View Full Version : Sharpening tip
I did a lot of sharpening this weekend and one thing I noticed that I did before sharpening that I don't think I've mentioned before is to clean the blade before sharpening, especially if the blade is coverdd in tree sap, firesteel yuk or dirt.
Certainly made my life easier!
Nice on Adi - that's one of those things that never gets mentioned cos it's just "too obvious". Except of course that it's not really obvious at all untill it gets pointed out!
OK my first post.
I have only been into Bushcraft/Woodlore for a few months, thus my knowledge is rather limited, but I was under the impression that it is actually metal shavings (from the knife blade itself) that actually sharpened it. So the Firesteel shavings would help, I'm learning either way, so if you could confirm or correct me that would be great.
But I normally clean my knife (Frost's Mora training knife) after EVERY use. I do this because I understand that Carbon steel is a high maintainence material.
Keith_Beef
10-08-2004, 15:38
O..snip.. I was under the impression that it is actually metal shavings (from the knife blade itself) that actually sharpened it. ..snip..
Well according to Juranich, the metal shavings suspended in the oil film on the stone blunt the edge as you're sharpening it... which is why he suggests always sharpening on a dry stone.
The downside to this, is that you don't have any liquid to wash away the metal, so your stone clogs up...
But the good aspect is that your stone becomes finer, and less aggressive, and so polishes the edge better...
I've read somewhere (here?) that artists gum eraser is good for removing metal that has "loaded up" your stone. Maybe blue tack would work (on a cold day).
I think that if you get three sharpening experts together, you'll quickly have four opinions and a fight.
I sharpen dry, oily, watery, anyway I can, and get reasonable edges. Sometimes even scarily shaving sharp.
I also keep a small, medium grit stone, that I use for rubbing the flats to scrape off gunk like pine resin before sharpening on the good stones.
Keith.
Adi, i know what you mean, i cant get a sap stain off my waterstone from sharpeing a dirty knife. However, it doesnt bother me because ive been starkie-converted!
Cheers,
Jake
I am a Bench joiner by trade and thus have to have very good edges on all my tools. The way I sharpen my knives is with a "Lansky" sharpening system, a bit of a cheat really but you get a nice constant profile along the length of the blade. After using the stones with oil I hold them at an angle and spray a little WD40 onto them, this lifts all the metal dust out of them and leaves them like new! DON'T use anything with PTFE in it :nono: . It may be slippery but it will clog your stones. After stoning your blade you should strop your blade, this is a piece of leather with a very fine cutting paste on it. :biggthump
Happy sharpening.
I use a little oil and a toothbrush to clean my natural stones. I think Juranich is right about metal filings causing chipping in the edge but if you keep the stone relatively clean, this should not be a problem imo. A simple solution is to use wet/dry sandpaper. When the sandpaper clogs, I clean it with a stiff, dry toothbrush.
http://www4.gvsu.edu/triert/images5/hoodooflathone1.jpg
I totally agree with Adi about cleaning your knife before sharpening. For stuff that's dried on and really hard to remove (like some plant saps), sometimes I use a ScotchBrite pad.
I forgot to add, I find that WD40 is good at removing most of the muck off of my blades. For those tough, hard to shift stains (sounds like ad advert :o): ) I also use a ScotchBrite pad.
Just one little point - personally I would say clean your knife as you use it especially when butchering game.
Even when not using it on meat clean it - hate to think of some sucker clearing his shelter area of Hemlock or yew or some such and then with a dirty knife gutting a fish or preping a nice wild salad - cleanliness is next to godliness! :shock:
Are they poisonous trees? well I know Yew is, but not sure about Hemlock. I would normally use an axe or hatchet for clearing trees myself.
can anyone recommend a good basic sharpening stone?
Is the hemlock tree the direct source of the poison hemlock or is there other processes involved, that was the stuff that socrates died of drinking i think.
Cheers,
Jake
Yes. Hemlock is a poisonous herb that are close relatives to parsley, caraway and even carrots and parsnips. It contains high levels of alkaloid, making them toxic.
Doesnt lettuce contain a poison that in small quantities is good for us?
Don't know ... the likes of spinach, lettuce and rhubarb can contain high levels of nitrites. Nitrite reacts with amines and amides naturally present in the body to form carcinogenic compounds known as nitrosamines.
Compared to what we exposed outselves to with modern living, I don't think it's going to kill me!
The General
11-08-2004, 00:42
I have used just about every sharpening trick, system and stone out there.
1. For best performance a clean knife and stone are a must.
2. Use oil and water if you must, though I only use water. Oil is messy and ruins stones in my opinion. Water gives a less agressive cut and allows easier cleaning of the stones. With Diamond in particular I use pleanty of water.
3. Consistancy and accuracy are the key phrases here.
4. You must know what you are trying to do, what you have actually done and what the goal is. It is no good simply having a go and hoping for the best...
5. I use kitchen roll to clean the knife edge after about 40 passes on each edge side. Its surprising how much 'stuff' gets on the blade...
General are you still planning a knife sharpening workshop at the meet up?
The General
11-08-2004, 01:07
Yes, though it will be quite an informal affair! I may do several as required. Basicly when enough people have found me and word has got around we can organise a place to be and see how it goes.
I will be very limited in what I can bring sharpening wise, so I will keep it down to a sharpmaker, a couple of DMT stones and perhaps something else. I use my DMT stones in the field to sharpen and the Sharpmaker or Apex system at home as well as a large Ultra fine benchstone from Spyderco.
