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View Full Version : Christmas lights=ecological vandalism.



Graham_S
23-12-2007, 00:13
Here's something that bugs me.
Christmas Lights.
Everywhere I go I see houses lit up with loads of lights.

How irresponsible is this? with adverts on TV and in the papers telling people to save energy, turn off lights when not in use, etc. And still we see this display of wasted energy.
There is no need. What is this doing to peoples carbon footprint?


SAY NO TO XMAS LIGHTS!!

EdS
23-12-2007, 00:25
I'll second that - save the very same every year.

And excessive lights on motorways, should be 100m before and after junctions & slip roads only

andy_e
23-12-2007, 00:43
Totally agree, say no to Xmas cards too, waste of trees if you ask me.

Bob the Blacksmith
23-12-2007, 04:48
. And still we see this display of wasted energy.
There is no need. What is this doing to peoples carbon footprint?


SAY NO TO XMAS LIGHTS!!

I think that they are great. They cheer people up at a miserable time of the year. I'd be interested to see a life-cycle comparison of crimbo lights versus fireworks, I suspect the average family consumes more resources in the use of fireworks than powering their festive lights.

Mike Ameling
23-12-2007, 05:12
T'was only a matter of time ....

Till this new fanatical fad religious cult called "green" or "eco" or "environmentalism" decided to go after Christmas. Every other fringe group his hacking on Christmas, so they might as well pile on as well.

No, I ain't a fan of all the lights.

Kind of reminds me of the old Puritans or the Inquisition. If somebody (other than us) is having fun, then it must be bad and we have to punish them for it. And "we" know best how everybody else should live and think/believe.

Sorry for the grumpy rant. I've had to put up with too many of those "holier than thou" people lately. Or should I say "greener than thou". And most can't even see the hypocracy of their own words compared to their actions and lifestyle.

Mikey - crawling back under my rock out here in the Hinterlands

JohnC
23-12-2007, 09:48
WE forgot Christmas cards last year, people still spoke to us, this year we didnt do any, sent an ecard intead to family...

Cairodel
23-12-2007, 10:01
[QUOTE=Mike Ameling;357779]T'was only a matter of time ....
Till this new fanatical fad religious cult called "green" or "eco" or "environmentalism" decided to go after Christmas. Every other fringe group his hacking on Christmas, so they might as well pile on as well.
No, I ain't a fan of all the lights.
Kind of reminds me of the old Puritans or the Inquisition. If somebody (other than us) is having fun, then it must be bad and we have to punish them for it. And "we" know best how everybody else should live and think/believe.
Sorry for the grumpy rant. I've had to put up with too many of those "holier than thou" people lately. Or should I say "greener than thou". And most can't even see the hypocracy of their own words compared to their actions and lifestyle.
Mikey - crawling back under my rock out here in the Hinterlands

Agree wholeheartedly with both of you...
The only reservation I have is the length of time before Christmas they are put up,
and taken down afterwards....

A Bright and Merry Christmas to all...

fred gordon
23-12-2007, 10:05
Don't want to interfere as this thread is interesting but none of my business, if you get my drift. Howver, it would make a good Poll. Christmas lights, motorway signs, lighting up famous bridges, buildings etc. Just a thought.:rolleyes:

xylaria
23-12-2007, 10:45
I love cristmas lights, because I need the extra lux to stop me hibernating. They cheer me up no end. We keep some of ours up until the middle of january.

but we haven't sent christmas cards out in years, i have wrapped pressies in newspaper before.

This time of year means so many different things to so many different people, but the old grumpy blacksmith so right. I am getting so peeved off with those that demand the right to liberty and the pursuit of happiness, but don't think they have the duty to protect those rights for others that don't think like them.

If someone wants to coat there house in a dancing santa light show it doesn't stop anyone choosing having none.
If someone wants to piously concentrate on the christ and mass part good on them, it doesn't stop me celebrating yule or anyone else's hanukkah or eid.
If someone wants to eat nut roast it doesn't stop anyone eating fois grois.

Tis the the season of good will to all men.

