View Full Version : survival bag advice
mattw4466
31-05-2007, 06:39
so far I have a hatchet,folding saw,fixed blade knife, iodine tablets, sharpening stone, twelve snares, 1 coninbear, 1 foot hold, fishing lures/hooks/weight/line, Minnow sein, medical kit, flashlight, maya sticks, wind/water proof matches, lighter, duct tape, bright orange tape, gas mask, surgical mask, paracord, goggles, firesteel, crow call/squirrel call, signal mirror, aluminum foil, a pot, clear plastic bags, bug spray, water filter-------any advice on something that I should add or care to share your own. Thanks.
so far I have a hatchet,folding saw,fixed blade knife, iodine tablets, sharpening stone, twelve snares, 1 coninbear, 1 foot hold, fishing lures/hooks/weight/line, Minnow sein, medical kit, flashlight, maya sticks, wind/water proof matches, lighter, duct tape, bright orange tape, gas mask, surgical mask, paracord, goggles, firesteel, crow call/squirrel call, signal mirror, aluminum foil, a pot, clear plastic bags, bug spray, water filter-------any advice on something that I should add or care to share your own. Thanks.
What are:
- 1 coninbear, and
- Minnow sein
gas mask
No M-16 with 203 launcher? :AR15firin ;)
On a serieus note:
Maybe a light sleeping bag, and looking at the style of your kit, maybe a poncho (doubles as tarp / basha / hootchie, rain gear, if it's camo: concealment, bivy bag to keep your sleeping bag dry in an improvised shelter.
Personally I'd ditch
- duct tape, or make it is bright orange (saves weight / bulk)
- gas mask and surgical mask (what's the chance on a (N)BC attack at your location, at the same time as you're around? And ... for the surgical mask, though it doesn't way much ... don't think you plan to do open heart surgery in the field? :D
- crow call/squirrel call (it's considered to be extremely impolite to whistle at your dinner ;))
Scots_Charles_River
31-05-2007, 08:56
A gas mask ?
What you need
A large bag or cupboard or a place to camp.
Nick
What food do you have in the bag?
Compass and maps?
Something like a inflateable water bladder or 2, doubles as floatation device.
Tea lights, besides light small amount of warmth yo can whittle the diameter down wrap in corrugated cardboard, place back in container and use them as a wax cooker.
With some of those objects in there is hard to work out what your planning for but with Squirrel/bird call some surgical tubing to make a catapult might be usefull.
Handfull on nails. ( construction, tent pegs, spear/arrow tips )
Superglue.
Monocular.
Squidders
31-05-2007, 12:49
What are you hoping to survive? I notice you don't have shark repellant in there :p
No orange Hi viz vest or multitool?
ppppffffffffssssssshhh MULTITOOL, get yourself a SAK!!!!!!!
leon
mattw4466
31-05-2007, 16:37
I'm hoping to survive whatever needs surviving. Personally I consider the gas mask one of the most valuable pieces of the kit, I realized terrorism was a reality when 5,000 of my countrymen were murdered two hours from my home not so long ago. A conibear is a type of trap that closes on an animals body, a minnow sein is just a big net for fish. Thanks for the other suggestions.
Squidders
31-05-2007, 17:14
hmmm , that sounded like trolling to me... this is a bushcraft forum.
While I am accutely aware that many americans died a number of years ago, the american media had no problem showing the footage of peoples deaths live (does that make it a snuff movie?), surviving terrorist attack isn't covered by any bushcraft course I have done.
mattw4466
31-05-2007, 17:21
hmmm , that sounded like trolling to me... this is a bushcraft forum.
While I am accutely aware that many americans died a number of years ago, the american media had no problem showing the footage of peoples deaths live (does that make it a snuff movie?), surviving terrorist attack isn't covered by any bushcraft course I have done.
First of all, I have nothing to do with the "American media", secondly I gave a list of what was in my bag, and people questioned the gas mask so I felt I needed to make it clear how important I thought it was. If that is an innapropriate item to make mention of on this site then just forget about it- i didnt realize people would take offense to it, please continue with your suggestions and thanks for the ones mentioned.
Squidders
31-05-2007, 17:40
Ok, whenever someone recommends an item of kit, it should be for a reason, there is, afterall, no point in packing something you don't need or want... it's dead weight.
When I pack any kit, I think to myself "what am I likely to encounter?" and it's that information I was trying to get at... the smiley face I used should have set a mild humoured tone that would not normally warrant such a strong and untempered response.
I for one can't help with such a generic "whatever needs surviving" because that may involve medication for diabetes, equipment for a heart attack or anything.... "is this just for you or for your family" as an example.
However, if you are trying to build a ditch kit type bag of tricks for a rough time of year in an urban or wilderness environment we can help... without that basic information, all we're doing is throwing bits of kit that we like at you.
I would like to recommend and help and learn a few things myself from this but if there is no specific goal, we're never going to reach it.
Cheers,
Joe
First of all, I have nothing to do with the "American media", secondly I gave a list of what was in my bag, and people questioned the gas mask so I felt I needed to make it clear how important I thought it was. If that is an innapropriate item to make mention of on this site then just forget about it- i didnt realize people would take offense to it, please continue with your suggestions and thanks for the ones mentioned.
madrussian
31-05-2007, 17:50
I agree with you Sqidders, however, I also keep a kit for each member of my family because I live in hurricane country. I try to keep in them what I think would make life comfortable should I return home from an evacuation and all I have left is a cement slab. :eek: So my kit has alot of items that would be extra weight provided we were to go camping or whatever. As far as a gas mask goes I don't own one, however, rather than a terrorist attack, I would be more concerned with a train derailment and toxic chemical spill which could happen in my town and has already, then a gas mask would come in handy. I think what mattw is looking for is what I have heard called a bug out bag. Kinda like my emergency kit, but with a little of everything. Not Bushcraft mind you, but more of a survival kit. Just my humble opinion.
Alex
mattw4466
31-05-2007, 17:51
Alright, that's true. Items for a very long hike, three weeks maybe. I am only carrying a backpack, I have a multi-tool and knife on my belt. Only supplies for myself and also assume it's less then ideal, for instance I can't take three weeks worth of food and water. Also has anyone read any good books on navigation. Oh and by the way it's a temperate climate. Thanks!
Don't want to cause a rukas but are you seriously expecting something to happen that would mean you'd need all that stuff? Do you live and work in the middle of nowhere? If so the chances of you being hit by a terrorist attack are so amazingly slim that you may as well worry about random planes simply falling out of the sky and landing on you. If you live and work in a large town chances are this will all be in your car and you'll not get to it soon enough. Sorry to put a downer on your plans but don't you think you're being a little paranoid?
madrussian
31-05-2007, 18:00
How about mosquito netting, water filtration system, condiments, book on edible plants, camera, waterproof bag liner, hammock, tea bags, beef jerky. That's just some of what I keep in my hunting bag that you haven't mentioned yet. There is plenty more. :D
Matt,
There are other sites that may be more in tune with the type kit you are contemplating. This is more of a primitive camping and field craft sort of mind set here. Not a survival board at all.
I'd be happy to help but this is not the place. Training and practice with the various tools are just as important if not more so. PM me if you are serious.
what kind of gas mask?
first of all, if you going to carry a gasmask, you will need a suit too. Vapors that are absorbed by the skin, is just as leathal/harmfull. It only takes longer to die (that can be a bad thing too...)
No NBC gloves and boots? those are one of the most importent to prevent liquid exposure to any Chemcical agents.
no decontamination stuff?
secondly most gasmaks that are sold, are old masks that have will have developed cracks and stuff, causing leaks that which can be hard to find.
