive stakes into the ground, and for many other purposes. In battle, warriors used their tomahawks as clubs or threw them at their enemies. Tomahawks also served as hunting weapons.
The Indians used a pipe tomahawk in religious ceremonies. This kind of tomahawk had a pipe bowl on the head and a hollow handle, and it could be smoked as a ceremonial pipe. The Indians decorated these tomahawks with feathers or dyed porcupine quills.
Some people think the expression bury the hatchet came from an Indian custom of burying a tomahawk to pledge peace. However, many scholars doubt that the Indians ever had such a custom."
Thanks robin!
I should use google!
robin wood
02-04-2008, 09:30
an here is an excellent page on crook knives http://www.tpadventure.com/Crooked%20Knife.htm
sandbender
02-04-2008, 09:44
Fanciful I know, but when I think about native american blades I think of these...
http://www.winklerknives.com/images/clark306.jpg
http://www.winklerknives.com/images/mooney05.jpg
http://www.winklerknives.com/images/ff0506.jpg
More at....
http://www.winklerknives.com/
:)
This is a very good book on the history of the crooked knives in PDF form with lots of illustrations: http://www.mocotauganthebook.com/import.html
robin wood
02-04-2008, 10:33
Jojo that crook knife link is fantastic thanks.
Fanciful I know, but when I think about native american blades I think of these...
http://www.winklerknives.com/images/clark306.jpg
http://www.winklerknives.com/images/mooney05.jpg
http://www.winklerknives.com/images/ff0506.jpg
More at....
http://www.winklerknives.com/
:)
wow!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Some of those are real stunners!
sandbender
02-04-2008, 11:25
wow!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Some of those are real stunners!
The prices are stunning too :eek:
Apparently he is made the knifes and tools for Michael Mann's The Last of the Mohicans, I do like the folder though :)
The prices are stunning too :eek:
Apparently he is made the knifes and tools for Michael Mann's The Last of the Mohicans, I do like the folder though :)
Impessive (and as you say impressive prices!)
Cheers
RobertRogers
02-04-2008, 16:45
Eskimo and other natives throughout the world had access to and used iron taken from metorites: http://www.nunatsiaq.com/opinionEditorial/columns.html
robin wood
02-04-2008, 17:43
Eskimo and other natives throughout the world had access to and used iron taken from metorites: http://www.nunatsiaq.com/opinionEditorial/columns.html
Is there any evidence of Inuit or any Native Americans using iron prior to European contact?
The link above refers to Inuit using iron in the late 19th Century.