Canoe plans

[Roving Rich]

Hi folks, I am learning how to paddle a Canadian canoe at the moment, just passed my BCU (British Canoe Union) 2* :-D
Anyway iam looking at building a canoe to practise in. I had a play in a couple of homemade boats last week and was mightily impressed.
I was wondering if any of you had any experience of building them, know of anywhere that can supply plans or any advice on designs, and tips generally...
Cheers
Rich 8-)

[Viking]

http://www.trakanot.se has courses and some info in building wood canoes but it´s in sweden.

Also found this http://www.wcha.org/

[jamesdevine]

Hi Rich,

These guys make kits for self assembly which might be of interest to you.

http://www.woodenboatsuk.com/frameset.html

James

[KIMBOKO]

Try
www.selway-fisher.com/
A British designers catalogue. Excellent designs he also runs a forum to help builders.

[Stew]

I know it's not a Canadian, but how about a Four-hour Kayak (http://www.shelter-systems.com/kayak.html)?
:-D

[Raz]

I was going to say Selway Fisher.

I'm off on sunday paddling a homemade one from them (not made by me)
Did it last year and was great. We used a few different models. The "Prospector" seemed to be the best all rounder of the bunch.

[Carcajou Garou]

There's a store in Canada that sells excellent plans how to build canoes. The store is called Lee Valley Tools LTD email WWW.leevalley.com. Excellent company to deal with.

[alick]

At the OS outdoors show at the NEC in April, there was a large stand in the canoe section that had plans for building wooden canadian canoes, and sold the single ended paddles for these, as well a lots of mainstream canoeing accessories. If anyone still has a show guide it may be possible to identify them. They had one of the largest stands in the area and were located no more than one or two stands from the corner of the "lecture theatre". Unfortunately I have no memory of their name.

Cheers

[Roving Rich]

Thanks for your advice guys
Those swedish canoes look gorgeous. :super:

I think i have narrowed it down to 2, The Prospector from selway fisher - seems to be quite popular and will take 2 people plus camping gear. Or this one :http://www.birchcreek.btinternet.co.u k/malamut.htm
The Malamut based on an Native American Malachite tribe design ?
Anyone come across one ?
I'm going for plywood rather than cedar strip to start with, looks a bit easier.
Cheers
Rich

[KIMBOKO]

Goodluck!

[SquirrelBoy]

Do keep us up to date,

Id love to have my own canoe and if its not too difficult to build one.... might even have a go myself :shock:

[Roving Rich]

Will do, been making a paddle this weekend -its coming along nicely :wink:
rich

[george]

I think i have narrowed it down to 2, The Prospector from selway fisher - seems to be quite popular and will take 2 people plus camping gear. Or this one :http://www.birchcreek.btinternet.co.u k/malamut.htm
The Malamut based on an Native American Malachite tribe design ?
Anyone come across one ?
I'm going for plywood rather than cedar strip to start with, looks a bit easier.
Cheers
Rich

Hi Rich

What kind of water are you mostly going to use the boat on?

Both of the boats you're looking at have got quite a lot of rocker (short waterline length for their overall length with a distinct curve up at bow and stern) which will make them maneuverable but a little more twitchy to paddle on big lakes or on the sea. (especially in stronger winds) The Prospector is a classic and makes a great river tripping boat - but it wouldn't be my first choice for open flat water - it's possible to paddle open water in one but if thats your main intention then there are better boats. If however most of my journeys were going to be on moving water where maneuverability and secondary stability are important then I'd use my Prospector. (mind you mines made of royalex not wood - so I'm not worried about getting it banged up!)

I've never come across the Malamut before but it looks like a very pretty boat - still the high bow and stern and the distinct rocker will make it pretty hard work on open water in any kind of wind.

Having said all that - as your paddling progresses and you get used to your own boat the differences will become less of a problem as you develop skills and techniques to deal with wind and waves - so choose whatever you feel best about!

