View Full Version : crusader cooking unit & alcohol stove
Gailainne
22-02-2007, 20:53
It looks from the pictures Ive seen there is a cup which presumably is for the hex or gel to sit in. A question for any owners out there, is there room to fit a small alcohol stove in there ? Martyns stove (http://www.britishblades.com/forums/showthread.php?t=5613&highlight=alcohol+stove) , this kinda size, it would make it a lot more versatile.
Cheers
Stephen
I don't know if Martyn's stove will fit in to it. It's pretty small. A trangia burner certainly won't fit in. A normal tea light will, as will a thermonuclear tea light :rolleyes:
Yes they fit diameter wise, if you make them short enough they also fit when the set is packed up togther fr transport.
There is in an past thread on BCUK, which might require a bit of adavanced searching for, about spacing the burner holes to maximise the burn jet efficeincy specifically for the crusader cooker.
Gailainne
22-02-2007, 21:27
Ho Ho thermo nuclear I can't manage but perhaps a tea light sized alcohol stove is a possibility, they are a fair size, its just a question of finding the right components to fit. If any one has a crusader cooking unit could they measure the fuel container, diameter and height
Cheers
Stephen
Glen cheers for that, we obviously posted at the same time, I'll see if I can find it.
Gailainne
22-02-2007, 21:39
Found it, and another Scot to boot :D mini stove (http://www.bushcraftuk.com/community/showthread.php?t=13005&highlight=micro+burner+crusade r)
Cheers
Stephen
This is the one I was thinking of.
http://www.bushcraftuk.com/community/showthread.php?t=15011&highlight=crusader+mini+stove
Think it might be yet another Scot too ;)
Well i got all kinds of stoves that work in them crusader ones alcohol
i got some primus rock on e bay about 2. in long 1 in wide 3/4 thick i stand two on edge pure 1/2 oz. alcohol for burn little on each it boil a cup of water a still have some left i have on a 1/2 alcohol boil 16 oz water
http://i33.photobucket.com/albums/d52/oops62/th_rockstove.jpg (http://i33.photobucket.com/albums/d52/oops62/rockstove.jpg)
this one i cut the primus in half the cups or pots sit on the stone the stone sits in a cover from a shoe polish can plus that what i use to keep then in wrp somethin so they do not move in tin can oh they are soft can cut in half with hack saw or can file to size to sute these two halves with hold 1/2 oz and little more these work good
http://i33.photobucket.com/albums/d52/oops62/th_cupstove1.jpg (http://i33.photobucket.com/albums/d52/oops62/cupstove1.jpg)
gregorach
23-02-2007, 10:59
Found it, and another Scot to boot :D mini stove (http://www.bushcraftuk.com/community/showthread.php?t=13005&highlight=micro+burner+crusade r)
Cheers
Stephen
Cheers mate! :) I've used that stove quite a bit since I made it, and I'm pretty happy with it. You do need to keep an eye on it to make sure it primes properly - if it's cold, the fuel in the top cup usually isn't quite enough. However, there's a bit of space in the crusader fuel well around it, and a bit of overspill into that usually does the job nicely.
For best effect, you want to make a foil windshield that's as tall as the whole cooker / mug stack. Really makes a big difference...
anthonyyy
07-03-2007, 19:30
Is there really a huge difference between using a mini alcohol stove and just pouring meths into the crusader cooker's holder?
Graham_S
07-03-2007, 19:44
there is a massive difference.
the burner gives more heat for less fuel used.
i used a tomato puree/toast toppers sized tin for the base of mine, it's got a flat base so you can make the stove shorter without losing fuel capacity.
use mine all the time love it bottom half toast topers tin top half red bull i even cook noddles and stuff like that in it :cool:
A question to the stove builders out there. Would it be practicable to permanetly fit the top half of a meths stove to the cup in the base of a crusader mug cooker/stand/thingy?
I appreciate you can just make a stove to fit inside the cup but I quite like the idea of a fixed trangia type burner (some thing with a sealed screw on lid). Currently I'm not using the stove at all as I don't care for the jell and I prefer a proper hexi stove when using blocks.
