View Full Version : Ventile Poncho
littlebiglane
03-09-2007, 18:34
Just dipping my toe in the water here. But who would be interested in a group buy of a ventile poncho - single layer with double layer shoulders & hood made by Hilltrek Ventile. Simple design (to keep price down) and large enough to cover a rucksack. Would anyone be initially interested. I am asking about a price from them as I write this.....
Yep sounds interesting keep the info coming.....
Let us know about the price and I might be tempted.
Simon.
Same as previous, depends on price.
Could be interested if it's big enough to sleep under.
Woodcutter
04-09-2007, 16:35
Like the sound of that, more details please, but pencil me in for now. Thanks.
John Fenna
04-09-2007, 16:36
Tell me more....
John
might be interested, would go with Waylands comment though.
Cheers
JFW
I'm interested, would depend on the price ultimately though...
beachlover
05-09-2007, 20:37
I'm interested too please.
This sounds very gucci, it would be an awful lot quieter than my DPM one, but I would be interested in the pack size and weight of a ventile poncho in comparison to my army one:22: . Not to put a a spanner in the works its just that Im not that familar with those aspects of ventile cotton...:confused:
littlebiglane
09-09-2007, 16:11
I have just heard from Dave at Hilltrek. He has looked at the comments (size, weight, pack-size, cost) on this thread and will get back to me once he had thought about these requirements.
harlequin
09-09-2007, 16:44
This, also, appeals to me.
I'm very much in!!
I'll field test it on my own :) !
Timinwales
09-09-2007, 18:31
darn fine idea well worth a look subject to price and size I'm interested.
cheers Tim
malcolmc
09-09-2007, 19:38
Excellent idea. I may be interested but it depends on price and
a) size and stud spacing being compatable with NATO pattern ponchos
b) available in black or dark natural colour
c) not only availalble in DPM!:eek:
Best of luck with this one:).
littlebiglane
11-09-2007, 18:44
Excellent idea. I may be interested but it depends on price and
a) size and stud spacing being compatable with NATO pattern ponchos
b) available in black or dark natural colour
c) not only availalble in DPM!:eek:
Best of luck with this one:).
Dave at Hilltrek has asked me if someone can send him a NATO pattern poncho to ensure compatibility (he will send it back afterwards). Can anyone help out on this? Dunno about postage except that its all in a good cause to get the group buy moved forward for the benefit of everyone!
weekender
11-09-2007, 19:16
could be interested,ditto all above concerns
Now that would combine the best of two worlds!
dommyracer
11-09-2007, 20:51
At first I thought this sounded like a good idea.
On reflection though, it seems like a solution looking for a problem.
rapidboy
11-09-2007, 22:10
Interested
Dougster
11-09-2007, 22:25
I have a Brit army one you could use - but I REALY don't want a ventile one. Wouldn't it be about as useful as a goretex one?
Happy to loan mine though.
malcolmc
11-09-2007, 22:36
Dougster,
You beat me to the offer of a loan. I've got a couple of NATO ones and would be happy to loan one. As I suggested it and would like a ventile one perhaps I should bear the pain (postage cost).:D I'll stand down if you've got it in hand.
littlebiglane
12-09-2007, 06:57
I have a Brit army one you could use - but I REALY don't want a ventile one. Wouldn't it be about as useful as a goretex one?
Happy to loan mine though.
I know that some people may see the point of one and some not. All are fair comments. For those interested in the idea then the possible benefits might be - quiet, better around a fire, nothing to delaminate, more breathable, natural fibre that could work better with the layers you wear under it in terms of condensation....I am aware over the non-absolute waterproof nature of ventile and the weight penalty. But I love the stuff and am still drawn to it!
littlebiglane
12-09-2007, 06:59
Dougster,
You beat me to the offer of a loan. I've got a couple of NATO ones and would be happy to loan one. As I suggested it and would like a ventile one perhaps I should bear the pain (postage cost).:D I'll stand down if you've got it in hand.
Thanks for that offer. Will email Dave at Hilltrek and see what the score is. Before you do I wanted to get a ball-park figure on the price so we are generally happy to proceed. If we are not then I don't want to waste your time / money posting it. Thanks.
It would also be quieter to sleep under.
I'd been thinking of making one in waxed cotton so I'm interested in ventile as a possibility.
Interesting idea.
I'd be very interested in one as well.
Chris
Intriguing. More information, please!
Another hand up for interested.
Just a quick question/ design input; does the stud placing allow the poncho to close up to form a bivi bag-like tube or is it purely to allow sheets to be connected to form larger tarps?
littlebiglane
17-09-2007, 18:30
Another hand up for interested.
Just a quick question/ design input; does the stud placing allow the poncho to close up to form a bivi bag-like tube or is it purely to allow sheets to be connected to form larger tarps?
I will ask Dave at Hilltrek. Of course not every request for features will be included - otherwise we will end up with a rather expensive poncho. But I will provide a link to this thread so Dave can take on board people's comments so when he spec's it out he can do so properly. I am still waiting for him to get back to me with a price though. :) However the more that express interest hopefully the cheaper it will be!!! :D
littlebiglane
20-09-2007, 18:26
HI Guys - an update for you from Dave at Hilltrek
"You can let the group know that we are extremely interested in supplying.
I am afraid that before we can give you feedback on the price we need to
see the sample NATO garment. The price is determined by the amount of
fabric, ventile is expensive, and the amount of time spent on
manufacturing which is determined by the garment details.
Once we establish a ball park price which is acceptable I propose that we
would initially provide a prototype for testing. Minor design changes
could then be incorporated in the price.
Regards
Dave"
So can someone send him a Nato pattern poncho please - his email address is dave@hilltrek.co.uk. Can you post up if you have sent him one so we know the ball is still rolling (and no one else needs to send one!)
Thanks
Dougster
20-09-2007, 18:44
Malcolm mc - I'll leave it to you if you are taking part. Add to that mine is a basha and not a poncho as I previously thought:o
I only mentioned the viability because of the cost. I have a tatonka cotton tarp which I prefer to all others - particularly in the rain when it has a reassuring sound. But there you have it, that was about £40. If this will replace a jacket and a tarp it's viable, if people want to buy it it's viable. This community does this sort of thing well and long may it continue.
malcolmc
21-09-2007, 17:45
Malcolm mc - I'll leave it to you if you are taking part. Add to that mine is a basha and not a poncho as I previously thought:o ...
I'll email Dave at Hilltrek for the postal address he wants me to use, when I have that I'll send him one of mine.
I own a camouflage sil-nylon poncho. Probably a US-Army one because there is awhole heap of instructions and details printed in one corner. I found it used on top of a trash heap and use it as a undercover.
I can post some pics on sundays and wouldnt mind sending it away.
Hi, a bite late a few pics of a USSR army poncho with the hood in the corner. Hope this might help.
Topknot.
http://img149.imageshack.us/img149/715/poncho3pm8.jpg
http://img142.imageshack.us/img142/3027/poncho5ti6.jpg
http://img135.imageshack.us/img135/7636/poncho10rl0.jpg
Thats mine:
http://i13.photobucket.com/albums/a273/Supercorsa/Bushcraft/239.07.jpg
http://i13.photobucket.com/albums/a273/Supercorsa/Bushcraft/239.07004.jpg
http://i13.photobucket.com/albums/a273/Supercorsa/Bushcraft/239.07005.jpg
id definitely be interested
my first posting!
I would be interested. Ventile is great stuff. I wouldn't want DPM though....
thanks for investigating this.
malcolmc
03-10-2007, 23:42
NATO pattern poncho now winging its way to Hilltrek.
littlebiglane
04-10-2007, 07:27
Lovely. That should speed things up. Thanks!
Silverback
04-10-2007, 15:30
'The crows continually infesting Oetzi's
garden called for drastic measures'
:lmao: :lmao: :lmao:
http://i13.photobucket.com/albums/a273/Supercorsa/Bushcraft/239.07004.jpg
[QUOTE=Silverback;330439]'The crows continually infesting Oetzi's
garden called for drastic measures'
:lmao: :lmao: :lmao: :lmao: :lmao:
No s***
The crows and our dog are battling it out continually.
They dive down over him and "bomb" him with small sticks.
He tries to catch them as soon as they try to land in the garden.
Squidders
04-10-2007, 18:26
http://i13.photobucket.com/albums/a273/Supercorsa/Bushcraft/239.07004.jpg
I once caught a fish THIS big!!!
Hi, a bite late a few pics of a USSR army poncho with the hood in the corner. Hope this might help.
Topknot.
http://img149.imageshack.us/img149/715/poncho3pm8.jpg
http://img142.imageshack.us/img142/3027/poncho5ti6.jpg
http://img135.imageshack.us/img135/7636/poncho10rl0.jpg
Third picture isn't showing for some reason. How does it work? Is this the one that Jude Law was cutting about in in Enemy at the Gates?
Wierd, the third pic is working now! Still not sure how it is used, but t sure looks interesting!
http://i13.photobucket.com/albums/a273/Supercorsa/Bushcraft/239.07004.jpg
If Oetzi had known he was going to get this much grief about his attire he would have smiled for the photo...:D
S0rry mate
JFW
There is no reason to smile when wearing military garments.
Third picture isn't showing for some reason. How does it work? Is this the one that Jude Law was cutting about in in Enemy at the Gates?
Wierd, the third pic is working now! Still not sure how it is used, but t sure looks interesting!
It looks like the one in film.They are on ebay under Russian army (raincoat tent)
littlebiglane
12-10-2007, 05:27
Roight.
Dave at Hilltrek has now reviewed the NATO Poncho. Here is his response:
"Based on this design with a double ventile hood and double ventile shoulders we could offer a price of £110 inclusive of VAT.
I am afraid that it is difficult to get under this price because of the cost of Ventile fabric.
It may be that the stud arrangement and rings at each corner would have to be altered to suit our standard components.( The NATO poncho has studs which can be mated at both sides to enable several ponchos to be connected together. It also has several rings around the outside so that the poncho can be tied to objects)
As I said previously we would make a sample for you to test"
Thoughts everyone. Who is interested at this price?
littlebiglane
12-10-2007, 18:42
BTW This includes P&P
rapidboy
12-10-2007, 18:48
Too expensive IMO, i wouldn't be interested.
Dont sound a bad price,just need one of the established members to do a review of a sample!
thanks for finding out about this, but a bit pricey for my pocket.
thanks for finding out about this (and thanks to Hilltrek for going with it);
I initially thought £110 a bit steep for this poncho, but if you compare it to Hilltreks own 'Braemar Single Ventile® Windshirt' (also £110, which is also cheaper than at least one other rival companies version), I suppose the price is pretty fair as the poncho is going to be a limited run and they are going to be making up new patterns etc. from scratch.
The proposed poncho is also going to be double layered on the hood and shoulders. I can imagine there may be as much work to do to produce a Ventile poncho as a single skin jacket.
The results of the test of the preliminary item will be the decider for me.
Appreciate the effort you have put in buts its a bit too much for me.
