View Full Version : Oh dear, I just chopped my leg! (scenario)
OK so here's the scenario
Your on an overnight camp and have to chop up some firewood with your axe.
While chopping you misjudge the swing and you end up with a rather large cut in your leg with blood going everywhere.
You take out your first aid kit and......
??????
???
?????
What equipment should you have with you to accomodate such an accident?
what do you do?
TheViking
27-07-2004, 16:53
Hi...
'Butterfly' sutures....... and knowledge to sew such a wound. :wink: :biggthump Off course it depends, how deep the wound is. Very deep = sutures. Not so deep = maybe a big bandage would be enough...
In my opinion.... :biggthump
Currently I have shell dressings for that job ... but depending on the cut these can really just be something to soak up blood until no more remains. Shell dressing are OK but if I got it bad enough it could be major bad news.
Over a year ago I chopped the back of my hand with an axe (actually, I raised my hand and caught it on the blade) and went right to the moving parts above the knuckle of my left hand. Long story short, this was treated at home and the results were just a scar (that's moved to below the knuckle now for some reason).
From this I'd say the following:
- Don't underestimate how far a little blood goes ...
- Make sure you have quality first aid gear ... i went into the first aid box for a dressing and found that the bandage was wrapped around it and I had to unwrap the whole thing (dropping the absorbent pad on the floor in the process). This was wrapped and sealed up like this from new - a silly way in my opinion
- Elevate and apply compression. Know pressure points to slow down major bleeding
- Drink plenty to replenish lost fluids.
- Stay calm!
I have heard of a product called QuikClot (http://www.quikclot.com/) that seems really promising but never tried it :shock: so I can't comment on it but it seems good.
With this type of injury, prevention is much, much better than cure!
Aha but your going to have to slow down the flow of blood first surely? Would you use a torniquet or what? What if you do it too tight and your circulation stops??
Hi...
'Butterfly' sutures....... and knowledge to sew such a wound. :wink: :biggthump Off course it depends, how deep the wound is. Very deep = sutures. Not so deep = maybe a big bandage would be enough...
In my opinion.... :biggthump
Aha but your going to have to slow down the flow of blood first surely? Would you use a torniquet or what? What if you do it too tight and your circulation stops??
TheViking
27-07-2004, 17:09
A deep wound where the arterie, is hit there must be tight pressure on. A headscarf or the like, would be good. Wrap it to a ball and press hard on the wound to stop the blood from flowing. And try to get the wound over heart-height. :wink:
SquirrelBoy
27-07-2004, 17:15
OK so here's the scenario
Your on an overnight camp and have to chop up some firewood with your axe.
While chopping you misjudge the swing and you end up with a rather large cut in your leg with blood going everywhere.
You take out your first aid kit and......
????
Faint, probably... :rolmao:
With a sharp tool, unless you hit a largish pipe of the red stuff, you might be surprised how little blood there is initially.
initially...
Well, yeah ... overall though, unless you hit something big, cut for cut, a sharp tool cut bleeds less than a blunt or jagged tool. However, big, sharp tools like axes alow you to get enthusiastic and do real damage.
Aha but your going to have to slow down the flow of blood first surely? Would you use a torniquet or what? What if you do it too tight and your circulation stops??
Recently, I (very stupidly) cut my thumb knuckle to the bone with my LM Wave saw. I refused to go to hospital for stitches as I didn't want to spoil the weekend. It just so happened that one of our friends coming away with us is an A & E nurse so she sorted it out. She made me put pressure on the cut but once she had put the first steri-strip on I didn't need to put pressure on any more because that was enough to stop any more flow.
I was amazed!
Obviously this was only a small scale cut (Inch 'n' half long) and I doubt it would work for anything much bigger!
Aha but your going to have to slow down the flow of blood first surely? Would you use a torniquet or what?
Use only with EXTREME caution. If you tourniquet a limb, you will cut off the blood supply to everything distal to the tourniquet - goodbye limb!
If you suspect you've severed a major artery (you'll know it if you have, trust me), then a tourniquet may be the only way to stop you bleeding to death, but it may cost you a limb in the process.
Firm, direct, localised pressure is the way to go in most cases, and as others have mentioned, elevate the limb. Then get to hospital ASAP.
On an aside, if you're heading into the woods with sharps big enough to do some real damage (ie. and axe or a billhook), then a large bloodstopper bandage or military type field dressing in your FAK, is a really good idea.
Martyn, any good field dressings available that you'd recommend, or jsut the standard military field dressing?
Also, any experience of QuikClot?
i t bought a "isreali bandage", the emgency bandage. http://www.firstcareproducts.com/ the cilivlian version not to long ago. Haven't used it fortunaly, but it looks good on the picture's i have seen and the reviews about it. This things is semi vacum packed, but is still very big compaired to my dutch army field dressing. The pressure bar and closure bar look much easier to use than the dutch filed dressing, which i did tryed out, the bandage on the filed dressing is very thin and doesn;t want to stay spread.
if i just planted an axe in my leg or arm thats proberbly the thing i will grabe. And than go to the hospital right away.
Martyn, any good field dressings available that you'd recommend, or jsut the standard military field dressing?
Also, any experience of QuikClot?
Nothing particularly Adi, just a general all purpose bloodstopper - that's a bandage with a big wad of absorbent material to cover the wound. There's nothing magical about dressing a wound at this point, all you need is big wads of sterile absorbant stuff, with a metod of tightly attaching it. The military bandages are as good as any I suppose. But if you're interested in tyhe commercially available civillian stuff, a good place to look for all your med supplies is SP Services ( http://www.999supplies.com ), we use em at work for some things and they do outfit emergency services personnel/vehoicles etc.
This looks cool...
http://www.999supplies.com/product_info.php/cPath/91/products_id/2558
I like the method of applying pressure, though it's not a dressing I've personally used, or could recommend in any way, but it looks to be a gpood solution, if a little fancy.
Sorry, I've never heard of QuikClot.
ChrisKavanaugh
28-07-2004, 07:30
http://www.usuhs.mil/uao/Release03-05.pdf Go to www.equipped.org and do a basic search for quikclot. We have several inputs from paramedics and a retired military doctor. Briefly, the agent becomes hot after contact with water and causes severe burns.It was a tossup if the wound was life threatening enough to warrant that additional injury. I submit another set of protocols: Your camped out and preparing to chop wood for the fire. Reaching for the Granfors Bruk/Wetterling you pause, recall reading this thread and shiver at the thought. You take a deep breath, scratch various body parts, regrip your axe and cut with extreme caution and deliberation.
1. Keep calm
2. Put and field dressing on the wound and keep pressure on it (aleays carry a field dressing on you) if you do not have a field dressing put your hand on the wound and keep it under pressure and then use a pice of clot or something that will keep a pressure on the wound.
3. Pick up your cell phone and if you are badly hurt call an ambulance and tell where you are or tell them to meet you on the nearest road or other place wher thy can get to. If the wound is not critical call someone you know and tell them what happend and where you are and what you are going to do (walk back stay the night). The make sure you call back every hour or so just to let them know you are ok.
If you dont have the knowledge to fix wounds made from an axe, dont bring the axe with you out in the wilderness.
Your camped out and preparing to chop wood for the fire. Reaching for the Granfors Bruk/Wetterling you pause, recall reading this thread and shiver at the thought. You take a deep breath, scratch various body parts, regrip your axe and cut with extreme caution and deliberation.
:biggthump :You_Rock_
Viking is right.
If you are only on an overnight the chances are that you are not far from help and so it's probably best to use it.
Dressing your own wounds can be quite tricky for even the most experienced first aider(try dressing your dominant hand for example) and you may not always make the most sound judgements.
Pressure, Elevate, seek medical aid.
The shortest FA course I heard:
"If their not breathing, breath for them,
If their hearts not beating, pump it for them,
If its bleeding, plug it,
If ist burnt, cool it
and if its broken, keep it still."
Keep it simple and you won't forget
MartiniDave
28-07-2004, 08:52
As well as all the excellent advice above remember that prevention IS better than cure. Learn to use your cutting tools in a safe manner, and practice with them initially where you can get help quickly.
Don't forget the old first-aid standby of wadding up triangular bandages to help stem blood flow. Also consider getting some formal first aid training.
Dave
1. Keep calm
2. Put and field dressing on the wound and keep pressure on it (aleays carry a field dressing on you) if you do not have a field dressing put your hand on the wound and keep it under pressure and then use a pice of clot or something that will keep a pressure on the wound.
3. Pick up your cell phone and if you are badly hurt call an ambulance and tell where you are or tell them to meet you on the nearest road or other place wher thy can get to. If the wound is not critical call someone you know and tell them what happend and where you are and what you are going to do (walk back stay the night). The make sure you call back every hour or so just to let them know you are ok.
I am with the viking on this, there was a mention of a field dressing being used, the issue field dressings are designed to be able to open them so that you do not contaminate the surface of the absorbant pad.
There is also a specific way that the dressing is bound onto the limb, you work the binding or bandage around the dressing so that you cover the dressing as well as just above and below the dressing itself, this gives compression over a larger area reducing the the blood flow and reducing the tourniquet effect (one area of compression which is narrow) as well as semi-sealing the edges of the dressing.
In all the dressing (which allows the blood to clot), with the compression provided by the bandageing on the dressing (slowing the blood flow) should do the job, but you can also lie down and elevate the limb above your heart level (rest it on your daysack or a log basically anything that will raise your leg by around 12 to 18 inches).
If it is not arterial, whilst you are down there put on a cup of tea and try to relax, if you smoke have a cigarette, it will help you relax and the tea will help to replace lost fluids and sugars.
If it continues to bleed heavilly get help, use your phone, whistle anything to attract attention to your location, but stay calm.
TheViking
28-07-2004, 09:36
Hi... :biggthump
I have something to add. In Rambo (think it was no. 2) he opens a bullet and puts the gunpowder in the wound. I've been told that this was wrong. (And hurts like sh*t)
In 24 hours (if you've seen season 3) the young guy takes a hot ironpiece and 'stops the bleeding' by burning the wound in his hand. Everybody should know that it's wrong and yet I haven't seen any 1. aid book who has mentioned this. I'm not a doctor, but burning the wound only makes it worse, in my mind. :wink:
MartiniDave
28-07-2004, 10:05
As someone who has loaded literally thousands of rifle and pistol cartridges I'm telling you there aint no way you'll pull a bullet without at least 2 pairs of pliers. We used special kit for that job, teeth just won't do it. I don't want to think about what might be in the burnt powder either!
Dave
TheViking
28-07-2004, 10:28
Hi...
In the survival manual made by Garth Hattingh, he explains that if you need tinder, you can open a bullet and take the powder from there... But does this mean that there's no way this is possible without a pair of pliers? (by the way, I think it's a horrible and dangerous way to do it, because gunpowder is a very unstabil substance!) If someone is even going to open a bullet, they must have military experience. :biggthump
The process of placeing a red hot bar onto an open wound is called cauterization, it can be used to seal off what medical people tend to refer to as "open Vessels".
Due to the fact the tool used to do it is sterile (because of the heat) it is not unlikely that it could be used, but I would have thought that the pain from doing it would more than likely make you pass out.
Now you have a burn injury and burns are highly susceptible to infection, on this you would need to talk to a medical proffessional. I know that cauterization is still used in a medical/controlled enviroment, but to what extent is another matter.
And the Rambo films should be taken with a pinch of salt at the best of times, there are far too many effects from primary and secondary projectile injuries to think that this would sort out the problem on its own. :-)
TheViking
28-07-2004, 10:51
Hi...
As said i'm not a doctor, but you're right. Burning a wound will only give you both a burn and a bleeding wound to deal with. And the burn will tap water from your body and you will also waste precious energy in healing such a big wound again. But I don't know anything about how doctors burn wounds or projectile wounds. No, stick to the good old thumb......... You always have it with you and it can stop a bleeding...! :wink: :biggthump :-)
I think it’s worth mentioning how dangerous a tourniquet can be. If not used correctly the whole limb can be lost.
I personally would only use one if the other methods has failed (Direct pressure, pressure points)and the casualty has a good chance dieing if one was not used.
If you are using a one remember to slowly release the tourniquet every 15 minutes so blood can reticulate the limb. I was always told to take it off slowly as a quick rush of blood to the wound could knock the clot off.
