View Full Version : Hmmmm ?
falling rain
15-07-2004, 08:27
Just something that I've noticed. Bushcraft....Know more, carry less right !!?
So why is there 4,443 posts on the kit section and 350 threads ? far more than any other section. !!
What do you think ? Are we all more interested in kit than Bushcraft ?
Don't want to be controversial but it's a fact, and your thoughts would be of interest
Cheers now :wave:
TheViking
15-07-2004, 09:58
Hi...
I noticed too! :wink: :wave:
I think because there is so much kit (sleeping bag, billy, cordage, etc, etc, etc) we like to discuss and share our info on all of the kit we have. I don't know... :-D 8-)
But think you're right! Let's get some more threads up on bushcraft, or else this site should be named: Kit UK - Talk kit here (and a little bushcraft)???
Cheers guys :uu:
Let's get some more threads up on bushcraft,
Well volunteered! :biggthump
TheViking
15-07-2004, 10:48
Well volunteered! :biggthump
I'll give it a try! :biggthump :wink:
This is something that we've all noticed. And it's a good observation if you compare the kit forum to the nearest other forum. But, kit is confined to that one forum, all conversation about kit goes in there, everything. On the other hand most of the rest of the forums are orientated around bushcraft in it's different aspects. If we did the same thing with bushcraft as we do with kit and put it all into one forum we would have a forum that had nearly eight hundred threads and getting on for nine thousand posts. That's way more and they're all part of bushcraft. Oh, and those figures did not include the edged tools section which some would argue were an important part of bushcraft kit.
So yeah, there is a lot of talk about kit, it's a popular subject and I know that we've all got an interest in it at some level. But it does not take away from what we perceive bushcraft to be or how we practice it. Most people have kit because they love to buy it, when they go out in the wilds most of it gets left behind at home.
]
In the past I've had a few disgruntled people say that this is a crap forum because we allow too much conversation about kit and kit is not bushcraft...My reply has always been that they should not read that forum then, it's easy to avoid and there are many bushcraft forums on here that will cater for their perceived purity.
You don't tend to see Mr Mears without his rucksack full of gear and I suspect that we all know eh can get along just fine without it if he needs to, or is so inclined.....I think that's where most of us would like to get to. We're all on the path to becoming more self reliant in the outdoors....until we get there, kit's a life saver.
IMHO :wink:
MartiniDave
15-07-2004, 12:36
Further to what has already been said, if you are going to carry less kit, you need what you are carrying to be the rigth kit, especially in terms or durability, quality and reliability. If you are only carrying one knife for example, you want to be fairly confident that the knife you chose will hold its edge well and do what you will ask of it. That I think is why there is so much kit discussion going on.
Its also a good way of tripping over neat ideas from the more experienced amongst us.
Dave
Mmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmm........... ........Kiiiiiiiit!
:o):
Danzo
Roving Rich
15-07-2004, 12:53
Fascinating isn't it. IMHO it is where Bushcraft stems from. Picture Neanderthal man thinking " i could do with a tool that will...make fire, scrape this animal hide, hold water, crush this grain......
I think it is a fascination of all human beings and has lead through evolution to us being at the very top of the food chain, in spite of not being the strongest or fastest. So i think kit will always develop and always be of interest. As bushcrafters i guess we just strive to harvest all the kit we need to live comfortably from nature. It just depends how far you wish to go in shutting out the modern world. And the sad truth is we can never get away from it, certainly not in this country. But then every beach in the world has a plastic bottle in the flotsam and jetsam, and they all have there uses. The last Native American to be discovered still roaming the Continent was knapping arrow heads from beer bottles using a nail.
I suppose its using available resources, and we have access to infinite amounts of kit. We also have access to hotels. :wink:
I carry less kit since joining here, but the kit i now carry is better than the old. I have carried NO kit, and been hungry, tired and uncomfortable and wished I'd had .......(The answer to that is posted in another thread :lol: )
Thanks for the thread, it did make me think.
Cheers
Rich :-D
ScanDgrind
15-07-2004, 15:10
Kit can be a huge part of bushcraft.
Lets face it, if you always practice your bushcraft in the same area or environment you'll only need certain items. If however you travel to different parts of the world you will definately need a more diverse range of equipment.