£110 doesn't sound [I]too[I] bad...
littlebiglane
13-10-2007, 08:21
Thanks for comments. If you could also vote in the Poll aswell. Then I can see if this is goer. Basha - thanks for your balanced view.
Someone may want to correct me on this, but I had a quick search on Ventile material retail prices; one company sells P80 Ventile at approx. £17 per sq. metre.
I estimate there must be around 4 sq. metres of fabric in a this poncho (including double hood and shoulders); so that would be around £68 just for the material if I were to buy it !!!!
Sounds like a reasonable price to me and I think this would be a useful thing to have, but as others have said I'd like to find out about people's experiences of the sample before deciding. Thanks for all the work on this. I voted in favour anyway.
Chris
Sounds about right for price. I'd be interested in some dimensions and info about fixing points as it's only a real runner if it's replacing a jacket and a tarp for me though.
I do keep wondering about the hood. I don't use hoods much as I wear a wide leather hat.
The only use it has for me is to tie up and seal the centre when I'm sleeping under it.
When thinking about my own design I was going to replace it with a tube like collar and a draw string.
Would that be cheaper to make....:dunno:
Aproximate weight and planned dimensions are the two informations I would like to have.
I am very interested.
littlebiglane
16-10-2007, 07:50
Right - we have at least 10 who are interested. The more the merrier though and maybe we'll pick up more when more details and testing/pictures come through.
I have been thinking long and hard about what I really would/would not like to see on the Poncho. I generally agree with all the comments so far - although I do not know what you do about not having a hood - except making it removable (like some Paramo hoods) - but I would think that this would impact on complexity and make sealing the hole a bit more problematic. But we will see what Dave says.
I am not fussed about attaching Poncho to other tarps really as it will be for personal use but I understand if you wish to have it compatible. I'd just not use it in that way very often so it isn't a 'must-have'.
Eye-lets are a things I have great dislike for. They create areas of great weakness when put under strain and I cannot forget the numerous nights in high winds that these damn things have pulled through the material. I am a big fan of various material loops at corners and edges etc - like the ones you see on Tatonka tarps - but the same applies for the corners - good reinforcement patches are necessary. I am also aware that poppers to make it compatible with NATO tarps might also need some form of reinforcement which could add to weight and complexity.
For me other signficant things is that it is functional enough a) to sleep under and b) cover me and a Bergen when on the move c) but not so big so I fall over it all the time!
Price was always going to an issue with Ventile. It just shows the contrast in Ponchos/Tarps that are made of cheaper stuff. Yes you can get stuff for £10-£30. But I am taking the view that this piece will take the place of a jacket, a shelter and a rucksack cover - made of Ventile - all for £110 inc P&P.
Anyway...I'll drop Dave at Hilltrek a line and see if he can take our most important comments on board, write up a quick spec that we all agree on and then he can make a prototype that we can get a one or more of us to test. Agreed?
I would be very interested in testing a prototype for you. I use ponchos to camp quite often.
http://www.ravenlore.co.uk/assets/images/Norwegian_evening.jpg
Re. the hood. Providing the collar is taller than half the distance across the neck hole and has a drawstring it should seal well enough.
I was planning one that could fold or roll down to be out of the way while wearing it. I suppose a roll down hood would be just as good. I'm not sure it needs to be double thickness.
I don't think nato compatibility is an issue. But if tabs are used in place of eyelets they need to be something that will not snag on foliage as you move. The Tatonka type are good.
For my use, I doubt I would need it to be compatible with a Nato poncho..I agree that loops in reinforced corners would be preferable to eyelets.
I don't think I'd need a removable hood; If I needed to put a poncho on it would be pretty foul weather and I think the hood would be up. However apart from possible sealing problems in tarp mode, a removable hood may not be a disadvantage.
If the studs along the side were not NATO compatible, I assume it would still be able to be used it as a bivvi bag?
It may be worth considering the overall size; it may not cost any more to make it a few inches bigger one way or another (depending on the width of material they are using), but that extra size may prove useful in use, particularly in tarp mode.
Nato compatibility is not neccessary
Eyelets or Loops, whatever the majority prefers
A simple and large enough hood is a necessity
I would like to see the rear about 50-80cm longer, to accomodate a larger pack without exposing the legs too much (it could be folded up and secured with press-studs)
I am definitly in (and would modify it to my individual needs anyway)
littlebiglane
25-10-2007, 07:18
Hi all,
I have been pressing Dave at Hilltrek to come up with a spec as I am sure that we all want to move on this and get something we can look at and test - hopefully before Christmas!!! :)
He has just got back to me as said this:
"Mark,
Can you please give us a week approx. We are pretty busy at the moment and
it is better for us to take time to get the details right before we go to press."
I hope that this is okay by everyone. I'll chase him in 7 days!!!
M
Silverdog
25-10-2007, 10:20
Way to expensive
Eddie
Silverdog
25-10-2007, 10:25
Has any one seen a nice felt poncho ??????
Eddie
littlebiglane
25-10-2007, 21:01
Someone may want to correct me on this, but I had a quick search on Ventile material retail prices; one company sells P80 Ventile at approx. £17 per sq. metre.
I estimate there must be around 4 sq. metres of fabric in a this poncho (including double hood and shoulders); so that would be around £68 just for the material if I were to buy it !!!!
I don't know why this is irking me a bit but alot of people are saying that £110 is too expensive. Does this mean that a) you feel that you cannot afford this or b) that you feel that this is too expensive for what it is?
My problem is that at £110 for a premium material product (that will last years) that will not delaminated, will not get get burn holes near a fire, is a 'silent' natural material, that is highly water-resistant - that will do as a tarp, jacket and will also cover your rucksack when on the move. Compare this price to ventile shirts or (eek) ventile jackets....then I think that it is excellent value for money. Especially considering it is a custom production run, with most of the cost in the materials let alone the labour costs
I agree that it is expensive but I don't necessarily agree that it is not great value for money - if it does what we all hope it will.
...had to offload that. Seeing that most people have voted that it is too expensive. For those who love ventile and use ponchos alot (for rain cover and sleeping under) may well aprreciate its worth. Maybe I am getting the wrong end of the stick. £110 is right at the top end of what I can afford. But I suspect it may be worth it in the long run???
:cussing:
littlebiglane
25-10-2007, 21:01
p.s. Basha - I am agreeing with you not having a go at you BTW !!
I don't know why this is irking me a bit but alot of people are saying that £110 is too expensive. Does this mean that a) you feel that you cannot afford this or b) that you feel that this is too expensive for what it is?
My problem is that at £110 for a premium material product (that will last years) that will not delaminated, will not get get burn holes near a fire, is a 'silent' natural material, that is highly water-resistant - that will do as a tarp, jacket and will also cover your rucksack when on the move. Compare this price to ventile shirts or (eek) ventile jackets....then I think that it is excellent value for money. Especially considering it is a custom production run, with most of the cost in the materials let alone the labour costs
I agree that it is expensive but I don't necessarily agree that it is not great value for money - if it does what we all hope it will.
...had to offload that. Seeing that most people have voted that it is too expensive. For those who love ventile and use ponchos alot (for rain cover and sleeping under) may well aprreciate its worth. Maybe I am getting the wrong end of the stick. £110 is right at the top end of what I can afford. But I suspect it may be worth it in the long run???
:cussing:My sentiments exactly!
p.s. Basha - I am agreeing with you not having a go at you BTW !!
Don't worry littlebiglane, I read it as you intended.
This potential group buy must be a bit frustrating for you. If the prototype turns out to be good after a review, then no doubt a few people will change their minds and new interest will follow. Best of luck.
John Fenna
25-10-2007, 22:58
Sounds value for money to me!
Sadly I do not have that kind of money to spare at the moment.....
I agree that it is expensive but I don't necessarily agree that it is not great value for money - if it does what we all hope it will.
...had to offload that. Seeing that most people have voted that it is too expensive. For those who love ventile and use ponchos alot (for rain cover and sleeping under) may well aprreciate its worth. Maybe I am getting the wrong end of the stick. £110 is right at the top end of what I can afford. But I suspect it may be worth it in the long run???
:cussing:
SIC!!!
Have alook at what you get for GBP 100,- these days.
At best some mass market product from the far east.
Love ventile, DIY my ventile smock cost just under half that using seconds ventile (still don't know what the fault was!). this will use a fair bit more material and I guess is using first quality so given the other costs involved in commercial production not an unreasonable price. But I voted too expensive as haven't got £110 spare.
I am still trying to get my head around this one....If I wear my poncho, it is because the weather is horrible and the poncho keeps me dry (ish). I am thinking if I wear a ventile poncho, when it gets soaked, (because of the horrible weather) it will weigh a ton and I will get damp under it...Also, if used as a tarp and it gets wet, you have then got to put on this heavy wet poncho when you get going again. I do however think it would be a good thing to wear around the fire, if it is raining...I don't go for the quietness of ventile either, my jacket is almost as noisey as my goretex with the swish of arm movement while walking...
I don't want to put people off buying one, I just don't see how it would benefit me...
Does sound like a good price though, its a lot of material....
thanks for finding out about this, but a bit pricey for my pocket.
just wanted to clarify my post, this sounds like a great piece of kit that i would love to own, but i just don't have that much spare cash at the moment, i believe in buying good quality kit that is made to last, but being on a certain budget have to pick and chooose when and what kit i buy, hope that makes sence, don't feel people are being ungratefull, i admire anyone undertaking the group buys and i have benifited a lot from them in the past.
littlebiglane
05-11-2007, 20:23
Right - I now have initial spec for the poncho. My first comment is what the weight guesstimate would be. Second would be - if it is not compatible with Nato poncho then studs are pointless. If I can have three volunteers for testing (once spec has been agreed - I suggest Wayland, Oetzi and one other).
Here is the email from Dave at Hilltrek.
"Here are the details of the Ventile poncho
Style: basis of the poncho is the NATO sample provided but adapted for
ventile fabric and to use standard Hilltrek components e.g. studs
Fabric: Single Ventile except where stated
Colour: olive green
Length: 210cm
Width: 150cm
Hood: attached double ventile
Shoulders: double ventile for 50cm
Studs(not compatible with studs on Nato garment) at intervals of 8.5"
Loops at 4 corners and centre ( 6off )
I hope that this is sufficiently clear.
We are very busy at the moment but we could target to have a sample for you
at the end of November.
Please let us know the feedback
Best Regards
Dave"
Over to you guys. Comments please...:)
I'm in agreement about the studs. Ties would work just as well and be easier to fix down the line.
I do wonder about the length being long enough to go over a pack. This is one area that many ponchos fall down on. You can't put a pack over a poncho easily so it has to go underneath which often leaves the back of your legs under covered.
Yes, I would prefer ties, too.
About the lenght at the back, this is a perennial problem with standard ponchos and one of my biggest concern with them.
My suggestion would be to have the rear about 20-30" longer. This "flap" could double up inside and be fixed, for example, with three simple ties and loops.
