View Full Version : Wilkenson sword woodlore knife!
I dont know if there is already a thread for this.. if there is would someone kindly direct me there!
But i was wondering if anyone has a wilkenson sword woodlore knife.. and even better does anyone have experience of the wilkenson sword and alan wood woodlore knives and how they preform in comparisen to one anoter!!
any views and reviews would be good :)
tenbears10
14-08-2004, 11:28
Have a search for woodlore knife and you will find long threads about both knives.
Martyn has both a WS and an Alan Wood but there were several problems with the new batches of Wilkinson sword Knives when they came out. The first examples were rusty due to being shipped in brand new and not thoroughly dry sheaths.
I think the general verdict is that if you want a woodlore knife now then get a micarta handled one and if you have to have wood handle then wait the 11 months for an alan wood version. Another option is the get an alan wood bushcrafter (there are some pics in the gallery now) which is cheaper, less waiting time and (I think the owners would say) an improvement on the woodlore design.
These are my views and I don't think to speak for everyone here by any means. Like I say the best place to start is a search.
Hope that will help.
Bill
Lemoneyewash
14-08-2004, 12:26
Also, take a look on British Blades at the Bark River North Star.
Well worth a gander!
so why would you advise against the wooden handeled WS knife?
tenbears10
18-08-2004, 22:03
so why would you advise against the wooden handeled WS knife?
I don't have one so it is not from experience but I think there are better options than the WS wooden handled woodlore.
Bill
what would they be.. i dont really know about any other knives..
if you can be bothered could you list a few of the knives avalible of the same standered.. price.. ect
tenbears10
18-08-2004, 22:36
if you can be bothered could you list a few of the knives avalible of the same standered.. price.. ect
Ok
Best woodlore is alan wood's version £195 + 11 month wait.
also alan wood bushcrafter is £150 I think and a bit less wait.
Gene Ingram does lots of designs which are good and £100 will buy most of them all handmade
WS micarta woodlore is £95 and in stock and people have very good things to say about them.
There are lots of scandinavian style knives on British blades most handmade and often good prices.
It comes down to preference and if you really want a woodlore or not. Some people would say there are better knives for less money.
The list is not complete by any means just some ideas.
Bill
sorry if my questions are becoming tedious...
appart from the people who it is made by.. what are the differences between the maple handel WS and the and the alan wood woodlore?
tenbears10
18-08-2004, 23:11
sorry uf my questions are becoming tedious...
appart from the people who it is made by.. what are the differences between the maple handel WS and the and the alan wood woodlore?
I don't mind the questions so carry on.
The main difference is that Alan Wood is the original maker and WS are copying his design (with permission) and although they are making it by hand it is in production quantities by (I assume) several different craftsmen. In theory they are the same knife with the same wood for handles but in practice alan wood has much more to lose from poor workmanship and is therefore more careful to produce a perfect product. Again IMO.
Bill
blooomin eek! i dont know what to go for.. i see what you mean.. but the WS is avalible now and cheeper... tooooo tempting!
do you know any site... for the other knives you mentioned?
Tantalus
18-08-2004, 23:34
British Blades http://www.britishblades.com/ is a mine of information tomtom
while you are there check out the bark river North Star too it looks like being a great success. As far as i know the knives have been made and are waiting for the sheathes. Starting at $105 the price is smashing too
Tant
tenbears10
18-08-2004, 23:39
http://geneingramknives.blademakers.c om/ Gene's new site.
http://www.britishblades.com/forums/index.php? Look in the classifieds at the bottom of the page for scandi's
http://www.britishblades.com/forums...ead.php?p=58655 Martyns original review of his bushcrafter with prices I think.
Thats the main ones I mentioned. Other people will have loads of alternatives to these few and some at much lower prices if you move away from custom knives. There is a big following for Bark River knives on outdoors magazine http://forums.outdoors-magazine.com/ they have a whole section devoted to them.
There are so many ways to spend your money on a good knife. I also encourage you to take a look at Gene Ingram. His work is excellent and his prices are many times lower than production pieces. I have a number of his knives and each one is a delight. This is one of his #6 droppoints with SeaCow scales. I find this an excellent woods knife.
http://img44.exs.cx/img44/1672/IngramSheathRS.jpg
However, the WS and Alan's knifes have a very good following over here. Probably my favorite woods knife was made by Nick Wheeler and handled by Jamie Knowlden. This one is in O-1 with redwood burl scales.
http://img11.exs.cx/img11/8402/OSFDeck.jpg
I recommend you take your time and study the old posts before spending the cash......of course, I never have personally followed that line of thought. :?:
Tomtom I did a review of the woodlore knife back in the uncomplicated early days when Tony first set up BCUK - NOT SURE OF THE LINK ADDRESS - but if you vist reviews then you should find it.
Hope that helps.
Tomtom I did a review of the woodlore knife back in the uncomplicated early days when Tony first set up BCUK - NOT SURE OF THE LINK ADDRESS - but if you vist reviews then you should find it.
Hope that helps.
http://www.bushcraftuk.co.uk/reviews/review_woodlore.html
Cheers Adi - spot on as usual - you part Borg? :shock:
I have a Grohman knife how do these compare? They are popular back home, although I was issued mine while I served in the forces.
Well guys, i can believe its taken me this long to enter the thread.