I’d go for direct pressure to the wound by whatever means .elevate if this fails apply pressure to the appropriate pressure point until bleeding slows. Stay calm. Get help. Job done.
Cheers
Den :-P
frog71_uk
28-07-2004, 12:18
When I did my first aid training, I was told that a tourniquet should only be
applied as a very last resort, i.e. very specifically when no one else is around that can go and alert medics for you. If someone else is around, send them and maintain pressure. If not, apply the tourniquet, and importantly write down the time you applied it, and leave this info visible on your "patient" FAO medics. (on a piece of paper pinned to his / her shirt, or in blood on his / her forehead if you have no paper). Then go and get help after covering the person with a blanket, jacket ... and, it may sound daft, but pay good notice to your location so you can give clear indications to the rescue team.
We were told very clearly NEVER EVER to release the tourniquet, as the toxins that accumulate in the limb while the tourniquet is applied have the potential to poison the victim if released in the bloodstream. This means that yes the limb may be lost, the alternative being blood poisoning (death).
Guys, this is what I was taught, I am no expert and never had to put it in practice (thank God). If there are any doctors reading this and I am wrong, please correct me.
In fact, the only advice I would like to give is this: take a first aid course: it's cheap, it's very interesting, and you never know ... they say that a good number of people could be saved each year if people knew the basic of first aid - at least enough to raise alert and keep people alive while the specialists arrive ...
Anyway, enough preaching :roll:
http://www.redcross.org.uk/subsection.asp?id=33838&cachefixer=cf121625709883027
Cheers
Ok let's change the scenario abit
Your deep in the wilderness miles away from civilisation and the same thing happens with the axe.
You have no phone and no other means of getting help, to get out it would take a arduous 3 day hike and seeing as you had an axe imbedded in your leg a few minutes ago that seems pretty impossible, you have not cut an artery but you are losing blood fast
You are in an area surrounded by mossy vegetation which you use as a dressing (your FAK has only small bandages)
At night you get a fever and the next day you realise your wound has been infected.....Dun Dun Duuuuuuunnnn!! :yikes:
What Now????
What would you use instead of moss if it was available??
What kit would you take so you can make sure that such a scenario never arrives??
How would you prevent infection??
The team medics in the armed forces are taught that if a tourniquet is used the subject will almost certainly lose whatever limb it has been used on from somewhere around six inches above the tourniquets application, and that the tourniquet is only to be used as a last resort and that the tourniquet is BANNED in the whole of Western Europe (this last one could be a scare tactic so that it is only used as a last resort).
Once again the medical pro's on here could probably inform better.
Roving Rich
28-07-2004, 12:41
Now i don't suggest you try this on a major axe wound....
But apparently Yarrow - the little fluffy feathery stuff found growing among grass, is really good for staunching the flow of blood. I have been told that you pick it, chew it up then apply it directly to the wound. It is supposed to slow the flow and help it clot. I haven't tried it yet, but bare it in mind, and try it next time you have a minor cut. I'd like to know how well it works, so any volunteers :o):
Rich
Ok let's change the scenario abit
Your deep in the wilderness miles away from civilisation and the same thing happens with the axe.
You have no phone and no other means of getting help, to get out it would take a arduous 3 day hike and seeing as you had an axe imbedded in your leg a few minutes ago that seems pretty impossible, you have not cut an artery but you are losing blood fast
You are in an area surrounded by mossy vegetation which you use as a dressing (your FAK has only small bandages)
At night you get a fever and the next day you realise your wound has been infected.....Dun Dun Duuuuuuunnnn!! :yikes:
What Now????
What would you use instead of moss if it was available??
What kit would you take so you can make sure that such a scenario never arrives??
How would you prevent infection??
If you are going to use moss, this has to be dried and cleaned before it can be used. If I would have forgot my first aid I would use a cooton cloth t-shirt or whatever i would have with me and make sure there is a pressure on the wound.
Then you got to analyze the situation. If there is areally deep wound I would check the map for the closest and easiest way to civilisation. If it would be a minor cut and I would be in control of it, I would crawl down in my sleeping bag, drink something warm and get me something to eat and prepare for a long journey the nest day.