George

[Roving Rich]

Hi George, I intend to be paddling mainly flat water. I am learning on the Thames and this is probably where it will see most use. I wanted a boat that could take my Girlfriend, myself and some camping gear, so we can have a few adventures. The Prospector seemed to be designed to take some payload, and looked about right to my novice eye. What would you recomend ? I have already recieved the plans for the Prospector so i'll be going ahead with this one.

Cheers
Rich

[george]

Hi Rich

Like I said the Prospector's a great boat and I'm sure you'll have loads of fun in it. If you haven't already, try and get hold of "The path of the paddle" and "The song of the paddle", both by Bill Mason, who was one of the main exponents of the Prospector as a general purpose boat. If I could do half of what he could do in a Prospector then I'd be a good paddler.

However, if I was looking for a good all round canoe with mostly a flatwater bias I'd look for something with similar measurements to a Mad River Horizon 17 http://www.madrivercanoe.com/products/canoes.php?f=Horizon

It will track better (keep a straight line) than a Prospector and will have a faster theoretical hull speed as well, so it will be less tiring to cover long distances in. The differences are pretty much theoretical though untill you begin to refine your technique and can let the boat work as well as it can.

With your own boat you'll get out much more often and as long as you don't let yourself get lazy with learning some of the harder strokes, you'll improve really fast.

Build the Prospector and have a great time. :-D

George

[Roving Rich]

Thanks George, I'll look out for "the path of the paddle" , been wanting a copy for a while now.
I rate mad river canoes generally. I tend to paddle a Mad River Explorer club boat. They have 16' and about a 14' solo (which i gracefully fell out of when poling :roll: ) I'll see if there are any Horizons at the club to have a go.
I also quite like "Bobs Special", though think it might be hard work on a long haul. More of a playboat for white water and fast rivers i reckon.
Maybe we can go for a paddle when i have finished building it ?
Cheers
Rich

[george]

Rich

The explorer 14 is a nice little boat - I'm a big fan of short solo boats, suprising how much kit you can get in to them and still paddle long distances.

Have a look at some of the boats that Nessmuk used to paddle, as short as 9 feet apparently!

I don't know the "Bobs Special" What is it?

Once you've finished the boat if you're ever looking for places to paddle up in the Highlands then I know a few good spots. Be good to meet up out on the water.

George

[Roving Rich]

Did a quick search on bobs special :

http://www.bearmountainboats.com/gallery_Bobs_Spec.htm
and some photos

http://www.bearmountainboats.com/gallery_Bobs_Spec.htm

Rich

[george]

Thanks for the link, Pretty little boat.

Looks like one for exploring blackwater rivers and backwaters. I'd be too scared of damaging a woodstrip boat to take it on anything else.

light too - around 40lbs

What size are you going to build the prospector?

George

[bothyman]

if you're ever looking for places to paddle up in the Highlands then I know a few good spots. Be good to meet up out on the water.

George

I would be interested to know more on this subject??


Sorry about changing the Thread. :sulk:

[rapidboy]

This might be worth a look.
Next door to the Ailwee caves visitor centre in Co.Clare.
The Ballyvaughan wooden boat school.

http://img25.photobucket.com/albums/v76/rapidboy1/368_6871_1.jpg

I visited the cave last year and had a look around the school.
Really great place ,you can spend a weeks holiday building a small boat or canoe under supervision by skilled craftsmen.
Really friendly atmosphere ,when i was there they had a family weekend ,building small boats from plywood.

http://img25.photobucket.com/albums/v76/rapidboy1/368_6870_1.jpg

From 8x4 sheets to the water all in a weekend.