If not in use, it wouldnt disturb the wearer. One can sit on this then doubled portion at camp and only if needed it would be let down and the side ties could be re-knotted accordingly. since one usually knows beforehand if the biggerpack will be used on the tour, this can be done at home while preparing.
Yes, it would make the poncho more expensive by using up more Ventile, but be worth it.
I will do this modification anyway with probably some coated Nylon or G-1000, if i cant get hold of a piece of Ventile.
What do you think?
The loops sound like a good idea.
The studs fitted to a NATO poncho enable it to be used as a bivvi bag. I think some means of securing/making it into this would be useful; studs/poppers seem the obvious choice, but even ties would do. As I mentioned before, NATO poncho compatability is not necessary for me.
My NATO poncho measures 1650mm wide, maybe the 1500mm width Dave is quoting maybe the maximum/optimum he can produce from the available ventile material. However it's potential for a bivvi bag may become a bit restricted.
My NATO poncho measures approx. 2020mm along the sides, increasing to 2200mm maximum along the centre-line. Dave quotes 2100mm length; Is this is cut square (i.e. 2100mm at sides and centre-line)?
I'm glad the project is still alive. Thanks for perservering with it.
The good thing about studs is, they are easily fitted by the user without much tools afterwards.
littlebiglane
06-11-2007, 18:26
So in summary:
Size (covering a bergen adequately) may be an issue and needs to be looked at - it needs to cover legs and rucksack - other options have been suggested in 'posts'
Studs now would be an aftermarket option so loops would be preferred
Drawcord on hood would be nice
A weight guesstimate would also be useful
Any stitchwork to be strong enought to bear the weight of wet cloth, under tension, in high wind.
If we can collect together our final comments on the spec - then Dave can give us a prototype spec. If I could have one final volunteer to test the product - someone who is experienced in using ponchos / tarps and also ventile and can constructively comment / post responses and pictures. Then if we have three volunteers I think a week testing each and posting it onto the next tester then finally back to Dave will be the next step.
Okay so far?
I don't recall any time that a potential piece of kit has left me divided ( especially for so long ) as to if I thought it was a good or bad idea.
Studs now would be an aftermarket option so loops would be preferred
If studs are an easy thing to add I think it it's definitely an advantage to leave them as an aftermarket modifiation as people can uses spacings and fixings to mate with their pre-existing kit, which is not always NATO compatable.
A weight guesstimate would also be useful
If one of the testers can soak it, wring it out ( as they would in the field after a heavy nights rain ) and then weigh it, that might be a useful thing to know alongside the dry weight. As might be a morning dew dampness weight.
I live near Aboyne and I know Dave at Hilltrek, if I can help in anyway with this project please contact me.
I have a Hilltrek ventile jacket and they are very good and I'm sure you will find the quality is top-notch.
littlebiglane
09-11-2007, 17:11
FYI Dave's last email:
Thanks for this.
Interesting comments.
Just for clarification the studs are used for fastening both sides of the
poncho together. A stud consists of a male on on side on the poncho and
female on the other side. These are Hilltrek standard studs as can be seen
on our Glencoe Double ventile jacket.
http://www.hillgear.com/acatalog/Glencoe_Double_Ventile_Jacket. html
The loops are intended to tie the poncho to the ground or to a tree etc.
They replace the rings used by the NATO poncho.
Look forward to the response
Dave
I am now going to ask for a final prototype spec that we can 'sign off' so he can get into production.
littlebiglane
09-11-2007, 17:13
I live near Aboyne and I know Dave at Hilltrek, if I can help in anyway with this project please contact me.
I have a Hilltrek ventile jacket and they are very good and I'm sure you will find the quality is top-notch.
This could be very useful. Thanks. Do you have any comments on the Ventile Ponch Spec - I am keen to get it prototyped as soon as possible as we have been hanging around a while.
Thanks - and welcome.
Reading this with interest. I haven't got £100+ to spare at the moment, so I'm not in the running to buy one, but just thought I'd say that the price seems pretty good for the quantity of material used alone - ventile's not cheap.
Also I think the 1500mm width comes about from the cloth coming on a 1.5m wide bolt - any wider would add a seam and more material - increasing the price dramatically I expect. I wouldn't have thought adding length at the back would be too tricky or expensive.
Littlebiglane
I must admit at first I thought that a ventile poncho would be a waste of time, but I must admit that if it can replace a basha and jacket it would be worth the quoted price.
I think eyelets are a big NONO.
I wouldn't bother with hood, I don't like them, but if you are going to have them how about a wire peak.
I may well purchase one of these myself.
I am willing to go into hilltrek and talk to dave and also test the pocho for you, I can go in this weekeed.
Matt Weir
15-11-2007, 12:41
I'm not in the market for one myself as I don't have the money but having read through this thread this is looking like good value for the money.
Looking forward to a review :)
I think it's a good price, but I'm going to have to say no for now as I've just been hit with a another sizeable repair bill on my motorbike for the third time this year. :(
littlebiglane
19-11-2007, 08:05
I live near Aboyne and I know Dave at Hilltrek, if I can help in anyway with this project please contact me.
I have a Hilltrek ventile jacket and they are very good and I'm sure you will find the quality is top-notch.
I have just got this email from Dave at Hilltrek (see below). But the main question now is the basic dimensions of the prototype. Is it big enough (but not too big) - it is based on NATO dimensions - but having read the threads there are question marks over it not being big enough to cover a rucksack and legs. Maybe we can have informed suggestions as to what the ideal dimensions should be. Then we can immediately move to prototype production.
Anyway - here is Dave's email:
"I apolgise for the time taken to come this far and to answer your question -
yes we are still interested.
I think with Lawrence Clark of Bushcraft Ventures (BushVen) near by we have the ideal
guy to work with us to ensure that it is 'bushcraft' friendly.
I don't think that we are too far away if we focus on a base spec.
Lawrence came in on Saturady to discuss and Bill (Hilltrek Manager) and I
had a discussion today about it.
I make the following points:
1 The measurement which we listed in the spec are taken directly from the
NATO poncho however if you want a larger size of course we can do this but
you need to decide the dimensions. We can make whatever size you want!
2 Studs are very easy for us to implement in fact more easy than loops.
Lawerence suggests that we go with the six loop proposal as outlined in the
spec. Perhaps we can insert a stud to be used to create a sleeve.
3 We do not think that the 'fold up' extension is practical to implement.
4 Drawcord on hood is included.
Otherwise we can go ahead and make a proptotype.
Regards
Dave"
I am 1.72m, this Poncho has a length of 2.15m, the pack shown is a Macpac Kestrel, claimed capacity 35l, mostly empty.
As you can see in the pics, to compensate for a small pack like this, even if it where filled, an additional 50cm of lenght at the back would be more than sufficient.
With a 40+ pack, filled up but not extended above the shoulders, one should get a decent cover of the legs with an extension of maybe 70cm.
I will do the same pics with a bigger pack tomorrow and post them.
http://i13.photobucket.com/albums/a273/Supercorsa/Work%20in%20progress/201107001_cr.jpg
http://i13.photobucket.com/albums/a273/Supercorsa/Work%20in%20progress/201107002.jpg
http://i13.photobucket.com/albums/a273/Supercorsa/Work%20in%20progress/201107003.jpg
littlebiglane
20-11-2007, 13:55
I am 1.72m, this Poncho has a length of 2.15m, the pack shown is a Macpac Kestrel, claimed capacity 35l, mostly empty.
As you can see in the pics, to compensate for a small pack like this, even if it where filled, an additional 50cm of lenght at the back would be more than sufficient.
With a 40+ pack, filled up but not extended above the shoulders, one should get a decent cover of the legs with an extension of maybe 70cm.
I will do the same pics with a bigger pack tomorrow and post them.
http://i13.photobucket.com/albums/a273/Supercorsa/Work%20in%20progress/201107001_cr.jpg
http://i13.photobucket.com/albums/a273/Supercorsa/Work%20in%20progress/201107002.jpg
http://i13.photobucket.com/albums/a273/Supercorsa/Work%20in%20progress/201107003.jpg
Thanks for that - looking forward to seeing how it fits. I have a 100ltre Vulcan - so quite interested how a large pack fits under it. Cheers.
p.s. your poncho looks similar in dimensions to the Snugpak one.
I dont think that we can make this kind of poncho extendable enough at the back to cover big packs. We would end with completely doubled rear and thats too expensive, heavy and cumbersome.
For anything larger than, say, 50 Liters, the Nylon ones with a zippered extendable compartment are the ticket. Like these:
http://intranet.tatonka.com/infosys/infocgi/artinfoe.dll?2797&0
I came to this concusion after making these pictures:
http://i13.photobucket.com/albums/a273/Supercorsa/Work%20in%20progress/211107001.jpg
http://i13.photobucket.com/albums/a273/Supercorsa/Work%20in%20progress/211107002.jpg
The poncho is the standard US one and I choose it because most of you are familiar with the design and dimensions. The pack is a medium-sized Bach, maybe filled with 45 Liters as shown.
In the first pic you see the poncho, for comparison, with the press studs closed all the way down.
In the second I offset the press studs. The lowest on the rear connects to the third from the bottom on front. As you can see, it fits nicely over the pack, completely exposing the legs.
Widht is also reduced by adding depht to the bearer with the pack, but its still comfortable to wear. I mention this, because the Ventile poncho would be narrower (155cm compared to 165cm?) and the fabric is not as smooth as the nylon shown. Therefore it wouldnt "slide" as good as Nylon over clothing and pack.
Now imagine a 80+Liter pack being worn. Being much higher and deeper it would "use" up much more of the back lenght of the Poncho. An extension of more than 1m would be necessary. Far too much in every aspect to carry doubled up at the rear. With a pack this big, I would wear a ventile Poncho under the pack, like a jacket, or get one with a Nylon one with an extendable compartment. Our design has its limits here.
Now, if we were to make a short extension of ca 60cm, a pack like the Bach could be worn under the Poncho AND the protection would be still good down to the shins AND we wouldnt add too much weight- and pricewise.
This extendable flap would be folded inside when not in use. Fastening is a bit of a problem. Press studs would be easy and cheap to fit, but then every time you sit down they may have to be rearranged as not to pinch the bottom. Thats my guess.
Therefore, I would go with ties, at least for the one or two in the middle. On the long sides, press studs wouldnt do any harm. But that can be decided with the genral question of using them or not at all.
If there were no extension at all, this would leave only very small packs to carry under the Poncho.
But then the poncho could always be worn as a long jacket. Which I vastly prefer to any GTX who make me feel like a boil-in-the-bag and leave my legs uncovered, too.
Food for thought, I hope!
littlebiglane
21-11-2007, 18:59
okay - I can get this resolved I think.
a) Will get BushVen on the case as he is nearest
b) I used my Snugpak Poncho with an 80litre and it was fine - so I'll get dimensions of that.