How easy are the Gene Ingrams to sharpen? And how easy are they to repair in case of a dent? Tomtom, i just lost my WS Micarta (i still cant believe i did it) and when it was around i found it pretty much perfect, it is an excellent woodsmans knife.
For £95 i dont think you can get much better (but i havent sampled Dave Barkers work or any other BB knifemakers, they are said to be excellent). The WS is easy to fix damage on being a single bevel.
I'd recomend you to the WS, but keep in mind that i havent tried the Northstar, Alan Wood, or Gene Ingram
Cheers,
Jake
Just got a replacement WS Woodlore today because the scales on the old one suddenly seemed like they were made of banana wood and became distorted.
The new one is visually flawless and feels heavier than the old one. The scales on this one however don't smell as much of linseed oil as the old one did which may be a black mark against it in the long run, I don't know. Might give it a little soak in some later just to make sure.
We'll see how this goes ...
I have a Grohman knife how do these compare? They are popular back home, although I was issued mine while I served in the forces.
Would that be the boat knife?
They are thought ofg well from what I've read - a little "Nessmukian" in design, but I believe very comfortable to use. The Scandi inspired knives are favoured here though. You might hear a couple of folks say they own a Grohmann boat knife (I bet Hoodoo does :D ), but I dont think there are many. What are your experiences of it?
When did the first one arrive?
When did the first one arrive?
Hmmm ... end of March.
Yep sure is a boat knife although its a little sorry looking these days. My experiences of it are good although as I say I am new to bushcraft and survival but as a infantryman it served me very well.
I have both a Grohman Boat and the Trout & Bird. I like both but have tend to not use them as much as my other choices. They are both stainless sabre ground. I have always wanted an Original #1, now available flat ground and I would probably choose carbon instead of stainless.
The Boat has a very good grip shape...very different from the #1. It is comfortable to use....but for some reason just does not seem to go with me much.
I think the flat ground carbon Grohman would be a very good and economical choice for a woods knife.
I have a Rick Frigault Basadie which has a similar shape to the Grohman #1 and I find it a very good overall size and shape for a canoe trip knife. Mine is part of a pair (the small one is the Chinto). The blade curve like the Grohman #1 makes for super slicing for food prep.
http://********.free.fr/guest/FrigaultGranite2.jpg
How easy are the Gene Ingrams to sharpen? And how easy are they to repair in case of a dent?
All but one of my Ingram's are in D2. I have had no difficulty sharpening them to date, but none has needed an extensive sharpen nor have I had any dents or rolls to work out. Gene delivers them very sharp. Only my #6 has been pushed much in wood working and I have maintained the edge primarily on a Aluminum oxide loaded leather strop with a few Sharpmaker workouts. I cannot really address the long term or hard use characteristics of sharpening them yet. It does seem to be very difficult to roll the edge, and I have not managed to get any chips. Overall, I am very pleased with his edge profile, hardening and temper.
I have a small #4 Wharncliffe Ingram in S30V coming today or tomorrow. This one was purposefully hollow ground with a very thin edge. I will be working that as a test for Gene to see how durable that edge will be.
Cheers Shwert, they sound like good knives, another possibility to add to the list!
Cheers Shwert, they sound like good knives, another possibility to add to the list!
this list jus seems to keep on growing doesnt it...
i was just on this site Colonial Knives (http://www.colonialknives.co.uk/index.php/timg/outdoor_top.jpg/page/outdoor.htm) looking at the Grohman knives.. they all seem to be kits where you must, to a certain extent, build your own knife.. do they come ready finished?.. is it easy to achive an ok level finish if you have no experiance in knife making..??
with out wishing to sound compleatly stupid.. what is macita? :sulk:
tenbears10
20-08-2004, 11:02
with out wishing to sound compleatly stupid.. what is macita? :sulk:
Micarta is an alternative to wood which can be made from linen or cotton I think. It comes in a massive variety of colours and finishes (but so does wood I suppose).
http://www.geocities.com/porchswings/photopage_no3.htm this is beaded micarta which has a finish similar to antler.
http://www.geocities.com/porchswings/mkpage2.htm This is polished which is more like varnished wood.
http://www.geocities.com/porchswings/mkpage8.htm and another type of finish.
I'm sure someone else will explain how micarta is made? I think it's to do with layers :?: quite happy to use it but don't know how it's made exactly.
Bill
thanks bill.. at least i am not the only one in the dark about this mystry material. ;)
Micarta is a layered or laminated synthetic material. It can be made by layering cotton, linnen or even paper in a stack, soaking and impregnating with resin, then compressing, to form a compacted and resin-impregnated cake of layered material. It's extremely tough, hard, it doesnt warp, shrink or deform, it's heat resistant to extremes of temperature, non-slippy, feels warm to the touch, and (due to the layering of material) has a textured finish that is similar in appearance to wood grain when shaped.
Perhaps we should start a poll. What do people prefer, Micarta or wood (of your choice).
I would have to say Micarta. Wood feels to delicate!
Cheers,
Jake
i would have to say would.. every bit bifferent.. every bit beautiful..
Micarta seems like somewhat of a wood substitute, why bother wood is not expensive?
Micarta is a wonder material that can be much more stable than wood. It is a phenolic resin material that is impervious to water, does not crack, feels good, comes in colors and textures....do I prefer it to wood....no.....do I prefer wood to it.....no....depends on the knife and the application.