John Fenna
23-12-2007, 10:52
Personally I do not put up Xmas lights - not because of the ecco side of things, but simply because they clash with my ideas of good taste!
Most lights - and exterior lights especially - are simply tacky.
I use a small artificial treehung with baubles - mostly spun glass dating from my infancy and so laden with memories of Xmas past when my parents were with me in the flesh not just in Spirit, and light the tree (from a safe distance) with candles and candle lanterns.
Much more tasteful than a flashing, animated, Santa no matter what his carbon footprint.
As to when they go up...
In my youth the house was decorated on Xmas eve and everything came down on 12th night - and Christmas was SPECIAL.
Now decorations are to be seen going up in November and coming down in Feb!
What does that say about Xmas being special?
I will not have a go at anyone celebrating in their own way but I personally prefer a trad Xmas - but then I am a dead ringer for Mr Pickwick!

xylaria
23-12-2007, 11:06
The dancing homer santa light show does not conform to my idea of taste either. But it is not my business to judge. We do take our kids for drive around the council estates to look at potteries illuminations. We keep one set up for my sons birthday and mine on 11th and 12th of jan

What is a traditional christmas anyway. Each generation adds and takes away things from festivals. I cant see what is wrong with change but there is alot wrong with fundamentalism of any type.

John you look nought like mr pickwick, and friendly pirate is closer.

Tengu
23-12-2007, 11:16
Me too, the lights are very nerve wracking.

and its in bad taste

There was a street near here where EVERY house was lit up like a xmas tree on serious drugs, they did this for charity.

but people kept on going round, driving up and down this street, a cul de sac, and worse still, on the main road with people stopping) it cant have been much fun living there over xmas....

You will be glad that our interfering totilarian police have advised them to stop...not a sausage now.

As for the ecological cost, these people pay for it, dont they? (and some of them dont care how big their fuel bills get, says she who struggles to pay every bill and cant turn her central heating on....I find candles very useful) Its not like the government give grants to look festive.

But I dont like my 70 year old father having to go up the ladder to attach his wifes icicle lights to the gutter.

John Fenna
23-12-2007, 11:28
Ahh Xylaria!
I have just had my first haircut for 4 months (the panto I was in is now over and I no longer have to look like "a hedge with eyes" "mountain goat" or "apeman") so I am back to a No. 2 crop with the bald patch shining bright!
If Pickwick wore a trimmed beard we could be twins!
You areright about traditional Xmas changing with each generation - I was refering to is one of the "traditions" of my childhood, not nessessarily of anyone elses traditions.
As to liking/disliking Xmas lights it all comes down to personal taste - I am not fond of Xmas cake or mincepies either - and I find many popular things tacky as well - obvoiusly I am in the minority or they would not be so prevelent!
A merry Xmas to you all
http://i167.photobucket.com/albums/u142/johnfenna/Nov14345.jpg

Wayland
23-12-2007, 12:12
I have mixed feelings about this.

On the one side I do think it's an environmental problem in the West, we seem to be afraid of the dark, everything must be lit up.

The result is we can't see the sky at night as it really is and very few people ever learn the real capabilities of their own night vision.

I'm well known at the meet ups for grumbling about people using head torches to blind everyone they meet but at the same time I have reflective cord and luminous toggles on my guy lines to stop people tripping on them. :dunno:

The other side of me says that the deep winter months can be depressing at times, especially when there is little real sunshine in the days. A few lights raise the gloom at such times and if it makes people happy then perhaps it is no bad thing.

w00dsmoke
23-12-2007, 12:32
Here's something that bugs me.
Christmas Lights.
Everywhere I go I see houses lit up with loads of lights.

How irresponsible is this? with adverts on TV and in the papers telling people to save energy, turn off lights when not in use, etc. And still we see this display of wasted energy.
There is no need. What is this doing to peoples carbon footprint?


SAY NO TO XMAS LIGHTS!!

:lmao: C'mon Graham...you are in Dundee what do you expect? pmsl One of the most poor cities in Scotland outside Glasgow and folk need to show an outward display of status through the exhibition of Xmas lights! Dundee is the grimmest greyest doorest city i've ever lived and worked in, giving it some light is a sheer act of love man!

JonnyP
23-12-2007, 12:39
Crikey, christmas doen't half bring out the grumbling old men....Tis the season to be jolly don't you know...I bet you wingers will occasionally over eat or over drink...Do you not realise that is not very eco friendly for your body...Get on with your own lives and stop begrudging others happyness....