Can't remember the last time I used a pair of snow shoes on Dartmoor, but I have used them in the U.S. Let's face it if you're an arm chair bushcrafter all you'd need would be a few Ray Mears DVD's :o): and I believe a few of these creatures exist.
Tony
We have to bare in mind that even the bushcrafters of yester year carried a certain amount of kit.
A lot of what we carry nowadays is a direct progression from what they carried, where once man or woman would of been out with a swag to carry thier kit in, they now use a daysack (it's more comfortable and you can carry more in it), this was due to a lifestyle where you cannot just pick up your home in your hands walk for a day to pastures new and plonk it all down on for instance a hunting trip.
If you wish, it is a bit of labour saving, we carry a tarp because it eliminated the need to construct shelter from natural resources at the end of the day, that doesn't mean that we don't know how or don't practice, what it does mean is that if we need it quickly we are not out in the elements at risk.
I know that not everyone carries spare clothing when they are out, but if you are soaked to the skin in an unpredictable enviroment then I know that you would be happy of it (especially when under a tarp and about to get into a dry sleeping bag :o): ) so it is always worth looking at the pro's and con's of specific clothing (it's weight, effectiveness and pack size).
Bushcraft isn't survival, although the skills are based around the same area, but it is about being comfortable in the outdoors without the need to carry excessive things, as people get more advanced more things become excessive to our needs, but for the sake of safety some of those things should still be carried.
Freezing to death because you don't carry a compact stove and the weather is that bad you can't get a fire going is neither survival or bushcraft. :-)
jamesdevine
15-07-2004, 15:42
I agree with everything mentioned above in particular Leon-1 point about the Bushcrafters of the past.
A prime example of this is the Ice man Otzi that was found a number of years ago. Here was a man that carried kit for fire making cutting tools etc. his clothing was a high tech as possible right down to is footware. He had taken time to choose these items and materials to make things as comfortable as possible we are no different.
I have never posted a kit list here purily because there is nothing in it out of the ordinary and as I am still very much learning 'the craft' as Gary would say it will continue to change.
But as has been mentioned above my kit list has reduced and improved since being a member here from my years of lugging an 85ltr on a weekend trips to my now 35lts after my recent course and info learnt here that could do me from nearly a week.
I think the Ice man would have approved. :chill:
Regards,
James
I think because there is so much kit (sleeping bag, billy, cordage, etc, etc, etc) we like to discuss and share our info on all of the kit we have. I don't know...
Another reason there is so much discussion on kit is that it is very subjective.
bushcraft questions tend to be objective like 'is this plant edible' or 'how do you make cordage out of nettle' and are normally answered very simply with maybe a few posts with variations and extra info.....
kit on the other hand is 'very' subjective... 'what is the best knife' 'what is the best material for a jacket' and will produce as many answers as there is members.
Just my thoughts....
:-)
Ed
Freezing to death because you don't carry a compact stove and the weather is that bad you can't get a fire going is neither survival or bushcraft. :-)
I'm still not sure I'd carry a stove an bottle when out practicing bushcraft, although that also depends on who I'm going with and the knowledge base to draw on. When out camping last weekend I actually decided to take the Kelly Kettle as I'd be waiting for an hour or so for the kids to turn up. Didn't mind carrying the weight as we only had a mile or so to walk. Trouble is that the wood around was so wet that I couldn't even find any hanging deadwood dry enough to burn. Now this was only going to be a luxury to have a cup of coffee while I waited but if I wanted to cook my evening meal I'd defiantely have had problems.
ChrisKavanaugh
16-07-2004, 03:16
What will make or break a potential bushcrafter? The answer is the same as any other leisure pursuit, be it model trains or collecting Tobey Mugs: The hobby community itself and the equipment or collected item. When I started out with horses, many people took great delight in my ignorance or else overwhelmed me with arcane trivia to look like the great equestrains they were not, nor ever would be. The competent people who took the time to explain or demonstrate tack or riding skills were few and far between. Not one piece of my initial tack collection remains with me today. I had a western roping saddle that fit niether me nor horse, a D ring racing snafflebit on a headstall that broke within 3 months and enough needless grooming supplies ( purchase demanded by my college riding instructor who turned out to get a kickback from the saddlery shop) to open up a beauty salon. Does ANYTHING sound familiar? Do we really want somebody paying a small fortune for inferior, or conversely hi end kit and find the actual experience itself spoilt by failure in both gear and expectations? This is why kit discussion is important. Not everybody gets to pull a Mears knife from a stone inscribed " He who pulleth out this blade shall be the rightwise Greenman of England." us wood elves need our moras. :oT: :o\\:
Andrew Middleton
16-07-2004, 11:25
If you like collecting kit; if you want to talk about your kit; just do it!