It was first made in the 30's or so to replace mica in electrical uses. Great material. Jens Anso had some from old NASA stock that aged to a beautiful cream/yellow/brown.
Grohman offers both kit knives and completed knives. Check out this link to an article on finishing one of the kits...my recollection is that the kits are relatively easy to do with good results, but I have never done one.
Old Jimbo did this one:
http://www.oldjimbo.com/survival/grohmann.html
I have a pair of Grohman #3's both stainless which is not my preference but thats another story, one of them modified to flat grind, I keep the flat grind one sharp enough to shave my face but the edge is not very strong at all, for example if I were to carve a spoon with it from a ralatively hard wood like seasoned oak the edge will show signs of buckling before Ive finished, this is despite keeping the edge thoroughly stropped, apart from that theyre nice knives for very reasonable money though the finish is obviously not up there with the customs.
To be fair though, I have a similar problem of edge buckling with a flat grind Helle, for my money convex is becoming my favourite edge geometry, holds an edge really well, can easily be made shaving sharp and rarely needs sharpening anyway!
Jason
Squidders
26-08-2004, 22:05
Ok... this is getting to me... Everyone is taking pot shots at the woodlore knives BUT everyone also uses it as THE benchmark bushcraft knife.
So, i'm after simple hard information... Could someone pick one of the below options to help me out as it seems nobody has really given a concrete reason why they're not that good.
So....
A.) Are they not very good?
B.) Are they not very good compaired to many other knives?
C.) Are they as good as other knives but cost too much to justify owning?
D.) Because they are used by Ray Mears, is there some stigma attached to having one?
Please help!!!
Joe :banghead:
Anything I may say will be taken down and used against me :o):
Let me try to put my view into words for you Squidders ...
Basically, rid your mind that with a knife comes a transplant of skill from the maker or designer. A blade at its most basic is a sharp bit with a blunt bit that you hold. There are cheap knives out there (the Moras or Kellam) and very expensive knives out there.
A.) Are they not very good?
Well, they are OK but considering the price and the fact that they are really just production run blades with either a wood or micarta handle, they are pretty pricey. Thought of that way, they are just blades. For an extra £30 (and a wait) you get an Alan Wood Woodlore with a sheath that holds a firesteel. Alan Wood is a master craftsman that really takes care over blades and makes sure that each and every blade he lets out of the door is spot on, something that really cannot be said for WS.
I'm also slightly jaded having had one for less than 6 months before it had to be replaced.
B.) Are they not very good compaired to many other knives?
There are a LOT of knives out there worth considering that fit the bill - the trick is getting a blade that you are happy with that works. A few I'd recommend you looking at are:
Fallkniven range (especially the F1)
The Kellam range (www.kellamknives.co.uk)
The BRK&T North Star
Allan Blade knives (www.bladecutlery.com )
They are all different - handling and comfort is an important issue. Take your time and see what takes your fancy. Just because a blade works for someone else doesn't mean it works for everyone - remember that the Woodlore was designed by Ray Mears for Ray Mears. Hand sizes and use means that a knife designed for one person might not suit someone else.
Take your time to choose!
C.) Are they as good as other knives but cost too much to justify owning?
Depends of what criteria you are comparing them ... :rolmao:
WOAH! Some question. I think its about time to get it out into the open! Right...I'd say that the woodlore is my benchmark knife (well, it was before i lost it) because its a workhorse, its easy to fix and sharpen. It feels nice when held, looks nice and is also used and designed by Mr Mears which gives me a feeling that i can rely on this knife. I trust Ray Mears when it comes to the outdoors! It is a damn good knife. I also hold other knives in high respect as well. Bark River (http://www.barkriverknifetool.com) make some good knives. I own the mini-canadian and the highland, both are excellent.
I'd say the cost of the woodlore puts it under a lot of scrutiny. If a knife isnt ***completely*** perfect if your paying either £95, £165, £195 then its gonna lose some points. Even if the imperfections are simply cosmetic.
What do others think?
Cheers,
Jake
Posted at the same time. Adi, would you think that the micarta would be a better purchase? Simply because the micarta wouldnt degrade. But still at that price you'd expect the wood not to either in that time.
ok thats some great feedback thank you both for the input.. may i ask a few more things...
ADI007 may i ask what happened to your knife and which Woodlore one was it??
..and Jake which Woodlore knife did you have?
I had the Micarta, it was a solid beast! Really would recomend one. I couldnt foresee anything going wrong with it, it was such a good blade.
BTW Mind blank...how do you spell "recomend"? Have i got it right?
Jake
i would guess re-co-mend *recomend* looks alright to me.. but me being totaly dislexic that probly doesnt count for much...
are you going to get another WS woodlore to replace it? are you going to go for micarta again!
(if dyslexic people have trouble spelling why do they give it such a complicated name... they should have called it fred or something simple like that... ha anyway..)
Posted at the same time. Adi, would you think that the micarta would be a better purchase? Simply because the micarta wouldnt degrade. But still at that price you'd expect the wood not to either in that time.
Depends ... the initial runs of those didn't have a full flat grind. If the quality of the blade is the same as the maple blade, then it should be a better deal.
ADI007 may i ask what happened to your knife and which Woodlore one was it??