The old filter cannisters are often trainings cannisters (teargas), some have tiny capactity (soviet civilian models), occationally asbestos is used as part of the filter medium and if you unlucky enough some have reactive cores that turns toxic over the years.
i highly recommend not to carry a gasmask, if you'r not trained in using them. And if you do carry them, you need the hole NBC kit, or else you wasting time. And for god sake don't forget to remove the seal on the intake side of the cannisters.
madrussian
31-05-2007, 19:14
That's true Weaver but both schools of thought overlap. Bushcraft skills and survival skills are one in the same in many respects. I think Bushcraft is more of a back to basics approach. More in tune with how the ancients did things. Sometimes a mixture of old and new. Depending on who you ask. :D
Scots_Charles_River
31-05-2007, 22:40
I understand the reasoning for the gas mask now. :o
I suppose if I lived in Tornado Alley I would have a grab bag for in case the house is hit. I would also have some guns if I lived in LA in case of riot. And maybe some other stuff If I lived in NY. Maybe an open boat if I lived in New Orleans.
I have candles and tinned food for in case of a power failure here, happened once.
I was taught in primary school what to do if the Atomic Bombing happened.:)
Nick
mattw4466
01-06-2007, 03:22
Don't want to cause a rukas but are you seriously expecting something to happen that would mean you'd need all that stuff? Do you live and work in the middle of nowhere? If so the chances of you being hit by a terrorist attack are so amazingly slim that you may as well worry about random planes simply falling out of the sky and landing on you. If you live and work in a large town chances are this will all be in your car and you'll not get to it soon enough. to put a downer on your plans but don't you think you're being a little paranoid?
I'm not hoping or expecting to use it, I pray that I never have to. But it is defenately in my interest to be prepared. I figure throw a bag together and it will always be there just in case. I'm sure lots of people see it as being paranoid, but i see it as only a little bit of effort now with potentially life saving effects.
My advice if you are going on a long hike is to take every item out of your bag and weigh it.
Now look at the weight and compare it to the likely hood of you using it.
Survival equipment should be light, otherwise it will increase your risk factor by being over loaded.
Rations for three weeks will be heavy enough to carry even if you are supplimenting it with fish and game on the way. (It is wise to work on the assumption that you will not catch anything at all, if you do it is a bonus, not part of your staple rations) Although lacking in variety cous cous is probably the lightest form of palatable food to carry.
You haven't mentioned sleeping arrangements or shelter but I trust you have thought about them.
I presume the pot is for cooking but what about carrying water. Lack of water will kill you long before lack of food even in temperate conditions.
you sould make 2 bags a grab bag for your home or car with the 9/11 type stuff in
and a bushcraft bag for camping
a gas mask won't be much use in the woods as there's no cnn or fox to tell you to put it on
and by then it will be too late unless some calls you with a mask on and that would be one mad phone call
likewise a fishing kit is no good in a city
best to make 2 i think
Jedadiah
01-06-2007, 09:02
Yep, think i would agree with some of the above,
1. Compass and map's
2. Tarp /hammock /bivvy bag (delete as applicable)
3. Rations
4. Millbank bag or medium/large capacity bladder (MSR type thing)
5. Sleeping bag
6. Weatherproof / waterproof overclothing
7. Hats (boonie for sun and rain if it is proofed, watch cap for the cold)
8. Karabiners
9. wire coat hanger (folds up nice and small, unfolds easy, many uses)
10. Mini binoculars
there are many others. Just an idea, why don't you pack what you think you need and go away for the weekend, not too far away from home. By the time you get home you should have a list of what you did not use and a list of what you needed but did not have. That way you will have a more realistic idea of what you need. Remember, there is a difference between what you need and what you want. This is what the Voyagers did in Canada when they set of from their home camp on a route, a couple of miles down stream, set up camp, if something is missing, send a canoe back up stream to get it, it was not far.;)
Without going into the 'respirator/gasmask' argument, if the gas mask is deemed too extravagant, you could consider NBC facelets; these are similar to surgical masks and were designed for emergencies. They are to be worn when a respirator is not imediately to hand and they fold up nice and small. This would allow you to, in the event of an NBC attack, be orally protected until you could find the nearest cover (or a cache containing respirator and NBC clothing). Just an option.:D
mattw4466
01-06-2007, 18:00
awesome suggestions, thanks. About the caribener, I know its a peice of rock climbing/ descending equipment, but im not sure exactly how it is used, can someone enlighten me, thanks!!
madrussian
01-06-2007, 18:26
I can't help you cause there ain't no rocks in Louisiana. :D
Scots_Charles_River
02-06-2007, 19:48
awesome suggestions, thanks. About the caribener, I know its a peice of rock climbing/ descending equipment, but im not sure exactly how it is used, can someone enlighten me, thanks!!