I've long since given up justifying anything I do, as long as it doesn't impinge on other people or the law. There are some very strange people out there with interests far hard to justify than bushcraft kit-collecting.
Each to his or her own I say. Generally, a lot of the kit threads are questions about kit rather than talking about something people have ... people are making an informed choice so that they are carrying less but at the same time carrying the right things. I tend to think also that the natural progressing goes from lot of kit to less kit but I would never urge anyone new to the outdoors to venture out with a minimal, instead, let them choose the level they are happy with.
Also, if the kit section was broken down into "fire", "shelter", "clothing", "carrying gear" and so on, these wouldn't seem to have that many posts each.
... also, we keep the retailers going and help the economy.
i think falling rain was less commenting on the Kit Forum as he was appealing for more bushcraft related subjects. i enjoy discussing kit. ordering a new shiny toy fills with some pleasure. Its not the same as a bushcraft fix but you get the point.
Recently the wildlife and tracking section has become a hot bed of new info and thanks to the mods and Rhoda i have rekindled a long cherished desire to learn more.
it would be good to read some more of your tales. sadly due to cash restrictions my globe trotting days are limited. reading about others experiences and best practise helps all to avoid mistakes and allows bushcraft to be seen by the wider public in a more positive light.
basically i just want more of the same. helpful hints wether they be about kit or places to visit. long may BCUK continue to grow especially the meet ups.
cheers,
I'll illuminate on my earlier post.
:wink:
Unless we go butt-nekkid into the wilderness and attempt to make all we need from that which we find then there is surely a danger of becoming a little precious?
Unless we are all about to become Amish or do the crocodile thing in Borneo then we all MUST use some types of 'kit', however that is defined.
I admire you if you knit your own woollen underpants from threads you find on hedgerows but that isn't for me. I like my underpants well woven in cotton and my boots well made from groovy modern stuff. That way my feet are warm and dry and I don't have nails sticking in my feet. I like trousers with lots of pockets and undershirts free from lice. I'm odd like that.
The knives I would take with me are handmade, but not forged over a broken wheel on the steppes under a darkening sky.
If I light a fire with a British Safety Match then I have lost my Zippo or spare BIC. In fact if I touch my survival tin then I have failed and am in serious trouble.
If we go back to our most primeval sources then kit defined the ability of one person to leave the security of that community and go to another, and hence build the links to what we sometimes laughably call civilisation.
Thoughts?
:o):
Danzo
Brynglas
16-07-2004, 21:04
:pack:
I agree with you Danzo, up to a point. I am by no description a Luddite, however I do hold the opinion that in certain circumstances new technology does not hold the answer to all of the problems that we face in the outdoors. For example, I enjoy mountaineering and skiing, much of which takes place in a high mountain environment and in low temperatures, in these circumstances the weight of a heavy wool coat and hob nailed boots as advocated by Poucher a hundred years ago are likely to cause me far more problems than be of benefit, by virtue of the extra weight and the poor wicking ability ofvthe materials, and that's to say nothing of hawser laid best quality manila rope, In that environment, for me, it is far better to stay dry and wear the lightest kit possible as anything that can hinder progress in that environment can well be fatal. The same goes for my sea kayaking cag and wetsuit is made of the most modern material that I could find.
On the other hand, if I'm likely to spend more than a couple of days in the same clothing, and am more bothered about warmth and next to the skin comfort in a wet/ inclement environment then it's natural fibres all the way.
In short, for me it's horses for courses. I have spent many hours practicing my bowdrill skills and methods of effective firelighting under diverse conditions, as well as my shelter building skills, all have stood me in good stead at one time or another, that dosen't mean for one minute that I would consider leaving the house without my turbo flame lighter and firesteel somewhere in my kit.
(I'd also be lost without my camera and binos in the wild)
Cheers
Jamie
It's simple:
Bloke + Kit = :o):
This works for any forum/site.
It's simple:
Bloke + Kit = :o):
This works for any forum/site.
I like that formula!!! :biggthump
I don't! :yikes: Blatent sexism! :nono: