Pay It Forward - Tree Knowledge Competition

[British Red]

Recently, we have had a bit of fun with tree recognition competitions.

Here is a one with a prize!

The first person to correctly identify all 10 will win a prize from me. You can enter as many times as you like. However for each entry I would like you to make a “pay it forward” gift. It could be to charity, or just helping someone out.

How much should you do? Your choice

Which charity, person or cause? Your choice.

If you can't decide then I will make a suggestion - one of my chosen causes is "Shelter". We enjoy being outdoors in all weathers but also go home to “re-supply”, wash our gear, and ourselves and enjoy a warm, well fed evening. It would be nice if we could offer someone else the chance to enjoy that kind of “Shelter”.

However, your own choices will be personal to you and equally as valid. A quid extra for the Big Issue, 5p in the charity jar in the local shop, a chore done for a local OAP – whatever you like.

I won't know if you have done this - but I trust you all so if you tell me you have, that’s good enough for me.

I would love to hear which charity or person you helped in your post. Here’s a link to Shelter on-line if you would like to give there

http://england.shelter.org.uk/howtohelp/howtohelp-7741.cfm


The rules are:

1. First correct entry on the thread wins

2. No "scores" e.g. 9/10 will be given - its 100% and a prize or "wrong". I may, from time to time, say what the “best” score so far is – but not whose it is.

3. The prize will consist of your choice of :

A) A complete batch of dehydrator jerky (ask Spamel or Matt for a taste report), or

B) A handmade 2lb batch of soap - we'll design a personal recipe for you,

C) A variety of handmade sweets (by me), or

D) A personal guided walk around my local haunts with lunch - payable anytime that is mutually convenient (clearly a booby prize but someone may like it)

4. I'm happy to give the answers to Tony up front if anyone wants an umpire

Oh, what makes it harder - you only get a picture of the bark of the tree.

There are 10 trees to identify and, as stated, you need to correctly identify them all. Please give your answers as follows

1) Elm
2) Hawthorn
3) ……
My gift was to do the shopping for my hassled neighbour……..Fred


Okay - thats the intro - here is the competition!



Tree #1

http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2259/2006350159_5a2fc8e2cf.jpg

Tree #2

http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2369/2006354191_4e02f4918a.jpg

Tree #3

http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2245/2006359225_9bc0a09c00.jpg

Tree #4

http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2247/2007161012_16ce268e2e.jpg

Tree #5

http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2391/2007166760_3d9cfc1b6f.jpg

Tree #6

http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2104/2006374511_1bd2c7f490.jpg

Tree #7

http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2268/2006393463_2fba540625.jpg

Tree #8

http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2051/2006386577_8950b980fa.jpg

Tree #9

http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2222/2006381349_88ced123b8.jpg

Tree #10

http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2283/2006398957_0716aa9624.jpg

I hope this proves fun!

Red

Oh - if you want to discuss other peoples answers, take the mickey out of one another, explain why you think 7 is the lesser spotted woodpecker tree or whatever - go for it :lmao:

[andyn]

Heck, these are all from recollection/memory no cross referencing from books or web so if its right i'll be very surprised, but if they help anyone else then so be it.

I've chucked a few £ into the breast cancer box in reception as they are campaigning for it still here, but i'll be making my annual donation to the woodland trust in December too.

Anyway here are my guesses:

1)Pine
2)Alder
3)Willow
4)Field maple
5)Ash
6)Aspen
7)Oak
8)Sycamore
9)Beech
10)Yew

[British Red]

Excellent - Thanks Andy!

No prize for that entry I'm afraid - I'll give the best score so far when we have a few entries!

Thanks again

Red

[SOAR]

Pretty trivky Red, any clues for no 9?

[British Red]

Its a different one than #8

[SOAR]

Then I shall have a go.

1 Sycamore
2 Goat Willow
3 Walnut
4 Ash
5 Lime
6 Whitebeam
7 Oak
8 London Plane
9 Alder
10 Pine

[British Red]

Thanks SOAR, your doctor will be pleased to hear you don't need to endure my jerky ;)

Three more answers and I'll give the best score (wheres your donation gonna go by the way?)

Red

[SOAR]

Guide dogs for the blind. and I will have to get the wife to get me a big issue as she works in the city.

[British Red]

Very cool - either/or is fine by me!

Do fee free to try again of course :)

Red

[Mirius]

Well, this is far beyond me, though I'm sure that they are really simple enough! I don't think I'm going to be sampling the prizes, lol, but it's too much fun not to have a go. My donation will go to shelter.

1. Horse Chestnut
2. False Acacia
3. Elder (not sure this is technically a tree)
4. Ash. Could be oak, but I'm going with Ash as the ridges seem straight
5. I have no idea :(
6. Salix I think, I'm going with poplar
7. Scots Pine
8. London Plane. I don't really think it is. The colouring is right, but it's too smooth
9. Beech
10. Cypress

[British Red]

Well Mirius, sadly, until they grow an "I have no idea" tree (and its "feck nose" cultivar), no 5 was always going to a problem. Thanks for playing though and your scores are in the "best score" spreasheet for judging against the others.