Bring the stuff you want to learn how to use and I will adapt the class as required. There are few systems or products I am not familier with and the basics stand either way.
If a convex edge is required, bring some leather belts and abrasive compounds as well as a few mouse matts and some wet and dry paper!
I am seriously having to limit what I can bring! :pack:
Adi...your a fountain of knowledge.
can anyone recommend a good basic sharpening stone?
The DC4 that Stuart sells is a great pocket stone with both coarse and fine sides. An excellent peice of kit. Lightweight too.
As for toxins in food..
Doesnt lettuce contain a poison that in small quantities is good for us?
If you look hard enough at a many foods, you'll find that they can be poisonous, but the qauntities ingested in normal daily use are not worth worrying about.
Anyone remember the Patulin/Apple juice scare? As Anne Diamond FAILED to point out, you'd need to drink something like 20 GALLONS of apple juice a day for 10 weeks IIRC to die of patulin poisoning, by which time you would have died of Vitamin C poisoning, heart attack from the quantity of water entering the blood stream and diluting your electrolytes and half a dozen other reasons.
Anything you read in the press, take with an EC salt mountain...
Keith_Beef
11-08-2004, 14:30
DON'T use anything with PTFE in it :nono: . It may be slippery but it will clog your stones.
As I understand it, that is the whole point of PTFE (Teflon) laden fluids. The particles of PFTE in suspension fill in the irregularities in the surfaces that rub against one another, to reduce friction.
The whole point of a sharpening stone is to have a controlled degree of wear, in order to remove the metal.
If you don't want to remove metal, you don't grind. You use a smooth steel the straighten the edge without removing metal.
Keith.
Keith_Beef
11-08-2004, 14:35
Anyone remember the Patulin/Apple juice scare? As Anne Diamond FAILED to point out, you'd need to drink something like 20 GALLONS of apple juice a day for 10 weeks IIRC to die of patulin poisoning, by which time you would have died of Vitamin C poisoning, heart attack from the quantity of water entering the blood stream and diluting your electrolytes and half a dozen other reasons.
Anything you read in the press, take with an EC salt mountain...
You can't die from vitamin C poisoning. Excess vitamin C is eliminated from the body, which is seen as diarhoea. Annoying, maybe dehydrating, but if the cause is a vitamin C rich drink, then maybe this is not such a problem.
Vitamin D, on the other hand, in very high doses can be a problem. I've heard of pregnangt women taking vitamin D supplements, who read that "eating lots of liver is good" having sometimes suffered from overdoses.
Keith.
Keith_Beef
11-08-2004, 14:40
Doesnt lettuce contain a poison that in small quantities is good for us?
I seem to remember somebody (Boaty?) suggesting eating lettuce for supper in order to sleep better in hot weather.
Lettuce sap contains an opiate. Lactuca virosa and lactuca canadensis contain more than commercial cultivars, but still, the milky white sap (origin of the name lactuca) contains a very mild sedative that might be just enough to push you into the land of nod.
No doubt, if you drain eight pints of sap from lettuce plants, and drink all of it in twenty minutes, you will feel a bit dizzy, maybe nausea and vomiting will follow. Ann Diamond really should investigate the stuff freely available at the greengrocer's shop!
Keith.
Ah, sorry, long time since I was a scientist ( I know it turns your skin yellow in excess) but it just REALLY got on my nerves that she totally ignored the work I was doing just to hype up the stories for the press...:rant: :banghead: :rant: :banghead: :rant: :banghead:
Lettuce is sufferitic(sp) i.e. contains chemicals that make you want to sleep,no idea on the amount you would need to eat, this fact has been known as detailed in Beatrix Potter's Tale of something Rabbits, where all the young rabbits ate the lettuce from the garden only to fall asleep and be bagged up for a pie. Now don't even ask how i remember these things when 9 times out of ten I can't remember what I did a few days ago.
Keith_Beef
11-08-2004, 15:29
Lettuce is sufferitic(sp) i.e. contains chemicals that make you want to sleep,no idea on the amount you would need to eat, this fact has been known as detailed in Beatrix Potter's Tale of something Rabbits, where all the young rabbits ate the lettuce from the garden only to fall asleep and be bagged up for a pie. Now don't even ask how i remember these things when 9 times out of ten I can't remember what I did a few days ago.
Soporific, I think you mean.
Must be the "Tale of Peter Rabbit". I don't remember the little rabbits falling asleep in that story (maybe in another story), although Mrs (Jessica?) Rabbit warns her offspring to stay away from Mr MacGregor's garden, saying "your father had a nasty accident up there, and ended up in a pie".
There is mention of Peter feeling sick, so he eats parsley to cure himself.
Keith.
Its from the tale of the flopsey bunnies - beatrix potter quotes - ThinkExist quotations
... Beatrix Potter quotes, "It is said that the effect of eating too much
lettuce is 'soporific'". Author: Beatrix Potter. "Thank goodness ...
en.thinkexist.com/quotes/beatrix_potter/ - 19k - Cached - Similar pages
The particles of PFTE in suspension fill in the irregularities in the surfaces that rub against one another, to reduce friction.
The whole point of a sharpening stone is to have a controlled degree of wear, in order to remove the metal.
If you don't want to remove metal, you don't grind. You use a smooth steel the straighten the edge without removing metal.
This is all very well but if you keep on applying the PTFE you cannot get a controlled sharpen as you will have to push the stone harder to enable the same cut. In order to get consistent grinds you should keep your stone clean and flat, thereby keeping the same grit. :-) Happy sharpening