They had hard chine ,wooden strip and GRP canoes all in various stages of construction when i was there as well as some new GRP sea kayak's for sale.
RB

[mr dazzler]

For some inspiring kayaks and canoes why not check harvey golden's site
http://traditionalkayaks.com :wink:

[Simon]

Hi Rich,

How's your canoe coming? ... I work about 50/50 with wood as a scenic carpenter and resins as a mould maker for film, GRP, PU and Epoxies .. any tips, techniques and suppliers you need to know of, let me know

I've had an itch, myself, that I might one day scratch :biggthump

[Simon]

a little bit of research before heading in to the garage has come up with ..

http://www.bateau2.com/free/cheapcanoe.htm

http://www.svensons.com/boat/

http://www.bateau.com/free/freeplans.htm

http://home.clara.net/gmatkin/design.htm

http://www.bigdamfish.net/freeplans.html

:biggthump

[Roving Rich]

Hi Simon (and anyone else who is interested)
The Canoe has kinda ground to a halt at the moment. We Dave (DG the bow drill master and top tracker :notworthy )and I were building them in a barn. But the barn is in use at the moment, so canoes have been relagated to the lambing shed :cry: which is dark and full of spiders....
We could definetly do with some help on the GRP side. The woven roving tape keeps curling up at the edges, and bubbles appear under it as it starts to go off. so it looks a bit of a mess with nasty white patches around the place.
The fillet between the chines was "glued" or filled with epoxy mixed with West systems filler stuff (not colloidal silica but another one) so again more patches under the tape :cry: My first 2 batches went off like Mount Vesouvious, foaming and giving off noxious fumes :yikes: nearly combusted !
Can we use sandings from the wood as a filler instead, as this would be a better colour, or/and can we add stain to the epoxy to blend it into the boat.
I read a bit on BB about making mozaic pins, so know there are ways and means with epoxies...
On the whole the one boat that is nearing completion is looking lovely :-) and both of us can't wait to paddle it.
For the mean time i'll just carry on making me knives :-P
Cheers
Rich

[Simon]

Hi Simon (and anyone else who is interested)
The Canoe has kinda ground to a halt at the moment. We Dave (DG the bow drill master and top tracker :notworthy )and I were building them in a barn. But the barn is in use at the moment, so canoes have been relagated to the lambing shed :cry: which is dark and full of spiders....
We could definetly do with some help on the GRP side. The woven roving tape keeps curling up at the edges, and bubbles appear under it as it starts to go off. so it looks a bit of a mess with nasty white patches around the place.
The fillet between the chines was "glued" or filled with epoxy mixed with West systems filler stuff (not colloidal silica but another one) so again more patches under the tape :cry: My first 2 batches went off like Mount Vesouvious, foaming and giving off noxious fumes :yikes: nearly combusted !
Can we use sandings from the wood as a filler instead, as this would be a better colour, or/and can we add stain to the epoxy to blend it into the boat.
I read a bit on BB about making mozaic pins, so know there are ways and means with epoxies...
On the whole the one boat that is nearing completion is looking lovely :-) and both of us can't wait to paddle it.
For the mean time i'll just carry on making me knives :-P
Cheers
Rich
I take it the mount versuvius was polyester ....... sounds like you way over catalysed it .. polyester is incredibly sensitive to heat and humidity ..... between winter and summer I probably reduce the amount of catalyst by a 3rd or more on average.. I have been fibreglassing outside on a warm summer's day and mixing up 2 kilos of resin and literally 2 or 3 drops of MEKP ... and it was still going off too quickly.

The other thing is that it is very mass dependent when it comes to gel time .. the thicker it is the more exotherm .. the faster it sets .. try to keep the resin moving when you are working .. every time I dip my brush in the bowl I give it a short mix . it helps prolong the working life of the resin

your bubbling . if it is polyester you are getting it with . is down to having your mix too hot .. so reduce the MEKP ... you can do small mixes as tests and note the reactions . so you then have an accurate way to gauge . make it slower than need be and you have plenty of time to work the bubbles out

with epoxy you have a far more accurate "clock" for working time/time to gel.. personally I would use epoxy all the way and keep away from polyester . it's so much easier to work with . get a slow one that gives you lots of time to chase the bubbles out with. I know that the professional glassers for boat building have their work inspected by shining a torch through their laminates to check for air bubbles ..... luckily we don't have to be quite so picky

http://www.wessex-resins.com/ .. good suppliers ... i prefer the Pro Set at the moment

and yes you can add wood dust to epoxy resin to make a filler ..