Red

[SOAR]

Ok I will try again.

1 Sycamore
2 Hornbeam
3 Walnut
4 Ash
5 Acer
6 Whitebeam
7 Oak
8 London Plane
9 Lyme
10 Hemlock

[addo]

Here goes.

1. Sycamore
2. Willow
3. Elder
4. Ash
5. Beech
6. Holly
7. Oak
8. London Plane
9. Lime
10. Pine ( Scots I think)

Cheers for the quiz. Money off to Children in Need.

:)

[British Red]

Excelent - thank you all!

The prize remains inclaimed so far. However with 5 sets of answers in so far, I'm happy to confirm the best score so far is

drum roll.......................... .............

5/10

Actually thats more that I suspected at this stage :)

Red

[rich59]

For London Wildlife Trust

1) Horse Chestnut
2) Black Locust (false acacia)
3) White Pine
4) Walnut
5) Ash
6) Mountain Ash
7) Oak
8) London Plane
9) Beech
10) Yew

[British Red]

Thanks Rich - not the full set but do feel free to have another go when you've had a ponder.

Red

[SOAR]

Ok seeing as its for charity,I'll have another go. My wife is going to put my donations into their charity box at work children in need.

1 Sycamore
2 umberella pine
3 Elder
4 Ash
5 Acer
6 Whitebeam
7 Oak
8 London Plane
9 Lime
10 Scotts Pine

[British Red]

Interesting - not all correct SOAR.

Hmm a hint can be purchased through a (posted) act of random kindness to a stranger :)

Red

[Matt Weir]

There was an 'auld fellow that took a fall in the middle of Manchester and I had to get past about half a dozen ignoramouses stood about gawping to get to him to help him up.

He was fine and I got the impression that it may be quite a regular occurance as he was quite jolly about it and exclaimed 'Oops, again' with a smile on his face. I made sure he was OK and he was off on his merry way.

Maybe not a random kindness to a stranger more of a random act of help - does that count Red?

I've not have time for good go at this yet myself so if the hint is to be via PM give to hint to someone random on here - maybe No 5 for Mirius.

Now that should qualify as a random act of kindness in itself ;)

[Toadflax]

I hope this proves fun!

Red


You call this fun! After doing our dinner, washing up ('cos wife and daughter were out at a charity nail manicuring session), doing some guitar practice I thought I'd relax last night at about 9 o'clock and have a look at this. Relax ! No way! I see several people posting 10 answers so I think that the game's up. I look at the trees and don't have a clue what some of them are so I get my tree book out, search on Google images and still don't get anywhere.

So I thought I'd be clever and collate all the answers so far but still don't get anywhere. And in any case, that doesn't really seem fair to the people who have put in all the work before me, so I think that I'll duck out of it. Then I see that the best score is only 5/10, so the game's still running. :banghead:

I thought that Bushcraft was supposed to be relaxing! :eek:


Geoff

[British Red]

Oh no, the hints are public - I'm kind and helpful - isn't that obvious from this thread? :D

Okay, lets make the hint based around no.5 ;)

The hint on No.5 is that it has not been guessed by anyone so far, however the tree in question has been named but not against no.5.

There you go Matt - now no knocking him down again for another hint :)

Red

[British Red]

Geoff, I seem to recall in the last one people syaing "make it tough" :lmao: .

This was going to be a "paid for" hint, but, to be completely fair and answer your point, I happy to reveal the following:

All of the species listed are real, likely to be found growing "wild" in Britain . There are no extreme oddities. Every tree in the competition has a full sized entry (not just as a confusable species) in Collins "how to identify Trees".

Can't say fairer than that

CMOT Red;)

[Matt Weir]

There you go Matt - now no knocking him down again for another hint :)

Red

:lmao: Well :naughty: , I was going to nip out and pinch some sweets off a kid then give them back but..:sulkoff: :lmao:

[Toadflax]

Okay, lets make the hint based around no.5 ;)

The hint on No.5 is that it has not been guessed by anyone so far, however the tree in question has been named but not against no.5.

Red

So I thought, great, it's turned into a logic puzzle. I can do logic puzzles. So I eliminate all trees that have already been named by someone against number 5 but there's lots of them. If I've got it right, then No 5 must be one of these...because they have all been proposed by someone, but have never appeared at number 5.

Alder
Aspen
BlackLocust(falseacacia
Cypress
Elder
FalseAcacia
Fieldmaple
GoatWillow
Hemlock
Holly
Hornbeam
HorseChestnut
LondonPlane
MountainAsh
Oak
Pine (I haven't separated out all the species of pine that have been proposed)
SalixIthink,I'mgoingwithpoplar
Sycamore
Walnut
Whitebeam
Willow
Yew


HTH helps you experts. I guess that some of these can be eliminated very quickly by someone who knows their bark.


