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Question to Bushcraftuk!!!!
Please enlighten me on membership fees?
As this is a public group why do we have to pay fees?
Who controls all the money paid by members?
Where does all the money go?
Is this a profit making organisation?
Are these unreasonable questions?
Do you post an annual breakdown?
These are some questions I would like answered before I pay.
TKS
Who said you have to pay anything Frogo to participate here? You posted items for sale in the Wanted section (your first post) that I deleted and I informed you to the rules of the forum that states that selling is only allowed in the Member's Classified section and that in order to be able to post there you have to be a Full or Supporting Member.
Thanks Adi for the reply,
1. you did not answer the questions I asked?
2. Why do you have a problem with answering what I asked?
3. I did not offer items for sale, items wanted/ items offered.
4. there was no mention of money, you just assumed I was asking for money.
Frogo
tenbears10
18-08-2004, 23:42
I that case I'll have that woodlore for free frogo.
Oh and thanks very much.
Didn't think so.
Bill
Ugh No Answers.
For a mere £250.00 membership fee you get the same as a £15.00
membership, a little extra you get a GOOd FEELING of giving to
BUSHCRAFT UK. hellooo, WHO IN BUSHCRAFT UK GETS THE CASH THEN
AND WHERE DOES IT GO EXACTLY? ARE THESE UNREASONABLE QUESTIONS?
I THINK NOT.
PLEASE ENLIGHTEN.
ALSO IF A PERSON WAS UNABLE TO AFFORD THESE SUMS OF MONEY.
ARE THERE ANY CHARITABLE CONCESSIONS? AS AFTER ALL BUSHCRAFT
SHOULD SURELY BE OPEN TO ALL REGARDLESS OF FINANCIAL STATUS.
IF THIS IS NOT THE CASE YOU HAVE MADE THIS FORUM INTO AN ELITIST GROUP? CORRECT ME IF IM WRONG? PLEASE DO?
Frogo
Hey :bat: before starting to argue :argue: you should read the guidelines to this forum :deal:, and start appreciating what Tony, Adi etc has done here.
Sorry but your attitude is way :thumbs_do
Not argueing with anyone, just asking reasonable questions about
where the good people of this groups money goes?
Why is that a problem? Why are you so defensive?
OK if you read Adi' post above it says "who says you have to pay?". There is no NEED to pay for using the site but if you feel you want to contribute to the running of BCUK then you're welcome too, personally I feel that this site is great, I've taken up a fantastic hobby and there is some really good people here. The information is invaluable.
Up till now Tony was running the forum on his own expenses and many of us wanted to show our appreciation by contributing a little to the running of the site (since then there has been many improvements).
As far as I'm aware all proceeds go towards maintaining BCUK.
As for the higher end membership fee's they're either for a company willing to sponsor the site or for a laugh from Tony, hence the "Good feelings of helping BCUK" comment.
Hope you now feel enlightened enough to leave us alone and stop trying to run down the site.
BTW patience is a virtue... learn it!
Matt
Yes but if you don't PAY it restricts you to what you can post elitist or what?
Some people as my point was made earlier cannot or may not be able to afford to pay. So how do they post pictures or items for sale etc?
Surely sending pictures to a forum shouldn't cost you money.
You say the money goes to maintaining the site, all I want to know
like any other charity is what it pays for exactly?
Regardless of whoever and however everyone has worked on this site.
Asking these questions and getting the answers should be straightforward
surely.
Frogo
hmmm not a member of http://www.iswba.com/ indulging in some poo stiring then frogo ? :rolmao:
Frogo.
it is not compulsary here to be a paying member. many very active members have chosen for their own reasons not to become supporting members. That is their choice and we respect that. I and many other members have felt that we gain a lot from membership to BCUK and that Tony has created something that we would like to see contimue and grow. The costs of running a site like this are not inconsiderable and a small contribution of £15 is less than most of us spend on beer on a friday night.
Frogo i suggest you look at the thread on British blades about BCUK being down. there is a great deal of Warmth for this site and BB. Please don't share the hospitality of the site and abuse the poeple that make it possible.