Toddy
23-12-2007, 12:45
Bah Humbug ;) Actually I like humbugs, quite a nice wee minty sweetie :)

Xmas lights ? Oh dearie me (shakes head)
Appallingly crass most of them; where enthusiastic neighbours have turned their homes into veritable slot machines of flashing, whirling migraine inducing dazzles like those of a fairground show. And they all seem to be in place and switched on before December too :11doh: It's kind of pathetic. Goes on too long, spoils the pleasure of a special few days.

I kind of hibernate through the darkest bit of the year, I don't get depressed, just incredibly sleepy and unenergetic, and I know the light levels are to blame. I can well understand the 'need' for light, but I'm inclined more to real light ( is it more polluting? :confused: ) and happily light up my garden with candles :)
Not quite so easy when it's pouring with rain, admittedly :rolleyes:

My apple tree has bluebirds and green leaves and bright flower lights wound through it though. They get left in place all year but only switched on for a few days a year. When I have friends in for supper, when it's Solstice and Equinox, Hallowe'en and Yule and the New Year. I don't even leave them on overnight, just for a few hours enjoyment.....not to flood the neighbourhood with light pollution.

Okay, grump over, I've got another cold from hell and find I'm drowning when I try to lie down :( :sigh: Gonna go and make some hot cider :-))

cheers,
Toddy

SOAR
23-12-2007, 13:19
I like decorations of all sorts homemade or handed down through generations like the ones we have, I'm not a big fan of the over the top external decorations that seems to go on, but each to their own.
A friend of mine loves them, his house is so lit up at Christmas its a joke, he has everthing from santas to grotos on his roof and in his garden, but he has 8 kids, and they love it, and it makes him happy. Last year he was up on his roof fitting more new lights when the ladder fell of the roof, his wife was in so he tried banging on the roof to get her to put the ladder back up, no reply, so he tried to ring her from his mobile, 8 attempts later he gave up. He was stuck up on his roof for 5 hours until his neighbour got home from work and he was able to get his attention. When he got down and went to see where his wife was she was sitting with her feet up watching telly with a brew totally unaware of what had gone on.
Still it doesn't stop him as his house is still draining the national grid this year, but he's happy and so are his kids.

Simon.

Wayland
23-12-2007, 15:09
Oh by the way..

http://www.wayland.me.uk/assets/images/Animated_juleblot.gif

God Jul

gorilla
23-12-2007, 15:13
christmas lights are fine - i personally find it cheering and all part of the season. i put all my decorations up 12 days before, and down 12 days after - long enough to keep the kids happy, but not so long so that i'm fed up with them!
i don't do cards, but for fiscal reasons only
above everything else, Christmas should be a happy, tolerant time, not a time for the moaners to kick off. carbon footprint? - i use what i have to use, and it's no-one elses business - i have no plans on turning Amish anytime soon, so electricity and big diesel engines are ok by me!
Graham S - expect the first ghost when the bell tolls 1.......

TallMikeM
23-12-2007, 15:54
we're all doomed anyways, chrimbo lights or not, so we might as well enjoy the ride:D .

Mike Ameling
23-12-2007, 16:53
Well, I'm not a complete grump!

It's just hard to put up with the EXCESS of some people and their Christmas displays and fanatical eco-crusading. Christmas could use a lot more faith/spirit, and the eco-greeners could use a whole lot less "blind faith".

I do have one strand of "lights" that I do turn on for a few hours for 2 or 3 days. I strung them up on a wire frame in the shape of the Viking rune of LIFE. The few people that see it and comment about it try to point out that my "hippy peace symbol" is upside down! I politely inform them that the "hippy peace symbol" is actually the Viking rune of DEATH, and I prefer a symbol of LIFE.

On Christmas Eve, I also hang a candle lantern in the window. Simple, basic, and traditional. (Save the rant about BURNING a candle - adding carbon gasses into the atmosphere - and exploiting those poor helpless creatures called bees - just for their wax to make candles to burn) ... yeah, another long discussion I had with one of those eco-jihadi's!

But it is time to go out and get a ... shrubbery ... (nih nih nih ... nuu) and bring it into the home. I go out and trim a few branches from one of the pine trees, tie them up into a simple bundle, and have my little natural display for a few days.

