View Full Version : sleeping mats
I've always used cheap closed cell mats when camping as the bulk hasn't been a major problem and they cost very little, but I'm now going camping on a bike where anything long will cause problems so I'm thinking of getting a thermarest or similar.
How do people get on with the 3/4 length ones?
What orther brands should I look at?
Does anyone want to sell me one?
Highlander make one - Thermalite Ultra. Very small, fairly light, cheap and olive green. Am pleased with mine.
It is quite thin though so only slightly more comfy than a closed cell mat. I find the 3/4 length adequate (at least for 2 season use) but not everyone will agree.
I use a themarest 3/4 ultralite which packs down very small and is comfortable. I've used it all year round both in bivvi bag and tent and not had any problems. I think mountain equipment also do mats which are supposed to be quite good also.
Roving Rich
09-07-2004, 12:49
I had a 3/4 length, but fortunately it got lost flying back from Peru. Never got on with it, caused cold/damp feet. Bought myself a full length one and have never regretted it. It works fine for all my cycling trips. I put it length ways on top of the pannier rack, rather than across it. So i still have quick access into the panniers.
Cheers
Rich
I use a 3/4 Insua-Mat from Mountain Equipment. Easier to roll up, lighter and just as robust. Kath has a 3/4 Thermarest and I can't see much difference in the two (other than the stuff sack for the Mountain Equipment is bigger so it's easier to put away.
Just to be awkward I use a 3/4 (cut down) closed cell foam army surplus mat - the bit I cut off i use to make inner soles (really good in Mocassins those making them) - I used to have a thermarest and that was pretty damn good too.
I'm prefer a full length mat myself and use a full length Therm-A-Rest Ultralite. I'm a grump if I don't get a good nights sleep and don't enjoy being cold.
ranger
I've been using a 3/4 length ultralite since 1992 and wouldn't be without it now :D
steven andrews
09-07-2004, 16:40
I had enough uncomfortable nights during my time as an infantry soldier.
I now use a full length Thermarest Trail. That 1/4 makes all the difference!
RovingArcher
09-07-2004, 18:12
I use a 3/4 Ridgerest by thermarest.
C_Claycomb
09-07-2004, 20:19
I have a 3/4 thermarest and it is pretty good, but I would find a full length one more comfortable.
I guess it is just how I am built, but I find that if I don't jack my feet up a little, so they are at a similar level as the mat, I get lower back ache. :***: A lot of back ache! I am about 5'7", dunno whether it would be better to be taller or shorter though. I bought the mat without having tried one first. That was a mistake! :nono:
Other than that, it is very comfy! :lol:
ditchfield
09-07-2004, 20:29
I used my 3/4 length thermarest for the first time at Glastonbury festival and found it very comfortable......except for I had to rest my feet on a bin liner full of cold wet cans of beer.
rapidboy
09-07-2004, 20:36
Had a 3/4 thermarest but changed it for a full length version.
Very little weight difference and much more comfortable and keeps sleeping bag cleaner and dryer.
Also have a full length "Deluxe" ,twice the size of the standard version when rolled up but twice as thick when inflated.
Very comfortable when weight and size are not as important.
The deluxe model is still more compact than my closed cell mat's and i usually take it rather than the standard model as i get a better nights sleep.
The proof........
http://img25.photobucket.com/albums/v76/rapidboy1/377_7737crop_1.jpg
RB
i also got the 3/4, but haven't really tested it yet. Feels much beter than closed cell mats. I slept like a baby one one of those, after walking 20KM. Closed cell mats do feel like **** wenn you haven't walked many km before you lie on them.
bushblade
09-07-2004, 21:47
The new range of thermarests are excellent, in particular the Pro Lite 3's pack up incredibly small and light. I use a Pro Lite 3S (short) in my hammock in the warmer months, and a Pro lite 3R (regular) with my bivi bag and basha in colder conditions. The Pro Lites are mummy shaped and have a very grippy base, this means they stay put under you in a hammock without having to put them inside your sleeping bag (never realy liked that).
If I'm vehicle based or sleeping round a mates, I have a Thermarest expedition R which is 5cm thick but uses the same foam inside as last years ultralite/guidelites, so still packs up very small and light for what it is.
I've also used Mountain equipment mats (in the integral sleeping bags) Multi Mat self inflating mats and the Robens range of self inflating mats.
Thermarest is by far the best in terms of pack size, weight, and comfort. But once you've gone over to self inflating mats, regardless of manufacturer, you won't want to go back to closed cell foam :biggthump ......unless you're Gary........apparantly :wink: :mrgreen:
RAPPLEBY2000
09-07-2004, 23:18
ok here's my 2 pence!
i have always used closed cell mats and recently moved over to thermarest type mats.
i find the thermarest type far more comfortable!
i have only used a 3/4 length once, i did not find it comfy, i am around 5'11-6'00 and average build.
i'm surprised no one has mentioned using your rucksack as ground insulation for the foot end! i assumed everyone did it!
there are a couple of fors and againsts!
closed cell mat advantages 8-) :
cheap, very light, very warm, robust, reliable.
closed cell mat disadvantages :-( :
very bulky, not very comfy, can soak up water.
thermarest type advantages: 8-)
very comfy, warm, compact, adjustable air pressure(soft or hard).
thermarest type disadvantages: :-(
heavier than closed cell!, safer to carry it in your rucksack to stop thorns etc.
, HOLES!, you have to be more gentle with them, more carefull of where you use them, can be colder than closed cell.
one experience of mine is i have one that has a slow puncture, so it's lovely and cosy intill you sleep then it goes down, the cold hard floor wakes you up! so there you are blowing it up every hour or so!
for your own sanity take some form of repair kit! at least tank tape!
(i have tested mine in water ect and can't find a hole it must be the valve! :banghead:
on my SPA training with my expensive thermarest type bed, i was desperate to by a £5 Millet's mat to see me through the cold nights!
i had to cover my sleeping area with spare clothing and my towel to stay warm!
i would say as a rule use a closed cell mat for rough "stop and drop" type camping on rough ground.
and a thermarest when you have time to check the floor or if you are using a tent or ground sheet!
safest option is to carry both a 3/4 thermarest and a 3/4 closed cell mat to act as foot insulation and thorn/stone protection! :banghead: :?: :wink:
rapidboy
09-07-2004, 23:33
RAPPLEBY2000 you say thermarest type.
My father is on his second thermarest copy and both leak at the valve.
I have had my 2 genuine thermarests for about 5 years and both are good as new.
Always worried about puncture's but they have proved to be very durable so far.
I have found the genuine versions to be superior to most of the copies.
More expensive but you get what you pay for in many cases.
RB
RAPPLEBY2000
09-07-2004, 23:46
fair point!
i have a genuine standard thermarest for "family camping", and a 3/4 thermarest actually bought for my son, with the praviso that i could "play" witrh it.
the leaky mat was actually fine when i bought it equivalent to an ultralight thermarest, i.e. full length but rolls in half.
its called "enviromat" as new £40, bought from Oxfam for £2.45! sold as an excersise mat!
was fine for several trips away, but as i say, i think its the valve!
i agree not as good as the real thing! :biggthump
Great Pebble
10-07-2004, 00:01
Just to be awkward (or alternatively, IMHO) I dun' like Thermarest type mats/beds whatever you want to call them, and yes, I have used them.
The closed cell type (I've always called it a "kip mat" :?: ) aren't "comfy" but then they aren't designed to be, you get comfy by picking a good bed spot & I won't tell you I've never had an uncomfortable night on one. But, they don't bust, even if they get pretty badly mauled you can still use them and when they eventually do go all flat on you, you can 'cannibalise' them for alsorts of useful outdoor purposes.
Okay, they're bulky which is the crux of your problem - have you tried one of the sectional German mats?
I'm sort of biased towards simple things when it comes to my "out" kit as I can't imagine anything worse than relying on something being there only to fid that some small part essential to its function has failed at the darkest, wettest time possible... Mind you, I've still be known to take a laptop to the woods.... Hey, I write..but can't write, if you see what I mean.
Not trying to convert you or anything, just offering an alternative POV.
Roving Archer, how do you find the ridge rest, I have listened to everyone here say that they like the normal therma-rest (I own one myself and find it excellent), but it is always worth looking at other alternatives.
Great Pebble I also call closed cell kipmats and have not really had problems with them, I used a closed cell in South Georgia for 4 and 1/2 months, but we had to make sure it was of a specific type, but as someone else in this thread mentioned certain types do absorb water and as such you had to be carefull (in -30'c you can't take too many chances).
RA, do you think that the Ridge Rest woud hold up in the very severest conditions?
RovingArcher
10-07-2004, 05:24
Leon, I like the mat. I guess it's recesses trap the body heat, because it seems to help keep me warmer than the solid foam mats have in the past and so far it's taking the usual beating that I put my mats through. My beating my mats up is why I don't use a self-inflater. It's about as comfortable as a solid foam mat, especially after I get my bed area built up with some soft debri. :-)
Yep, I know what you mean, from what I understand the ridge rest is supposed to trap air in the ridges to provide an insulating layer (it has a similar effect to the normal therma-rest), but is designed for harder ground where a normal therma-rest may get punctured. :-)
It is good to hear that they work well though, it is an idea for when my therma-rest gives up the ghost :-)
So it sems most people prefere the full length offerings and if I'm going to spend money on one I may as well get a really good one thats small and light. Anybody havew any suggestions as to the cheapest place to get a light weight full length thermarest?
rapidboy
10-07-2004, 11:08
I joined the "outdoor pursuits co-operative" a few years ago when i was buying my thermarests.
Dont know if they still exist but they used to be pretty keen.
i have used all three combinations, 1 being a closed cell matt, 2 being 3/4 length therm-a-rest, 3 being the full lenght version. i gave up on the 3/4 length one very quickly, it is hard to get your feet and your body on a good paralel (sp) enless you are on perfectly flat ground, and i found i got lower back pains and not a great nights sleep, also you do lose a lot of heat, like someone said that extra 1/4 makes the difference. so now i use my full length therm-a-rest practically all the time, enless i am traveling very light, in which case i use a closed cell!!!!
also on the issue of punctres, i put my therm-a-rest on on of those very tough sea-line dry bags and have it on the out side of my pack when walking and then just chack the ground over before i put it down anyway, i have been using it for a few years and have never had a puncture!
Brynglas
11-07-2004, 00:00
As far as the thermarest matresses go, I've had lightweight full length one for about five years now, and I've used it in all sorts of conditions, tents, bivvies and even snowholes,all without a problem.
My only gripe is that I'm not a huge fan of having kit strapped to the outside of my sack, particularly if I'm climbing. As a result I also occasionally use a folding kipmat which I can slide into the back panel of my sack, not quite as comfortable, or possibly as insulated, but more portable.
I also use my kipmat with my hammock as I find a lot of heat goes through the bottom of the hammock. I know that a great deal has been made of the hennessy hammocks by many people, I'm sure that they're excellent, I find that my arktis hammock and a basha do a great job and are extremely hardwearing. The arktis is a good military design which has a great feaure where you can slide poles into sleeves down the sides of the hammock and build an A frame bed, which is also really comfortable. It's also a great deal cheaper than some of the other models about. :pack:
Andy, the canadian forces get issued with a sleeping mat which is very much the same as a therma-rest, I have only ever seen them once or twice in surplus stores, but they are normally reasonably priced, it may be worth keeping an eye out for one. :o):
I currently use an Insul-Mat inflatable mattress with an integrated pillow, super comfortable, but not very warm, and a pain to deflate. So I'm thinking of replacing it with a self-inflatable mat. Thermarest are too expensive, so has anybody tried Exped SIM mats? Otherwise the Highlander ones seem quite good, but the full length ones are heavy, so that leaves the 3/4 length. Are short mats really bad?
I think somebody mentionned the german army sectional mat. My brother has got one, the design is quite good (like most bundeswehr stuff :)), but it does have some downsides. It's quite light (400g), it folds up into a "block" instead of a roll, wich makes it easier to fit inside a bag, so you can use it as a replacement frame for your bag (actually the bundeswehr day pack is designed to use the sleeping pad as a frame). It's also just the right size to use as a seat when it's folded up, good for insulation from the cold ground =). The downside is that it's very, very thin, only 5mm, so it doesn't give much padding nor insulation.
They sell them here: http://www.flecktarn.co.uk/flbkm1ux.html (n.b: it's 56cm thick, not 80, and it folds in two width wise, then folds lenght wise, that's why it's quite thin). The same site also sell the mess kits (cheap and good billy can) and Esbit stoves.
the 2003 model are avaible with 25 to 30% discount here, you can get one even cheaper wenn you buy a used one, i got mine 3/4 for €17.
I had planned to buy a selfinfaltable pillow which cost € 6,00, to put on one end ( not on the mat ) and mine spare fleece or wool on the other end for my feet. I just can't find that pillow anymore... argh !
On the point of warmth, I have to vote for the thicker thermarest mats. Using a (good) down bag in cold weather I still find that I lose too much heat through a karrimat - so a thermarest is pretty well essential. I prefer a full length mat. For me the thermarest ultralite's are too thin. I've settled on the guidelite model as a because it's as thick, warm and comfortable as the original bulky thermarests but packs smaller and lighter.
Cheers
The General
11-07-2004, 22:36
I use a 3 season foam mat under a Thermarest Luxury basecamp model mat. Thus I get a better nights sleep and don't have to worry about a puncture... though I still carry the official repair kit... just in case.
Just in case is why I carry twice as much kit as I really need. :roll:
Just in case is why I carry twice as much kit as I really need. :roll:
:o): :rolmao:
thermarest make a special version for issue to the US army, its essentally a ultralite with a tougher outer, perfect for bushcraft
http://www.tadgear.com/x-treme%20gear/sleeping%20systems%20main/ultralite_long_military.htm
That looks good ... even the color is better as those burgandy Thermarests soon look rough when user outdoors on the ground!
bushblade
12-07-2004, 13:26
thermarest make a special version for issue to the US army, its essentally a ultralite with a tougher outer, perfect for bushcraft
http://www.tadgear.com/x-treme%20gear/sleeping%20systems%20main/ultralite_long_military.htm
A bit big and heavy though, when compared to the Pro Lite range. Besides they're all green after you've put them inside your bivvy bag or hammock.
That looks good ... even the color is better as those burgandy Thermarests soon look rough when user outdoors on the ground!
Burgandy... I've got one of the new snazzy bright ORANGE mats...mmmmm bet you can't spot me at night :yikes:
I love the thermarest, don't really think I could go back to normal roll mat after using these. The only gripe I've got is the top is so damn slippery, anything more than 1-2 degree incline and its like sleeping on a slide at the park!!!