Some of your questions are not unreasonable. The tone is a bit harsh and the typed word often gives more weight than otherwise intended. BCUK as i understand it is not a club or organiastion with a formal constitution and has no real need to post accounts.
It is straight foward you just need to wait a little while to get reply as not everyone is online all the time or has the time/inclination to read all the posts.
Posting pictures can be done the way we used to do it before the extra money allowed Tony the storage space and bandwidth to allow photos to be store on the forum, use a site like yoxio and link it in here, see it works, now that was easy wasn't it. Actually being able to post pictures on the forum is a way for Tony & Adi to say thanks for helping with paying for the costs of running the site (faster, bigger servers, more bandwidth etc), something thats needed for a site thats getting over 70,000 hits a month.
hmmm not a member of http://www.iswba.com/ indulging in some poo stiring then frogo ? :rolmao:
Actually that was my first thought too :o):
How much did you pay????????????????
How much did you pay????????????????
You will probably find that most people have gone for a year membership, the cost is not excessive, as Wayne mentioned it is no more than would be spent on a night out.
I like a lot of people who attend this site am not exactly the best payed person in the world, but this site has the ability to link people who share a common interest.
Little groups that can meet every now and then, practice skills, share knowledge, generally chew the fat and have a good laugh. You will notice that there are stories on here of success and failure that allow each and everyone to learn from mistakes and good skills.
You also get the chance to aquire some good kit from cheap sources, because if you ask people will tell, or you get can bits from members of the site.
I have probably saved as much on the kit that I have bought from knowledge gained on this site as I have paid for membership as well as having made some friends.
And as the others have stated you don't have to pay, posting pictures can still be done, but it has to be done the same way that we used to do it.
With the money provided from membership the guys that run this site have done a very good job, I would not think that they are trying to set up some form of elitist group as they have not asked any one to pay.
The original button for subscription was a donation button and I payed when it was a donation and there were no perks in place then, yet I have still been afforded the same as the people who have subscribed.
I hope this goes some way towards explaining the system here and why people have payed. It was not for personal gain, it was because the server that we had been working with was awfull and we wanted a little more :wave:
Yes but if you don't PAY it restricts you to what you can post elitist or what?
You can do anything you like, same as everyone else for free - except make money off the site by using the classifieds. If you want to sell stuff, you have to pay for the privelige. If you think that is unreasonable, go talk to your local newspaper about thier classified advertising rates.
Do I sense some hostility here? The guy is only asking a question.
As a paying member of a club you, he or I all have the right by law to see how your money is spent. The club treasurer should be able to publish such info at request or it can be presented at a AGM.
Of course as nonmembers or if you simply make a donation you have no say and there for cannot claim.
tenbears10
19-08-2004, 08:17
With the amount of stuff you listed for sale (sorry for offer) in your first post you would have made well over £500 if you shifted it all so do you think £5 (suporting member + use of classifieds) is too much to pay. You could just as easily sell it all on ebay but they would also charge a fee for the sale wouldn't they.
There is no need to start typing in capitals and shouting your message and then claim you just wanted to ask some questions. Manners go a long way even on the internet, you wouldn't walk into a shop and start shouting that it was elitist if they didn't serve you immediatly would you?
Bill
Do I sense some hostility here? The guy is only asking a question.
As a paying member of a club you, he or I all have the right by law to see how your money is spent. The club treasurer should be able to publish such info at request or it can be presented at a AGM.
Of course as nonmembers or if you simply make a donation you have no say and there for cannot claim.
precisely.
It's not a club - in fact it's not a public website. It's a privately owned site with public access - and we all use at the leave of the owner - Tony.
We have no rights at all. Tony pays for this site out of his own pocket and has done for a long time. So yes, a little hostility perhaps, when someones first post is an attempt at using this freely provided, private resource for commerce, and then complains because he cant see the owners bank balance. BcUK is not a club, it's not an organisation, it's privately funded, on the whole by one man. Tony pays the rent on this virtual hotel and lets us in to play out of a sense of fellowship for like minded people. I'm afraid it does irritate when ungracious guests are not content to put thier feet on the furniture, but demand to look in his wallet as well.
Oh and while we're at it, I have no idea how much Tony has collected, or will collect in the future, but I doubt it'll buy him a new BMW. If he gets enough to cover costs, great, if there's enough left over to take his wife out for a meal - great. It's none of my business. either way. The contributors donate (or not) as they wish.
If you're miffed because you cant make money out of this privately owned, privately funded website without makeing a donation - hard luck!
....and YES THEY ARE UNREASONABLE QUESTIONS!
Hi Frogo,
Many thanks for your post, if you don’t mind I’ll address your questions out of order.
Are these unreasonable questions?
Some of them are confrontational and aggressive. I’m surprised by them as you did instigate a PM conversation with me on this subject ( you PM’d me at 20.45 I replied at 20.57)
Please enlighten me on membership fees? The following link gives information on the different levels of membership and what you get for the money.
http://www.bushcraftuk.net/community/subscriptions.php?
As this is a public group why do we have to pay fees?
I’ve never heard of it called a public group before…It is a private website that is populated by members that are invited to come here. The site costs a lot of money to set up and maintain, thus voluntary fees were introduced to offset that cost.
Who controls all the money paid by members? I control the monies derived from voluntary contributions.
Is this a profit making organisation?
No.
Do you post an annual breakdown?
No.
These are some questions I would like answered before I pay.
No problem.
Adi, Tony.
Is this a difficult question???????????
No not at all, I happened to be in bed, which made it difficult to answer you within those 8 minutes between your posts. Adi is an admin on this site because of his exceptional technical knowledge, his regular presence, his level head and because I trust him. However, the decisions, made on bushcraftUK are my own; thus any future questions that you might have should be directed to me only.
Thanks Adi for the reply,
1. you did not answer the questions I asked?
2. Why do you have a problem with answering what I asked?
3. I did not offer items for sale, items wanted/ items offered.
4. there was no mention of money, you just assumed I was asking for money.
I have now addressed your questions.
No one that was able, had a problem answering your questions.
You are perfectly correct that the assumption was made that you were asking for money. I think that the PM you sent to me alludes to the fact that you were intending on selling items to other members. I include an excerpt for clarification. Quote: ‘I have several items for sale that might interest members’. (colour added!) I think that this explains your intentions.
IF THIS IS NOT THE CASE YOU HAVE MADE THIS FORUM INTO AN ELITIST GROUP? CORRECT ME IF IM WRONG? PLEASE DO? You seem to be alluding to the fact that you could not use the classifieds section to make money for yourself. I am sorry if you feel that it is unfair that ‘I’ do not provide you with a free money making vehicle.
Surely sending pictures to a forum shouldn't cost you money. Another misapprehension…I does not.
Asking these questions and getting the answers should be straightforward
It is very straightforward when the questions are not posed in the early hours of the morning.
Ok, a quick summing up.
You have ‘no’ rights on my website.
If you don’t like it here then go somewhere else.
If you do like it here then you are welcome to use the free facilities available to you.
Conversation closed.
Have a great day
Tony
Creator and owner of this private website.
I know the amount of time and effort that has gone into the setting up of this site.
I thank Tony for clarifying certain things which I wasnt aware of in the above post.
Ultimately you have the choice to pay, it isnt compulsory, and while this may not suit all people all the time if the majority are ok with it then that is a happy medium.
Personally, I dont mind paying £5 a year to see all the happy smiling faces on here. :wink:
Totally agree with Tony.
It isn't free (by a long way) for Tony to provide this facility.
The fact that you can use most of the facilities gratis doesn't mean that Tony shouldn't offer extra for a small fee.
15 notes is a bargain.
jamesdevine
19-08-2004, 12:28
There is an outdoor mag here that I regularly buy. It's not expensive but the subscription is about £35 per year. For this I have no say in what is written and no real opportunity to ask question or give answers to share my experiences with the other readers.
For £15 I can do that here with a few extras as a thank you for helping to keep the site running. For nothing I can still contribute. I have been involved with several website in the passed from profit making organization and some non profit organization the cost is the same same for both. The service providers don't discriminate.