It was the maple handled Wilkinson Sword Woodlore. The wood on the handle warped and distorted pretty badly. Yes, the blade was replaced quickly but I'm not confident that it's not going to happen again.
Isnt the Maple hand made by a "wilkinson sword craftsman"?
:lmao: Very good tomtom, its difficult to make me laugh right now. My bank just took all the money from my account leaving me with -£17 because i paid in a cheque from someone else and it cleared and bounced. So will have to wait at least another month. But i will definatly be replacing it, for sure.
Why are you not confident? Should you just ask for your money back?
what garentee did it come with ADI.. i trust you had no problem in exchanging it?
Isnt the Maple hand made by a "wilkinson sword craftsman"?
All I can say is that it is made by Wilkinson Sword ...
well ADI.. if you decide to get rid of it let me know!
Just checked Adi, it is hand made, just not by Alan Wood!
Great Pebble
26-08-2004, 23:19
Hmm, interesting, I've been looking at getting a smaller fixed blade. Something that you could just about wear around a campsite without actually attracting Police attention. The WS version of the woodlore was on my list, but given this and a few other points, I may be looking in the direction of a Falkniven.
Come to think of it, I am going to replace my lost WS with another, but should i go for the Maple or Micarta. Adi, you have had both havent you? Your opinion?
Cheers,
Jake
i have not owned a woodlore but was due an Alan Wood in july so it should arrive next month. i cannot see why people would pay £160 for a factory made version. £35 buys you the confidence that a craftsman has definitely worked on your blade. Each knife marked with the markers names carries his reputation forward. Should it fail the quality of Alans work is open to question therefore he strives to ensure it doesn't fail. Any problems and you know its going to get sorted. I placed an order today for 2 Gene Ingram knives. Another well respected maker. different shape, different material but still excellent knives. Spend time researching different makers and companies know what you really want from a knife. Then buy the best you can afford.
dare i say because i am young and foolish and do not like the idea of an 11 month wait... also i am ment to be saving for my gap year... so every £35 saved is fairly useful
Squidders
27-08-2004, 00:12
The reason i'm having such a problem is that I haven't had 20+ years of experience and I want to buy my first "proper" knife.
Telling me to shop around is too easy, sure, I should shop around and it is good advice but I can't very well pop over to the US and have a look at a Gene Ingram or pop down the shops and see all of the knives, one next to the other and have a fondle.
I'm after good advice, Sure the choices and links let me see photos of the other knives and they have expanded my choices but in the real world... in my hands the choices are confusing.
If I were to ask "what should my first top tier bushcraft knife be?" I would still get a lot of links and makers names. People would ask what I would use it for and how much I wanted to spend and how long I was willing to wait.
So I'm trying to formulate the exact question required (given that the answer is 42 :-) ).
"What should my first top tier knife be for between £150 and £200 to be used for cutting small bits of wood, plant material, cordage and spoon production, given that I have an average hand size of 250mm (pinkie to thumb) and a very strong grip (I climb rocks a lot), that will have a good wooden handle because that's my personal preference, that is robust and will hold a good edge (of any type (convex or otherwise)) and is easy to maintain and will have available, a good quality leather sheath and I want it within 60 days?"
Joe
___________________
Any vague answers will be met with extreme prejudice! :nono:
Great Pebble
27-08-2004, 00:25
What am best knife?
It's difficult, nay impossible, to give a straight answer to the question as that answer is subjective. Based upon your personal preferences. I use a WS Dartmoor (or currently a MOD knife, ahem), a Leatherman Wave and a CQC7 depending on the task in hand. I'd tell you to buy those (probably) and a dozen or more people would say otherwise.
Squidders
27-08-2004, 00:43
I have an MOD knife already :nana:
So, you sucessfully picked my first choice. It's certainly robust enough, I don't think I'll ever break it... I'm after something a tiny bit more subtle.
That's exactly the advice I'm after though, no messing about :You_Rock_
If I take the advice and buy a knife that I end up not getting on with, I'm not going to blame anyone. Your choices are bound to be better formed than mine anyway and I know knives are very personal but I don't have the luxury of trying a load out or even looking at a load in the flesh before buying.
If I were to offer up a short list of knives I have considered, would that help maybe?
Joe
____________
There are no stupid questions... there is only me looking confused :yikes:
Squidders.
Over on British Blades they have a pass around forum so you can do just that. have a look play with a knife get a feel for it before you part with your hard earnt cash. try to get to the next meet up people will be happy to let you look at their blades. Just don't drop them on concrete.
Squidders.
Over on British Blades they have a pass around forum so you can do just that. have a look play with a knife get a feel for it before you part with your hard earnt cash. try to get to the next meet up people will be happy to let you look at their blades. Just don't drop them on concrete.
That's a reasonable piece of advice, as far as the Gene Ingrams are concerned I already own one and have another en route, everyone has thier own ideal and Gene will help you to get the one that suites you best, but that is a personal point of view.
I would say think about what knives you have used before and what you consider to be the good and bad points about them, then try and find a knife with more of the good points in its design than bad, the one that suites you best, then see what the custom guys have to offer.
Allan Blade has recently started to post on this site and his knives are of top notch quality at very good prices from what I have seen of them.
Because I have already ordered from Gene (who's knives are also of very high quality and good value for money), I can tell you that he will give you a choice of steels and if you wish for modifications to the blade design of a specific model and sheath he will do his best to accomodate.