Oetzi - thanks for this. I think it is an issue that needs cracking.
littlebiglane
24-11-2007, 07:43
Right....decided that its best to crack on and see what Hilltrek come up with - I have asked them to produce the prototype design. It can then be tested by our three happy campers.....:D
Will keep you posted as I get news.
just spotted this, does it really have to cover the backpac? most pacs have covers, i know karrior more sell them separate to cover most sizes, and you can buy them for bergens to. Just a thought.
I find it's more comfortable to wear a poncho over a pack than bunching it up under the bergen straps.
Just my preference.
I think it will be possible to wear this specific Poncho made from highly breathable material over or under any pack . Either having the comfort of a loose fitting garment or being protected against the elements right down below the knees.
irishlostboy
04-12-2007, 04:06
scanker just pointed out this thread to me. i dont know the ventile material, but i am in the market for a good poncho. will it be available in DPM?
I think most of us prefer non military looking stuff so olive would be the best choice IMO.
Ventile is a highly breathable, water resistant fabric made of top quality cotton.
Not as waterproof as Gortex etc. but much more comfortable.
Shambling Shaman
04-12-2007, 06:25
Could be interested if it's big enough to sleep under.
Agreed but cost is the thing.
irishlostboy
04-12-2007, 06:45
olive sounds a good choice.
i just had some good memories of my dodgy nylon dpm poncho. it was crap quality, but very fun. can you count me as (nearly) in for one, with a confirmation on seeing the prototypes?
littlebiglane
04-12-2007, 18:17
Littlebiglane
I must admit at first I thought that a ventile poncho would be a waste of time, but I must admit that if it can replace a basha and jacket it would be worth the quoted price.
I think eyelets are a big NONO.
I wouldn't bother with hood, I don't like them, but if you are going to have them how about a wire peak.
I may well purchase one of these myself.
I am willing to go into hilltrek and talk to dave and also test the pocho for you, I can go in this weekeed.
Thanks for this. Do pop in and see how things have started. I am sure we are all keen to see progress.
How Can We Use It As A Basha Without Eyelets?
littlebiglane
06-12-2007, 18:37
How Can We Use It As A Basha Without Eyelets?
Loops or like the setup with Tatonka tarps
born2roam
16-12-2007, 10:23
Quit a late reply, but finally made some time to read the entire subject and some stuff on Hilltrek's website.
Depending on size I am interested, although the truth is I can NOT afford it now, I do not think it is too expensive though.
If using a poncho now it is a cheap military one, which I find a bit too short using as a tarp.
The other day I got a small hole in my Pinewood Anorak due to the fire. Heck it is an object to be used so not too many tears shed there... would be better without so....
Carrying stuff that I has multiple uses is a BIG plus...but as said before... it rains and I need my poncho to wear (anorak), keep my sleeping place dry (tarp)...mmmm no final verdict from me.
The Braemar Single layer ventile from Hilltrek looks good, same price but single purpose...
Hopefully somebody is testing a prototype now and help me/us with info to make a decision ;-)
Grtz Johan
Shambling Shaman
01-01-2008, 16:44
Have not read all the posts.
Are we having some ridge line loops on it?
littlebiglane
01-01-2008, 16:53
Have not read all the posts.
Are we have in some ridge line loops on it?
Its been a while - Christmas and Nyear got in the way. I'll get onto Hilltrek and see if we can get the ball rolling on this again - with added gusto!!!!
Thanks
littlebiglane
18-01-2008, 17:49
Dave at Hilltrek has completed the prototype and has given it to Lawrence of Bushcraft Ventures to do preliminary testing of it in the Cairngorms this Saturday. I am sure the weather will be both cold, wet and unpleasant. Ideal!
I hope that Lawrence can give it a good testing, maybe take some photos, give some constructive feedback back to Hilltrek and get some info/piccies posted up so we can see any issues or it being used.
Thanks for listening.
Shambling Shaman
18-01-2008, 19:49
testing of it in the Cairngorms this Saturday.
I live 35 min from the Cairngorms But of to Achininver!!!:banghead:
littlebiglane
19-01-2008, 11:45
I live 35 min from the Cairngorms But of to Achininver!!!:banghead:
Well if you go out today and spot someone running around in the mountains that looks a) like a yeti or b) wearing a tent then can you take some photos of him (Lawrence) so we can post them up to see what the poncho looks like? :D
This could be interesting.
Hello all Poncho fan’s
I’ve tested the poncho over several days in the Cairngorms.
Rather than gassing on about what I did, I shall get straight to the point and just list my findings in no particular order.
1.The head entrance to the hood and the hood itself could be a little larger. At 22cm or 8 5/8”(approx) diameter, for both, this makes a tight fit, especially if wearing a woollen hat, which I find I have to remove to get my head through (59cm or 23” my head circumference). I don’t think my head is that big !
Suggest that the head entrance and the hood diameter is increased to 91/2” or 24cm minimum
2.Unfortunately there are no tapes at the centre rear and front, so the basha can not be erected in the normal square fashion (centre line and 4 guys) but can be erected in a diamond shape (centre line and 2 guys, using all 4 corners).
Suggest that 4 extra tapes are attached, 1 each centre rear and front and 1 each centre left and right. This would increase the use-ability as a basha / shelter.
3.The tapes are 25 mm wide in a black material and have reinforced triangular patches with double stitching where the tapes are directly attached.
I feel the tapes are too wide and should be 10 -15mm wide, this would help to accommodate pegging out the poncho.
4.The size of the poncho is 80” or 203cm long x 57” or 145cm wide. I feel this is just big enough when using the poncho as a basha / shelter.
When wearing the poncho, without a rucsac, the front comes down approx 5” – 6” or 13cm – 15cm below my knee, but is approx 6” – 8” or 15cm – 20cm shorter at the back. When wearing with a rucsac (sabre 60) the poncho does cover the rucsac but could be longer. I am 5’ 8” or 173cm tall with a medium build, if you are taller the back may be to short and if you are short the front may be to long.
I would suggest that the head entrance and the hood is moved forward by 4”- 6” or the length of the back is increased by 4” – 6”. Increasing the overall length would also increase the living area when used as a basha / shelter, but may also increase the price due to more material used.
It may be that the hood has been put on the wrong way around, therefore making the front longer than the back ? I shall check this against the template poncho.
5.There is one press-stud on each side with reinforced patches. These are in order to make an arm on each side and this seems to work well, but the sides do flap around in the wind unless your wear a belt over the top.
I suggest that the two more sets of press-studs are attached on each side, this would help to keep the sides from flapping around.
6.The wire peak works wells and is nicely incorporated into the hood.
I would suggest that the sides of the peak come down the sides more to just above the eyebrow area, this would give better protect from wind and rain, especially for those wearing glasses.
That’s basically all the areas of concern that I have found. I haven’t been able to test the poncho in a real down-pour as we haven’t had much rain here. I tried the poncho in my shower at home and, as expected with ventile, it works well and I feel it would give good protect from heavy rainfall.
I have also tested the hood (tied-up) for leakage when used as a basha, this was also carried-out in my shower. I have found no problems here either, although I would prefer to test it outside in a real down-pour.
The rest of the poncho is standard with single stitched folded edges and a double ventile covering over the shoulder’s where the hood fabric extends. The pack size is slightly larger than the Aussie basha and about the same as the Fox basha and it’s a little heavier than either of these.
I feel that with the adjustments above this will be a very good product and is worth the extra wait to get these minor problems ironed-out. If the poncho is made slightly longer, then it could replace the need for a separate basha and a ventile jacket.
I shall post some photos as soon as I get my camera out of storage (long story).
If you have any questions, or if I’ve missed any details then please contact me. I shall also carry-out more testing, especially if we get some heavy rain.
I have sent a copy of this to Hilltrek and I shall see if I can visit them before next week, in order to discuss my findings. I shall not go ahead with any alterations until I get your opinions and views on my report.
All the best
Lawrence Clark
info@bushcraftventures.co.uk
www.bushcraftventures.co.uk
littlebiglane
30-01-2008, 18:35
Lawrence,
May I firstly thank you on a great report on the prototype. I cannot but agree with all your sensible comments. They are indeed minor points to iron out - but the devil is in the detail and it separates an average product with a great one. As you have said - your feeling that this is a great product if we can get these issues sorted out.
Well done and thanks. I would recommend that Hilltrek look into these modifications. I would like to think that you could give it the once over once again then when you are totally happy with it get it QA'd by our other two volunteer testers.
Yes...my head is 24'5 inches! No brain, mostly skull. It would be good to get it through the hole in the poncho too!
Look forward to some photos - it makes it all seem more real.
If you are speaking to Dave at Hilltrek can you ask him how long the modifications will take?
Thanks
:You_Rock_
Sounds like you've raised some good design points there.
Out of interest how much did the material stiffen up after being wetted down?
Do you think this might be an issue?
My brother has a cotton treated poncho used bu USMC troops during WWII. It has a detachable hood, that is very difficult to come by, but I am sure it has a split in the bottom, where your throat would be, to make it easier to get it on and off. Maybe something similar could be modified into the prototype just to see if it is worth doing. A simple press stud could close the split at the top.
Wayland & all
When wet the poncho is stiff, just like any ventile garment, but is not uncomfortable or awkward.
The idea of having a 'slit' to help get your head in and out is a good one, but can causee another problem . When using the poncho as a basha you need to make this area waterproof and leak proof, this is possible in a number of ways but does increases the risk of leakage.
I shall talk to Hilltrek to see how long the changes will take.
All the best
Lawrence Clark
its great to see, how this project does realize!!
On the subject of testing, I am off for a longer period of Rehab in february, so unfortunately I can not take part in further testing.
Still, I am on the list for purchasing one.
littlebiglane
01-02-2008, 07:18
its great to see, how this project does realize!!
On the subject of testing, I am off for a longer period of Rehab in february, so unfortunately I can not take part in further testing.
Still, I am on the list for purchasing one.
I hope that your rehab goes well. Good luck.
We will find another tester. But thanks for all your input so far :)
Once Lawrence :You_Rock_ has worked with Hilltrek to get as many of these modifications sorted - and he is happy with it then we can get the Mark 1 version across to Wayland. I am hoping that it will receive a thumbs up......
I've seen a poncho somewhere on the net, that has a one side of a zip sewn in close to the inside back egde.
The idea being you can zip in an extra panel on the end so when carrying a large pack you'll still get enough cover.
littlebiglane
04-02-2008, 18:20
Thanks to Lawrence we have some initial prototype pictures back.
http://i271.photobucket.com/albums/jj130/littlebiglane/poncho12.jpg
http://i271.photobucket.com/albums/jj130/littlebiglane/poncho11.jpg
http://i271.photobucket.com/albums/jj130/littlebiglane/poncho10.jpg
http://i271.photobucket.com/albums/jj130/littlebiglane/poncho9.jpg
http://i271.photobucket.com/albums/jj130/littlebiglane/poncho6.jpg
http://i271.photobucket.com/albums/jj130/littlebiglane/poncho5.jpg
http://i271.photobucket.com/albums/jj130/littlebiglane/poncho4.jpg
http://i271.photobucket.com/albums/jj130/littlebiglane/poncho1.jpg
Looks good so far, but way too short.