I can understand if someone was a little worried about handing over the hard earned (especially a parent) to someone they have not met (I am unlikely to meet any of the members here anytime soon) but I have gotten the benefits from this community for nearly a year now for nothing thanks to few hard working and generous people :You_Rock_ . I personally have no problem giving something back.
My opinion no one elses.
James
To be honest it's not me that doesn't mind too much about giving money to BCUK it's my parents, and because of that I'm just a little bit miffed that I can't get this newsletter thing.
Don't worry about it matey!
People who can pay get extras, if you can't you don't.
It's a free market thing.....
:naughty:
To be honest it's not me that doesn't mind too much about giving money to BCUK it's my parents, and because of that I'm just a little bit miffed that I can't get this newsletter thing.
I am working on producing a regular email/newsletter. It has never been intended for contributing members only, it will be for all members. That has always been, and is still my intention. Let no one mislead you into thinking otherwise :wink:
I see, that is good news! I saw email/newsletter listed as a benefit for supporting members when i was going through them earlier. Perhaps you should remove it to prevent this confusion in the future?? :?:
Thank you for clearing that up for me :-P
Scott
I can't add much to what Martyn and Tony have said. And said so well! :biggthump
I can only add my own annoyance. I get annoyed at people who always want something for nothing and bitch about it when they don't get it.
For those of you who want something for nothing, I suggest you start your own forum and make up your own newsletter and then provide it for free to anyone who floats in off the internet. Good luck and let me know how that works out, eh? :roll:
So...what's the hidden agenda here? :rant:
I get annoyed at people who always want something for nothing and bitch about it when they don't get it.
What's worse are those who want something for nothing and bitch about it when they get it!
:o):
RovingArcher
19-08-2004, 14:41
Frogo smells a bit trollish if ya ask me.
Just want to publically add my support and thanks for Tony and the folks.
Ok, I may have coughed up the 15 quid membership, but even without that, my view would not be any different. This site fills a HUGE void in the UK and probably the rest of the world where, to my knowledge, there has NEVER been a succesful site dedicated to this 'sport'.
And I'm pretty certain there are MANY sites out there that have tiered membership, each level giving different privelages. Just like an associate of an angling club for example might not be able to take a guest fishing, or may have to pay a higher rate to join a lake run by a works angling club.
There is nothing unique about this.
And having been involved in websites, hosting and such, for work over the past six years, I'm surprised that Tony managed to do it free for us for a year without bankrupting himself and having to sell his wife, kids, house, car...
Tony, Adi, Ed, etc.:You_Rock_ :You_Rock_ :You_Rock_ :You_Rock_ :You_Rock_
Keep up the excellent work. You are very much appreciated by a lot of people!
TheViking
19-08-2004, 15:07
Thanks Adi for the reply,
1. you did not answer the questions I asked?
2. Why do you have a problem with answering what I asked?
3. I did not offer items for sale, items wanted/ items offered.
4. there was no mention of money, you just assumed I was asking for money.
Hi...
I always believe that it's very rare you get closer to your objective by differing from normal, friendly tone! :roll: :wink:
It's okay to discuss, but not argue. :wink: As Martyn pointed out it's not possible for everybody to be here 24-7, but I'm on here a lot, and therefore you and others can always ask.
Cheers :uu: :uu:
Hi...
I always believe that it's very rare you get closer to your objective by differing from normal, friendly tone! :roll: :wink:
It's okay to discuss, but not argue. :wink: As Martyn pointed out it's not possible for everybody to be here 24-7, but I'm on here a lot, and therefore you and others can always ask.
Cheers :uu: :uu:
True, I am on here most days as well although only M-F 9-5, but for things like questions about site admin and 'accounts' I think it best to let those fully qualified, i.e. the Mods - Tony, Adi, etc., those that actually know the real facts behind the site as they are actively involved with the day-to-day answer anything to do with costs and 'users rights'.
We can all be spokespersons for the site, but they have the real answers. We can defend them and their work, but THEY have the facts. Let's not get too self important and assume, that even those of us who post regularly, have paid up or anything else, gives us 'weight' to answer such questions.
