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bushcraftbob
12-11-2007, 18:13
I have a 2 yr old GoreTex jacket which is in good nick, apart from getting moisture coming through around neck/shoulder area in heavy rain.

Is Nikwax T-Direct any good or can anyone recommend another re-proofer? I have seen a spray-on re-proofer by Grangers anybody used this? Im a bit sceptical about these products but obviously much cheaper then getting a new jacket!!!

ta

tommy the cat
12-11-2007, 18:26
I thoroughly recommend Nickwax products! Excellent stuff use all of them footwear etc.
Now I have only used the wash in gore stuff but it has seemed to work.I would probably use the direct stuff on my army surplus gear as the tapes in the coat get a bit fragile when they get old and mine didn't like being in the washing machine!
DAve

addyb
12-11-2007, 18:28
Bob,

Nikwax works, but I'd suggest that you re-proof the DWR on your jacket with Grangers or the Storm proofing brand. Nikwax is a water based formula and while it is quite environmentally friendly, it doesn't last as long on a garment than Grangers or Storm. Those two are flourocarbon based proofings and while they are not so "green" if you catch my drift, the proofing lasts much longer and also repels more water. The genius of flourocarbon based proofings is that they are heat activated, which means that you can re-invigorate the proofing simply by tossing the garment into your clothes dryer on medium heat for a few minutes. It works wonder.

I hope this helps.

Cheers,

Adam

Post Script: Rather than a spray on proofing, I suggest that you purchase or use the wash in variety.

sheepdogbob
12-11-2007, 18:34
Bushcraftbob, first the bad news - you've worn the jacket out!

However, the design of the material is a sandwich with the Gore-Tex in the middle, so no repair is possible without de-laminating the basic cloth; once you've accepted this, this means that you can anything to the thing that you can stand to look at!

Option 1) Use tent reproofer on the surface that rubs (presumably the rucksack staps), and build up several thin layers; this will need to be redone on a regular basis.

Option 2) Sew an extra layer of 100% waterproof nylon across the sholders, this will not "breath" but in practice it does'nt matter.

Option 3) Do what I do, ignore the problem; and wear a thick WOOL jumper under the waterproof to soak up the extra water and redistribute it to newer, less worn areas.

Sickboy
12-11-2007, 21:00
Depends when your jacket leaks, if your not wearing a rucsac and it's still seeping through then your jacket is indeed knackered, if it's only when your wearing a sac then it maybe that it's sweat building up as the outer material has wetted out and causing condensation on the inside?

Try proofing with a good cleaner (nikwax) then proof it through any means you feel fit, TX-direct or a spray on. Had best results from granger wash in proofer. Make sure you rinse out your machine first as any detergent residue will make thing worse.

Wear a white T-shirt and put your jacket on, then get in the shower (cold) if you get wet it's the bin or back to the shop and send it back, goretex has a lifetime warrenty so aslong as the outer or inner fabric isnt damaged and it's in good general nick (no holes, tears or fraying etc) then this will be your failsafe and it should be replaced (sounds unrepairable to me. A good goretex jacket should last many years of normal use, If it's army surplus then who knows :rolleyes:

bushcraftbob
13-11-2007, 14:28
Addyb - what is DWR?

I applied the Nikwax Techwash to it last night, then used the TX Direct wash-in reproofer. Can I then apply the Grangers stuff on top??

CHEERS FOR THE ADVICE CHAPS

h2o
13-11-2007, 16:13
was it in nikwax tech wash or tx10 ive used tx 10 on bivi bags it does work

John Fenna
13-11-2007, 17:08
D - durable W - water R - repellancy/resistance
Basically they spray the fabric with silicone or similar so that it lies flat and does not bind on itself when laying out layers of fabric to cut out the garment. They found it hard to wash the treatment out before selling the garments so it became "an added benifit" as it also helped rain bead on the fabric and run off......at least that is what I have been told...
DWR = water beading treatment on the face of fabrics.

bushcraftbob
13-11-2007, 18:27
I bought a little double pack from Blacks with the Tech Was and the TX Direct together. Yippee its raining will test out me 'new jacket' on the way home from work...

Sickboy
13-11-2007, 23:21
Have never tried double coating with TX direct and grangers, it might work ?
DWR does it's main business stopping the outer fabric wetting out (absorbing all the water it can) thus allowing the Gore-tex or whatever other membrane/coating that the jacket uses to make it totally waterproof keep it's breathability. Once this outer fabric becomes soaked you no longer have a breathable jacket causing sweat/condensation on the inside.
In an ideal world the DWR coating would bead the rain on contact and it would simply roll off, thus not needing any membrane at all and giving you a very light and superbly breathable jkt, BUT as soon as pressure pushes moisture against the face fabric it would go straight through. Hence the need for Gore-tex and it's ilk.
You can steel push water through Gore-tex by kneeling in a puddle but your rucsac won't be able to create such pressures. It's all down to hydrostatic head.
Anyway enough of my strange little tangent, DWR is important to your comfort and TX direct is used to top this up (other proofers are available :rolleyes: ) keeping your very expensive jkt breathable.......

