View Full Version : Sabre 45 + Pouches.
Hi All,
My first post here and I'm hoping some of you can help me out.
I have an ex issue Bergen 100l + side pouches which I thought were 12.5l each.
The mice have had the main bergen and it's now full of holes and it's the excuse I've been looking for to buy a smaller pack. Luckily the pouches are fine.
The sabre 45 is obviously very highly rated and that could be the answer but I'm confused and don't want to spend any cash until I'm sure.
So I guess the question is are all PLCE side pouches created equal? :confused:
I've read on the Karrimor website (and here) that the pouches are 10l not 12.5l. Can I be sure that If I purchase a sabre 45 that my pouches will fit? Maybe my memory is going and the side pouches are 10l and not 12.5l but I'm sure the whole thing was 100 + 25? They have the clips top and bottom and zips on the side plus the little strap loops (which I've never used.)
My bergen isn't brand new but I guess it's less than 10yrs old. I'm not interested in the yoke or similar - just the ability to up the capacity of the sabre when necessary.
If it doesn't work out then it'll be the snugpak rocketpak and I'll have to work out what to do with the two spare side pouches.
Do you think I'm safe to jump in or is my bag old and there's been an upgrade that I can't find?
Thanks for any help and advice in advance.
stuart f
07-03-2007, 12:27
Hi Footzo and welcome aboard. I bought the Web-Tex plce rucksack that had the side pouches with it, but i found that the main sack was to big as i kept filling it up and ended carrying far to much kit ,so i bought the Sabre 45 and took the pouches off the plce and just zipped them onto the Sabre and they fit on no problem. I use this set up all the time and it works a treat.
I don't know if other side pouches are made to a standard spec though. Maybe someone with more knowledge will be able to shed some light on this.
C_Claycomb
07-03-2007, 13:15
I don' t have a definitive answer for you, but I would be fairly confident that 12litre side pockets, if they are PLCE compatible, would fit the Sabre 45. The zippers on the 10L pouches that I have are longer than the pockets themselves, giving the impression that you would have a longer pocket, with the same zip length. The zip mates with the main pack, hence, the main pack should be able to take slightly longer pockets than the 10L ones. If that makes any sense :p
I bought the Sabre 45 and then went and got a used pair of pockets for about
£10 from an army surplus store. I used to have the Rocket Pack and it absolutely killed my back, it having a short back length and my not using web gear.
I have two pairs of PLCE pouches now.
A DPM pair which actually belong to a friend who was in the army (and he wants them back).
And now an Olive Green pair that I bought Grade 1 surplus and have a strange musty smell that washing will not get rid of!
Both these sets fitted my Sabre 45 fine, I think some sellers just give the PLCE pouches different litre capacities, Ive seen 12.5l & 15l and both seem identical.
I'd go for it.
C_Claycomb
07-03-2007, 13:54
The smell will eventually wear off. Best bet is to hang them in the garden for a few weeks, let the weather work on them. That is what I had to do, the smell was pretty off-putting, but it went away eventually.
Dougster
07-03-2007, 14:27
I tried to run a group buy a while ago and have an answer.
PLCE is a standard, if it has PLCE on it they must be compatible with each other. Even if they are a different size, the PLCE side pockets will fit a Sabre (mine did) and vice versa.
Nomad_Of_Soul
07-03-2007, 14:57
I would like to ask a question about the sabre, people seem to highly rate them and i guess their price tag reflects the build quality but when shopping around i get 2 options one being DPM at extra cost, i guess this means damp proof membrane or similar i would like to know what are the benefits of DPM and is it worth the extra cost, should i stick to the standard version if i decide to buy? thanks
Superb stuff - Thank you All.
Looks like I'm safe and away with the cards.
Anyone like to suggest a good source or price I can expect to pay?
Regards again all and many thanks. :D
Silverback
07-03-2007, 15:06
Nomad_of_Soul - It stands for Disruptive Pattern Material (or Camouflage to you and me ;) ) . The difference in price I suspect is therefore due to cost of producing the material pattern.
Footzo - one of the cheapest places I could find is here (http://www.gear-zone.co.uk/eshop/Karrimor-Sabre-45---AW06.html) . I too am contemplating a purchase so if anyone knows of a cheaper site I would also be interested to hear :)
I would like to ask a question about the sabre, people seem to highly rate them and i guess their price tag reflects the build quality but when shopping around i get 2 options one being DPM at extra cost, i guess this means damp proof membrane or similar i would like to know what are the benefits of DPM and is it worth the extra cost, should i stick to the standard version if i decide to buy? thanks
DPM is, I think, Disruptive Pattern Material. Camo.