Geoff :)

[British Red]

Now you are getting the idea Geoff :)

[ganstey]

For Children in Need

1 Horse Chestnut
2 Alder
3 Field Maple
4 Sessile Oak
5 Walnut
6 Beech
7 Sweet Chestnut
8 Laburnum
9 Ash
10 Sitka Spruce

My head hurts :confused:

G

[Mirius]

OK, time for second go. Now watch me change all the ones I got right and make them wrong! :D I know that I got at least half wrong before, but since I'm not looking these up, I'll just have to accept that I don't know them, lol. Still, it's great because it's proved to me that I know more than I did before, and yet it isn't impossible to learn more.

1. Horse Chestnut
2. False Acacia
3. Elder
4. Oak
5. Sycamore
6. Poplar - grey or black
7. Cedar
8. London Plane.
9. Beech
10. Scots Pine

[British Red]

Thanks Gents - neither were 100%.

Thats 9 entries so far. I'll give the high score again when we get to 10.

Happy to sell additional hints for kind acts of course :)

Red

[SOAR]

Had trouble sleeping last night my wife said I was shouting out "Elder! no, Walnut" I will have another bash, Very tricky to ID from just the bark alone.......

[addo]

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Here goes again

1. Sycamore
2. Willow
3. Field Maple
4. Ash
5. Hornbeam
6. Whitebeam
7. Oak
8. London Plane
9. Beech
10. Cedar of lebenon

[Matt Weir]

Thanks Gents - neither were 100%.

Thats 9 entries so far. I'll give the high score again when we get to 10.

Happy to sell additional hints for kind acts of course :)

Red

Does SOAR's PIF pouch (http://www.bushcraftuk.com/forum/showthread.php?t=26244) not qualify Red? :)

[Toadflax]

All of the species listed are real, likely to be found growing "wild" in Britain . There are no extreme oddities. Every tree in the competition has a full sized entry (not just as a confusable species) in Collins "how to identify Trees".

CMOT Red;)

I thought about seeing if I could buy a copy - may be out of print now, but Amazon have two copies available at (prepare to be shocked) £144.45 plus postage! At that price I'd thought they would have given free postage.

Geoff

[SOAR]

I thought about seeing if I could buy a copy - may be out of print now, but Amazon have two copies available at (prepare to be shocked) £144.45 plus postage! At that price I'd thought they would have given free postage.

Geoff

HOW MUCH! ..........

[British Red]

Yow thats steep Geoff. I'm sure Collins must do a more modern "tree Book" though. If its in the old one I bet its in there.

Matt,if you think you are strange enough.......:)

Okay the best score so far is




is............................



is............................ ......



(we'll be right back after the adverts)

Red

[British Red]

..................welcome back

The best score is 5/10 :lmao:


Since there has been a random act of kindness..............

There are two trees that have not been correctly named yet

Red

[SOAR]

1! Sycamore
2 Hawthorn
3 elder
4 Ash
5 Walnut
6 whitebeam
7 Oak
8 London Plane
9 Lime
10 Pine

[Toadflax]

OK, so if I update my list of possibles for No 5, taking into account that it still hasn't been named correctly, we have:

Alder
Aspen
BlackLocust(falseacacia
Cypress
Elder
FalseAcacia
Fieldmaple
GoatWillow
Hemlock
Holly
HorseChestnut
LondonPlane
MountainAsh
Oak
Pine (I haven't separated out all the species of pine that have been proposed)
SalixIthink,I'mgoingwithpoplar
Whitebeam
Willow
Yew

(I've removed walnut, sycamore and hornbeam). Still quite a few to choose from, but I suspect that some of these are really obviously not No 5.

Now I'm wondering if I can do some more analysis of the answers so far, given that the highest score is still only 5/10...


Geoff

[Toadflax]

There are two trees that have not been correctly named yet

Red

I wonder what that means. Does it mean that the names of two trees have not yet appeared anywhere on the thread, or does it mean that 8 of the trees have been named correctly by at least one person...

...I'm not necessarily expecting an answer from Red here, just thinking out aloud.


Geoff

PS: Seeing that a Yorkshireman is often described as a mean Scotsman, I haven't contributed anything to any charities yet - then again the Yorkshireman in me says that I haven't actually submitted an entry yet. :)

[British Red]

Children in need are going to love you SOAR :)

Not all correct I'm afraid, however your trend is improving after a problem in the middle. (does that help Geoff)?

Oh for future entries I'm going to need the types of things like "pine" (e.g. Sitka Spruce or Scots Pine as given previously).

Red

[SOAR]

Does that mean no 5 is correct?

[British Red]

Nope it means your scores got worse then better ;)

Now, feel free to keep trying I am, for a few minutes (adopts manly gruff voice), going to wrap choclates in petit four cases :)

Red

[SOAR]

Ok Children in need.

1 Sycamore
2 Hawthorn
3 Elder
4 Ash
5 Walnut
6 Rowan
7 Oak
8 London Plane
9 Lime
10 Scotts Pine.

[British Red]

Thanks SOAR. Still not all right I'm afraid.

Still thats 12 sets of answers in....high score will be published after 15........

Red

(ps would you like this chocolate brazil as a consolation prize?)