There have already been threads as to what type of steel would be best and this could help you in making a decision on this, but the actual design of the blade, length, width, shape and grind will very much be your decision. British Blades has a lot on what is the best type of grind on a blade this will also help to a degree.
Your next choice is handmade or high end production model.
The General
27-08-2004, 01:08
The BRK&T North Star.
Squidders
27-08-2004, 01:14
Thanks Leon, I have e-mailed Gene about more information on the drop point #6, I hope to get a reply over the next few days... It's looking like a contender. I'm steering for more of a hand made blade than production.
The General, I'm going to have a hunt for what a BRK&T actually is :wink:
The General
27-08-2004, 01:48
http://barkriverknifetool.com/
Though it must be said the website is rather out of date and does not reflect the currect product line very well.
http://www.britishblades.com/forums/showthread.php?t=4859
This is the North Star in action.
Squidders
27-08-2004, 02:09
Thanks for the links... By all acounts it's a damn good knife but I don't think it's the one for me. I also had a good look at the range on the site and couldn't really see anything that stood out and made me think wow.
I have narrowed it down to:
The WS woodlore knife with wooden handle
The Gene Ingram #6 DROP POINT
The Alan Wood Outdare Series: Classic Model
It all depends on if Gene or Alan get back to me from my e-mails and the delivery time.
I'm one of those people who take a roll of photos, wait six months and then get them developed on a 1 hour service :?:
However, once I have one, I may order a completely custom one and wait to get a knife with all the qualities I find I need from the shortcomings of the one I get this time around.
I'm in such a hurry because the MOD one and the other survival/combat knives I have are really not helping me at all at the moment.
Thanks for the straight talk! It's REALLY appreciated :notworthy
i would be very suprized in Gene didn't reply almost immediately. Both gene and Alan are great communicators. I ordered my Ingram yesterday the delivery date will be 21 Jan. Its a wile to wait but your getting a quality item
James Watson
27-08-2004, 07:38
(if dyslexic people have trouble spelling why do they give it such a complicated name... they should have called it fred or something simple like that... ha anyway..)
I realised I was dyslexic when I went to a toga party dressed as a goat :-P
I realised I was dyslexic when I went to a toga party dressed as a goat :-P
And proceeded to sell your soul to Santa...
D.) Because they are used by Ray Mears, is there some stigma attached to having one?
Stigma?
Nah. Only if you are some kind of reverse snob, in which case your opinion doesn't matter! :o):
Personally I am double plus excited about the prospect of receiving my North Star! :biggthump
Squidders
27-08-2004, 12:04
And proceeded to sell your soul to Santa...
I used to lay in bed all night, unable to sleep, wondering if there was a dog.
I used to have a dyslexic friend who wanted to be a pimp... he bought a warehouse.
Squidders
27-08-2004, 12:10
Stigma?
Nah. Only if you are some kind of reverse snob, in which case your opinion doesn't matter! :o):
Personally I am double plus excited about the prospect of receiving my North Star! :biggthump
Well some people can want to be that little more elite, obviously all the newbe muppets like me watch telly, want a good knife and it's a nice looking blade... And hey, Ray Mears uses it... so it's a case of "oh, EVERYONE's got one"... it's the same as everyone where I live has either a :censored: BMW or Audi... I didn't want to be another carbon copy, German car owning toff so I bought a nice unreliable Jaguar instead :roll:
My dad's bigger than your dad!
Squidders
27-08-2004, 12:44
Never forget that you're unique... just like everyone else :naughty:
What about the Alan Wood bushcrafter, anyone got one of these? Links? Perhaps people could recomend me to one of these instead?
Cheers,
Jake
I'm still trying to figure out what's Elite about a simple piece of GFS, with a simple grind and 2 pieces of wood stuck to the sides :?:
It's the simplicity that makes it work though, I guess?
does anyone have the links.. prices.. and estimated dilivery time for the BRK&T North Star?
Squidders
27-08-2004, 14:33
It all depends what you're into... I'm sure that in nitting circles, some needles are shunned... It's like a football team that gets so popular that nobody likes it.
We do love our underdogs!
The plucky little guy facing the giants.
does anyone have the links.. prices.. and estimated dilivery time for the BRK&T North Star?
http://www.britishblades.com/forums/forumdisplay.php?f=36
http://www.britishblades.com/forums/forumdisplay.php?f=36
is this where you order them? there seems to be a lot of info there
In that forum there is a thread titled "North Star Order List" - that's where you order them.
Here...
http://www.britishblades.com/forums/showthread.php?t=4895
Here are the options available...
http://www.britishblades.com/forums/showpost.php?p=64925&postcount=4
Lemoneyewash
27-08-2004, 18:49
What about the Alan Wood bushcrafter, anyone got one of these? Links? Perhaps people could recomend me to one of these instead?
I think Martyns modesty has got the better of him.... :wink:
Rec'd a 'Bushcrafter' yesterday (mine has green canvas Micarta and brass pins). Had zero chance to put through its paces but it is a VERY impressive package. Plenty of weight and a 'beefy' feel to it, which I like and looks like it will be very easy to work with. For a much better description see: http://www.britishblades.com/forums/showthread.php?t=4350
In comparison to my Fallkniven F1 (never fancied the Woodlore/WS version) it's significantly heavier (7 oz against 5.5 oz on cr*p kitchen scales) with very slightly more drop, by eye about 1.5mm, on the belly. The drop profile to the point is virtually, again by eye, identical to the F1. Handle fit for my 'hamshank' mitts is superb and, even though I've only been playing with it so far, I know it will be very, very comfortable. Much more so than the F1 which I have loved (errr....in a manly rufty tufty kinda way of course :shock: ).