Sorry if that's a bit heavy but I've seen how good intentions can create bigger issues, and can seriously p*** off the people who actually run things when others try to imply that are an integral part of the working of companies/clubs/forums etc.
I think that jakunen's post was a general comment that covered the whole thread. There was no intent to single out anyone with his comments. Let's not be pedantic about things, especially things that have been sorted.
I will look into the wording of the subscriptions, I appreciate it being pointed out to me
:biggthump
You guys (and girls) are all great and I appreciate all the support in all it's forms, :You_Rock_ :biggthump
I'm a bit annoyed that because I can't pay because of family issues I won't be able to recieve this.
YB, I think I have just as much right to be a bit annoyed as you, eh? :wave:
TheViking
19-08-2004, 16:45
Hi...
Right now I don't have the money to pay a full membership or a supporting so it has to wait a little bit. :wink: Also has some kit to buy... :-)
To be honest it's not me that doesn't mind too much about giving money to BCUK it's my parents, and because of that I'm just a little bit miffed that I can't get this newsletter thing.
If you want to contribute to the site and are not able to because you dont have a credit card, you could ask Tony if he'd accept a Postal Order. Just a thought. ;)
Do I sense some hostility here? The guy is only asking a question.
As a paying member of a club you, he or I all have the right by law to see how your money is spent. The club treasurer should be able to publish such info at request or it can be presented at a AGM.
Of course as nonmembers or if you simply make a donation you have no say and there for cannot claim.
Thanks Zacary.
It was only a question, not intended on upsetting anyone, well it just goes to show how the mention of money gets everyone on the defensive.
By the way Tony,
Do you take postal orders, as i do not have a credit card.
Thanks
Frogo
The thing is Frogo, if anyone was on the defensive it was because of the offensive manner of the questioning...
The thing is Frogo, if anyone was on the defensive it was because of the offensive manner of the questioning...
Lurch,
A simple question not intended to be offensive, I allways want to know where my money goes, what you are getting.
A painfull question for some.
Frogo
Well put yourself in the administrators shoes and read your posts again, pretending that you have no idea who this individual is asking all these questions.
It seems to me a bit like going to a pub and giving a landlord grief about how he spends his money.
Many people seem to have the idea that just because something is on the net it is public property, I hope perhaps you are a little more informed on the nature of such bulletin boards now.
Lurch,
A simple question not intended to be offensive, I allways want to know where my money goes, what you are getting.
A painfull question for some.
Frogo
What you are getting for your money is clear - access to the trading forums.
Where the money goes is none of your business - if you doubt this, next time you buy a packet of sweets, be sure to demand of the shopkeeper to see his books, before you grace his store with your presence and see what response you get. :roll:
Where the money goes is none of your business - if you doubt this, next time you buy a packet of sweets, be sure to demand of the shopkeeper to see his books, before you grace his store with your presence and see what response you get. :roll:
Kinda what I was trying to say!
Frogo, im sure you didnt mean to be agressive. But to be honest it did look like you were shouting and therefore if one is being agressive, others get defensive, simple.
I earn £88 a month working in a shop due to A levels and therefore cannot afford £15 especially after loosing my woodlore WS (still can believe i did it). I have been here for what feels like ages. I have had endless information, i have made many friends, i have saved a helluva lot of money from other peoples info, and to me £15 doesnt feel enough (but i cant afford anything else right now).
Tony, Adi, and all the others have been nothing but absolutely fair and completely overwhelmingly generous. Perhaps you should sample the forum, see what i'm on about and review your posts.
Cheers,
Jake
Please guys... this has gone on long enough now. Frogo has already stated
A simple question not intended to be offensive
Please remember Frogo is new here and still feeling his way around the etiquete of the forum. We don't need to KEEP reminding him of how his post came accross..... its already posted in the thread..... probably more than once.... people are starting to come accross just as agressive!!!
Please play nicely :-)
Ed
well said ed,this is how cliques form
Very well said. No ill intentions.
BTW Frogo, what part of Cardiff are you in?
Jake,
Was, not any more up near Machen know.
Frogo
Perhaps change your profile Frogo?
Saves confusion eh.