I cut my hand with an axe a couple of months back, it was a pretty deep wound and there was a lot of blood, but with a good first aid kit I could handle it all well and then get eat some food and crawl down i my sleeping bag to get some sleep and the nest day I walked back.
Things like this happens when least expect so be well prepared so you don´t have to worry what to do if you would cut yourself.
Once again I'm going to say that prevention is better than cure. Take steps to prevent the injury in the first place but if that didn't work, take steps to prevent infection before it sets in. This includes thorough cleaning of the wound with irrigation of clean water, water with puritabs added or potassium permanganage. If I had antibiotics in my FAK, I would take a dose early, again, just in case (I would take care here and only carry something that I knew I wasn't allergic to or have a reaction to).
Would I stay in the area and await rescue or try to make my way out? Dunno, a lot depends on what I know of the area ... Is it popular? Is it out of the way? How close is civilization? What signalling tools do I have? How do I feel? Does anyone know where I am? How long until I'm declared missing?
Gathering intelligence about the area you are going to go to is vital ... think from many levels and angles. Think about accidents and escape routes. Think about the routes and roads in the area and try to accertain how busy they are. Gather as much info as you can before you are there ... chances are you won't need most of it but if you do you'll make desicions on the ground based on this, which is a lot better than guesses!
Ok let's change the scenario abit
Your deep in the wilderness miles away from civilisation and the same thing happens with the axe.
You have no phone and no other means of getting help, to get out it would take a arduous 3 day hike and seeing as you had an axe imbedded in your leg a few minutes ago that seems pretty impossible, you have not cut an artery but you are losing blood fast
You are in an area surrounded by mossy vegetation which you use as a dressing (your FAK has only small bandages)
What Now????
What would you use instead of moss if it was available??
What kit would you take so you can make sure that such a scenario never arrives??
How would you prevent infection??
Most infections in this part of the world do not take that sort of effect that quickly.
The principles are exactly the same, you need to staunch the blood flow, and clean the area.
It doesn't matter that you are not carrying a field dressing, you say you have small bandages, even a small bandage will normally go around a limb a number of times, is the bandage crepe or open weave, if it is open weave you will have to improvise a sterile pad, the only purpose of the pad is to help staunch the blood flow by allowing it to coagulate (moss will do the job).
Compression and elevation are to be used, most people carry some form of pain killer, do you carry something that is based on Ibuprofen? If you do use it since this is also an anti inflammatory which will reduce inflammation in the wound area.
If when you dressed the wound in the first place you washed it out with water (preferably fresh) or water with a small amount of potassium permanganate in it, you should of sterilised the area of the injury.
Rest, calm and warm fluids for shock, there is a good chance that when you get up in the morning, you will be able to continue your trip.
If you cannot continue did you put in a trace of your route to the local authority (mountain rescue, coastgaurd or wife)? Did you inform people how long it would take? Have you left actions to be carried out in the event that you are not in touch in a certain period of time? Do you carry anything in the way of safety equipment apart from an ill equipped first aid kit?
These are all considerations for planning a route, even if you are only out for 3 days/nights someone should be aware of these things, especially if you are out alone.
Hi... :biggthump
I have something to add. In Rambo (think it was no. 2) he opens a bullet and puts the gunpowder in the wound. I've been told that this was wrong. (And hurts like sh*t)
In 24 hours (if you've seen season 3) the young guy takes a hot ironpiece and 'stops the bleeding' by burning the wound in his hand. Everybody should know that it's wrong and yet I haven't seen any 1. aid book who has mentioned this. I'm not a doctor, but burning the wound only makes it worse, in my mind. :wink:
Dont do it!
You'll just make a damned great mess that'll cause you a helluva lot of problems - remember, Rambo is fantasy.
Yes we still use cauterization in hospital, but not searing hot iron bars. The process is called Diathermy, and involves an instrument that looks like a large pair of forceps (tweezers), which are connected to an electrical supply. The tips of the diathermy forceps get very hot. The surgeon makes an incision, then goes along the face of the cut tissue, pinching all the little capilaries that have been sliced open with the Diathermy forceps - a little plume of smoke and the capillary is cauterized shut with no damage to the surrounding tissue. But they dont do this with big vessels, they are either clamped for the duration of the surgery, or re-directed if they are needed to provide a vital supply to something.