Alan can be emailed at: a.wood@knives.freeserve.co.uk
Having said that, I've also a North Star (to quote a fellow BB member "...almost a custom...") on order and I'm JUST as excited about getting my grubby paws on that (with 'Super' curly birch and mosaics :-) ) and at virtually half the price of the BB Bushcrafter but only a fraction more than a production F1 :yikes: .
Maybe you could wait a couple more weeks or so and look for the reports and comparisons on BB which are sure to appear?
I WANNA! Thats the one for me! How long is the wait?
Cheers,
Jake
Lemoneyewash
27-08-2004, 21:44
Jake, the BB Bushcrafter or the North Star?
seems like a funny way to distribute knives.. through a forum.. is there no where you can see the different handle materials? who is the UK deal for BEK&T? do they have a web site?
The General
28-08-2004, 00:21
Read my last post... :wink:
i read it.. i only seem to be able to find pictures of the Micarta handled ones
[QUOTE=Jake Rollnick]Isnt the Maple hand made by a "wilkinson sword craftsman"?QUOTE]
As I said, in my mind it is made my Wilkinson Sword. How much craft goes into them is debatable. Two examples:
- Full flat grind. The blades are described as having a full-flat grind yet both I've had didn't - the edge was slightly concave. So what I hear you say. Well, you see, a full flat is a harder edge to put on a production knife (this might gove you an insight into why you see so much convex, concave and secondary bevels out there). However, you would have thought that a knife described as having a single bevel would indeed come with just such an edge. OK, some time on a sharpening stone fixes is but why am I having to act as the craftsman to get the edge I paid for?
- Handle. As I've said, I've had one failure and I'm not hugely convinced that the problem isn't going to happen again. Again, I've had cheper knives with wooden handles not made by "craftsmen" that didn't do this.
My personal opinion is that this knife is popular largely because of marketing rather than quality and function. The fact that is can be made fast is the key - it satisfies our desire to have something and have it quick.
Why are you not confident? Should you just ask for your money back?
Simple - the old handle really had a strong smell of linseed oil (even after months of use) whereas the handles on this one feels dryer and doesn't have that smell.
I'm not asking for my money back for a variety of reasons ... one is that I like the feel of the handle but also it's not my only knife (I have plenty more!) and I'm happy to play the warranty game till either I get a good one or I get someone to replace the scales with something better.
ADI, from what you have said it sounds more along the lines that the process of sealing the wooden handle after sanding wasn't done properly :shock:
it may be that they have changed oils, Adi. . but if it feels drier then it might still mean that it hasn't been oiled enough
you could buy some woodfinishing oil from Axminster and leave the handle soaking in it ... my boxwood sculpting tools are soaked in oil for a month,when new, and warmed on a daily basis while they are wrapped up in oiled cloth, before they ever see use.
while your at it . take a look at their wood turning blocks for some ideas if you ever want it rehandled
Tantalus
28-08-2004, 10:30
seems like a funny way to distribute knives.. through a forum.. is there no where you can see the different handle materials? who is the UK deal for BRK&T? do they have a web site?
Actually it is something I find very interesting in this computer age
Feedback and comments can easily and publicly be exchanged allowing customers the chance to ask for what they really want instead of what the manufacturers want to produce
The manufacturer can take pre orders giving them some idea of the demand before building starts
And in the case of smaller manufacturers this money can be spent producing instead of the manufacturer having to lay out huge amounts of time and cash, the return of which they will not see until the product is finished and shipped - this can be critical for smaller manufacturers
Contrast this with some of the bigger producers (no i wont name names) whose exports are controlled by the bricks and mortar dealers enabling them to double prices for no real reason than personal greed
Or those companies who sell products amid a fanfare of hype and "big names"" only to find their own quality control has goofed leading to mass recalls and customer dissatisfaction, i gotta ask if that was really worth it just for a famous name?
Yes it requires a leap of faith to pay for a knife that hasnt actually been produced or is still being produced
But having said that i regularly buy stuff on ebay too without actually seeing it before it arrives
A little homework and research into what it is I am looking at and where it is from has so far saved me any major grief
BRK&T does indeed have a website http://www.barkriverknifetool.com/index.html
and Joe at outdoor supplies http://outdoorsuppliesuk.com/ is someone who i have dealt with personally and found to have some of the best prices in the UK and very reliable
Just want to say this is starting to sound like an advert , I have nothing to do with either company apart from being a customer
I guess if you want to see the North Star before you buy (which is quite within your rights) there are 2 options
1 Wait for it to arrive at a bricks and mortar store and pay their overheads included in the price they will charge
2 Wait for a friend or fellow bushcrafter to lend you theirs
Hope this helps
Tant
it may be that they have changed oils, Adi. . but if it feels drier then it might still mean that it hasn't been oiled enough
you could buy some woodfinishing oil from Axminster and leave the handle soaking in it ... my boxwood sculpting tools are soaked in oil for a month,when new, and warmed on a daily basis while they are wrapped up in oiled cloth, before they ever see use.
while your at it . take a look at their wood turning blocks for some ideas if you ever want it rehandled
Or I could knock the scales off, bead blast it and wrap the handle in paracord!
bushwacker bob
28-08-2004, 17:57
Or I could knock the scales off, bead blast it and wrap the handle in paracord!