Up front it should reach below the knees to give a t least 5" of overlap with long gaitors. In the rear even with a small bag the poncho wouldnt reach over the a**e.
littlebiglane
04-02-2008, 18:24
agreed. too short at back by quite a bit....
http://i271.photobucket.com/albums/jj130/littlebiglane/poncho9.jpg
Ahh yes, the final resting place of the bushcrafter. Laid out on a pyre under his trusty tarp for the last time, sent off to Valhalla with all of his possessions (hang on, i think I've got me burials mixed up here!) ready to traipse about in the afterlife looking for two decent trees to hang his tarp off of!
:D
Seriously though, I like the corner tapes. Much better than eyes/grommets.
Shambling Shaman
04-02-2008, 18:38
Its Looking good, just the length to sort out - But I'm trying to save some pennys ready for the big day......
littlebiglane
04-02-2008, 19:04
Ahh yes, the final resting place of the bushcrafter. Laid out on a pyre under his trusty tarp for the last time, sent off to Valhalla with all of his possessions (hang on, i think I've got me burials mixed up here!) ready to traipse about in the afterlife looking for two decent trees to hang his tarp off of!
:D
Seriously though, I like the corner tapes. Much better than eyes/grommets.
My eyesight is failing me but I think the cord is not fixed to tapes but tied around the material. I think Lawrence has picked up on this already though.
My eyesight is failing me but I think the cord is not fixed to tapes but tied around the material. I think Lawrence has picked up on this already though.
The ones in the corner, meant. It may look a bit more streamlined if the tapes draw level with the corner of the fabric, from underneath. You don't have this huge loop dangling out when you wear it then. The same could be done with ridge loops.
littlebiglane
04-02-2008, 20:08
The ones in the corner, meant. It may look a bit more streamlined if the tapes draw level with the corner of the fabric, from underneath. You don't have this huge loop dangling out when you wear it then. The same could be done with ridge loops.
Good point!
I agree, it needs to be a bit longer in the front and quite a bit longer at the back.
That would also improve the length for bivvying too.
I don't get why Ventile is so expensive. All it is is a cotton weave. Yard for yard it has to be the most expensive material in the world (after spider silk, maybe).
littlebiglane
05-02-2008, 06:26
I don't get why Ventile is so expensive. All it is is a cotton weave. Yard for yard it has to be the most expensive material in the world (after spider silk, maybe).
Yes it is expensive but it has some pretty special qualities. I was instantly converted to it the very first time I used it in anger. There was no contest. And garments made from it are really not much expensive than some of the mid-high end fancy techno jackets/coats are made from multi-layered stretchy, bendy, melty, sweaty, breaky, smelly petro-laminates.
I know what you mean though....it is mind-bogglingly expensive...
The poncho has no centre tapes, this is a point that I highlighted in my report. I like the idea of having the tapes underneath, as suggested by wayland.
How much extra material would you like and where ? maybe 6" rear and 4" front ? The person in the foto is 5' 9" tall.
Can you give me your views ?
I shall be passing some more fotos to littlebiglane, these may help.
I can pop into Hilltrek today (tuesday) or tommorrow to talk to them about modifications or wait until the weekend, this will give you some time to have a good old think.
Ventile is made of the best quality Egyptian cotton, approx only 9% is suitable, most of this is used for the miltary and emergency services. Also the material has a tighter weave than your average cotton material, this means more thread is required. All of this keeps the price high.
Good stuff there, would agree that it may be a bit short both for a tarp and a poncho. Any chance you could get a photo of it pitched on the diagonal?
Cheers
JFW
littlebiglane
05-02-2008, 14:33
Oooooh I am getting seriously excited about this project now :D
To think....a BCUK members designed Ventile Poncho. A real show of what we can do putting our heads together, having several hands-on members (BushVen) and a have-a-try manufacturer.
To everyone who has inputed into the design so far....:You_Rock_
I'm liking these ideas that get made. the Nimblewill that Scoops had designed that was later made by Woodland Edge, the underblankets made by Snugpak and emboidered with the BcUK logo that was all designed by Ian, and now this!
A small patch so that a badge could be placed on without sewing through the tarp would be good. Then there would be a place for folk to sew their BcUK badges on! This wouldn't need to be Ventile though.
dommyracer
05-02-2008, 15:23
I don't get why Ventile is so expensive. All it is is a cotton weave. Yard for yard it has to be the most expensive material in the world (after spider silk, maybe).
The weave is very tight, therefore there's a lot more yarn in Ventile.
It's also made from the best quailty cotton, not just any cheap stuff.
Also, it's a trademarked brand, there's only 2 companies that produce it - Talbot weaving int he UK and Stoz of Switzerland (under the brand name 'etaproof') . So there's something of a monopoly.
Shambling Shaman
11-02-2008, 17:51
Oooooh I am getting seriously excited about this project now :D
:D AGREED as said before I'm desperately saving.........
littlebiglane
12-02-2008, 06:13
:D AGREED as said before I'm desperately saving.........
I will see what the score is from BushVen and Hilltrek as to where we are at with the modifications proposed and the timeline for this. Ideally I would like to get the next iteration (after BushVen is happy with it) out to Wayland to test. Then, if he is happy with it and posted his report on it, we can start taking orders and see what the production time is for for it.
LBL
Shambling Shaman
12-02-2008, 06:28
I will see what the score is from BushVen and Hilltrek as to where we are at with the modifications proposed and the timeline for this. Ideally I would like to get the next iteration (after BushVen is happy with it) out to Wayland to test. Then, if he is happy with it and posted his report on it, we can start taking orders and see what the production time is for for it.
LBL
Don't rush it will take me months to save up :(
Rather bizarrely whilst soaking in the bath earlier... I wondered if the ventile & sewn loops would be strong enough to improvise a stretcher with 2 poles.
Quote:
Originally Posted by littlebiglane View Post
Oooooh I am getting seriously excited about this project now
AGREED as said before I'm desperately saving.........
__________________
Or you do like me and start selling unused stuff at evilbay!
I was so surprised about what I could get rid:
Books
Parts of old photographic equipment
tons of bicycle parts of all ages
Even a 12Kg Linhof tripod, thrown away by someone unknown and carried home on the rack of a bike by me, brought € 155,-
littlebiglane
27-02-2008, 13:30
Quote:
Originally Posted by littlebiglane View Post
Oooooh I am getting seriously excited about this project now
AGREED as said before I'm desperately saving.........
__________________
Or you do like me and start selling unused stuff at evilbay!
I was so surprised about what I could get rid:
Books
Parts of old photographic equipment
tons of bicycle parts of all ages
Even a 12Kg Linhof tripod, thrown away by someone unknown and carried home on the rack of a bike by me, brought € 155,-
Glad to hear from you again. Everything alright? You must be if you are selling stuff on Evilbag for the day (hopefully sometime soon!) that we can purchase said Poncho!
Still Waters
27-02-2008, 14:35
How about a polycotton one to bring the price down on the fabric?
A bit of waterproofing on polycotton and its very dry in a large down pour.
Maybe if polycotton mix fabric was used but the price kept the same then the differance in cost could be used to add all those detailed little extras?
The prototype looks on the small side for my liking
loops instead of eyelets gets my vote
the wire hood gets my vote also
I would preffer it to have ridge line loops
Does it have the ability to be fastend together to make a bivvy bag?
It may be prohibitive in cost to make it mate with a issue poncho but will 2 of these ponchos connect together?
What material is used in the stitching thread?
I am intersted and i fully understand the price of ventile but for me to spend £110 in one go i would need somthing that covers a lot of options and will last an age.
I suppose beggers cant be choosers.
Maybe two versions one in polycotton mix and one in ventile?
littlebiglane
27-02-2008, 18:14
But it will last an age. Its made of ventile. Its also made by Hilltrek who specialise in making ventile clothes.
It will also act as a raincoat, a rucksack cover and also something to sleep under and won't melt if you go near a flame.
Try and do that with a standard laminate jacket for £110.:rolleyes:
But its really a case of this garment really splitting the vote - 1/3 to 2/3rds. A bit like marmite I suppose!
Different strokes for different folks...
(and yes it does need to be bigger..and it will be... BushVen has popped it back into Hilltrek to get the modifications done. He is due to speak to them shortly and see how it is progressing )
Unless you all are set on Hilltrack, I know a friend who sews this kind of stuff (although I think he does mostly custom stuff) and might be able to do these for you all. If you pm me the specs of the hilltrack one, I can ask him and see if he could get you a better price than £110.
littlebiglane
15-03-2008, 08:44
Unless you all are set on Hilltrack, I know a friend who sews this kind of stuff (although I think he does mostly custom stuff) and might be able to do these for you all. If you pm me the specs of the hilltrack one, I can ask him and see if he could get you a better price than £110.
Thanks for the offer. There has been quite a bit of development work on the Poncho already and Hilltrek are mid modification. It has been a while in coming but they are very busy at the moment. Hilltrek are a quality outfit and their production quality and skill is top-notch. They have many years experience in designing, testing and tailoring clothing - including ventile. That is one of the reasons why we asked them. Ventile is expensive (just take a look at other clothing made from it - you would not get a jacket for anywhere near £110 (inc vat and delivery). Even a single ventile shirt like the Westwinds would set you back £80. So I can't expect a massive saving over fabric costs. All in all I think that £110 inc P&P for such an expertly made garment is not bad value. But there is no reason why you cannot look back through this thread and use the spec to get one designed by your contact. Tell us how it goes. If it works out better and cheaper then choice is always good. I would however not want to disrespect Hilltrek and also one of our fine members, Bushven who have put some considerable time into compiling the spec, getting a prototype made and tested and having further modifications made (currently underway).
However it is your shout.
Thanks for the interest.
LBL
What grade of ventile is it? L24?
littlebiglane
01-04-2008, 01:57
What grade of ventile is it? L24?
Will check now :)
littlebiglane
01-04-2008, 19:32
What grade of ventile is it? L24?
Just checked. It is indeed L24.
I'm off the Scotland at the end of the month with a bunch of bushcrafters. (25th - 30th April)
It would be a great time to test it and get a variety of other opinions about it at the same time.
Hope I'm not too late to this, but I could be interested if the timing is right (expensive few months coming up).
littlebiglane
23-06-2008, 19:20
Okay People. I think we are starting to move on this again.
Lawrence of Bushcraft Ventures has given his considerable experience to the development and testing of this bit of kit and I totally trust his opinion (which is lucky!). He now has got the garment back from Hilltrek and has tested it. There needs to be one further modification (see his note, below) then it can go onto Wayland for final testing/review. I hope we can have something to show at the Bushmoot in early August. I have asked Lawrence for some updated pictures which I will post up when he send them through. Then the ball will be in Wayland's court :)
"Hello Mark,
I've been able to look at the poncho and have a review below.