Good if you want to hide in the woods. Wildlife watching ;)
Nomad_Of_Soul
07-03-2007, 15:18
thanks for replying, now i know, think i'll stick to the cheaper version i can always use leaves and stuff for camo. Great link btw, cheapest yet. :You_Rock_
Silverback
07-03-2007, 16:54
thanks for replying, now i know, think i'll stick to the cheaper version i can always use leaves and stuff for camo. Great link btw, cheapest yet. :You_Rock_In case you hadn't noticed the only colour available from the link is Black as opposed to Olive Green so might be difficult to get matching pouches for :rolleyes:
Nomad_of_Soul - It stands for Disruptive Pattern Material (or Camouflage to you and me ;) ) . The difference in price I suspect is therefore due to cost of producing the material pattern.
Footzo - one of the cheapest places I could find is here (http://www.gear-zone.co.uk/eshop/Karrimor-Sabre-45---AW06.html) . I too am contemplating a purchase so if anyone knows of a cheaper site I would also be interested to hear :)
No thats the best price I could find as well.
Incidentally best price for PLCE pouches is here:
Grade 1 surplus £9.95, they also do a version with a yoke for £19.95:
http://www.surplusandadventure.com/shopscr2215.html
Or these do them new for £34.99 (click link and do a search for PLCE), not sure if thats the best price new though?
http://www.sofmilitary.co.uk/military/index.asp
The Whistler
07-03-2007, 22:44
In case you hadn't noticed the only colour available from the link is Black as opposed to Olive Green so might be difficult to get matching pouches for :rolleyes:
Try this link to gear zone site, it should give a colour option (black or olive) for the Sabre 45 at the same price - although it does say 'special order 14 - 21 day delivery'.
http://www.gear-zone.co.uk/eshop/Karrimor-Sabre-45.html
hope this is useful
Quick tip for you . When buying side pockets (especially the older green ones) it might be best to phone your order through . I did a net transaction and ended up with a pair that zipped together , but the other zips are knacered big time . Had to get them re zipped
Pumbaa
This place do Sabre 45's cheap (£63.75) and there in stock. I know how annoying it can be to wait for a back ordered item only to be told a few weeks later that the shop can't get them in anymore. :banghead:
http://www.aktive8.com/p/Karrimor/Day-Packs/Sabre-45-Rucksack/03-6030.html
I got mine from John Bull, which was more expensive but at the time the above link (Active8) only had the black one in stock.
I didn't have a problem with my PLCE pouches, they were in very good condition, apart from the musty smell, where did you get yours from Pumbaa?
Graham_S
08-03-2007, 14:00
I finally broke down and ordered one.
fortunatly i already own a set of green PLCE pouches.
gregorach
08-03-2007, 15:55
If you're looking for one, or for side pouches, or anything else similar: phone Endicott's (http://www.endicotts.co.uk/)! I got a new Sabre 45 (older model, mk2, I think, in US woodland camo), grade 1 olive side pouches, a grade 1 olive daysack yoke and extender straps, for about £45... ;) :D
Kevin's a top bloke to deal with, and his prices are just inexplicable. :)
No connection, other than as a very satisfied customer.
Hello again all,
I was in conversation with an ex-army guy last night and he's trying to convince me that the sabre45 just isn't big enough - even with the pouches on.
He's suggesting a 'turtle pack' which I can't find a picture of and the only comment on here I can find via the search engine is "don't touch the turtle pack!" :lmao:
So, sorry to impose further but: does anyone know of or have a picture of a sabre 45 actually sitting on someone's back?
Thanks again for you help.
C_Claycomb
09-03-2007, 12:15
Pack size is more about the conditions you expect, the ammount of food you will be packing, and how good you are at packing small. Don't take too many clothes ;)
For instance. Stuart has done much of his travelling with just the two PLCE side pockets fixed to the yoke. When food hasn't been a big issue he has used that pack for months at a time. I
There are bound to be folk here who can tell you about what goes into making military pack loads. Much isn't relevant to civvies, we can get by with less and lighter kit.
Pack size is more about the conditions you expect, the ammount of food you will be packing, and how good you are at packing small. Don't take too many clothes ;)
For instance. Stuart has done much of his travelling with just the two PLCE side pockets fixed to the yoke. When food hasn't been a big issue he has used that pack for months at a time. I
There are bound to be folk here who can tell you about what goes into making military pack loads. Much isn't relevant to civvies, we can get by with less and lighter kit.