:yikes: :yikes: :yikes: :yikes: :yikes:
The General
28-08-2004, 18:54
No comment... :wink: :You_Rock_
Lemonywash, i want the Alan wood bushcrafter.
Adi, i fell for that one!
Cheers,
Jake
Or I could knock the scales off, bead blast it and wrap the handle in paracord!
Oh you're too funny Adi. :roll: :o):
If you do, dont tell anyone - it can cause all sorts of problems (http://www.britishblades.com/forums/showthread.php?t=4433). :D :D :D
seems like a funny way to distribute knives.. through a forum.. is there no where you can see the different handle materials? who is the UK deal for BEK&T? do they have a web site?
The pictures are limited to those you have seen. The reason is the knives have not reached the customers yet. Aside from a couple of prototypes, those are pictures of the first North Stars ever to be made.
Joe Echols from Outdoor supplies is the sole UK dealer for BRK&T knives. He is the one selling them on britishblades.
While ODS and BRK&T have no financial arrangement with me whatsoever, Britishblades is my website and I promise you, if i had any reason to doubt the legitimacy of this arrangement, I absolutely would not permit it.
Thanks for the info Martyn.. i really like the look of the north star.. but number one i do not have paypal.. number two i would like to see a picture of the handle i would like (which would most likly be maple).
when you say "knives have not reached the customers yet" does that mean they are simply in transit.. or are they not readly avalible yet.. what stage of compleation are they in... are they being made to order?
The General
29-08-2004, 00:30
The knives will ship in the next 2 weeks or so. Bark River is one of those companies with such a loyal customer base that the first couple of runs of any new line are almost instantly spoken for. Mike and the crew are often months sold out on knives. It is a credit that they care so much for the end line user. However this can be something of a culture shock to us Brits who are used to immediate delivery or companies like W/Sword.
It is the nature of the almost unique relationship between customers and manufacturer that created such an enviroment. I think this is something good, but patience is the key. There will be oppertunities to get a North Star quite soon, but don't hand about. If you visit Knifeforums.com or Britishblades.com you will see plenty of pics of handle choices, woods and blades. Just have a look.
Thanks for the info Martyn.. i really like the look of the north star.. but number one i do not have paypal.. number two i would like to see a picture of the handle i would like (which would most likly be maple).
when you say "knives have not reached the customers yet" does that mean they are simply in transit.. or are they not readly avalible yet.. what stage of compleation are they in... are they being made to order?
The pictures in this thread...
http://www.britishblades.com/forums/showthread.php?t=5120&page=2
...are the most current and up to date pictures of the North Star first ever production run. A few have been finished, most are at varying stages of completion. When the run is completed, the knives will be sent out to Joe for distribution to those that have ordered them. These will be the first North Stars to reach customers hands.
If you want to see pictures of completed knives, you'll have to wait untill those knives (currently under construction) get out to those of us that have ordered them. You will then have to wait untill a second production run is done, later in the year, before being able to place an order for one - or if you are lucky, you might find Joe has a couple of extra's.
TomTom, you have to understand that the North Star came into being from discussions on forums like these. They are not large scale production knives. If you want one, you'll have to take a leap of faith with the handle - find a way of paying for it (try asking Joe if he'll accept a postal order). If you dont want to do all this, that's your choice - but you'll have to buy something else. Sorry, but that's just the way it is.
thanks for the information.. i know you guys have faith.. but it does seem (to anyone who is not a member of the british blades inner circle) like a very complex way of doing it
The General
29-08-2004, 00:49
If its easy... is it worth doing? :wink: :-)
okok but i am weak and like easy stuff :o): i just want it now!!! :-)
thanks for the information.. i know you guys have faith.. but it does seem (to anyone who is not a member of the british blades inner circle) like a very complex way of doing it
I understand your caution.
But, imagine you are one man with a workshop and half a dozen blokes working for you. Now if you have a few hundred thousand pounds to throw away, you could take a year, make a 100 knives in every concievable handle material and then hope someone would like them and buy them. Then you could pay your mortgage, pay your blokes thier salaries and finally put some food on the table.
Or if you are less finacially flush and a little more sensible, you could ask what people want and make them to order.
800 knives at an avearge of £100 each is £80,000 woth of sticking your neck out. We are not talking about Wilkinson Sword here, but about a small company making knives that are very nearly to customers specs. It isn't perfect, but it's all you're gonna get. If it freaks you out, buy something else - it's your money bud. :wink:
isn't the point of bushcraft slowing down working within natural cycles. i kind of like the idea of waiting for my knife to be made. its sort of organic.
Although i waiting to get myself a North star sometime in the future.
ok thank you everone for sharing you knolage and experience.. i have one other question..
for YOU is it a knife with a Bevel or a knife with out.. (and if you have more than one, then which if you prefered... :wink: )
The General
29-08-2004, 02:42
Full convex with no bevel for ultimate performance.
Flat ground with a single bevel otherwise.