It's just a strong metal clip.Clip your rope to a tree or hammock .
Nick
Jedadiah
04-06-2007, 09:10
Karabiners have many different uses. Clip things together for river crossings, clip things to your Bergan, there are many types as well. Please remember that some are weight bearing and some are not. Do not use non-weight bearing one's to climb etc. If your in 'bear' country you could use one to attach your food bag to the rope before hoisting it, saves on knot work. As said before, they can be used for tarps and hammocks or anything else you can think of!
oldsoldier
04-06-2007, 15:52
A little word of advice on the gasmask; the military uses them, but in conjunction with a detection device. Most types of chemicals used in attacks are colorless & ordorless. Even if they Do have color/odor, by the time you don a mask, it is most likely too late. HAving spent 12 years as an infanryman, I can tell you from experience that, short of wearing it 24/7, without some kind of detection device, you are pretty much screwed. They issue atropine to troops not to cure them from a chemical attack, but to speed up their metabolism & get a few extra hours of life out of them. Chances are, if you're at ground zero during a chemical attack, you will suffer the symptoms. Outside of it, it will either be dissipated by the wind, or you'll have enough time to evacuate. Chemical attacks are VERY target-specific, as they have a limited exposure life due to the environment.
Now, as far as practical skills & books, I highly recommend the SAS survival handbook by John Lofty Wiseman. And, practice the life saving things first; building fire, making shelter, procuring water. Best of luck to ya!
Scots_Charles_River
04-06-2007, 17:17
Outside of it, it will either be dissipated by the wind, or you'll have enough time to evacuate. Chemical attacks are VERY target-specific, as they have a limited exposure life due to the environment..
That's why birdflu is so bad, it can last a long time as it's the humans/birds that pass it on.
What about that Asian thing when folk were wearing masks all the time in public ? Just did a bit of browsing and found this http://www.newscientist.com/article.ns?id=dn7261
And further reading here
http://www.who.int/csr/delibepidemics/en/
Now, as far as practical skills & books, I highly recommend the SAS survival handbook by John Lofty Wiseman.
Aye, and it's available pocket size, Collins (scottish) Publishers. A great wee read.:cool:
Nick
oldsoldier
04-06-2007, 19:40
True, I was talking specifically about chemical weapons. As far as flu-like stuff, thats a different story. A simple paper mask would most likely work. However, I think he was referring more to a chemical attack, and, I am assuming here, a military type gas mask.
Of course, the best defense against the flu is to do exactly what I do; walk around telling everyone you NEVER get sick ;) Denial can be a wonderful medicine.
bio hazard can not be stopped by just having a gasmask or paper mask.
If you are going to wear something to protect you self from flu, a FFP2 or FFP3 (N95 and N100 for the yanks) standard masks. These mask will stop the tiny droplets, which the virus uses to spread around. but a mask it self is not enough. Since you got to eat, drink, etc. The greatest hazards are you hands, wash them properly. Before touching anything (not just food) and be aware of cross contamination. Proper discipline will be more importent than just the mask.
As for the gasmask against chemical attacks, as a civilian, your always to late, since you can not physically detect it. Proper decontamination and simply walking in the right direction in to the fresh air is much more important, than a mask. If i ever see a person with just a mask and no suit, gloves and boots walking past a HotZone line, i will kick him back, rip the masks off and drag him to decon. Because that person is a danger for him self and others, he will contaminate others in the clean zone. (well atleast if i'm wearing the right gear...)
I don't know if decontamination protocols are free for access in the states or in britain. I do know that it is public in the Netherlands, know why, because i let somebody put in on the site of the ministery.