View Full Version : Wild Hogs in the UK?
RovingArcher
13-08-2004, 16:55
In the invasive plants thread, there was some talk of hogs and the possibility that they have gotten loose in some areas and are breeding. I was wondering what your thoughts are on them. Do you think it's a good idea to let them reintroduce themselves or are you against reintroduction, whether it's by deliberate action or unavoidable accident?
They can be dangerous and are a very smart adversary when hunting them. I havn't heard of anyone just out walking around being attacked by a wild hog, but I suppose that it could happen. Especially with the old boars and wet sows with piglets in tow. However, I have watched as a hunter made his way down a narrow trail in very heavy brush and then a large boar charge once the hunter had passed it's possition and had his back to the animal. Very much like the animal purposely waited in order to ambush the hunter. I've heard stories of this happening a lot over the years.
Hunting them is a real blast. Especially with bow and arrow. There is an element of danger that gets the instincts supercharged and the heart pounding, that's for sure. Their meat varies in how palatable it is by age and sex of the animal and what they've been eating. Overall though, they are very tasty, but I have eaten older and very large boar that had a sour taste to the meat. Myself, I prefer hogs in the 100-150 pound range because they are easier to pack out and the meat has a much better flavor.
When hunting them with bow and arrow, the animal must present a quartering away shot, especially on boars, because of the gristle shield that they have just behind the shoulder and that extends back to effectively cover their chest area and protect them from the razor sharp tusks of other boar as they fight. With the animal quartering away, the arrow can be placed low and far enough back to avoid the shield and get the cutting head into the vitals for a quick and efficient kill.
There are those that hunt hogs with dogs and knives. They use the dogs to corner and hold the hog at bay so that the hunter can reach in with a razor sharp and large blade to cut the animals throat. It's actually a very effective way to dispatch the animal, as they bleed out in a relatively short time, lay down, go to sleep and die. However, because the dogs take a real beating and can get cut up badly from the tusks, I'm not one for using them.
The majority of hog hunters in the area where I live use handguns to hunt them. The Ruger Blackhawk or Redhawk in .44 magnum are the prefered sidearm for hogs and they do a respectable job at dispatching the animal. Anything smaller, unless you know where to place the round, can be disastrous for the hunter and the hog.
My hunting partner uses a 7mm rifle with scope to hunt them and all of his shots have been placed behind the ear of the animal. They drop immediately and there is no meat damage. Of course, he's been hunting them for 50 years and knows pretty much all there is to know about the animal.
Environmentally they do as most animals do and help to spread seeds of plants in their spore and may well help to keep unwanted types of plants in check, but for the most part, they are very destructive animals. Especially if they get into horse pasture, well cared for gardens, etc. and start their rooting. They can leave deep holes that a horse can step into and because they roam in family groups, they can root up a large area of well trimmed turf in a very short time.
In this photo is a hog track that is hard to make out, but laying to the left of the track is my leatherman tool and the track is as large as the tool. This was made by a big hog and was in an area where many women and children walk and hike.
http://img27.exs.cx/img27/8080/hike001q.jpg
Wild Boar in UK (http://www.bbc.co.uk/southerncounties/community/boar/main.shtml)
The link above is to a UK story relating to wild boar populations in the UK. In the article it is suggested that up to a thousand may be running wild. This may well be a high estimate. See DEFRA's (http://www.defra.gov.uk/wildlife-countryside/vertebrates/wild-boar.htm) item.
It is pretty much confirmed that the genie is out of the bottle.
Is it a good thing?
I think yes, but then I'm not likely to encounter one in the lakeland woodland in the near future. I reckon the possiblility of running in to something big enough to do you harm is a humbling influence.
woodsitter
13-08-2004, 19:49
In Holland (where I live) we have plenty of boar in the forrested area's. And because, as you know, nature doesn't realy get a lot of space over here, man-boar encounters are quite common. Most of these encounters end when the pigs head for the underbrush. Others end quite deadly, usually for the boar, sometimes for the humans. Car accidents are the biggest thread boar presents to humans.
I can't recall a single incident in with people got attacked by boars and /or got injured. The boars are smart, they stay out of the way and avoit any contact. Most people here have never seen one or are even aware they are arround.
Alot of wild boar in the UK are on private land and unlikely to come into contact with the public..... which is a good thing as I've seen the mess one made of a police car door when they were trying to shoot it!!!
Most of the boar hunting RovingArcher talks about is illegal in the UK.... we have very strict laws. In the UK they are more likely to become one of those quaint attractions in an area rather than a problem.... if their population gets too big they will be dealt with.