p.s As an example, if you've tried a really good breathable windproof you'll know you can happily run in it and not get too sweaty, try doing the same in 3 layer goretex and you'll be in the st johns before you know it. Both will use the same DWR coating, very similar outer materials but the windproof will be lacking the membrane/coating of the waterproof :)

malente
15-11-2007, 21:38
hi mate,

hold on hold on hold on.

all might not be lost. instead of jusrt treating it with some stuff and expecting wonders, try this:

1. wash the jacket with perfume free soap - 60deg. long wash - cleans pores and restores full breathability. reason for moisture inside jacket is often more likely due to lost breathability than actual leakage (i.e. persipation).

2. tumble dry it on high heat - this restores water repellency - this really works. optionally you could then (and only then) use some kind of reproofing (see below).

remember that applying any reproofing (only apply it to the outside of the jacket (!). Also remember that this only restores/ improves the water repellency, not waterproofness!

hope this helps.

mike

Sickboy
15-11-2007, 22:15
Or if your scared of throwing a expensive jacket in a tumble dryer on furnice setting then you can use a hairdryer :eek:

malente
16-11-2007, 10:27
Or if your scared of throwing a expensive jacket in a tumble dryer on furnice setting then you can use a hairdryer :eek:

lol, or try it with low heat first :D

Also, I forgot to mention: no fabric softener/ conditioner. That destroys the jacket.:eek:

Mike

Zodiak
18-11-2007, 03:07
Depends when your jacket leaks, if your not wearing a rucsac and it's still seeping through then your jacket is indeed knackered, if it's only when your wearing a sac then it maybe that it's sweat building up as the outer material has wetted out and causing condensation on the inside? My jackets normally go on the right shoulder then left hip, why? Car seatbelt :(

I have just bought a new coat and am making a point of leaving it unzipped and pulling the collar down so that the belt is on my jumper and not the coat.

I agree its a pain when a coat goes but I extened the useful life of my last one for a year by wearing a decent fleece under neath and a high vis waitcoat with plastic shoulder on top :lmao:

addyb
18-11-2007, 07:29
Sickboy is right on the money, without a DWR gore-tex, entrant, and any and all WPB garments would not be breathable. Period. As wonderful as gore-tex is, the sad fact of the matter is that without a good DWR, the garment is next to useless. You might as well be wrapping your torso in saran wrap while you do physical activity. Myself, I'm a complete convert to 'old school' natural outdoor fabrics such as Ventile, G-1000 and the like. There is a place for WPB garments, no doubt about that but the way I see, they're highly overrated.

Adam

sandbag47
18-11-2007, 14:36
my jacket needs doing badly (it adout 10 years old now and still going strong)..i'm thinking of going with the grangers product which is the best the wash in or the spray on..malente wrote that the jacket should only be re-proofed on the outside...any advise folks...what do the rest of you think.

Sickboy
18-11-2007, 15:52
my jacket needs doing badly (it adout 10 years old now and still going strong)..i'm thinking of going with the grangers product which is the best the wash in or the spray on..malente wrote that the jacket should only be re-proofed on the outside...any advise folks...what do the rest of you think.

Depends really, if you've not reproofed it in a decade then i would go for a wash-in job, giving it a good coating allover, but if it's just the shoulders then give it a wash (techwash or the like) and use a spray in the neccesary areas. Wash in proofers tend to last longer but sprayons are better when under rucsacs etc.
Wouldnt worry about getting proofer on the inside of the jacket (unless it's insulated in some way) as it won't inhibit breathablity and doesnt make a huge difference to the feel of the inner lining either:)

malente
18-11-2007, 18:18
Depends really, if you've not reproofed it in a decade then i would go for a wash-in job, giving it a good coating allover, but if it's just the shoulders then give it a wash (techwash or the like) and use a spray in the neccesary areas. Wash in proofers tend to last longer but sprayons are better when under rucsacs etc.
Wouldnt worry about getting proofer on the inside of the jacket (unless it's insulated in some way) as it won't inhibit breathablity and doesnt make a huge difference to the feel of the inner lining either:)

Hi folks :)

I agree! The only point about not treating the inner side od the jacket with water repellency is that any transpiration is repelled back to the wearer :rolleyes: . I also personally think it makes my GTX XCR jacket more sweaty (maybe because of that?)...? The DWR treatment should't in any way influence the 'breathability' (at least in theory)...

Actually, I also tend to revert to old skool these days like addyb (getting old myself I guess), I love my G-1000 pants and my barbour wax jacket :D. I just saw a long heavy wooly coat, this might be a complete alternative (who wants to look like a tourist clad in gore tex anyway:p ;) )

Have fun in the great outdoors, wet or dry!

Mike