[Mirius]

Alder
Aspen
BlackLocust(falseacacia
Cypress
Elder
FalseAcacia
Fieldmaple
GoatWillow
Hemlock
Holly
HorseChestnut
LondonPlane
MountainAsh
Oak
Pine (I haven't separated out all the species of pine that have been proposed)
SalixIthink,I'mgoingwithpoplar
Whitebeam
Willow
Yew


He didn't actually say that No5 still hadn't been named correctly...

But from your list, you can remove I think
False acaccia - heavily ridged bark
Elder - they don't grow that big!
Holly - grey smooth bark
Horse chestnut - older trees have rough bark with a hammered effect
London Plane - multicoloured smooth bark
Mountain ash - again, don't grow that big I think
Yew - reddish but peeling bark.

[familne]

I'll go for:

1.Austrian/Corsican Pine
2.Willow
3.Elder
4.Oak
5.Alder
6.Beech
7.Norway Spruce
8.Plane
9.Sycamore
10.Scot's Pine

Donation to Children in Need

[British Red]

Thanks familne

You will be glad to know, that you don't need to treck down the whole country for lunch :)

Of course it was #13 so it was bound to be unlucky ;)

Red

[familne]

Another go:

1.Austrian/Corsican Pine
2.Willow
3.Elder
4.Ash
5.Alder
6.Lime
7.Norway Spruce
8.Plane
9.Sycamore
10.Scot's Pine

[Toadflax]

I will do a donation, Mr Red, even if I don't actually submit an entry, 'cos this has been good fun. It will be to one of the Alzheimer's charities, because my poor old Mum has it bad, and hasn't known who I am for about 5 years now and my Dad, who died last year, had hoped to spend his twilight years with her, instead of visiting a nursing home to see the empty shell of a person who looked like my Mum.


Geoff

[British Red]

What a great cause Geoff - thank you

Familne - same total score as last time (another nugget of information for Geoffs statistical analysis)

One more and we will get a new "best score"..................

Red

[Toadflax]

OK, here goes. Not convinced, but need some more stats to work with.

1 Horse Chestnut
2 Willow
3 Elder
4 Poplar
5 Holly
6 Beech
7 Oak
8 London Plane
9 Lime
10 Scots Pine


Geoff

[British Red]

Thanks geoff. Thats 15 tries! And more than 15 pay forwards as a result (including hints)

I'm afraid Geoff that, as you say, you clearly need some more stats

Anyway, the highest score so far is...........


is............................ ....



5/10 :D



Okay a free hint. One tree has been correctly identified, however a single incorrect answer has been given more times than the correct one................


Red

[SOAR]

Ok as my wife is giving my donations tommorow heres another.

1 Horse chestnut
2 Hawthorn
3 Elder
4 Ash
5 Walnut
6 Rowan
7 Oak
8 London Plane
9 Sycamore
10 Scotts Pine

[Stew]

Well, here's my entry.

I shall make an extra donation to the Edale Mountain Rescue Team, without whom I would probably be paralysed!

Drum roll please......

1 - Horse Chestnut
2 - Alder
3 - Elder
4 - Elm
5 - Pear
6 - Whitebeam
7 - Maple
8 - Sycamore
9 - Lime
10 - Spruce

[Matt Weir]

Oh, and as it's a charity based comp I will throw a book into the prize fund if that's OK Red? :)

[Toadflax]

This might be the new version of the Tree ID Book: http://www.amazon.co.uk/Collins-Tree-Guide-Owen-Johnson/dp/0007207719/ref=pd_sbs_b?ie=UTF8&qid=1195148428&sr=1-6. Price is a little more reasonable.


Geoff

[British Red]

Too right Matt - thank you. Such generosity deserves a hint.

The hint (of a statistical nature) is

Total correct answers in first five entries was 16
Total correct answers in second five entries was 17
Total correct answers in third five entries was 19

Red

[Stew]

Oh, and as it's a charity based comp I will throw a book into the prize fund if that's OK Red? :)

What, a tree ID book? :D

[British Red]

Oh btw - thanks for playing stew - great cause.

SOAR - thanks for that - an interesting movement in your trend curve - as a hint it moved either up or down :)

Neither was spot on though ;)

Red

[Toadflax]

Total correct answers in first five entries was 16 (32% correct)
Total correct answers in second five entries was 17 (34% correct)
Total correct answers in third five entries was 19 (38% correct)

Red

I think I may give up tree recognition and take up squirrel hunting! :D


Geoff

[British Red]

Hey - we'll get there! It was never meant to be easy - I've been surprised at which ones people found easy and which ones are tormenting people :D

Want another mathematical clue?

Red

[andyn]

If it helps someone get the prize...

I can garrantee 100000% that number 2) is Alder, I'll even donate £25 to charity if I am wrong, and If Red says its something else then he is fibbing ;) :lmao:

Might have another stab at this later, It is "Children in need" day tomorrow isn't it?

[British Red]

Wow - now there's confidence!

What makes you so sure Andy?

Red

[andyn]

Wow - now there's confidence!

What makes you so sure Andy?