Now to go listen to the record player, or a casette or two. The local radio stations have shifted from every 2nd or 3rd song being a Christmas song - to every 4th or 5th song NOT being a Christmas song. And they will keep it up till after New Years Day! After hearing some pop (c)rap star sing his weird interpretation of White Christmas for the 10th time in one hour, it changes from being slightly amusing to utter disgust.

And it's STILL SNOWING! Added 4 inches over night, and more coming now. Altho, this could just be the snow BLOWING off of the tops of the hills around here and settling down here in the valley!

Time to go build snow forts!

Merry Christmas to all ... no matter how you personally celibrate it!

Mikey - that grumpy ol' blacksmith out in the Hinterlands

EdS
24-12-2007, 11:45
of course if the lights are really bad The Clean Neighborhoods and Environments Act 2005 section 102 now amends Environmental Protection Act 1990 section 79 to include artificial light in the Statutory nuisances.


Eds - still at work in Environmental Health, bah humbug

Matt Weir
24-12-2007, 11:59
We have a tree with baubles and lights but no 'decorations' are up apart from a wreath I have hung on the gate outside.

However, I love to have a few candles lit of an evening.

PIDDOCK
24-12-2007, 12:03
Get the Hindu's to stop their fireworks for Duvali. And the Muslims to stop the same for Eaid (sp?) or any of the other religious/religions who leave a carbon footprint to stop their festivals and celebrations then maybe we christians should be asked to stop with the christmas lights.

Christmas lights are just the tip of the iceberg imo its all just another watering down of our traditions. Let people celebrate how they see fit, who are you or anybody else to decide whats taste and what isnt. I feel some snobbery coming through here or at least self-righteous better than thouisms.

Truely in the christmas spirit.

Steve27752
24-12-2007, 12:12
As many lights as possible and you know why?.......................... ....................Because the children (and me like them).

gorilla
24-12-2007, 12:13
Oh by the way..

http://www.wayland.me.uk/assets/images/Animated_juleblot.gif

God Jul

see - now i like that!
anyway i could set that as wallpaper?

Wayland
24-12-2007, 12:26
:D And they're Eco friendly lights too....

Kepis
24-12-2007, 12:37
I dont have leccy Xmas lights, instead i collect a load of glow worms and paint them different colours with ocre etc, then i carefully thread them onto some nettle cordage and hang them up around the place - looks lovely:rolleyes: , after Xmas i give the worms a bath to get them back to normal and return them to where i found them.:nana:

Have a good un everyone, and remember Peace & Goodwill to All Men

Shewie
24-12-2007, 12:39
Ashamedly I feel I should let you see my house this year, you`ll understand why I`ve not posted on this thread previously then.

http://i222.photobucket.com/albums/dd291/Shewie01/329198444_7cb7befa91_b.jpg







only joking ...

Toddy
24-12-2007, 12:44
Oi! It's you :eek: You live up the street, don't you? :rolleyes:

Actually on a curious note; how on Earth does one wire up that lot? I struggled to get eight strands through the apple tree.


cheers,
Toddy

gregorach
24-12-2007, 12:50
Like most things, they're OK in moderation - but I find this whole business of spending hundreds of pounds and burning lord-knows-how-many kilowatt-hours to turn your house into a down-market version of Blackpool Illuminations frankly bizarre, and in very poor taste. Surely we can enjoy the festive season without getting into some kind of illuminations arms race?

Stew
24-12-2007, 13:14
I wonder when we'll see a big change over to LED lights. I've seen a couple of sets but not too many yet.

I wonder if the manufacturers/retailers will like them as they last so well that the only reason to replace would be if you can't be bothered to untangle them. Just imagine - no more blown lights and struggling to find which has gone.

That and they use less power.

Wayland
24-12-2007, 13:22
We have blue LED ones strung up around our bookcases all year as "Mood Lights".

They work for us and as you say run on very little power.

Stew
24-12-2007, 13:47
Actually, that reminds me - Halogen spot lights! They annoy me more than Christmas lights.

I've recently switched my kitchen light from halogen spots to LED spots. The halogen bulbs are 50w and the LED are 1.6w. That's a reduction in power use by 96.8%!!

Now, at work we have hundreds of the things. In a few areas, the 50w halogens have been changed for 30w versions but it could still be better.