I completely agree with you, its unbelievable how much extra crap you take with you on any given army deployment on top of your normal gear - rations, water, spare ammo, mortar base plates, radios, spare radio batteries, radio ancillaries, tool kits etc, etc - you name it. thats why the bergen is so bloody big & have you seen the size of the army issue sleep system.:rolleyes:
I completely agree with you, its unbelievable how much extra crap you take with you on any given army deployment on top of your normal gear - rations, water, spare ammo, mortar base plates, radios, spare radio batteries, radio ancillaries, tool kits etc, etc - you name it. thats why the bergen is so bloody big & have you seen the size of the army issue sleep system.:rolleyes:
That's part of the problem - I have 'that' sleeping bag. :rolleyes:
My Bivvy bag is tiny compared to the issue one. I think I'll ijust ignore him.
I'm pretty sure that even if the bag takes up half the main sack pocket I should be OK.
If all else really fails then I'll add the bag on the outside I guess.
I was just hoping for a bit of confidence before ordering by seeing a pic on someones back - you'd think somewhere on the www I could find one but I'm failing miserabley. (EDIT - I just found a little pic on hawkmoor!)
Thanks again.
I can't get you one of a picture of the pack on my back, as i'm working till late tonight. But heres it lying on my bed, you have some PLCE pouches so it should give you the idea of the size.
http://img148.imageshack.us/img148/3594/dsc01116vn3gm8.th.jpg (http://img148.imageshack.us/my.php?image=dsc01116vn3gm8.jp g)
I definitely think you need to rig your sleeping bag underneath it or on the front of it, if its large and you require more room. I done a few tests wrapping a poncho around the sleeping bag to waterproof it and it seems fine.
http://img100.imageshack.us/img100/4503/dsc01141qp4jl0.th.jpg (http://img100.imageshack.us/my.php?image=dsc01141qp4jl0.jp g)
That's Bang on Zammo - I can live with that (vertical on the front)
I won't always have the bag and/or the side pouches with me and any bigger defeats the object. I could always get a tough vinyl dry bag to effectivly patch the mice holes in the 100l bergen if I ever really needed a huge pack anyway.
Sorry for thinking 'out loud' but it does help!
I can't get you one of a picture of the pack on my back, as i'm working till late tonight. But heres it lying on my bed, you have some PLCE pouches so it should give you the idea of the size.
http://img148.imageshack.us/img148/3594/dsc01116vn3gm8.th.jpg (http://img148.imageshack.us/my.php?image=dsc01116vn3gm8.jp g)
I definitely think you need to rig your sleeping bag underneath it or on the front of it, if its large and you require more room. I done a few tests wrapping a poncho around the sleeping bag to waterproof it and it seems fine.
http://img100.imageshack.us/img100/4503/dsc01141qp4jl0.th.jpg (http://img100.imageshack.us/my.php?image=dsc01141qp4jl0.jp g)
That is rubbish, I am sorry but by taking the sleeping bag out of the compression sack you pack your normal gear in the bottom of your bergen, then put the sleeping bag inside the bivi bag and that will go ontop of the other gear. It will compress trust me, I did it for twelve years in the Army.
your waterproofs and basha kit can go in one side pouch and all your food an cooking gear in the other.
These bergens are big, but I love them for there simplicity and rugged design. If you don't mind carrying alot of gear (like me!) then I would buy one without question.
It all depends if your one of these minimalist people who don't like carrying anything.
The choice at the end of the day is yours.
But please don't pack your sleeping bag like this.
you'll look a right numpty.
Hello again all,
I was in conversation with an ex-army guy last night and he's trying to convince me that the sabre45 just isn't big enough - even with the pouches on.
He's suggesting a 'turtle pack' which I can't find a picture of and the only comment on here I can find via the search engine is "don't touch the turtle pack!" :lmao:
So, sorry to impose further but: does anyone know of or have a picture of a sabre 45 actually sitting on someone's back?
Thanks again for you help.
This ex army guy obviously knows Jack about packing bergens. And the fact that the turtle pack is smaller than the issue bergen shows this!
Just because some guys say thay are ex Forces it doesn't automatically means they know what they are taking about!
So unless you want a nice back injury stay away from the turtle pack, they were brought in to army issue purely for the support arms who don't do alot of marching with kit. alot of guys and girls have been injured using these turtle packs for load carrying!