Red

Well you haven't asked for the £25 donation yet. :cool:

Theres about 100 of them growing around our office.

[British Red]

I said I'd trust people to make the donations themselves Andy :)

[addo]

Here goes again

1. Sycamore
2. Willow
3. Field Maple
4. Ash
5. Walnut
6. Whitebeam
7. Oak
8. London Plane
9. Beech
10.Scots Pine

This is fun but doin my head in. At least its in a good cause. :)

[rich59]

Now, if we want to work as a team and be very systematic about this then we could give up trying to be right on 9/10 trees and only make a realistic guess (and one only) 5 times. Then after the 5 tries Red might just kindly tell us whether we scored 0 or 1. When we get 1 then we know what that tree was definitely and can move on to attack another tree.

As an example:-

1) Clover
2) Clover
3) Clover
4) Clover
5) Clover
6) Clover
7) London Plane
8) Clover
9) Clover
10) Clover

Now enter the same thing 5 x and see what Red gives us

[British Red]

Neither are entirely correct guys I'm afraid :(

Rich - have you calculated just how many donations its going to cost you to London Wildlife yet to find the answer?

You have however divined why I won't score individual entries ;)

However if you are that confident about no 7, why not match andyn's offer??

:D

Red

[Stew]

Try #2.....

1 - Horse Chestnut
2 - Alder
3 - Elder
4 - Pear
5 - Maple
6 - Whitebeam
7 - Pine
8 - Sycamore
9 - Lime
10 - Spruce

:rolleyes:

[Mang]

Red, I do a collection each year at work where people donate to a cause instead of sending cards (I can recommend it folks) and it will be to a local Hospice who looked after a work colleage.

I did OK in the individual tree quizzes but different barks?

1. Lassie
2. Poodle
3. Pointer
4. Springer Spaniel
5. Scooby-Doo
6. Papillon
7. Alsation
8. Hong Kong Phooey
9. Beagle
10.Border Collie

Can you tell I'm not even at the races when it comes to barks? *cough* I'll get my coat....

[SOAR]

So thats what #5 is. I may get to sleep tonight.:lmao:
Nice one fella.

[addo]

Here goes again

1. Sycamore
2. Goat Willow
3. Field Maple
4. Ash
5. Walnut
6. Rowan
7. Oak
8. London Plane
9. Beech
10.Scots Pine

I know there not all right, but if I dont put Rowan for No6. and its correct, I kick meself as its my Daughters name, and one of the finest trees around! I dont care if 1. isn't sycamore cause it looks like all the sycamores ive been inspecting this week. Raaaaa. Rant over
:banghead: :lmao:

[British Red]

Mang gets the best entry so far :)

No winners yet................

Average so far is 3.24

The high score of 5 has now been achieved by a number of contestants. :D

There is an interesting difference of opinion on No 1 here :)

Red

[rich59]

Neither are entirely correct guys I'm afraid :(

Rich - have you calculated just how many donations its going to cost you to London Wildlife yet to find the answer?

You have however divined why I won't score individual entries ;)

However if you are that confident about no 7, why not match andyn's offer??

:D

RedI have calculated very precisely that it will take us something like 500 years to get 10 right by just trying for 10 with no clues. Trying for 1 only would get the answer much quicker.

[British Red]

:D

aaaah but clues can be purchased............

Red

[bushwacker bob]

1/ yew
2/ alder
3/ spruce
4/ oak
5/ sycamore
6/holly
7/larch
8/london plane
9/beech
10/scots pine
£5 to guide dogs for the blind

[ganstey]

This might be the new version of the Tree ID Book: http://www.amazon.co.uk/Collins-Tree-Guide-Owen-Johnson/dp/0007207719/ref=pd_sbs_b?ie=UTF8&qid=1195148428&sr=1-6. Price is a little more reasonable.


Geoff

I've been using Collins Complete British Trees (http://www.amazon.co.uk/Complete-British-Trees-Paul-Sterry/dp/0007211775/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&s=books&qid=1195200696&sr=1-1), but it hasn't helped much :(

It is a good book though.

G

[Toadflax]

I've been using Collins Complete British Trees (http://www.amazon.co.uk/Complete-British-Trees-Paul-Sterry/dp/0007211775/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&s=books&qid=1195200696&sr=1-1), but it hasn't helped much :(

It is a good book though.

G

My problem now is that I've run out of available references that I can use. I don't know tree barks so I'm going from a standing start. I have one or two tree books at home but, as I suspect for the majority of basic guides, bark isn't often used as a primary ID - it's normally leaves /flowers /fruit. There are some good tree ID web sites, some include some pictures of bark, but in general they follow the primary IDs used by books: leaves /flowers /fruit. Google images produces some results but I haven't had great success there. If I had a day to spare, I'd print off the piccys and take them into the Radcliffe Science Library in Oxford because I'm sure that they will have lots of reference tomes there.

I've tried some statistical analysis of the answers so far and Red's hints but it's like one of those logic problems where there isn't quite enough information to get the answer. As Rich tried to do, we need some more data if we are going to solve it by logic. And solving by logic doesn't really teach me anything about tree identification.