Does anyone have to hand actual rough cost of use?

Stew
24-12-2007, 13:49
Oh, and also.

The internet = ecological vandalism ?

Tengu
24-12-2007, 21:17
I will say that there seems to be less round here than last year.

Cairodel
24-12-2007, 22:35
I dont have leccy Xmas lights, instead i collect a load of glow worms and paint them different colours with ocre etc, then i carefully thread them onto some nettle cordage and hang them up around the place - looks lovely:rolleyes: , after Xmas i give the worms a bath to get them back to normal and return them to where i found them.:nana:

Have a good un everyone, and remember Peace & Goodwill to All Men


Excellent Maver...:lmao: :lmao:
You weren't taking the p...... now, were you.....:eek:

Kepis
24-12-2007, 22:49
Excellent Maver...:lmao: :lmao:
You weren't taking the p...... now, were you.....:eek:

Me never:rolleyes:

waylander
25-12-2007, 01:15
I love seeing all the xmas lights up it makes it feel real to me and not just another day, its part of the atmosphere. Personally I'm not into the reigious side of it because im not a great fan of religions in general, to me its about being with friends and family and having a good time together and to me lots fo festive lights are part of that.

Glade
26-12-2007, 21:43
Here's something that bugs me.
Christmas Lights.
Everywhere I go I see houses lit up with loads of lights.

How irresponsible is this? with adverts on TV and in the papers telling people to save energy, turn off lights when not in use, etc. And still we see this display of wasted energy.
There is no need. What is this doing to peoples carbon footprint?


SAY NO TO XMAS LIGHTS!!

So you're sitting at your computer, which consumes maybe 150 watts of power, using a monitor which consumes maybe another 70 watts if it's using a CRT, or less if it's a newer technology, but at the end of it all you're probably consuming the best part of a couple of hundred watts, and that's a computer which presumably will be in use pretty much throughout the year, and you're using it to complain about some Christmas fairy lights which consume only a fraction of that and are only in use over the Christmas season? Do you really need somebody to point out the irony?

If Christmas lights bothers you, and your so-called carbon footprint is such a big deal then you might want to consider switching your computer off. You could sell it or feed it through a shredder, or launch it into space or make a piece of modern art out of it or something.

Toddy
26-12-2007, 23:07
So, speaking as an electronics engineer, you'll not be a bitty biased then, maybe? :rolleyes: :D

Love them or loath them, it's almost time for them bye for another year.
I put strands of leds through my apple tree, leaves, flowers and bluebirds, very pretty, but every strand comes with its own transformer :eek: and plugging eight of them in is a pain; I tell you, there's a fortune waiting to be made by the inventor of an integrated system for all these light up thingies.

cheers,
Toddy

Glen
26-12-2007, 23:10
Actually, that reminds me - Halogen spot lights! They annoy me more than Christmas lights.

I've recently switched my kitchen light from halogen spots to LED spots. The halogen bulbs are 50w and the LED are 1.6w. That's a reduction in power use by 96.8%!!

Now, at work we have hundreds of the things. In a few areas, the 50w halogens have been changed for 30w versions but it could still be better.

Does anyone have to hand actual rough cost of use?

It will vary slightly from supplier to supplier, you can generally look at your last bill and see how much they charge per unit (1 KiloWatt Hour )

1 50W bulb for 20 hours = 1KWhour

Something to bear in mind though is that any figures taken in isolation are not necessarily representative of the "real life" situation. The smallest practical unit to break things down into, as a demonstration of this concept, is probably a single room.

Taking easy ( made up ) figures here.
If your in a room that's electrically heated ( in Winter ) and temperature controlled by a thermostat, if it requires an average of 2kilowats per hour to keep to your set temperature, then by putting 300W of lighting on and 200W of computer mean that it''ll only use about 1.5KW from the main heating source. Turning off the computer and using a single 10W bulb and it'll use almost 2KW from the main heating source. The reason being is you've got a closed system and all the energy is eventually coming out as heat.

So in that situation you might as well have the lights on, use the computer and feel more comfortable.

Lights in generally non heated rooms ( This will be probably all of them in Sumner ) or ouside lights ( if you must :( ) are where high efficency bulbs would make the most difference.