one of these tools might help

http://www.resin-supplies.co.uk/Rollers.jpg

http://www.resin-supplies.co.uk/rollers.htm

[dtalbot]

a little bit of research before heading in to the garage has come up with ..

http://www.bateau2.com/free/cheapcanoe.htm

http://www.svensons.com/boat/

http://www.bateau.com/free/freeplans.htm

http://home.clara.net/gmatkin/design.htm

http://www.bigdamfish.net/freeplans.html

:biggthump

Oh,
that bateau2 one look within even my limited skills, must try it when I'm no making knives or longbows!
Cheers
David

[mr dazzler]

All right Simon? :wink:
Was just wondereing-supose I wanted to create a canoe or other small boat out of thin ply boards, rather than skin on frame, what would be a good waterproof glue to use?

I was amazed to find "Sampan" means "3 boards", (cos thats basically what they made up of) And how they similar to ancient punt type craft used in this country. :z:

Have you seen the excellent boat museum at Lowestoft; good spot to look at.
You have any experience with skin on frame building?

PS why not check out this superb sequence of photos at
http://www.vietnamboats.org/sewnplankalbum.htm

Mr D :wave:

[Simon]

All right Simon? :wink:
Was just wondereing-supose I wanted to create a canoe or other small boat out of thin ply boards, rather than skin on frame, what would be a good waterproof glue to use?

I was amazed to find "Sampan" means "3 boards", (cos thats basically what they made up of) And how they similar to ancient punt type craft used in this country. :z:

Have you seen the excellent boat museum at Lowestoft; good spot to look at.
You have any experience with skin on frame building?

PS why not check out this superb sequence of photos at
http://www.vietnamboats.org/sewnplankalbum.htm

Mr D :wave:
LOL .. haven't made a boat yet .. so no experience, as such ... although I have made frames of all shapes and sizes for set and scenic stuff .. and a few prop boats .. and a submarine

as to glue . It'd be either a polyurethane or an epoxy .. probably use the epoxy laminating resin, thickened.

[Roving Rich]

Hi Dazzler, that is exactly what iam doing, its called "Stitch and Tape" boat building.
looks like this at the moment :
http://www.bushcraftuk.net/photopost/data/500/152Canoe4chine_-thumb.jpg


I bought a set of plans from Selway Fisher (http://www.selway-fisher.com/Canoes.htm) so i am building a Prospector.

So far its quite straightforward, but takes alot of time ! and we still have quite a way to go, and a second boat to build.

Simon - We are using Epoxy. West systems, with pumps on each bottle (genious whoever thought of that one ) so the mix should always be correct. The volcano effect was when i mixed in the filler stuff

Wish me luck, got my BCU 3* canoeing test tonight :roll:

Rich

[Simon]

Weird ... usually epoxy is very stable :?: and a very low exothermic reaction ..... shouldn't heat up much at all

what's the setting/gelling time on it?

and what was the filler?

[dtalbot]

Not quite skin cover but the guys I keep plugging at the www.greenwoodtrust.org.uk do a coracle making course two or three times a year.
Cheers
David

[mr dazzler]

That looks very good Rich, just from that little picture its got nice form, like a viking boat. I expect it will flex a little when its finished?? :?: Good luck with the completion (and test) :wave:

[dtalbot]

I've had a good look at the CheapCanoe plans from Bateau2, just need to find enough room to build one now!
Cheers
David

[Roving Rich]

Me Dazzler - Yeh we are very pleased with the shape, we cut the sides down a bit, as it resembled a super tanker before. The result is a nice smooth line though.
It is flimsy, it has taken the shape well, but is made of 4mm marine ply, and the bottom sections flex so i need to come up with a cunning plan for reinforcement...