I'm now getting to the limit of my knowledge and I'm tempted now just to do what I can to help anyone get a solution. I'd like to win the prize, but I don't want to get into the situation where I put in loads of effort to find the answer and then get annoyed because someone else beat me to it. In the end, Red's competition has provided me with entertainment, and I will hopefully learn something from it.

When I play board games, I just like playing them for the experience, and winning or otherwise doesn't matter to me. Right from my school days, I've always been good at what I do but there has always been someone better than me, and the philosophy propounded by the modern world of always trying to be best, and that you have failed if you aren't the best, has made it difficult for me at times. So my philosophy now is that I owe it myself and my family to try hard, but that second best is often good enough, and in most cases is still a very good achievement.

:eek: I'd better climb down from the psychiatrist's couch now and think some more about this problem.


Geoff

[ganstey]

I spent all of yesterday's lunchtime coming up with my entry. I spent some time having another look, but couldn't come up with anything better. Any other entry by me would be a finger in the air guess.

What I would really appreciate once someone has got the right answer, is some idea on what particular aspects of the barks help with the identification. I know that some of them will just be "well, that's how it looks", but maybe some of the others have key features that separate them from similar looking species.

Thanks Red, this has been a really good quiz, and even though I'm not going to win, I've learnt a lot from it.

G

[Matt Weir]

Exactly, I would love to be able to ID tree's from bark alone but in reality I am still in the early years of tree ID with full leaves, flower, buds and a bloody big sign next to it telling me what it is in most cases.

When I looked at the 10 specimens initially I admit no thinking 'no idea' to all of them or at best 'looks a bit like a pine - I think - maybe' :lmao:

Hopefully though this has and will be a great training tool because it makes you keep looking at the bark and it's characteristics over and over so come the day of the reveal we will all have a much better idea in general and if I can walk past a tree and just glance at it's trunk and think 'that's a sycamore' then I'll be chuffed to bits :D

Edit: I think no 6 is a cherry - I'll buy a Big Issue later :)

[British Red]

Thanks Sean - not the right answers though mate I'm afraid.

Sounds like I may have made this one over hard :o. I think AndyNs was the only only approach to solve this one - saying which ones you were cerain of and why. Of course someone might feed you a Red squirrel (I mean Red Herring), but I doubt it :)

Shall I provide the answers and dream up another competition instead?

Red

[rich59]

'Tis a little tricky this one Red. But don't give up the competition. Perhaps break it down a bit - say 3 - 5 at a go rather than the full 10. Certainly gets you looking at trees in a new way on the way to work!

[Toadflax]

Some thoughts on Mr Red's hints.

At guess #11, SOAR's trend improved after a dip in the middle. Now I don't know whether this applies to the total score or to a particular entry, but it may be significant that for No 10, he guessed Pine (Scots), switched to Hemlock, and then returned to Pine.

At guess #10, two trees have not been named correctly yet. I still don't know if this means that the names of these two trees have not appeared at all in peoples' guesses, or whether it means that they have appeared somewhere but against the incorrect number.

At guess #7, tree number 5 has been named, but not against number 5, which means that no 5 must be one of: Alder, Aspen, Cypress, Elder, False Acacia, Field maple, Goat Willow, Hemlock, Holly, Hornbeam, Horse Chestnut, London Plane, Mountain Ash, Oak, Pine ( Scots I think), Salix I think, I'm going with poplar, Sycamore, umberella pine, Walnut, White Pine, Whitebeam, Willow, Yew.

If we then take Mirius' comments (good correction on my second posting :)), this list comes down to: Alder, Aspen, Cypress, Field maple, Goat Willow, Hemlock, Hornbeam, Oak, Pine ( Scots I think), Salix I think, I'm going with poplar, Sycamore, umberella pine, Walnut, White Pine, Whitebeam, Willow. And if we then take andyn's comments, it can't be alder.

At guess #15, one tree has been correctly identified, but an incorrect one has been given more times than the correct one. No tree has been named consistently by everyone. If I look at the most popular tries: London Plane for 8 (13 guesses); Oak for 8 (10 guesses); Scots Pine for 10 (9 guesses); Ash for 4 (9 tries). I still can't conclude anything from this, unless there's something similar to London Plane that isn't London Plane.

At guess #20 there is an interesting difference of opinion on no 1. Commonest is Sycamore and Horse Chestnut.

I'm not sure yet where this gets us. but I bet that when we see the answers eventually it's going to be "Oh, of course!".


Geoff :) :( :) :( :) :( :) :(

[British Red]

Hmmm tricky now we've started that way Rich - I have plenty more I could do in more....manageable...chunks. Or perhaps a mix of leaves, flowers, bark, whole tree and even fruit pictures?

What do you think?