The overall length of the poncho has been increased from 7' to 7' 6", with 3" added to the rear and the same at the front. This may not seem like much but the extra 3" at the rear means that there is better coverage, especially when wearing a Rucsac. An extra 3" may be a mean the poncho will be to long for anyone under 5' 6", but its OK for me and I'm 5" 9'. The extra overall length will also make the poncho more comfortable when use as a basha.
The hood and head opening has been increased, this makes it much easier to use the hood especially if wearing a wooly hat. A volume adjuster has also been added to the hood in order to make it a good fit. I thought this to be an important feature.
As suggested by Wayland then tapes are hidden under the fabric of the poncho, this makes the overall appearance more 'streamline' . Unfortunantly the centre loops have not been fitted, I shall get onto Hilltrek about this.
Overall the above changes have made the poncho much more practical than before, and with some minor alterations, I feel it should soon be ready for use."
Sounds good, I'm looking forward to seeing it in the cloth as it were.
How far away are we from being able to sign up for one? They're sounding really good...
hi Littlebiglane,
just to let you know I'm still keen on this. Thanks for perservering with this project.
littlebiglane
30-06-2008, 08:42
Thanks for your continued interest. It has taken an age (nearly a year!) to get this far but I think it will be worth it. Just waiting Bushven to get the poncho back to Hilltrek for a final modification with central loops for hanging (and make them hidden like the ones on the corners).
Then it is off to Wayland for final testing.
Just waiting on this really. We should have something for the Bushmoot this year.
jimjolli
01-07-2008, 22:54
very interested. please let me know.
I like the windshirt they do (kinda like a poncho) and the kangeroo style pocket is super handy too.
Olive green would be my choice of colour.
Committee/ enthusiast designed products always seem to develop like this, unless there is a business driving the design. I appreciate not everyone involved in the project is getting paid to work on it and have other priorities. Just let me know when it is available.
Dan (from wet and windy Hong Kong).
littlebiglane
18-07-2008, 07:00
Looks like we are on target to get the poncho to Wayland to bring it to the moot to show everyone. :D
Should be with Wayland sometime next week. Final modifications as per Lawrence/BushVen's last comments are being undertaken.
LBL
crazydave
18-07-2008, 12:16
not sure why I've just caught this thread, having used american, german and civvy poncho's I think the brit 58 pattern has the best design as it was designed to go over kit but the super thick super tough material made it uncomfortable to wear.
the US ones are too flimsy and like the rubber german one are smaller than the brit. I can camp out under a brit one all week.
one thing that is missing from the design is a waist tie so you can stop it blowing allover and most ponchos have snaps along the edges so you can double them up, fold them over or make sleeves out of it and turn it into a rain coat.
just my 10p's worth but if you are going to copy a design then you should pick the best :)
littlebiglane
23-07-2008, 09:30
not sure why I've just caught this thread, having used american, german and civvy poncho's I think the brit 58 pattern has the best design as it was designed to go over kit but the super thick super tough material made it uncomfortable to wear.
the US ones are too flimsy and like the rubber german one are smaller than the brit. I can camp out under a brit one all week.
one thing that is missing from the design is a waist tie so you can stop it blowing allover and most ponchos have snaps along the edges so you can double them up, fold them over or make sleeves out of it and turn it into a rain coat.
just my 10p's worth but if you are going to copy a design then you should pick the best :)
The Poncho was modelled initially on the 58 Pattern Brit one but after some feedback was made a bit larger.
Wayland now has the Poncho for testing and will take it to the moot for people to see. I am sure he will give his thoughts as and when......:D
LBL
fast celt
23-07-2008, 11:18
What about sticking a few pics up up of the poncho in use?
Waylands pretty handy with a camera:)
I am very interested also please. Unfortunately due to other commitments, I am unable to attend the bushcraft moot. Will it be possible to still get one before September?
littlebiglane
24-07-2008, 07:58
I am very interested also please. Unfortunately due to other commitments, I am unable to attend the bushcraft moot. Will it be possible to still get one before September?
Ermm, well. It has taken nearly a year to get this far....so September 2011? ;):p
Seriously, it all depends if Wayland's final testing is positive, how much, if anything further NEEDS to be done to the design. Plus the feedback from the moot. It may mean that the poncho will need to go back for further modifications. Personally I am less keen on endlesslessly adding/changing things on it to take in everyone's foibles and wants (I would like an expresso maker attachment on it...but I expect that is taking it a little too far :lmao:) After this, depending on demand (they will be made to order), agreeing on a final price (hopefully in the region of what we first envisaged and taking into account inflation and material costs increases) we can look to getting these out to people who want them.
Bags me first in the queue :eek::argue::twak::AR15firin
Thanks for the reply littlebiglane.
I agree it does sound ambitious :)
Either way I will put myself in the queue, after you of course.... cheers
Leigh
Tripitaka
28-07-2008, 20:29
I LOVE ventile! Much better than this Gore-Tex muck but only when you look after it.
My British Army SAS Ventile jacket that I bought back in the late '80s has only just given up the ghost on me but I'm still looking at ways to repair it. With the right proffing there is nothing to beat it.
I'm very interested in this. I'll take a look at the moot.
I for another shall have a look at this at the moot as well. Sounds spot on for our needs, please add me to any list going, now or in the future!!:) :swordfigh
OK... I got the poncho just before the weekend, so I took it with me to Womad, which was nicknamed Womud last year, but this year was blazing hot all weekend.
Not much of a test there then, but I did set it up as a sun shade for a little while which it handled with no problems.
I've just compared it with my issue poncho and it comes in at 300g heavier (Roughly 1200g as opposed to 900g for the synthetic one.) but it feels a lot nicer and is much more comfortable to wear.
It's slightly longer and very slightly narrower. Pack size is bigger but it still fits in the top pocket of my bergen where I normally pack my poncho.
The hood rolls back fairly well for hat wearers like me and functions well enough for people that like the confounded things. (In case you hadn't noticed I'm not a fan of hoods.) ;)
One thing I'm interested to see is whether the material stiffens up much when wet but we'll have to wait for some rain for that. My Double Ventile jacket stands up on it's own when really wet.
I think the web loops can be improved a lot. The current application is a bit over engineered and uses extra material, adding to the weight and presumably the cost.
I will try to put together my suggested construction on a test piece in time to take it to the moot and then send it back with the poncho.
Should get some piccies at the moot and sound out a few people as well. I'll probably use it as my main shelter on the Mors K. course so that should make a decent test.
Will post updates when I get back.
crazydave
29-07-2008, 16:46
well it should get a proper testing going by the forecast.
Seen it and want it!! :rolleyes: Definitely put me down on the list now..........:o
littlebiglane
09-08-2008, 18:29
Interesting. Any pics?
Will see what Wayland has taken and his testing and the views he got from bods at the Moot. Give the man some time to catch his breath! :D
Ok, I took the poncho to the moot to give it a try and used it pretty much like I would use my squaddie poncho for a meet up.
http://www.wayland.me.uk/assets/images/Poncho-under-tarp.jpg
Some of the time it was used as a gear cover for my bergen and pack, and here you can see it doing just that with my squaddie poncho, which is very similar in size, being used on the left as an extra fly.
At meet ups this is typical of my most common use for a poncho but not much of a test.
I had intended to use it as my primary shelter on the Mors Kochanski course but in the end we did not need to move camps so that plan fell by the wayside.
http://www.wayland.me.uk/assets/images/Poncho-unbelted.jpg
I did get to test it out in the rain though and it performed well, as expected, in this task.
I am not a fan of hoods so not the best person to judge, but the hood seemed well made and up to the task as well. ( I suspect I will cut mine off and make it into a high collar with a drawstring instead of trying to roll the darned thing up.)
Here you can see the poncho fastened with the press studs down each side and the length is such that with a good set of gaiters I would consider myself well covered.
http://www.wayland.me.uk/assets/images/Poncho-Fastenings.jpg
The studs are laid out with female fastenings on the front edges and male on the rear, more on this later.
The loops have been repositioned so they no longer hang outside the line of the poncho but they still seem over engineered to me. I suspect they could hold down a marquee in a gale.
http://www.wayland.me.uk/assets/images/Poncho-alterations.jpg
I have made up a small patch with some suggested modifications on it. these would make the garment lighter, easier to make and still serve the same function.
Discussing this matter with people at the moot most agreed it would be an improvement with one comment being made that the tapes could be mounted flush with the edge and still be stitched into the inner side of the turned edge. A good suggestion in my opinion.
The tape fixings are made simply by cutting longways with a hot knife and this method is used on the popular Tatonka tarps with good effect.
An interesting suggestion was made by Stuart that buttonhole webbing could be used which gives a pre-made alternative available commercially.
It was also suggested that as this comes on a roll it could be incorporated into the seam along all the edges of the poncho giving a huge number of possible tie off points.
This might be worth looking into depending on the price as it would add to both strength and versatility.
http://www.wayland.me.uk/assets/images/Poncho-over-pack.jpg
With the stud fastenings connected together there is room for a small pack under the poncho, still giving adequate coverage to the legs at the rear.
http://www.wayland.me.uk/assets/images/Poncho-with-pack.jpg
The same pack worn over the top can be seen here.
This brings me to another minor modification which could be made.
A second way to wear a poncho is to bring the rear flaps to the front and the front flaps, over them, to the rear. A belt then secures it like so.
http://www.wayland.me.uk/assets/images/Poncho-Belted.jpg
This is the method used above with the pack in place.
However, with the press studs laid out as they are, this brings male studs to male studs and female to female.
If the studs were changed on one side so that the male were on the front and the female on the rear the poncho could be studded into this configuration without the need of a belt. A minor modification but a big advantage I'm sure you will agree.
As mentioned I did not get a chance to try it out as a shelter but being much the same size as my squaddie poncho I cannot see any reason it would not perform just as well in this roll.
The feedback I received on site was generally positive with quite a few people showing interest that they had not previously posted.
My own feelings are that this is a piece of equipment that I would make good use of. It is more comfortable in use than nylon, quieter but little heavier.
Being able to open up the whole garment, it is easier to dry than a jacket.
One final consideration, being breathable, unlike a nylon poncho, I would consider wrapping it around my sleeping bag to make a simple bivvi bag on occasions. This is another reason why the change of male / female studs on one side of the poncho would be very useful in my opinion.
Will I buy it? . . . Yes with the given modifications but I will probably want to get rid of the hood for my own use.
On the subject of the location of the studs, my poncho from exped has them like this:
When laid out flat, short sides top and bottom, long sides left and right,
-the male studs are located on the lower left half and the upper right half of the long sides,
-the female ones on the upper left and lower right.
Thus one can close the poncho into one long tube.
BTW, I now know why it took so long to get a working prototype:
it took you so long to grow hair and beard to give the right appearance;)
Laid out as a tube with the end folded under I think it would make a pretty good bivvi bag.
1200g for a jacket, tarp, rain cover, groundsheet, stretcher and bivvi bag isn't bad in my book.
littlebiglane
11-08-2008, 18:31
Looking good! A fair and reasonable report Wayland. I have posted links to your review/report back to Dave at Hilltrek and I hope that the modifications can be looked at to see if/how they can be incorporated.
Then we will move to agreeing on price (I hope it will be close to what was initially invisaged) and then we can decide how orders will be taken. This will either be direct with Hilltrek or via myself (or another nominated person)
I reckon this is going to be a core bit of kit for me and replacing many items.
Thanks for your testing Wayland.
BCUK's first ventile poncho - designed by members is on its way :You_Rock_
Got to agree that the tapes used by Tatonka, although a bit surprising at first are an excellent feature. I was slightly concerned when I first opened my tarp to find there weren't any loops to pass my ridgeline through, it looked like they had been forgotten!
The tapes on the poncho looked horrible before, much better that they are tucked away and yet still functional. They may be over engineered, but at least they don't make a stylish poncho fugly!
littlebiglane
11-08-2008, 18:47
Got to agree that the tapes used by Tatonka, although a bit surprising at first are an excellent feature. I was slightly concerned when I first opened my tarp to find there weren't any loops to pass my ridgeline through, it looked like they had been forgotten! The tapes looked horrible before, much better that they are tucked away and yet still functional. They may be over engineered, but at least they don't make a stylish poncho fugly!
I totally respect Wayland's views on the loops. He is much more knowledgeable when it comes to ponchos than me. However I am fairly ambivalent as to the design of the tape/loops as long as they don't hang down / don't snag and can hold up in a gale! :) However - if the feedback from Wayland and the others at the Moot say that these could be changed/improved then I am certainly one to support this.
LBL
Don't get5 me wrong, I reckon the tatonka tapes are awesome. Due to the size of the slit compared to the length of tape, I reckon they would be pretty bomb proof. Even if they did start to open up, the weave would stop it quickly and the length of tape would allow for a large hole. Due to the fact that they sit almost flush, they won't snag and cordage or karabiners can be snapped onto them easily. If you can get the stuff, I'd use it.
Edit: re-reading my last post, it gets a bit confusing! iswitched which tarp i was talking about halfway through! Sorry! :D
1200g for a jacket, tarp, rain cover, groundsheet, stretcher and bivvi bag isn't bad in my book.
Whilst that's all true, they're exclusive of each other, i.e. you can't be wearing it as a poncho to keep the rain off yourself and be using it as a tarp to keep your gear dry, so you will still need other kit for the other purposes.
I've only just ordered a ventile jacket and haven't received it yet, but in a few reviews people have referred to jackets "going like cardboard" when wet. Did you experience this effect with the poncho?
That was something I was looking out for and it didn't happen at the moot.
I can't say it won't happen at saturation level but the poncho shed most of the water so it wasn't an issue.
Graham_S
12-08-2008, 00:16
my ventile didn't start doing the cardboard thing until the DWR had worn off.
It still shugs off the weather though.
Spikey DaPikey
17-08-2008, 19:08
I must admit that i thought why bother with this idea, but after seeing it at the moot, and having a chat with Wayland about it, i do believe its a good bit of kit :)
Still out of my price range though, but good kit none the less :D
Seems a good bit of kit and I would be interested!
I'm a bit concerned. I stand 5'6" tall in my tallest boots and don't always carry a Bergen, so there's a chance the hem will be dragging in the dirt. There looks to be more than the usual tailoring going on at the hem, so I don't think I can trim it. I think that this may be the ultimate deciding factor as to whether I can buy it.
The "extra tailoring" is an extension put on because the prototype was too short originally.
http://www.wayland.me.uk/assets/images/Poncho-Belted.jpg
I'm 5' 10" if that's any help and this last shot is without pack
(Just re-read my post and that could be misunderstood.)
subedarmajor
20-08-2008, 21:37
Is it possible to change your vote on these polls?
I've had a rethink, and I actually think it's pretty good value if the material is as good as it's supposed to be.
Is the poncho still being developed? If so I'd like to put my name down for one, that's assuming I haven't missed the boat.
Cheers, Alan.
Mike Benis
11-09-2008, 00:56
I'm also interested.... :-)
Just spotted this again amongst the new posts. I haven't voted yet, and still haven't. My vote would be for maybe - I think it's good value, but can't afford £110 at the moment.
littlebiglane
12-09-2008, 07:53
Wayland has sent the Poncho back to Hilltrek with the recommended mods. I am waiting to here back from them.
LBL
littlebiglane
15-09-2008, 18:47
Dave at Hilltrek has got back to me to say that he has got all the bits and peices from Wayland and also his recommendations. He is going through them now and will get back to me this/next week with a full response, a confirmed price and production/delivery times.
LBL
littlebiglane
28-09-2008, 14:01
Right. I think we are at the final stages now :)
I have just heard back from Hilltrek re Wayland's suggested changes.
Yes - the male/female fastenings can be changed so they can be mated properly on each side .
There is an issue with the loops being changed to button-holes however (due to not having the right machine for this job - to make button-holes) so would have outsourced at extra cost if they were to make them themselves. They have asked me though - if anyone can give them the contact details of suppliers of the pre-made button hole strips/rolls. Can someone give this to me? They have also questioned whether this will be strong enough for our use?
If this is not possible (either due to cost or time or whatever) we can keep the existing loops they have designed and, if we like, they can use thinner webbing to reduce the bulk and weight of these. However my preference is that if the loops are not changed for button-holes then you might aswell have the more robust webbing-loops and an over-engineered design so it can 'hold up a marquee in a gale'! However we will have to decide one way or another pretty soon on this one.
They have confirmed final costs to be the same at £115 with their loop design. I will have to wait a while longer to see if I can get costs for the other option with button hole tapes.
So the next and final stages are:
1) Supplier details of pre-made button hole tapes (can someone send this to me please)
2) Confirmation of price for a poncho with this modification from Hilltrek (once they have got the button-hole tape costs)
3) We need to have an agreement on loops or button-holes and go with one design and one price
4) I will need a list of those firmly interested in buying one - this is so we can show the level of interest to Hilltrek and for them to forecast the materials supply, manufacturing and delivery times
5) Then finally - how we are going to cOnduct the group buy - with with myself administering it or setting up some form of deal-direct.
LBL
Littlebiglane
Oetzi
SimonM
Thanks for all the efforts to date, by everyone!
Simon
littlebiglane
28-09-2008, 14:22
Littlebiglane
Oetzi
SimonM
Thanks for all the efforts to date, by everyone!
Simon
Ouch you jumped into my un-edited posting while I was editing it.
Okay...so with reference to Point 4 in my posting two above this one:
LBL
Oetzi
SimonM
subedarmajor
28-09-2008, 20:42
ok please add Subedarmajor to the list.
Cheers, Alan.
I definitely want one too!
LBL
Oetzi
SimonM
Subedarmajor
MikeE
I'll hold my interest until we find out about modifications. I'm likely to rip out loops and put my own tapes in and I'll probably change the hood anyway so if I'm doing that lot I might just as well make my own.
I'll try to find a supplier for them but I'm starting from scratch, just like they would have to, so we'll see.
littlebiglane
01-10-2008, 18:11
anyone else want to join the list? I see that 30 odd people have registered interest in the poll....c'mon...you know you want to....:D See post #194
LBL
Oetzi
SimonM
Subedarmajor
MikeE
harlequin
01-10-2008, 18:32
OK, I'm still interested, too!
Harlequin
littlebiglane
01-10-2008, 19:09
OK, I'm still interested, too!
Harlequin
LBL
Oetzi
SimonM
Subedarmajor
MikeE
Harlequin
Celt_Ginger
02-10-2008, 22:22
Sorry, but couldn't afford one just now.
littlebiglane
03-10-2008, 07:26
LBL
Oetzi
SimonM
Subedarmajor
MikeE
Harlequin
Huon
LBL
Oetzi
SimonM
Subedarmajor
MikeE
Harlequin
Huon
Mayfly
Sorry LBL, I can't justify buying it I'm afraid, so I'm out.
littlebiglane
05-10-2008, 13:53
Well its 8 on the list so far. Not a bad start for a credit crunch era.
Anyone else welcome to express a strong interest then add you name to the list.
Will try and get the button-hole tapes sorted. Bit of a mystery at the moment.
LBL
malcolmc
05-10-2008, 20:38
Thanks to everyone for their work on this project. :You_Rock_
Is it going to be availabe in black?
littlebiglane
05-10-2008, 21:08
Thanks to everyone for their work on this project. :You_Rock_
Is it going to be availabe in black?
LBL
Oetzi
SimonM
Subedarmajor
MikeE
Harlequin
Huon
Mayfly
Malcolmc
I'll check what colours are available. Thanks :)
LBL
Oetzi
SimonM
Subedarmajor
MikeE
Harlequin
Huon
Mayfly
Malcolmc
ZDP-189
I'm still in, but but having taken 3" of rain in my ventile smock under a PU coated nylon poncho on Sunday, I am starting to question my sanity.
Ventile is great unless it rains.
littlebiglane
27-10-2008, 07:19
Hi - its seems to be taking longer than expected again. I have gone back to Hilltrek to ask for a final spec - dimensions, ventile type (L24?), weight, number of fixings, colour choice etc. and to host a webpage with final pictures of the product (and also the possbility of linking this to their secure ordering system - should not be a problem) but they are taking an age to get back to me. Sorry guys. Will keep trying. LBL
Your efforts are appreciated mate - don't worry about it!
Simon
No problem. Let us know when you're done.
On the subject of dimensions, will this be a case of one size fits all?
Thanks for all your efforts.
Cheers,
Huon
LBL
Oetzi
SimonM
Subedarmajor
MikeE
Harlequin
Huon
Mayfly
Malcolmc
ZDP-189
I'm still in, but but having taken 3" of rain in my ventile smock under a PU coated nylon poncho on Sunday, I am starting to question my sanity.
Ventile is great unless it rains.
Oetzi
SimonM
Subedarmajor
MikeE
Harlequin
Huon
Mayfly
Malcolmc
ZDP-189
lmanton
Thanks for your efforts in organising this.
Leigh
littlebiglane
31-10-2008, 11:49
Reply from Hilltrek because of my nagging:
Hi,
Sorry that we did not respond.
We are working on it at the moment.
Hopefully I can get something up on the website by the end of next week
Regards
Dave
littlebiglane
11-11-2008, 19:54
Right. I think we are a goer. This is an email from Hilltrek:
Hi,
I would recommend that the colours offered are Olive, Black and Antique Bronze however we can also supply Red, Navy and Royal Blue.
According to my website guy it is not possible with our e-commerce package to have a ‘hidden page’ which is externally accessible.
In fact the Poncho is already on the website in a hidden page but regrettably not accessible. So tomorrow we will make it accessible to everyone.
Once the BCUK members make their purchases we plan to raise the price to say £130. However [for BCUK members] I will keep the price at £115 until Christmas.
It would be helpful however if you could get the members to place orders as soon as possible so that we can make these Ponchos in one batch.
I suggest that we allow 4-6 weeks delivery. Note that we only take money off the customers credit card just before the item is shipped.
I hope this is acceptable to you.