Ed
James Watson
13-08-2004, 20:59
I have a vague memory of reading that hunting wild boar with a bow is legal in the UK. There seems to be a loop hole. Is that true? Also I heard that you can legally hunt fish with bows and spears. :?:
James
RovingArcher
13-08-2004, 21:03
I apologize if my chit chat about things over here are putting the site and people in any sort of bad light. Just though others that can't experience this first hand might be interested in reading a little about it. If you'd prefer, I can refrain from posting things that are illegal in the UK. I surely don't want to offend, or get anyone in any kind of bind.
As far as I am aware, hunting with bows is illegal period. The prohibition would have been post boar eradication and so there would not be an exemption. Any previous allowance for boar hunting would be impliedly repealed.
Just a thought for Ed:
Deer populations have exploded in the south of the country (all things being relative!) many RTA's are deer collisions and a lot of deaths have occured. Yet the deer population is not being dealt with particularly strongly, I'd be suprised if things proved different for boar. The exception to this of course would be if a child was attacked, in which case Blunkett would immediately require boar to have ID cards and electronic tagging!
I apologize if my chit chat about things over here are putting the site and people in any sort of bad light.
Don't appologise, no problem.... just reminding people of the law..... we get loads of pm's asking about bow hunting... people reading these posts seem to think you can do it in the UK so I'm just pointing out you can't.
Just though others that can't experience this first hand might be interested in reading a little about it. If you'd prefer, I can refrain from posting things that are illegal in the UK. I surely don't want to offend, or get anyone in any kind of bind.
You are not offending anyone. I for one love reading your posts about hunting. Please don't stop....
:-)
Ed
RovingArcher
13-08-2004, 22:15
Ed, thanks for that. As you probably already know, I really enjoy talking the hunt. :shock: :lol:
tenbears10
13-08-2004, 23:12
I have a vague memory of reading that hunting wild boar with a bow is legal in the UK. James
You have to be careful, as far as I know any bow hunting is illegal in the UK. But there are always old laws which are quoted and may have applied in the past. I am not sure of the legality of bow hunting. However I read in shooting times a couple of months ago about the boar problem in southern england. It is bad in Kent and Sussex but what the article mainly focused on was the difficulty of killing a boar even with a large caliber rifle. The best method is to hunt in a pair and one person carry a shotgun with slug cartridges so if the rifle fails to kill the boar then the second person has a chance. The main danger being a boar will charge when wounded and will kill you more times than not. As RA said their body is designed to stop penetration by a sharp tusk on the end of a 600 kilogram boar, a bullet will stopped by this as well sometimes.
Bill
RovingArcher
14-08-2004, 05:27
Bill, you are absolutely right about the shield possibly stopping a round from penetrating completely. Especially on a big boar. However, I've also seen a round fired from a 30-06 pass completely through a big boar, so you never know. You are also correct that a wounded boar will charge and are quite dangerous at this time. I mean, I'd be a tad upset if someone put a hole in me too. :shock:
The recommendation to have a backup shooter might be a good one too if they are concerned that the primary shooter could be injured or killed if they miss. Me, I run for the nearest climbable tree if they charge.:lol:
The key to any clean and efficient kill is shot placement. That means the shooter needs an abundance of patience so he/she can wait out the shot until the perfect shot opportunity is offered. Well, that and a sharp shooting eye. :wink:
TheViking
14-08-2004, 07:36
Hi...
Check this out!!!
http://users.skynet.be/fa011459/lion.wmv
Though this is a lion it is worth watching.
Les Marshall
14-08-2004, 21:03
I work at a police custody centre and have just asked the duty sergeant about the legality of shooting game with a bow. He says that as long as you have the permission of the land owner, and that the prey is not a protected species there should be no problem.
Personally, I like the idea of the boar returning back to England. My dream is to see the wolf return to our countryside, does anyone else agree? Bearing in mind the uninformed bad press the poor wolf has had. :Thinkingo
Tantalus
14-08-2004, 21:42
yeah i too am happy to hear of wild boar in the uk
personally i believe they will help our natural woodland regenerate whic is a good thing as i see it
poor wolves have a very bad press IMHO as well. Having met half a dozen wild wolves in israel when i found myself surrounded by them, my only impressions were amazement and awe. All they wanted was water , so i wandered VERY timidly to the water tap for the irrigation and ran a puddle onto the ground for them. Watching them disappear silently into the desert is a memory i will treasure.
sure they eat cute little animals but wait a minute...... isnt h.sapiens a much more destructive and terrifying species?
wolves really are shy creatures rarely seen by humans
oh and while i am on "re-introducing" please dont suggest the beaver
yeah beaver dams are cool but to have witnessed the damage these things did in bavaria, felling trees and flooding fields they really were a nuisance
hahahaha and you are more likely to get a bite from getting too close to a beaver than a wolf or a boar
:soapbox: finished...........for now ;)
Tant
Les Marshall
14-08-2004, 21:49
Tantalus, my sentiments exactly! :35:
I work at a police custody centre and have just asked the duty sergeant about the legality of shooting game with a bow. He says that as long as you have the permission of the land owner, and that the prey is not a protected species there should be no problem.