TheViking
28-07-2004, 14:22
Hi...
Yes, i know. :biggthump I would never handle gunpowder without military knowledge, or the like! :wink: (Maked a bomb myself once from fireworks powder :shock: Good advice from me: don't do it! Though it's exiting, but it's also :censored: unstabil and the size of my bomb was enough to blow of an arm at least)
And here we go: never burn a wound yourself. Only with the necessary equipment and knowledge...! :biggthump :wink:
Been there see that and got the holes in my trousers - billhook and axe.
bung in some salt - hurts like hell but steralises and stops most of the bleeding. Wipe round the edge with a very small amount of whisky form hip flask (don't want to waste to much) to clean up the blood.
Leave to air dry them super glue it skin back together. Works every time and heals well.
As if by magic whilst I was out trying to make a deadfall in my garden i cut my thumb on my axe, it's not serious but thanks to my FAK that I had close to hand i was able to quickly treat it and stop the bleeding quite fast aswell as guarding it against infection as even the smallest of cuts can get infected and cause major problems. However if that's the way the fates want to play it then heres another scenario
A young woodsman nicks his finger whilst using his axe and using his vast medical knowledge :wink: treats it quickly and efficiently. Because of his close shave that could have been far worse he is extra careful around knives and axes and NEVER has an accident involving any sharp implements again. :super: :lol: :o): :wink:
Oh yeah and he becomes filthy rich and very popular with the ladies!
(bit carried away there)
super glue it skin back together. Works every time and heals well.
Ah good old super glue. I’ve used it myself before on small cuts, works a treat. I’ve also glued a tooth back together in the field for six months. I wouldn’t recommend anyone else try this. I did mention this to the dentist who laughed and didn’t appear to have a problem with it.
Cheers
Den :-P
I would never handle gunpowder without military knowledge, or the like!
I'd say the gunpowder debate is all pretty irrelevant. Modern cartridges (rifle, pistol or shotgun) are not filled with gunpowder but with various grades and quantities of nitrocellulose "powder". This is quite stable but explosive if ignited in a closed space. If a spark is dropped on a small quantity (less than a teaspoon full) loosely piled in the open, it just burns (very very quickly). I've burnt off spoilt powder and doubt it would be much use as tinder because it burns too fast.
As someone mentioned, it is very hard to pull the bullet out of a cartridge. If you ignite a round while trying to pull it apart, the case WILL explode, so DON'T. :nono: When making or reloading ammunition as I used to do as a target shooter, the very occasional mis-assembled rounds had to be dismantled to make them safe. This is done with a kinetic bullet puller, not pliers. Not something you usually carry into the field .
Shotgun shells on the other hand are easily cut or broken open and their powder is the slowest burning. I still advise against it though because of the risk of igniting the powder or primer. Except for out and out survival situations it's too easy to have a better alternative.
Alick
Also, any experience of QuikClot?
Adi, you can buy quickclot here in the uk
http://dyna-med.co.uk/quikclot.html
I've wondered about it myself. I first saw it mentioned on donrearic.com - an American site dedicated to self defense against serious violence. It is described under the first-aid section.
Cheers
RovingArcher
29-07-2004, 04:41
[QUOTE=leon-1]Now you have a burn injury and burns are highly susceptible to infection, on this you would need to talk to a medical proffessional. I know that cauterization is still used in a medical/controlled enviroment, but to what extent is another matter.QUOTE]
Placing raw honey directly onto a burn will help to soothe the pain and because bacteria cannot live in raw honey, it will stop any infection from getting into the damaged area. It will also help the healing process and in many instances eliminates scaring. Good stuff to have along when you need a jolt of quick clean burning fuel for energy or other medicinal purposes. Sweetens fairly well too. :wink:
Thanks RA, I will have to include some in my FAK, however will have to stop myself from putting it on everything edible/drinkable, the last thing I want is dental hassles. :o):
Placing raw honey directly onto a burn will help to soothe the pain and because bacteria cannot live in raw honey, it will stop any infection from getting into the damaged area. It will also help the healing process and in many instances eliminates scaring. Good stuff to have along when you need a jolt of quick clean burning fuel for energy or other medicinal purposes. Sweetens fairly well too. :wink:
If the burn is bad, all you should use is lots of cold water and clingfilm. If you have an aqueous burns gel in your FAK, then use that under the clingfilm. It's true, honey impregnated dressings are sometimes used for certain types of injuries in some institutions or so I gather, but as far as I know, the medical literature is inconclusive about it's use. You certainly should not use honey on a bad burn just before calling for medical help, you'll just end up in an awful lot of pain as they try and sponge off the sticky, gooey mess from your burnt flesh.