Dave
littlebiglane
11-11-2008, 20:04
Right. I think we are a goer. This is an email from Hilltrek:
Hi,
I would recommend that the colours offered are Olive, Black and Antique Bronze however we can also supply Red, Navy and Royal Blue.
According to my website guy it is not possible with our e-commerce package to have a ‘hidden page’ which is externally accessible.
In fact the Poncho is already on the website in a hidden page but regrettably not accessible. So tomorrow we will make it accessible to everyone.
Once the BCUK members make their purchases we plan to raise the price to say £130. However [for BCUK members] I will keep the price at £115 until Christmas.
It would be helpful however if you could get the members to place orders as soon as possible so that we can make these Ponchos in one batch.
I suggest that we allow 4-6 weeks delivery. Note that we only take money off the customers credit card just before the item is shipped.
I hope this is acceptable to you.
Dave
So...we are here at last. Bushcraft Ventile Poncho Mk1. Its taken over a year to get hear but thanks to input from members - especially Wayland and BushVen - and numerous others - we have our first poncho. Of course this may be a step into the unknown for some and whilst I feel that the Mk1 has had enough though and input to make it a very good product I hope that it grows and improves in the long term with possibly Mk2s and Mk3s (taking into account such valuable feedback as Wayland's button hole tape/loops - which we could not incorporate in this version in time)...... If not then those few who have bought the Mk1 might just have a one-off! I look forward to seeing some reviews of it on the members review section. On a personal level I hope its a fantastic product and will be looking forward to buying one and testing it out. I hope it lives up to my expectations. But, hey - nothing ventured, nothing gained eh?
I'll post up the link when it goes live. Good luck everyone. Here endeth my involvement and its over to the guys at Hilltrek. Thanks y'all.
LBL
Here it is:
http://www.hilltrek.co.uk/acatalog/copy_of_copy_of_Cabrach_Ventil e_Trousers.html
I already wanted to order, but olive green is not available (yet?).
littlebiglane
12-11-2008, 18:28
Here it is:
http://www.hilltrek.co.uk/acatalog/copy_of_copy_of_Cabrach_Ventil e_Trousers.html
I already wanted to order, but olive green is not available (yet?).
Oh - you are right. .Hmmmmm - will get them onto it.
Not the best piccie of it either - but hey - we can all see the previous pictures of it in this thread :)
littlebiglane
12-11-2008, 21:05
Here it is:
http://www.hilltrek.co.uk/acatalog/copy_of_copy_of_Cabrach_Ventil e_Trousers.html
I already wanted to order, but olive green is not available (yet?).
Okay - email from Dave says this:
"Sorry about that there must be a bug in the system. We will try to fix tomorrow however until then members can place an order on any colour and in the General Information section the state the colour they want
Regards
Dave"
Oh - yes - I see that postage is free.
Does anyone have a picture of something in "Antique Bronze". Is it like Drizabone?
You could try this Dan: http://www.snowsled.com/clothing/clothing_loosecut.htm
littlebiglane
13-11-2008, 17:23
http://www.hilltrek.co.uk/acatalog/copy_of_copy_of_Cabrach_Ventil e_Trousers.html
Okay guys - the link and extended colour choices all seem to be working now. I managed to place an order. Looking forward to getting it :)
Thanks
LBL
Some previous piccies:
http://www.wayland.me.uk/assets/images/Poncho-unbelted.jpg
http://www.wayland.me.uk/assets/images/Poncho-Belted.jpg
http://i271.photobucket.com/albums/jj130/littlebiglane/poncho11.jpg
http://i271.photobucket.com/albums/jj130/littlebiglane/poncho5.jpg
http://i271.photobucket.com/albums/jj130/littlebiglane/poncho12.jpg
http://www.wayland.me.uk/assets/images/Poncho-Fastenings.jpg
http://www.wayland.me.uk/assets/images/Poncho-over-pack.jpg
http://www.wayland.me.uk/assets/images/Poncho-with-pack.jpg
I placed an order as well but before the fix and after a phone call to make sure I got Olive Green.
I'm keen to get this as well.
Thanks for setting this up Littlebigplane!
Cheers,
Huon
Great. Is that antique bronze in the photo with the phone?
DanDan The man called Dan
14-11-2008, 12:07
Hi This is my first post here, I've migrated over from song of the paddle but have been lurking for ages and have been watching the progress of this thread for some time.
I just felt compelled to say the apparent quality (from the photos) of this poncho looks second to none. yes £110 is a lot of money but still looks like value for money to me. I have a lot of uses for such a thing and it is certainly on my wish list.
Exceptional work littlebiglane and well done Hilltrek
DanDan
littlebiglane
14-11-2008, 18:22
Great. Is that antique bronze in the photo with the phone?
Nope. That is Olive Green. Same in all the photos. But this has just been sent to me from hilltrek, a more accurate rendition of antique bronze.
http://i271.photobucket.com/albums/jj130/littlebiglane/BraemarSmockBronze.jpg
littlebiglane
14-11-2008, 18:25
Hi This is my first post here, I've migrated over from song of the paddle but have been lurking for ages and have been watching the progress of this thread for some time.
I just felt compelled to say the apparent quality (from the photos) of this poncho looks second to none. yes £110 is a lot of money but still looks like value for money to me. I have a lot of uses for such a thing and it is certainly on my wish list.
Exceptional work littlebiglane and well done Hilltrek
DanDanThank you Sir! :cool:
subedarmajor
15-11-2008, 10:59
Ordered mine yesterday. Looking forward to receiving it.
Thanks to all who worked on this project, especially LBL Wayland and the folks at Hilltrek.
Appologies to anyone I have left out.
Cheers, Alan.
Nope. That is Olive Green. Same in all the photos. But this has just been sent to me from hilltrek, a more accurate rendition of antique bronze.
http://i271.photobucket.com/albums/jj130/littlebiglane/BraemarSmockBronze.jpg
Thanks buddy! Olive Green it is then.
littlebiglane
19-11-2008, 20:49
So who's ordered one?
Littlebiglane
Oetzi
ZDP-189
Huon
subedarmajor
harlequin
SimonM (potentially!)
MikeE
Where did the other 3 interested blokies go :yo:
So who's ordered one?
Littlebiglane
Oetzi
ZDP-189
Huon
subedarmajor
Where did the other 6 interested blokies go :yo:
I ordered mine as soon as they were up on the site, I just hope it's not black as I followed yours and their instructions, for an OG one, to the letter!
Can't wait!
So who's ordered one?
Littlebiglane
Oetzi
ZDP-189
Huon
subedarmajor
Where did the other 6 interested blokies go :yo:
Tried to order but they don't accept my type of debit card.... Would still love one but need to find someone with a credit card. (I'm old fashioned, no credit cards - if I can't afford it but want it I save up!)
Simon
harlequin
19-11-2008, 23:23
I've also ordered an olive green one!
Seems to be the most popular colour.
Harly
littlebiglane
20-11-2008, 07:28
Tried to order but they don't accept my type of debit card.... Would still love one but need to find someone with a credit card. (I'm old fashioned, no credit cards - if I can't afford it but want it I save up!)
Simon
Can you write a cheque? If you paid me then I could order one on your behalf? I have also asked them if you could send a cheque direct.
littlebiglane
20-11-2008, 07:30
I ordered mine as soon as they were up on the site, I just hope it's not black as I followed yours and their instructions, for an OG one, to the letter!
Can't wait!
Do drop dave@hilltrek.co.uk and sales@hilltrek.co.uk to make sure!
Can you write a cheque? If you paid me then I could order one on your behalf? I have also asked them if you could send a cheque direct.
Thanks for the offer LBL.
Think I have it sorted now.
Simon
So who's ordered one?
Littlebiglane
Oetzi
ZDP-189
Huon
subedarmajor
harlequin
SimonM (potentially!)
MikeE
Where did the other 3 interested blokies go :yo:
Littlebiglane
Oetzi
ZDP-189
Huon
subedarmajor
harlequin
SimonM (potentially!)
MikeE
lmanton
I have ordered mine today also, in olive green.
Once again thanks LBL for your help setting this up.
Cheers
DanDan The man called Dan
21-11-2008, 09:46
I've just blown a large wad on a new Canoe and have hit my credit limit with the wife but the poncho is on the list for the new year. Together with a new bivvi bag, hammock and tarp, some tools, Firebox, lantern,...oh the never ending kit list will it ever end???????
I hope not;)
malcolmc
22-11-2008, 10:03
So who's ordered one?
...
Where did the other 3 interested blokies go :yo:
I'm awaiting a query response from Hilltrek before ordering.
littlebiglane
18-12-2008, 09:24
An update for everyone who had ordered one. We knew that production and delivery would be 4-6 weeks. Its been about a month - so I dropped Dave at Hilltrek as line. It looks like there has been a very slight delay in getting materials in and he is giving the production team a break over Christmas after a busy year. He expects that the ponchos will be ready early in January - basically a delay of two weeks or so on top of long estimate of 6 weeks - taking us to end of second week of Jan at the earliest.
From Dave:
"It looks like it will be early new year before we can deliver.
We are awaiting a delivery of fabric which has been delayed and is now
holding us up.
We were hoping to get the work done before Christmas but is unlikely to
be completed even when the fabric arrives this week. Our workshop team
are on holiday from the 24th to the 5th hence it will be the early new
year.
I apologise for this.
Best Regards
Dave"
littlebiglane
18-12-2008, 14:31
I ordered on in black!
Oh? that's very ...... stealth of you?!
beachlover
22-12-2008, 18:31
Just ordered one in Olive.
Littlebiglane
Oetzi
ZDP-189
Huon
subedarmajor
harlequin
SimonM (potentially!)
MikeE
lmanton
beachlover
malcolmc
24-12-2008, 18:44
Ordered mine, in black, yesterday. :D
Littlebiglane
Oetzi
ZDP-189
Huon
subedarmajor
harlequin
SimonM (potentially!)
MikeE
lmanton
beachlover
malcolmc
Still no sign of it here.
littlebiglane
29-12-2008, 10:16
An update for everyone who had ordered one. We knew that production and delivery would be 4-6 weeks. Its been about a month - so I dropped Dave at Hilltrek as line. It looks like there has been a very slight delay in getting materials in and he is giving the production team a break over Christmas after a busy year. He expects that the ponchos will be ready early in January - basically a delay of two weeks or so on top of long estimate of 6 weeks - taking us to end of second week of Jan at the earliest.
From Dave:
"It looks like it will be early new year before we can deliver.
We are awaiting a delivery of fabric which has been delayed and is now
holding us up.
We were hoping to get the work done before Christmas but is unlikely to
be completed even when the fabric arrives this week. Our workshop team
are on holiday from the 24th to the 5th hence it will be the early new
year.
I apologise for this.
Best Regards
Dave"
Will have to wait a while longer I am afraid
I was interested in one of these, so should explain that funds have been a bit committed elsewhere recently so haven't ordered it yet. Just keeping my powder dry a bit longer on this one and realise I may miss the opening deal. Chris