View Full Version : What makes it a Nessmuk Knife?
Ok, a question for you guys in the know :D
I can look at a knife and say "that's a Nessmuk Knife" and sometimes - that's a "Nessmuk inspired Knife" But i've seen a lot of pictures lately and to be honest some of the knives that as listed as a Nessmuk Knife i've got no idea how they qualify for that description.
Is every knife that has a thickening in the width of the blade that's closer to the point than the handle and has flowing lines (on some of them) classed as a Nessmuk?
you've got this from the book
http://i24.photobucket.com/albums/c19/hollowdweller/Tools.jpg
Then you've got some that look like it and others....well, i'm just not sure :D
http://www.texasknife.com/store/images/Blbuf.jpg
I'm sure you get what I mean..any thoughts?
My opinion is that for it to be a true Nessmuk knife it has to have the same lines, shape and possibly grind. It was a knife he used and had for a specific job. If you want to name it after him its got to be accurate.
I've got nothing against the rest, they all look great, its just to me they are Nessmuk style rather then a Nessmuk knife if you see what i mean.
i agree with KNC. I call mine Nessmuks, but they are inspired by the style Nessmuk advocated. His description in his book, apart from the drawing is scant: the knife... is thin in the blade, and handy for skinning, cutting meat and eating with. I would assume it was forged with a stick tang rather than stock removal full tang. (what is "thin" anyway?
I have one I made with a 2mm thick blade, and it's in constant use in the kitchen and does extremely well in that role, could be a bit longer though :rolleyes:
All the others i have made were 3mm and full tang, with scany grind, so not strictly Nessmuks. For all of them I used a photocopy of that picture but had to enlarge the handle. Still I think they are good knives. I am tempted though to take up forging, just to be able to make one proper Nessmuk!
I can't see how that blade showed by Tony could ever be called Nessmuk :confused: It's nothing like it.
The closer to the actual photo, the more likely I would call it a nessmuk. However, and most importantly, it has to function like a Nessmuk. Some designs are too blunt nosed imo. Nesmuk's blade was pointy. The point has to drop, not sweep up like a skinner. The knife was designed to penetrate the hide of a deer and gut it. The skinner in your photo is not designed for that.
Note the blade curves continuously, just like an ulu, which is a very versatile tool. No straight sections. This is not just a hunting knife. Overall, the knife has an S shape to it. This gives finger clearance. And of course, Nessmuk railed against thick-blades. A good Nessmuk knife is thin.
I think this one comes close to a modern version of a nessmuk. ;)
http://www4.gvsu.edu/triert/images2/dozierteton2.jpg
Good thread Tone, I have been starting to wonder if people will call anything with a bit of a hump back a Nessmuk. GWS comes across as a bit of a pedant in his books, imho, and I reckon he had a very specific design in mind with his knife.
Good thread Tone, I have been starting to wonder if people will call anything with a bit of a hump back a Nessmuk.
Yeah, that's the impression i've been getting.
Thanks for the feedback so far guys, most of what's been said i figured to be the case. To me for it to really be a Nessmuk it needs to fulfil the role that he designed it for, although I do understand that that leaves a lot of room for inspired pieces...but to me, even the inspired pieces should be near the mark...but that's personal and I suppose doesn't allow for evolution:D
I have always thought of nessmuks as a fulltang knife, but i have understand that the original was a hidden tang.
For me nessmuk knives should have a broad point and a slightly curved eggline. I have understand that it was a flat scandigrind on the original nessmuk.
Seved
I have always thought of nessmuks as a fulltang knife, but i have understand that the original was a hidden tang.
For me nessmuk knives should have a broad point and a slightly curved eggline. I have understand that it was a flat scandigrind on the original nessmuk.
Seved
I'd hazard a guess it didn't have a scandi grind. Flat ground blades were more common in North America at the time. The picture could be interpreted as a scandi but that would suggest that the axe was too. Nessmuk didn't mention grind in the text.
For me a nessmuk should resemble the picture and description in the book
British Red
07-03-2008, 20:01
Hmmm some large bevel seems clear to me in the picture....I doubt it would be convex (although the axe probably was).......so it was scandy....honest....really.... ..it was............
these days marketing
forme the reasons for the nessmuk being the way it is are more important then detail to the shape. The 5inch butchers knives made in the 19th century are very similar and I would agrue that they are more nessmuk like then something which has a more closely related profile but very differentcross section.
I think the nessmuk should resemble the pic.
Why?
He specified his knife was different to the bowies and other blades he didnt like, the picture is his ideal knife.
How many people use a nessmuk as their main knife? If you do why?
Continuous curve to the edge, drop or spear point with a distinctive hump about a third of the way back from the point to keep all cutting/ piercing parts of the blade away from the gut wall when skinning/ dressing game.
I have one of JoJo's as my main user - why? It's ideal for skinning rabbits, it's beautifully made (JoJo's design template makes for a very elegant and balanced knife), the curve means, every part of the cutting edge is a sweet spot (great for feather sticks) and although probably not true to the original, the 3mm, full tang, scandi makes it robust enough for just about anything.
The only minus points are that it could possibly do with being slightly longer (handle and blade), as the edge runs right up to the handle and requires careful use. I'm no fine carver and I would guess that those with the talent in that department might prefer another tool for that job.
For me it's nigh on perfect and I'm saving up to ask JoJo for another custom model!
Here in scandinavia (sweden,Norway and Finland) scandiground have been very popular for 100-200 yers or so. But i have understand that Bowies from uk and usa have often been fullflat grinded. I dont no, Did nessmuk made hes knives by himself. I think its easyer to make a scandigrind, becouse you dont have to file so much. BUT thats only what i think:D.
Seved
Landy_Dom
08-03-2008, 12:00
I have one I made with a 2mm thick blade, and it's in constant use in the kitchen and does extremely well in that role, could be a bit longer though :rolleyes:
For all of them I used a photocopy of that picture but had to enlarge the handle.
is it just me, or if you scaled up the whole knife, still true to Nessmuk's drawing, you would get the blade a little longer AND the handle would be enlarged? I guess thats the engineer in me.... :D
Dom.
This is my version of a nessmuk that I made for a KITH on BB.
5" blade 4 1/2 Handle
poor picture though
http://http://i142.photobucket.com/albums/r96/elma_020/nessmuk.jpg
Looks nice D:. Is it a hidden tang.
Seved
What i did was to enlarge the picture to obtain a blade of about 4" long. The handle was then a bit small, for me anyway, I have fairly large hands, so I ended up lengthening the handle to fit my hand.
It does not say in Nessmuk book how long the blade of his knife actually was. It could very well have been longer than the ones I made so far. It could also be that he needed a smaller knife with smaller handle. I have read somewhere he was beset with poor health all his life and was of slight built, so perhaps it was a small knife. hard to tell really.
If I have enlarged the drawing to have the handle fit my hand, the blade would have been longer. Hope this makes sense :confused:
I am making another "nessmuk" style to play with:
http://i90.photobucket.com/albums/k270/mollygypsy/DSCN0198-1.jpg
Does it qualify as being a Nessmuk? The blade is fairly similar, the curve a bit flatter. Dare I say it :eek: not a scandi grind this time :p
Looks good to me D:. Maybe its a nessmuk inspired knife.
Seved
At the moment I have a nessie as my main user. Its full tang, 3mm thick convex ground, about 4" long. It's great for food prep where the traditional woodlore clone only comes into its own for the launch the carrot slice competition. It can feather sticks and baton and do general camp chores well. The only place it doesn't fare well is fine detail carving but as I have a sloyd knife in my kit with my spoon knife that's not a problem. I suppose that takes the place of the folder in nessmuks kit.
I'm in the process of making a forged stick tang one to be a bit more traditional.
I do have to say I do find the shape very pleasing to the eye, which to me is quite important.
Did some work on my latest nessie today. Mostly forged, then tidied up with files. The quench went well but I snapped a little bit off the tip when I was straightening it:o . I ground down the spine to put a point on it but it still needs a little more work to fine tune the shape again. I'll probably temper it tonight.
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v54/LJintheUK/blades/2008_0309Image0012.jpg
Very nice blade, Luke. Is this your first forged blade? The knife will look much more traditional when finished.
Hmmm some large bevel seems clear to me in the picture....I doubt it would be convex (although the axe probably was).......so it was scandy....honest....really.... ..it was............
Oh he's off on his scandi lurve again LOL:D
I think the nessmuk should be as near as possible to the blade shape in the diagram, but with modern handle options like the pic in Hoodoo's post, after all time moves on, but you could still have the traditional antler if it floats your boat. I also believe that the nessmuk blade would have been thin (2mm perhaps??) As stated earlier, the author loathed thick blades, so I can't see him having one. The blade shape is the key for me though, If it doesn't look like a Nessmuk, don't call it one. A frosts mora doesn't look like a woodlore after all yet they're both still knives (OK well one of them is a knife, the other is an investment bond) :D
British Red
09-03-2008, 21:34
u dissin me scandy luv there bro?
:D
Very nice blade, Luke. Is this your first forged blade? The knife will look much more traditional when finished.
This is my second attempt. It's from flat 01 stock, so didn't need too much shaping, and I'll end up grinding some more off the spine to get the shape I want. Most of the beveling was forged, with just a bit of tidying with files and a fair bit of filework on the tang. I picked up a red deer antler shed on Friday, a nice 9 pointer, and I think there might be a roll in there suitable for a handle.
u dissin me scandy luv there bro?
:D
Moi?? How very dare you:eek:
Finished up my latest nessie. Brass, leather and antler.
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v54/LJintheUK/blades/2008_0312Image0009.jpg
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v54/LJintheUK/blades/2008_0312Image0013.jpg
Bernie Garland
12-03-2008, 20:22
Very nice work.
Bernie
I agree with Bernie, a nicely crafted knife indeed.
Okay, here goes.
Nessmuk goes on at length about his axe, canoe, fishing equipment and numerous other things yet not is knife. He simply mentions what it is to be used for and that it ought be thin. You could deduce from this that it was function over form.
Through hsis life Nessmuk would have seen a boom in the cutlery producing industry. Restrictions on import of British knives through the civil war (1861-5) led to the birth of the US cutlery industry. There was probably a lot of knives to choose from and this could have been simply one companies pattern. Not too likely, but possible.
Nessmuk's kit is not really that of a bushcrafter. He essentially was a lightweight hunter and all of the stories contain a lot of hunting and fishing references. Skinning and butchery were therefore far more important to him than to the majority of us. He needed a butchers knife for butchery and kitchen work not for carving wood.
Nessmuk mentions his axe for cutting wood and a folding knife for whittling - there aren't really a lot of mentions of heavy duty knife work in his book either so in all probability it didn't need a Scandi edge. Scandi grinds may rule on wood (o.k. British red? ;-) but a kitchen or butcher's knife is more likely ot be flat ground with, perhaps, the final edge bevel slightly convex from free hand sharpening and stropping.
One of the biggest cutlery manufacturers in the 19th century US was green River - who continue to this day. They were making outdoors blades with their stamp from 1837 (according to the internet that is) if you look at a green river sheep skinner there is a degree of similarity - it wouldn't take too much time to turn one knife into the other - there is a tutorial over on British Blades doing something similar. It doesn't quite have that distinctive S-shape.
The final option, when thinking on the S-shape, is that the knife was perhaps a forerunner or earlier ancestor of the DH Russell/ Grohmann tyoe belt knife. They both have the constantly curved leaf shaped blade, with a point. Both also feature an offset or kinked handle which gives finger clearance and both are thin blades. Finally they both have a fair connection to canoeing.
Sorry to go on, not really a lot of facts but I hope it is food for thought.
Theres a nessmuk'ish knife in a morrisons advert. (the one with the pork chops!)
Okay, here goes.
Nessmuk goes on at length about his axe, canoe, fishing equipment and numerous other things yet not is knife. He simply mentions what it is to be used for and that it ought be thin. You could deduce from this that it was function over form.
Through hsis life Nessmuk would have seen a boom in the cutlery producing industry. Restrictions on import of British knives through the civil war (1861-5) led to the birth of the US cutlery industry. There was probably a lot of knives to choose from and this could have been simply one companies pattern. Not too likely, but possible.
Nessmuk's kit is not really that of a bushcrafter. He essentially was a lightweight hunter and all of the stories contain a lot of hunting and fishing references. Skinning and butchery were therefore far more important to him than to the majority of us. He needed a butchers knife for butchery and kitchen work not for carving wood.
Nessmuk mentions his axe for cutting wood and a folding knife for whittling - there aren't really a lot of mentions of heavy duty knife work in his book either so in all probability it didn't need a Scandi edge. Scandi grinds may rule on wood (o.k. British red? ;-) but a kitchen or butcher's knife is more likely ot be flat ground with, perhaps, the final edge bevel slightly convex from free hand sharpening and stropping.
One of the biggest cutlery manufacturers in the 19th century US was green River - who continue to this day. They were making outdoors blades with their stamp from 1837 (according to the internet that is) if you look at a green river sheep skinner there is a degree of similarity - it wouldn't take too much time to turn one knife into the other - there is a tutorial over on British Blades doing something similar. It doesn't quite have that distinctive S-shape.
The final option, when thinking on the S-shape, is that the knife was perhaps a forerunner or earlier ancestor of the DH Russell/ Grohmann tyoe belt knife. They both have the constantly curved leaf shaped blade, with a point. Both also feature an offset or kinked handle which gives finger clearance and both are thin blades. Finally they both have a fair connection to canoeing.
Sorry to go on, not really a lot of facts but I hope it is food for thought.
My thoughts exactly - in fact I had a rant at Spam last week on exactly the same points (unusual for me to be ranting at Spam rather than vice versa :rolleyes: ). I think the function of a Nessmuk knife is that it is a hunting / kitchen / game prep knife, and the whittling and chopping jobs are done by the penknife and the hatchet/axe respectively. It's not trying to be a jack-of-all-trades, (although it probably does a fair job in that role too) because Nessmuk doesn't intend to use it as such.
Incidentally, I'm so impressed with the recent Jojo-Spam Nessmuk currently sitting on my workbench that I've ordered a blade from Jojo for myself. No connection, rah-de-rah....
Rat