You know, I know everone is searching for a bushcrafty, medical, magic bullet here, but it doesnt exist. You'd all be well advised to forget all about turniquets, gunpowder, superglue, sphagnum moss, burning yourself with hot irons, honey, self-sutureing or home brain surgery. leave it to Rambo and the professional medics. There's a lot of good advice in this thread, but there are a lot of "fringe" suggestions too that are frankly harmful or even potentially life threatening. There are very, very few places in the UK where you cant get prompt and excellent medical attention in very short order. If you need it, use it. You *might* get away with using some of the "fringe" suggestions, but then again, you might not. You may very well end up doing far more bad than good. Do yourself a favour, use FA dressings that you've got from Boots. :wink:
My professional advice is this:
If you've got a serious wound, apply direct and firm pressure, use a blood stopper bandage if you have one, if you dont, use the cleanest piece of material you have available. Elevate your wounded limb if possible and call for help.
If there is another health care professional on this forum with different advice, I'd love to hear it.
You might have an uncle who was in the SAS during the Crimea, and after having his leg blown off with a cannon, was perfectly alright just gaffer-taping it back on but you wont be so lucky. Just raise a glass to his superb courage and fortitude and when it's your turn, call an ambulance. :roll: :biggthump
Very well put Martyn, I only wish I was as goo with words.
May I ask what your profession is?
On a slightly different tact (??), earlier in the year I was on a course with Woodlore one of the other students managed to cut himself pretty well and had to be stri-stripped, but the guys from Woodlore applied a brownish (I think) liquid, normally used for something quite different over the cut because it performs like a glue (again I think that was the purpose??).
Does anybody know what it was?
Very well put Martyn, I only wish I was as goo with words.
May I ask what your profession is?
I'm an RN. I work in an intensive care unit which specialises in the treatment of multiple injuries resulting from trauma.
On a slightly different tact (??), earlier in the year I was on a course with Woodlore one of the other students managed to cut himself pretty well and had to be stri-stripped, but the guys from Woodlore applied a brownish (I think) liquid, normally used for something quite different over the cut because it performs like a glue (again I think that was the purpose??).
Does anybody know what it was?
Sounds like betadine - superb antiseptic, highly recommended. It's basically iodine with povidone added to reduce the sting. It doesnt glue anything, but does form a sort of skin over whatever you paint in on.
Superglue or cyanoacrylate is used in hospital, in the form of a medical preparation called dermabond. But you need training in it's application. What worries me when I see it (superglue) recommended, is that some 14 year old lad is gonna stick a tube in his FAK and then pour it into an open wound one day. He's then gonna need surgery to remove it. For the same reasons, suturing isn't recommended. Suturing is done all the time, but you wont see it taught on first aid courses, because of the skill needed to do it properly and recognise when it's appropriate and inappropriate. There is simply no need. If your wound is bad enough to need stitches, then you should go to hospital and get it stitched there.
Regarding burns of all types, you should only use aqueous based solutions. nothing else is used in hospital or by paramedics. You should soak the burn in as much free flowing, clean, cold water as you can for as long as you can - 10 minutes MINIMUM. The object is to cool down the burnt flesh and minimise/stop further tissue damage. After a really good soaking with cold water, the wound should be protected with something with minimal adherance - cling film is perfect. Proprietry burns dressings are just sterile clingfilm. Again, the object is to minimise further tissue damage, while protecting the suseptible tissues from infection. Hospitals stopped using things like Jellonet (a vaseline impregnated gauze dressing) some time ago. It adheres to the wound and it also insulates it a little - both undesireable charicteristics. Dont use honey! It may have some properties that are useful, but it's sticky and insulative. It will keep the heat in the wound, exacerbating tissue damage and it'll be hell to get off (you'll take your skin off with the bandage).