Red

[British Red]

Oh Geoff, no-one has got #9 yet either :)

What I meant by "not got" was not named it correctly in sequence. The name may (or may not) have appeared elsewhere incorrectly

Red

[Toadflax]

Oh Geoff, no-one has got #9 yet either :)

What I meant by "not got" was not named it correctly in sequence. The name may (or may not) have appeared elsewhere incorrectly

Red

OK, this is slightly different to the No 5 clue. For No 5 we had that it hadn't been named correctly, but it had definitely appeared somewhere else. So for No 5, we do have a definite list of candidates. After some pondering over Google images, I'm tempted towards Field Maple or Hemlock for No 5.

For this latest clue, we know that it has NOT yet been named correctly, but it may or may not have been named elsewhere. So all we can say for certain at this stage is that it is not: Alder, Ash, Beech, Lime, Sycamore.

So here's another attempt.


1. Sycamore
2. Alder
3. Elder
4. Poplar
5. Field Maple
6. Cherry
7. Oak
8. London Plane
9. Hornbeam
10. Scots Pine


Geoff (in exasperation)

[British Red]

Thats an interesting selection Geoff - not entirely correct but interesting

Red

[British Red]

We have had 23 guesses - two more and I will do some more stats and clues if people want to continue. I suggest that I give the answers tonight if we haven't had a winner and I'll dream up another competition later - does that suit everyone?

Happy to keep going but I don't want it to be an irritant!

Red

[Toadflax]

Did anyone look back at Red's recent tree recognition postings? Haven't paid anything to the charity yet - I'll tot up a figure once the thread is closed depending on how many attempts I have. So here is another attempt.

1. Sycamore
2. Alder
3. Elder
4. Poplar
5. Indian Bean Tree
6. Cherry
7. Oak
8. London Plane
9. Holm Oak
10. Scots Pine


Geoff

[Matt Weir]

We have had 23 guesses - two more and I will do some more stats and clues if people want to continue. I suggest that I give the answers tonight if we haven't had a winner and I'll dream up another competition later - does that suit everyone?

Happy to keep going but I don't want it to be an irritant!

Red

If you do a reveal tonight should we have the best so far win the book then Red? Not sure how you'd work that out?

Or we could have a roll-over? :D

[Mirius]

I missed hornbeam from tree 5. Hornbeam is quite similar to beech in terms of bark - smooth, grey/ green, but the trunks of hornbeam are quite errr lumpy - often it appears as though a number of smaller stems have fused together to make the main trunk, so I think we can rule it out.

And I've enjoyed this one immensely. I'm glad that I'm not the only one who isn't good at bark identification. The only reason I've focussed a bit on it is that when I started earlier this year, it was still winter, so the bark was the obvious thing. Mind you, I found when the leaves came out that I'd made some major mis-identifications lol.

[British Red]

If you do a reveal tonight should we have the best so far win the book then Red? Not sure how you'd work that out?

Or we could have a roll-over? :D
I think a roll-over would be fairest Matt - worry not, I enjoy giving things away!

Red

[British Red]

I think a roll-over would be fairest Matt - worry not, I enjoy giving things away!

Red
Geoff - thanks for that..

errrr Colder?

Red

[Toadflax]

Geoff - thanks for that..

errrr Colder?

Red

OK - thanks - I wonder how many degrees it dropped by between the two guesses...but I bet you're not going to tell me! So I'll go for one more to get the 25.

1. Sycamore
2. Alder
3. Elder
4. Poplar
5. Hemlock
6. Cherry
7. Oak
8. London Plane
9. Hornbeam
10. Scots Pine

It's a shame that my Mum and Dad won't benefit from my increasing desperation on this, but hopefully someone else will. :( :)


Geoff

[British Red]

It is a fantastic cause Geoff and I wish my grandparents could have had the benefit of your generosity

No cigar this time.

The best score is now


.............................. ..........................



6/10


As a final hint, with a cut off time for answers of 5pm, I am happy to reveal that every tree in the quiz has been named (although not necessarily in the right place). I'm also happy to reveal that they are all trees that are possible to find growing wild and not (in my view at least) really odd ones like a bean tree.

Have fun!

Red

[Mirius]

Last time for me then :D

1. Horse Chestnut
2. Alder
3. Elder
4. Oak
5. Walnut
6. Cherry
7. Sycamore
8. London Plane.
9. Hornbeam
10. Scots Pine

[Toadflax]

OK - after lots of manipulation of all the answers and clues on a spreadsheet.

1. Horse Chestnut
2. Alder
3. Spruce
4. Ash
5. Holly
6. Rowan
7. Oak
8. London Plane
9. Hornbeam
10. Scots Pine

[EDIT]Not sure now - these fit most of the clues but after going through them again they don't seem to fit all of the clues. Arrrrgghhh! :banghead:

Geoff (waiting with bated breath)

[British Red]

:D

Still no cigar guys.

Interestingly though there is now only one tree that no-one has given the correct name to. It has however been given to other trees in the quiz.

Still no-one above 6/10 btw............

An hour to go

I can always eat the jerky myself................

Red.

