View Full Version : Sharpening the North Star...
ok i have just take the plunge and ordered a Bark River K&T North Star... :o): but this is a big step up from the old mora.. and now i worrie my sharpening skills will not do justice to the new blade...
soo all information greatfully recieved.. fistly what are the most common systems?
You will need either a hoodoo hone, or a starkie sharp or both. Do a search on those terms and you will turn up loads of info.
Forget sharpening systems and stones, they will dramatically alter the edge profile and so are no use for a full convex grind.
BUY A STARKIE SHARP (http://www.axminster.co.uk/default.asp?part=180010) . The best sharpening tool for convex and non convexes since....urmmm...
Get yourself one of those and use it as a normal strop. With the paste on it you'll have a polished and razor edge in no time! The edges on BRKT are easy to sharpen and stay very sharp for a long time, but the starkie keep 'em up to scratch whenever needed.
If you dent it that is more of a problem. Im sure one of the people here can point you in the direction of that convex sharpening tutorial.
Hope that helps. I am the official BCUK starkie sharp representative, errmmm.
Cheers,
Jake
That you are jake, that you are.
...want to borrow a knife to practice on? I've a woodlore that could do with a touch up. :D :D :D
*add* It sais "lightly apply to the leather". I think its better if you put more on than what it implies. Im sure many people here will also recomend this product.
ok so let me get this straight... i use a starkie sharp whish is a piece of leather??? to top up the edge on my knife?
ok so let me get this straight... i use a starkie sharp whish is a piece of leather??? to top up the edge on my knife?
That is correct - and you'll get a razor edge too. :wink:
Its a leather strop...yeah. You can use it without the paste but its best to use it as it is much quicker. Have you never used a leather strop before?
Same time posted there Martyn. And i think you said it better than me :wink:
Well I've just ordered this starkie sharp from axminster after all the good things I heard about it.
You'll be a convert mate! I wish i tallied all the people i persuaded, i then could have sent an invoice to starkie.
Just to note, pretty much any piece of leather will do the job (eg leather belt). The only reason the Starkie sharp gets a mention is because it comes with some honing compound, is nice and wide and is cheap as chips.
If you already have some honing compound for a buffing machine, or you have some other type of metal polish, you can just get an offcut of leather and you'll do just as well.
/edit - oops, just noticed the honing compound is extra, but at £5.45 is still cheap as chips for both the leather and compound.
yeh i have used a leather strop.. but i have only ever used it after a waterstone for finishing...
i willl need to only use this (and the paste) with the new knife.. seems nice and simple :)
yeh i have used a leather strop.. but i have only ever used it after a waterstone for finishing...
i willl need to only use this (and the paste) with the new knife.. seems nice and simple :)
That's just to keep the edge touched up to a razor. If the blade gets dinked, or very dull, you'll need a hoodoo hone.
ok yes... thanks for all the information people... i dont know of anywhere else in the world where one could ask specialised questions at quater to twelve and recieve useful answers in seconde :)
ok next.. is a hoodoo hone anything to do with BCUK's very own Hoodoo?
i dont seem to be able to find much on it... any links?
bushwacker bob
31-08-2004, 23:58
The Hoodoo hone is a bit of wet and dry paper, mounted on a mousemat,mounted on a block of wood. It was perfected and posted by Dr Trier a.k.a Hoodoo and its used by most as an exellent sharpening system for all blade types. Do a search at the top of the page for an illustrated tutorial.
ok next.. is a hoodoo hone anything to do with BCUK's very own Hoodoo?
One and the same.
Search BcUK for "hoodoo hone"
here's one that came up...
http://www.bushcraftuk.net/community/showthread.php?t=842&highlight=hoodoo+hone
how easy is it to mess up...?
does one need to get angles (sp) exactly right
nahhh, I think you can safely ignore most of the worries I expressed in that thread. Mike Stuart and Hoodoo did a good job of convincing me it was a doddle.
The Starkie sharp will see you through 95% of your needs.
:o): Thank you very much.. that has put my mind at reast... now i just have to find a way to fill the wait untill it arrives!!
bushwacker bob
01-09-2004, 01:09
There are a few of us pacing the floor waiting for a north star :lol:
hehe... what is your specification?
The General
01-09-2004, 03:55
You ought to see the Spyderco Military that Sargey has... A great polished convex edge thanks to the Hoodoo hone and strop... :You_Rock_
Got me thinking now... :o):
RovingArcher
01-09-2004, 04:15
Here's a site that goes into the convex grind and sharpening angles.
Sharpening convex (http://home.nycap.rr.com/sosak/convex.htm)
Tomtom as a recent convert to convex you will not believe how easy it is to keep your edge tiptop - the hoodoo hone and the sharkie sharp are perfect combo, I use the sharkie in the field and the hone in base camp or home.
One top tip - top up your edge continually, if it starts to dull strol it then and there and it will never let you down.
bushwacker bob
01-09-2004, 08:26
hehe... what is your specification?
Thuja burl with red spacers
I've gots to say:
I really don't like the Starkie Sharp :yikes:
I find it a bit awkward to use without slicing my fingers.
Much more comfortable with a full sized strop.
Oh and I was slightly miffed to see that the polishing compound was the same polishing blue that I have a stack of in our workshop!
Controversial!
where do you get it lurch.. is this the type of stuff that you can get in a good hardware store?
Get mine from a local engineering store. I guess you could probably get it from a good hardware store, it's just your regular polishing bar. Comes in a block of blue stuff!
I myself have made a Hoodoo hone after my brothers mate tried to sharpen my axe on a dry waterstone. They are excellent at honing and polishing an edge and the only real way to keep that convex grind.
Before using the Hoodoo Hone:
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v414/YoungBushman/100_0760.jpg
After:
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v414/YoungBushman/100_0765.jpg
Good Luck!
The leather pad is a little short but thats why god invented leather belts to hold up your trousers!
Paste one end - and strop the other - and a belt, strap for fire wood carrying etc - wicked multi tool! :super:
Yup. That's what I do. Stand on the buckle if you want a bit of tension in the strop.
I expect it to be very cumbersome when out in the field so just cut a little piece of paste off and use it with your belt or cut a piece of leather stick it on top of a mousemat stuck to a bit of wood.
ok stage one of the hoodoo hone compleat.. i have a bit of wood with some slits in it... (now need to find a mouse mat) but also..
What sorts of sand paper does one use, is it wet&dry, glass paper.. sand paper.. does it matter, but most importantly (i guess) what grades of paper should i use?
I used a piece of foam from an old ground mat for mine! And wet and dry seems to be best as the backing is generally tougher.
ok thanks :You_Rock_ .. and is it better wet or dry? and what grades?
Dry - the idea of wetting a stone is to remove waste that blocks the pours here your just going to chuck the paper once worn out so you need not worry about it.
Grades - I have pre-prepared strips of 600, 400 and 200 (or is it 220?) anyway they work ok for me. And carry more Fine grade strips as these will be used more. :lol: :-)
I prefer to use a bit of WD40 regularly sprayed on to the paper or the paper clogs up. WD40 helps keep it clean and prolongs the life of the paper
Interesting idea Mushi, but surely the idea of the hoodoo hones is to simplify the sharpening process, if your going to carry oil and such you might as well just good back to an oil stone.
Just a thought :roll:
AH! Someone against the starkie? Dont use it the same way you would use a normal strop. Lie it on a surface and just drag your knife along the leather. Kinda more like you would use a stone, except, erm, different.
Cheers,
Jake
I thought the idea of the "hoodoo hone" was that it comformed to a convex edge? ... obviously in the field, you don't want to be carrying oil too .. water will work ... but Wet'n'Dry clogs up just like a stone would ... using something to keep the particles from filling between the grit will prolong the life of the grit .. at home maintenance use some WD40 .. in the field . some water... and if you are carrying soap .. use a bit of soap with the water .. and your Wet'n'dry will last 3 - 5 times as long
why would anyone want an oil stone? .. horrible things :nana: :wink:
AH! Someone against the starkie? Dont use it the same way you would use a normal strop. Lie it on a surface and just drag your knife along the leather.
Yeah I know, that's why I don't like it.
Alright in the field I s'pose given it's compactness, but not my weapon of choice.
Anyway, someone needs to provide much needed balance in this heavily pro-starkie biased media :nana:
SquirrelBoy
01-09-2004, 20:17
Not that ive used a Starkie thingy but isnt it just as easy to use your belt?
Whack some Autosol/Toothpaste whatever on one end and your done surely?
Also its not another thing to carry around,loose or rumage through in your pack
K.I.S.S :?:
The starkie is a perfect width, if used properly you shouldnt need as much length as a belt. Its a perfect little sharpening tool, so easy and efficient! Oh well, cant please 'em all. :wink:
Cheers,
Jake
"Open Coat" sandpaper is less likely to clog. Just turn over and tap to cause metal to fall out. I have been using MMM Opencoat Al. Oxide 1200 grit when leather strop doesn't work to restore edge.