If your bergen is a military issue 125Lt then you should have plenty of room.
I wish I could show you how easy it is to pack these military bergens.:rolleyes:
I lived out of my bergen on operations for six months at a time and I didn't own any fancy lightweight gear, all I had was issue stuff.
Hi Greg - I have a 125 l bergen (including a couple of mice holes and I could get a car in it. The original idea was to get a smaller, more flexible system. I was asking about a 45l sabre not the 125l bergen which, as I said I could take huge amounts in.
Thanks for the word on the turtle packs. The whole concept as he explained it to me sounded bizarre to say the least. The seed of doubt was fitting the sleep system bag inside the 45 litre Sabre. Zammo's example seems OK to me when carrying the 45l sabre. Obviously if I took my big bergen (including the mice holes ;) ) the bag wouldn't need to be on the outside at all.
Cheers.
I can't get you one of a picture of the pack on my back, as i'm working till late tonight. But heres it lying on my bed, you have some PLCE pouches so it should give you the idea of the size.
http://img148.imageshack.us/img148/3594/dsc01116vn3gm8.th.jpg (http://img148.imageshack.us/my.php?image=dsc01116vn3gm8.jp g)
I definitely think you need to rig your sleeping bag underneath it or on the front of it, if its large and you require more room. I done a few tests wrapping a poncho around the sleeping bag to waterproof it and it seems fine.
http://img100.imageshack.us/img100/4503/dsc01141qp4jl0.th.jpg (http://img100.imageshack.us/my.php?image=dsc01141qp4jl0.jp g)
Ooops sorry Zammo, my apologies I am obviously going blind.
Hi Greg - I have a 125 l bergen (including a couple of mice holes and I could get a car in it. The original idea was to get a smaller, more flexible system. I was asking about a 45l sabre not the 125l bergen which, as I said I could take huge amounts in.
Thanks for the word on the turtle packs. The whole concept as he explained it to me sounded bizarre to say the least. The seed of doubt was fitting the sleep system bag inside the 45 litre Sabre. Zammo's example seems OK to me when carrying the 45l sabre. Obviously if I took my big bergen (including the mice holes ;) ) the bag wouldn't need to be on the outside at all.
Cheers.
Yep your right you will never get a issue bag in a 45Lt patrol pack! Except attaching you bag on the outside and still looking like a numpty:lmao: (Its a pet hate of mine), buy a more compact bag. I have one that I bought in Blacks, it cost me £30 a couple of years ago and is ok to use in all but the coldest weather. and that goes in my daysack with my bivibag and other gear.
C_Claycomb
09-03-2007, 20:21
For the bulk/weight conscious, this is a great site to give you ideas and see what some posibilites are.
http://hikinghq.net/
This has to be the most minamalist pack you can get :lmao:
http://hikinghq.net/gear/moonbow_gearskin.html
I am far from as light a camper as I would like, but looking at the lists and suggestions from the above and similar pages has helped me to pare away a lot of stuff that I don't need for weekend trips. On longer trips I still have too much stuff...carrying food really points out when your base weight is still too high :( :lmao:
Hi All,
Sorry to drag this up again but:
It's nearly pay day and I was about to push the button on the sabre 45 and went mooching around ebay for a yoke and read this:
"Please note. Thes side pockets are for the earlier model olive bergen and the side pocket zips are upside down relative to the later issue bergens."
It's from this item:
http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/PLCE-Olive-twin-side-pockets-yoke-set-complete-n_W0QQitemZ250073107520QQcateg oryZ588QQcmdZViewItem
So - panic has once again set in as my bergen is olive and therefore so are my side packs and now I'm worried that the zips will be upside down in relation to the sabres. :confused:
Looking at the back of my pouches - the zip on the left (male) has no zipper and the bit you'd insert into the female on the pack is on the bottom and therefore, once attached and zipped up, would be at the top of the pouch.
The zip on the right (female) has the zipper and would also receive the male pack zip at the bottom and end up zipped at the top of the pouch.
Does that sound right?
Sorry for the questions but the purchase would be mail order and I don't want to foot the bill of returning it.
RocketPak is looking tastier every day!
Cheers All.