[SOAR]

Here goes then

1Sycamore
2 Hawthorn
3 Elder
4 Poplar
5 Lime
6 Rowan
7 Oak
8 London Plane
9 Horse Chestnut
10 Scotts Pine

[Toadflax]

I'm afraid that I'm burned out on this now. I started looking again just now after Red's most recent posting but I've had enough. You win Mr Red, but thanks for the challenge. :)


Geoff

[Matt Weir]

C'mon then Red, please put us out of our misery and onto our path of bark knowledge :D

[Toadflax]

Give the nasty man a break, Matt! :D He did say 5pm and he's probably busy eating chocolate brazil nuts at the moment. :lmao:

But seriously, there may be a late entry


Geoff

[Mirius]

Oooooh, you are such a tease Red!

One last go, and only because I suddenly reconsidered something.

1. Horse Chestnut
2. Alder
3. Elder
4. Oak
5. Hawthorn
6. Holly
7. Larch
8. London Plane.
9. Hornbeam
10. Yew

[SOAR]

One last try I'll change things around abit.

1 Sycamore
2 Alder
3 Pear
4 Oak
5 Maple
6 Cherry
7 Poplar
8 London Plane
9 Lime
10 Scotts Pine

[British Red]

Sorry guys - been out listening to the owls with Bushwacker Bob and shooting the breeze


Right - here's the answer!

1 – Horse Chestnut
2 – Alder
3 – Elder
4- Field Maple
5 – Grey Poplar
6 – Holly
7 – Oak
8 – London Plane
9 – Hornbeam
10 – Scots Pine


Thanks for playing :)

All the trees were guessed at some point - I'm surprised and impressed people did as well as they did.

I promise more competitions to come with the roll over

Red

[SOAR]

Good quiz Red, hard though to ID from just the bark. I think I went round in circles on this one. Look forward to the next.

Simon.

[Matt Weir]

Nice one Red, great thread. Looking forward to the roll-over, I just hope it's not one of my area's of great expertise - I don't want to win my own book you know (yeah right :o :lmao:)

[British Red]

Glad you enjoyed it guys - it is very tricky. People often say "pay attention to the bark" and I think it does help - some trees have particularly distinctive bark (the cammo pattern of a London Plane for example), but its just a piece of the jigsaw and very hard when its the only clue (instead of one of many)

I'll scratch my head for a few days over the next one

Red

[Toadflax]

Many thanks for a competition that has, at times, been challenging, frustrating, exhilarating and downright hard work. To paraphrase a common saying: "I can't see the bark for the leaves". I don't think I'll ever look at a tree in the same way again. It has been a good education in how to observe and, with my particular interest in wild food, has also been a lesson in how I should look at food plants.


Geoff

[British Red]

I learned something tomight when Bushwacker Bob told me the brownish hue to the poplar tree is because a large mammal (horse / cow etc.) has used it as a rubbing post.

Every day's a school day :)

Red

[addo]

Cheers Red, I think I did better on my first guess before moving everything around. Its amazing how the same tree can look so different in the bark due to age, location etc and how several trees can look the same. Today I found an Alder, Lime, and Oak all mature that looked v.similar. A young sesile oak with smooth silvery bark, with a slightly older one looking like goat willow. You rearly need all of the pieces most of the time like you say.
Cheers for the quiz, look forward to the next one. Winter buds & Bark?

[British Red]

hmmm maybe - I was thinking I might go all "Ask the Family" on you (I know I'm showing my age) - they used to do some "mystery objects" photographed from odd angles or extreme zoom etc.

Red

[Matt Weir]

hmmm maybe - I was thinking I might go all "Ask the Family" on you (I know I'm showing my age) - they used to do some "mystery objects" photographed from odd angles or extreme zoom etc.

Red

Oh yes, do it, please Red :You_Rock_

[Richie O]

My guess is

1 – Horse Chestnut
2 – Alder
3 – Elder
4- Field Maple
5 – Grey Poplar
6 – Holly
7 – Oak
8 – London Plane
9 – Hornbeam
10 – Scots Pine

And i bought beer for the kids outside the off licence...

Am i too late :p
hehe

[Matt Weir]

-----------------------------------

[andy_bell]

Doh! i was going to buy a clue with a random act of kindness but its all over now. oh well that old lady can probably pick herself and her shopping up anyway.

ps, I didn 't get half of them without the answers, thanks for the challenge.

[robin wood]

Ok I have not taken the time to look through everyone elses but will have a shot. i reckon 3 or 4 are pretty charachteristic, there are others that are very difficult without a scale to give us an idea of how old the tree is, so many start with a smoothisn bark and only develop more characteristic features later.

1 sycamore an old one
2 willow
3 elder
4 ash
5 beech
6 holly
7 pear hard from such a small section could be oak
8 plane (london)
9 oak a young one
10 pine (scotts)

[robin wood]

Now how silly do I feel, Ill look at the last post before I rply next time....hadn't realised the answer had already been posted.

[Toadflax]

Well, this competition did me some good.

Having never knowingly seen a plane tree in my life before, it's remarkable how many I'm now seeing since I learned their bark from this competition. To be fair, the bark is pretty distinctive, but I have walked past some of these trees every day for years and never noticed it.



Geoff :)