This is based upon what I use a knife for YMMV
could you put that in to laymans speach for those us not totaly clued up on the knife lingo...
http://www.mhcable.com/~yocraft/sosak/grinds.gif
think the one on the right is what Wayne is referring to as full convex ... and the single bevel flat grind is like you would grind a plane iron , just one flat bevelled surface with no second angle
more about convex grinds here
http://www.mhcable.com/~yocraft/sosak/convex.htm
Burnt Ash
29-08-2004, 16:13
i cannot see why people would pay £160 for a factory made version. £35 buys you the confidence that a craftsman has definitely worked on your blade.
So who, do you suppose, makes 'factory' knives? Chimpanzees? I'm darned sure that many factory knifemakers are very fine craftsmen.
Let's be very clear about one thing: the Ray Mears/Alan Wood 'Woodlore' knife is an excellent design for its intended purpose. It isn't the best skinner in the world; it isn't the best fine slicer in the world. It is a good, tough, straight -fairly pointy- outdoors knife that will perform a range of 'bushcraft' tasks well or adequately. Its particular strengths lie in the sort of whittling and green wood working required for bushcraft/survival purposes. I own one and I like it a lot.
Let's be very clear about another thing: the 'Woodlore' knife is a simple knife. It is made of a simple relatively inexpensive and well-understood tool steel; it has a simple, single-bevel grind (no swedges; fullers, etc., etc.). It has a simple, untapered full-tang. The handle is simple, comprising timber scales (a relatively inexpensive and easily worked timber, at that). The knife does not involve file work; bolsters; pommels; engraving, or any of the other fancy stuff that adds work time and/or tests the workmanship of the maker. In short, a knife as simple as the 'Woodlore' should be easily within the capability of any halfway competent journeyman stock removal knifemaker ...or commercial cutlery factory worth its salt.
All things being equal, the price should reflect these things.
Burnt Ash
I think you got it right there. Its a workhorse.
Sometimes, you are paying for a name ... :roll:
it is to knives, what a vovlo estate is to family cars :lol:
Adi, you must agree its a great knife though?
Adi, you must agree its a great knife though?
Yes, I won't dispute that it's a good knife that does a good job at outdoor tasks ... however, for the price and compared to the price of the handcrafted knife that it is based on, I'd expect better and/or cheaper. See, in my mind the price is a trade-off - if there was only a one week waiting list on the Alan Wood Woodlore, ask yourself yould you be happy with paying £30 less for the WS knife or would you pay the £30 extra and get the AW Woodlore if the waiting time was a week? What about a month? Six months? See, the WS Woodlore is priced such that it can scoop in all bar £30 quid less than the asking price of an AW Woodlore simply because it is available quickly. And add to that you get a sheath that is less versatile and no firesteel ...
Can you make a cheap, high quality knife cheaply? Well, I've not seen it yet but the BRK&T North Star looks like it is.
So, why is the WS Woodlore the price it is ... ? Partly availability but mostly paying for a name.
Hmmm, i suppose so. It was the AW woodlore that came out before the WS Woodlores. I think the knife i got was a great one, the problem could be the inconsistency within the knives produced (like my first one that i sent back).
i just dont see how the maple can cost £70 more, am i over looking something major in the manufacture?
i am sure most of us have but for anyone who hasnt this is interesting http://www.bushcraftuk.net/community/showthread.php?t=666
Lemoneyewash
30-08-2004, 09:36
Can you make a cheap, high quality knife cheaply? Well, I've not seen it yet but the BRK&T North Star looks like it is.
So, why is the WS Woodlore the price it is ... ? Partly availability but mostly paying for a name.
Definitely yes and MOST definitely yes!! :wink:
tenbears10
30-08-2004, 11:29
i just dont see how the maple can cost £70 more, am i over looking something major in the manufacture?
The maple handled ws is handmade but the micarta is machine made. I think that is the £70 difference you mean?
Some people would say £95 is a lot for a machine made knife but then Dave and Jake (amongst others) have said how pleased they are with their micarta ones and it is half the price of the custom knife of exactly the same design. For the less expert knife owners amongst us (I count myself) then can you really tell the difference between a micarta and a maple ws woodlore? I'm talking IN USE not cosmetically but when you've had it a few years and it's a bit worn in will the different maunfacture still be obviuos? I don't include alan's woodlore in the comparison because a handmade custom knife is a different kettle of fish.
Why do WS not put the makers initials on the maple hadled blades like they do at Gransfors? You are a lot less inclined the send out a blade which is not perfect if it has your name on it for all to see.
Bill
The maple handled ws is handmade but the micarta is machine made. I think that is the £70 difference you mean?
Having seen both, I can't see a difference between the micarta or maple handled knives - apart from the handle! The fit and finish of both now seems identical. Even the sheaths are, to my eye, identical.
For the less expert knife owners amongst us (I count myself) then can you really tell the difference between a micarta and a maple ws woodlore?
Apart from the weight, there is no difference.
Why do WS not put the makers initials on the maple hadled blades like they do at Gransfors? You are a lot less inclined the send out a blade which is not perfect if it has your name on it for all to see.
Excellent idea!
Why do WS not put the makers initials on the maple hadled blades like they do at Gransfors? You are a lot less inclined the send out a blade which is not perfect if it has your name on it for all to see.
Bill, you should write to WS! Thats a great idea.
Cheers,
Jake