Taking the sleeping bag out of the compression sack you pack your normal gear in the bottom of your bergen, then put the sleeping bag inside the bivi bag and that will go ontop of the other gear. It will compress trust me, I did it for twelve years in the Army.
your waterproofs and basha kit can go in one side pouch and all your food an cooking gear in the other.
yep thats always worked for me (in my Vulcan 2 ) usually had at least one set of cloths in the Bag as well so you can change easy. letting the Doss bag (in bivy bag) fill out the remaining space stops the Loft compressing and is easy to deploy and looks heavy :D :D :D
have several side pockets from the Vulcan and PLCE and Berghus medic pouches all fit the same zips but these are all 12yrs old at least
I like the look of the 45 for a little bergan though and fitting std side pockets :D
my gear slways looks a little lost in the vulcan these days
ATB
Duncan
Hi Footzo,
I have got a Snugpak Rocketpak and think it is a very well made bit of kit but be aware it is a short back as its made to wear with belt order pouches.
You could buy a yolk and use the pouches you have got with it for a day sack and when they wear out you could use the yolk with your Snugpak rockets ;)
I bought my Snugpak Rocketpak and Snugpak yolk from this shop>
http://www.sofmilitary.co.uk/military/select.asp
great price,good service and speedy delivery.
hope this helps :)
Looking at the back of my pouches - the zip on the left (male) has no zipper and the bit you'd insert into the female on the pack is on the bottom and therefore, once attached and zipped up, would be at the top of the pouch.
The zip on the right (female) has the zipper and would also receive the male pack zip at the bottom and end up zipped at the top of the pouch.
Does that sound right?
You are ok - yours will be compatable with the Karrimor Sabre.
Some of the very first prototype bergans/side pouches had their zips configured the other way around but 99% of the olive and dpm bergans/pouches have the correct zip orientation.
I used to have some up-side-down side pouches but it didn't bother me as I owned a matching up-side-down bergan.
Justin Time
22-03-2007, 10:06
.... as I owned a matching up-side-down bergan.
Did it get lighter the further you walked? :D
Hi All,
Sorry to drag this up again but:
It's nearly pay day and I was about to push the button on the sabre 45 and went mooching around ebay for a yoke and read this:
"Please note. Thes side pockets are for the earlier model olive bergen and the side pocket zips are upside down relative to the later issue bergens."
It's from this item:
http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/PLCE-Olive-twin-side-pockets-yoke-set-complete-n_W0QQitemZ250073107520QQcateg oryZ588QQcmdZViewItem
So - panic has once again set in as my bergen is olive and therefore so are my side packs and now I'm worried that the zips will be upside down in relation to the sabres. :confused:
Looking at the back of my pouches - the zip on the left (male) has no zipper and the bit you'd insert into the female on the pack is on the bottom and therefore, once attached and zipped up, would be at the top of the pouch.
The zip on the right (female) has the zipper and would also receive the male pack zip at the bottom and end up zipped at the top of the pouch.
Does that sound right?
Sorry for the questions but the purchase would be mail order and I don't want to foot the bill of returning it.
RocketPak is looking tastier every day!
Cheers All.
Buy from here:
http://www.surplusandadventure.com/shopscr2215.html
Its cheaper, you can ring them if need be and theres no messing about ending up with ones that don't fit.
Did it get lighter the further you walked? :D
Ah ......... I had wondered where my sleeping bag got to :)
On the plus side if I ever got lost I could follow my trail of jettisoned items to find my way back home.
:)
Thanks again All - I promise not to mention it again. :D
Buy from here:
http://www.surplusandadventure.com/shopscr2215.html
Its cheaper, you can ring them if need be and theres no messing about ending up with ones that don't fit.
Although if you do use them I feel duty bound (well actually I'm just still mad at them :rolleyes: ) to point you to this thread
http://www.bushcraftuk.com/community/showthread.php?t=7546&highlight=surplus+adventure
:(
gregorach
22-03-2007, 15:15
[edit] This post was a plug for Endicotts, then I noticed I already plugged 'em once up-thread. Sorry. :o
Sorry to but in, but I just have to say whoever recomends a turtle back is sadly, completely inept or seriously inexperienced, the combat hand bag as it was loveingly refered to when i was serving was suitable for one thing only and that was when full it could be (due to its shape) stowed away nicely somewhere on the wagon.
They are verry bad for your health, do not use them to carry weight over any distance.The army sadly did not think the same and many people have the knees and back of ninety year olds to show for it.
I will now leave you in peace.
Having seen the aforementioned turtle pack I can only agree. I think he had one in the cupboard and wanted to try an sell it to me. He offered it @ 40quid too!
No side pouches - just the pack. It all comes clear when there's cash about eh? :lmao:
Thanks again All (I didn't mention it either did I?)