Cardboard is also a good stropping material. Place on hard surface and roll the wrist while drawing the knife back.
Keen cutting.
Tom
waaaaaa :cry: My stwupid axe wont gwet a wazor edge with the swarkie swarp. I was doing it fwor about an hour i was!
Please help. I was doing backwards and forwards strokes like normal. I was doing it for quite a while and why the edge has sharpened it isn't sharp enough to slice paper or shaving sharp. :cry: And the edge was quite sharp before stropping so it wasn't completely dulled or anything.
Scott :roll:
were you using paste?
were you going back and forth on the edge?
Within the paste are abrasive particles .. if you push from edge to spine as well as from spine to edge, you are bringing the particles at the face of the edge, thus smoothing and rounding something you want to be sharp and angular .. you only go one way when stropping .. from spine to edge
scott, it sounds like you might have a case of the terribleoversharpenings. it sometimes happens with stropping convex edges, that the strop might be "giving" too much, you start off with a nice sharp edge, but end up with a nice rounded butterknife edge :cry: this is why many of the commercial strops you can buy are glued to a whacking great lump of wood. don't worry about it, it's far easier to do than you'd think, and it only took me about a year to work out what was going wrong :shock: and that is no joke!
without actually seeing the axe before and after, i can't really say for sure. but you might just have to go all the way back to the beginning and start again.
were you using the starkie strop on a hard surface, or a soft one?
cheers, and.
and is right, a strop wont work miracles. You've overdone it.
were you using the starkie strop on a hard surface, or a soft one?
cheers, and.
A hard surface for most of the time then near to when I stopped I put a mousemat underneath the leather thinking that you might need the strop to conform to the edge on convex edges like when using the Hoodoo Hone.
If you roll or lift the blade too much when stropping, you'll just polish the edge blunt.
What shall I do now then?
Hi Scott,
I'd get it sharp again using either the Hoodoo hone or some other method. Ten once you finished, get the starkie, lay it flat on a wooden bench-top, and drag the knife towards you with the edge facing away. Then as you get to the middle of the leather roll the spine up and you can feel a slight difference in the friction. do that over and over and you'll get a razor edge in no time. Perhaps someone here could clarify what i just said, it is 9:30!! Urgh, work in a min.
Cheers,
Jake
The General
05-09-2004, 19:34
Try not to spend more than a couple of mins stropping (each side) at a time. Otherwise you will probably over do it.
Remember, a strop is for keeping an edge, not creating it. You need to get the edge first, then strop little and often to keep it at razor.
Jake is spot on, it's all in the touch. If you lift the spine too high, you'll round the edge and make it dull. You need to lift the spine just enough so the edge just touches the leather. You can feel it through your fingers when it's "sweet" on the leather.
Once you've dulled the knife or axe in the way you describe, forget about further stropping. You need to go back to square one and put and edge back onto the axe with hones & stones.
Oky Doky, I shall get on to it tonight. Thanks for your help. :-P
ok back to the original topic: i jus got my starkie sharp, and i was wondering.. which side does one use.. does it matter.. do you use both?
Hmmm, always wanted to know that. But it doesn't seem to matter, i think the rougher side is better IMO, but i could be wrong.
one side had writing embossed on it.. and the other Axminster stuck a nice sticky lable in the middle of it!
Jake mate! You're the Starkie Meister, surely you know?
beachlover
01-10-2004, 18:32
Looked at the thread and wonder why the worries.
Old guy who cuts my hair has a strop and a cut throat. No fine angle measuring, no board, he just has the strop tied to the back of the chair and does it free hand (no jokes please!) and his razor is, well, razor sharp.
You use the side where you can read the name "Starkie ..." ... although I think you could use the other side.
I know i know :wink:
I think i had it right though, with the starkie side. But both seem to work with that starkie magic.
ok i have just been giving my mora a sharpen on the starkie sharp...
how does one know when it si razor sharp??
is "razor sharp" a certain degree of shrapness(?) or is it just very sharp,
is there a point which must be passed before it can be considered "Razor Sharp"
little help please :)
If you can shave your arm, it's razor sharp.
Squidders
02-10-2004, 19:45
If your edge gets wet and you get hydrogen you know you should stop :nana:
I know i should get that joke, and i probably will in a second, but i wasn't ever that good at chemistry. Could you explain? :wink:
water is 2 molicules of hydrogen and one of oxygen (H2O)
I describe a knife as shaving sharpe if it takes a few hairs off. If it takes off the lot then it's like a razor
I always make sure i can shave the stubble that is now on my left arm, then o know it is sharp enough!