Except for the fact it is illegal to hunt with a long bow in the uk...... if you want more infomation I suggest you contact the british long bow society. I think they'll be able to give you details.
http://www.askarts.co.uk/longbow.html
Ed
Actually, just found it myself....
Section 11 of the Wildlife & Countryside Act 1981 prohibits the use of self-locking snares, bows, explosives or use of live mammals or birds as decoys, for capture and killing of any wild animal.
I wish police men would not offer legal advice.... if you want legal advice ask a solicitor ;-)
Ed
Les Marshall
15-08-2004, 18:03
Not wanting to mislead anyone, I have looked up section11 and have copied it here:
Section 11 of the Wildlife and Countryside Act 1981 as amended by Schedule 12 of the Countryside and Rights of Way Act 2000 create the offences of setting self-locking snares and snares that cause bodily injury to any wild animals that come into contact with them, or using bows, crossbows or explosives to kill or capture them; using as decoys any live mammal or bird or knowingly cause or permit any of these offences to be carried out, and failing to inspect snares which have been set on a daily basis. It states:-
11(1) Subject to the provisions of this Part, if any person:-
(a) sets in position any self-locking snare which is of such a nature and so placed as to be calculated to cause bodily injury to any wild animal coming into contact therewith;
(b) uses for the purpose of killing or taking any wild animal any self-locking snare, whether or not of such a nature or so placed as aforesaid, any bow or crossbow or any explosive other than ammunition for a firearm;
(c) uses as a decoy, for the purpose of killing or taking any wild animal, any live mammal or bird whatever; or
(d) knowingly causes or permits to be done an act which is mentioned in the foregoing provisions of this subsection,
he shall be guilty of an offence.
11(3) Subject to the provisions of this Part, if any person:-
(a) sets in position or knowingly causes or permits to be set in position any snare which is of such a nature and so placed as to be calculated to cause bodily injury to any wild animal coming into contact therewith; and
(b) while the snare remains in position fails, without reasonable excuse, to inspect it, or cause it to be inspected, at least once every day,
he shall be guilty of an offence.
11(4) The Secretary of State may, for the purpose of complying with an international obligation, by order, either generally or in relation to any kind of wild animal specified in the order, amend subsection (1) by adding any method of killing or taking wild animals or by omitting any such method as is mentioned in that subsection.
11(5) In any proceedings for an offence under subsection (1)(b) or (c) and in any proceedings for an offence under subsection (1)(d) relating to an act which is mentioned in any of those paragraphs, the animal in question shall be presumed to have been a wild animal unless the contrary is shown.
Les Marshall
15-08-2004, 18:07
I ran out of room on my last input, sorry if my advice has mislead anyone, that is why I thought I would support Ed's advice by copying the act reference to clear the matter up. :notworthy
Cheers Les, Thanks for posting that.... Now just remember where its been posted for the next time someone asks ;-) .... it will happen
Ed
Me, I run for the nearest climbable tree if they charge.:lol:
Erm, RA, have you seen the speed those things can achieve? Myself and Womble have adopted some Kuni-Kuni, and they have a surprising turn of speed. There were reports from the middle ages of a hunt in the Black Forest IIRC, where a number of pages were killed during a hunt and a sow was injured protecting her litter. They pages ran for trees and got litteraly run down and gored to death....
Personally I'm PRO boar, and wolf.
IIRC they did try introducing wolves to one of the Sottish islands. They swam to the mainland, were captured and returned to the island, swam to the mainland, were captured... after a few relocations I think they gave up and sent them to a country estate somewhere, Longleat?
RovingArcher
16-08-2004, 15:53
Jakunen, Oh yeah, The run for a tree was expressed more tongue in cheek than anything else. However, one of the tips I learned early is that while stalking with a bow, I should have a ready escape route by keeping a tree close that is easily climbed. :wink:
I've witnessed many hogs running full out. Boar get up to speed quickly and can easily run a man down when traveling straight line. However, and this is from visual experience only, as I've never studied this, but hogs seem to have trouble making hard/sharp turns while running full out. It seems that they make sweeping turns or stop their charge and then adjust to the new line and start their charge again, or lose interest and go about their business. Perhaps someone else can chime in that has more experience or better knowledge on this and help us out here.