Simon, your help and advice would be greatly appreciated, and you are only a stones throw away :naughty:

Cheeers
Rich

[bothyman]

Anyone building a Selway Fisher canoe may find this group helpful, :wave:

>> http://groups.yahoo.com/group/SFD_builders_sailors

[Simon]

Simon, your help and advice would be greatly appreciated, and you are only a stones throw away :naughty:
Cheeers
Rich
LOL :o):

I'm afraid it won't be any time soon as I am rather busy ... but i am sure I could be persuaded one weekend with a lure of beer ;) .. just not any weekends for the next few weeks though

sounds like you need to fit some ribs in and perhaps a former to stop that flex :?:

[Roving Rich]

Yeh we figured on adding plywood ribs across the bottom 2 planks to stop the flex :o):
Just gotta find the time and a barn....

Rich

[PeterW]

I Started to build this Ultralight (http://www.riverstoneinternet.com/canoebuilding/ultralightcanoe.html) about 12 months ago, then ran over it with my land rover... :cry:

Its on the cards for this winter, when I've got the garage heating sorted out...!!!

Cheers

Peter

[TheViking]

I Started to build this Ultralight (http://www.riverstoneinternet.com/canoebuilding/ultralightcanoe.html) about 12 months ago, then ran over it with my land rover... :cry:
Is it only 3 mm. thick?? When my dad and were paddling in Sweden last year, we had Inka's aluminium canoes... When the big streams came and we sailed over rocks, it sounded like the canoe were being teared apart! :shock: 3 mm. is pretty thin IMO??

[Roving Rich]

Yeah its only really flatwater touring i intend to use mine for and that 4mm.
Think i'd hire a plastic for whitewater.

Rich

[Roving Rich]

Now if i wasn't mid prospector iwould love to build one of these...
http://geodesicairoliteboats.com/

They look fab, gotta be as light as you can go surely

Cheers
Rich

[Tvividr]

........I was wondering if any of you had any experience of building them, know of anywhere that can supply plans or any advice on designs, and tips generally...
Cheers
Rich 8-)
I've got this one and rebuild it several times every year :o):
http://www.mamut.com/homepages/Norway/3/18/gjknives/ngwavumariver2.jpg http://www.mamut.com/homepages/Norway/3/18/gjknives/kurs1.jpg
I'ts the takedown Ally 16,5' DR modell. A brilliant canoe that will take more rough use than any aluminium canoe that I have seen and paddled to this date. It is a bit slower to paddle than a more rigid canoe, but I'd say its the best expedition canoe made to date. For more info look here : www.bergans.no - click on the English version and then choose Ally Canoes.
The best thing is that when taken apart it will fit in a large packsack with carrying strops that you can transport everywhere - on your back, in the trunk of a car, on the train, bus or airplane. Weight is about 20 kg. I have had it with me on the plane to Africa to paddle a couple of rivers there. I still dream about paddling the full length of my dream river, the Zambezi !

[Roving Rich]

Wow They're cool :super:
So you could fly or drive to anywhere, portage to a river and off you go - Fantastic. Nice one Tvividr.
Er just one thing - how much ?

cheers Rich

[Tvividr]

http://www.eian.no/images/ally16-5.bmp


Wow They're cool :super:
So you could fly or drive to anywhere, portage to a river and off you go...
Yep it's very cool, and it only takes about 30 min to put it all together (make that one hour the first few times). Take the bus to somewhere upriver and paddle back home, or take the plane to distant places and paddle the Amazon, the Kavango, Limpopo or the Zambezi :o):


Er just one thing - how much ? cheers Rich
I was one lucky guy !! I was going to canoe a river in Africa back in 97, and asked them for sponsor monies :shock: . I didn't get any monies, but instead they gave me the canoe, repair kits, splash covers etc (in return for piccies from the semi expedition) :biggthump .
I just did a search for shops that have the Ally in stock here in Norway. It retails for Norwegian kroner 11.990,- that's 983,- £ according to www.xe.com

[bothyman]

These are interesting little canoes

>>
>> http://www.pakboats.com/puffin.htm

Knoydart sell them see>> www.knoydart.co.uk