Not wanting to mislead anyone, I have looked up section11 and have copied it here:
Section 11 of the Wildlife and Countryside Act 1981 as amended by Schedule 12 of the Countryside and Rights of Way Act 2000 create the offences of setting self-locking snares and snares that cause bodily injury to any wild animals that come into contact with them, or using bows, crossbows or explosives to kill or capture them; using as decoys any live mammal or bird or knowingly cause or permit any of these offences to be carried out, and failing to inspect snares which have been set on a daily basis. It states:-
11(1) Subject to the provisions of this Part, if any person:-
(a) sets in position any self-locking snare which is of such a nature and so placed as to be calculated to cause bodily injury to any wild animal coming into contact therewith;
(b) uses for the purpose of killing or taking any wild animal any self-locking snare, whether or not of such a nature or so placed as aforesaid, any bow or crossbow or any explosive other than ammunition for a firearm;
(c) uses as a decoy, for the purpose of killing or taking any wild animal, any live mammal or bird whatever; or
(d) knowingly causes or permits to be done an act which is mentioned in the foregoing provisions of this subsection,
he shall be guilty of an offence.
11(3) Subject to the provisions of this Part, if any person:-
(a) sets in position or knowingly causes or permits to be set in position any snare which is of such a nature and so placed as to be calculated to cause bodily injury to any wild animal coming into contact therewith; and
(b) while the snare remains in position fails, without reasonable excuse, to inspect it, or cause it to be inspected, at least once every day,
he shall be guilty of an offence.
11(4) The Secretary of State may, for the purpose of complying with an international obligation, by order, either generally or in relation to any kind of wild animal specified in the order, amend subsection (1) by adding any method of killing or taking wild animals or by omitting any such method as is mentioned in that subsection.
11(5) In any proceedings for an offence under subsection (1)(b) or (c) and in any proceedings for an offence under subsection (1)(d) relating to an act which is mentioned in any of those paragraphs, the animal in question shall be presumed to have been a wild animal unless the contrary is shown.
Hmmm, interesting, so you can hunt with an atlatl in the UK (except for deer, it would fall under arrow, spear or similar missile). Very interesting indeed.
RovingArcher
14-10-2004, 04:20
Hmmm, interesting, so you can hunt with an atlatl in the UK (except for deer, it would fall under arrow, spear or similar missile). Very interesting indeed.
That thought had crossed my mind as well. But figured that the atlatl fell under section 11(4), which seems to leave it completely open ended for the Secretary of State to name any weapon illegal as circumstances dictate. Or, am I misunderstanding what it says?
Personally, I like the idea of the boar returning back to England. My dream is to see the wolf return to our countryside, does anyone else agree? Bearing in mind the uninformed bad press the poor wolf has had. :Thinkingo
you guys might want to see this then http://www.bushcraftuk.net/community/showthread.php?t=3624&page=3
did wild boars ever actually disappear completely in britian? i thought it was just that their numbers are on the up, due to farming them??
and as far as bow hunting goes there was a cop at my old archery club who reckoned that if you shot anything that is alive in the UK with a bow its illegal!
and as far as bow hunting goes there was a cop at my old archery club who reckoned that if you shot anything that is alive in the UK with a bow its illegal!
Yep that is quite correct.... The laws are posted in this thread above ;-)
Ed
boar were totaly wiped out about 400 years ago along with the wolf, the beaver ( ok that was more like 900 years ago ) and the dear old bear ( how come noone ever wants those reintroduced ). The only problem with the reintroduction is sheer size - our native strain was a lot smaller than the ones now roaming which came from Polish stock.
Realgar
and the dear old bear ( how come noone ever wants those reintroduced ). The only problem with the reintroduction is sheer size - our native strain was a lot smaller than the ones now roaming which came from Polish stock.
Realgar
Maybe the bear is the same issue, those that would now survive / propogate have evolved into something bigger and as such cause a threat to a lot of other creatures including man :?:.
Who knows :?:
cause a threat to a lot of other creatures including man :?:.
Who knows :?:
Well we are over populated and it it would seem a natural way to deal with the situation....
That thought had crossed my mind as well. But figured that the atlatl fell under section 11(4), which seems to leave it completely open ended for the Secretary of State to name any weapon illegal as circumstances dictate. Or, am I misunderstanding what it says?
Reading laws makes my head hurt but I think it means it's not illegal but the Secretary of State can ammend the act to make it so.
Hi...
Check this out!!!
http://users.skynet.be/fa011459/lion.wmv
Though this is a lion it is worth watching.
Shame the Lion didn't take his head off, I cant abide killing for sport.