ATB
Tom
gregorach
11-03-2007, 14:56
I suppose you could if you could find or make something the right size. The thing you might want to watch is the height - if you end up with something that sits more than a couple of millimeters above the existing height of the fuel well, you'll have a heck of a job getting the whole stack into a PLCE pouch. Of course, I you don't use a PLCE pouch that's not an issue.
Tombear i sent you a pm i guess you must be sleeping now it can be one i make all kinds of alcohol stoves fo my use i think i can help you
Thanks oops56, reply sent.
gregorach, I'm using a old OG Arktis waterbottle pouch which is comfortably bigger than a issue one. Looking at their on line catalogue they don't make the dead same one anymore but they do do another version in DPM only. Does anyone else know if this is equally generously sized?
ATB
Tom
PS
Talking of jell powered stoves I have a UK issue/trials three piece job that consists of a base bowl, a chimney tower and a long thin pot that fits down the chimney. It came with a couple of squeeze tubes of paste/jell.
Graham_S
12-03-2007, 12:22
if you permanently fit the top of a meths stove to the fuel cup of a crusader cooker you may run into problems lighting the stove.
most of the "photon" style stoves that get made from red bull cans etc need to be primed before they will work properly.
this involves pouring a little meths ontop of/around the base of the stove. this heats up the stove and vapourises the fuel so that the stove uses burning meths vapour, not the liquid fuel.
another point to ponder, if you don't permanently fit the burner unit, you can still use hexi blocks if you need to.
this makes the stove more effective and fuel efficient.
Ahhh! fair enough, I'm with you now.
What I was after was the conveniance of a trangia burner in the crusader stove/wind shield. Sounds like it's a no go then.
I'll stick with my click-stand + bent bit of wire for the crusader mug then.
Thanks for the advice :-{D)
Tom
Graham_S
12-03-2007, 13:15
it's still a go, i use the photon stove in my crusader burner and it boils water faster than the clickstand.
i usually carry both.
it simplifys the logistics of cooking.
The on one the left is made with a altoids can the burner on the right is a small shoe polish can with fiberglass in insulation put a window screen on top fiberglass hole in cover put all together the altioids pot legs come off and it all fits in can burner also the esbit one the stove will fit in it and will close the altoids pot stands turn in for small pots or cups turn out for big ones gee i hope i got this all said right oh a 1/2 oz. fuel will burn about 6 min. and boil 20 oz. water p s they both use the small shoe polish burner the will burne hold 3/4 oz. all most 1. oz
http://i33.photobucket.com/albums/d52/oops62/th_altoids2.jpg (http://i33.photobucket.com/albums/d52/oops62/altoids2.jpg)
bikething
13-03-2007, 00:59
Graham,
I made a small photon for my crusader but canot get the meths to light in the fuel cup around the burner. I think it's lack of oxygen in the narrow 'trough'. Any thoughts on that?
for size info, my photon is made with a toast toppers / mini coke can and is about 25mm high.
A picture would help on that photon ok try this click on picture to make bigger als put a cover under it put some alcohol you may not be priming long enough
http://i33.photobucket.com/albums/d52/oops62/th_photon.gif (http://i33.photobucket.com/albums/d52/oops62/photon.gif)
Graham,
I made a small photon for my crusader but canot get the meths to light in the fuel cup around the burner. I think it's lack of oxygen in the narrow 'trough'. Any thoughts on that?
for size info, my photon is made with a toast toppers / mini coke can and is about 25mm high.
Not had that problem myself, toast toppers / redbull can but designed in such a way that there's some alcohol that sits ontop of the stove. Blowing very gently across the top and lighting from the side or back might cure it, being very carefull of invisible flames, as that should get a more few fumes to rise from the trough into more oxygenated air.
ok i made lots of stoves that type needs a priming pan on bottom the prime from top is not long enough to make the alcohol boil just like water you dont boil it from top boil from the bottom
ok i made lots of stoves that type needs a priming pan on bottom the prime from top is not long enough to make the alcohol boil just like water you dont boil it from top boil from the bottom
Sorry, I wasn't very clear, In my case I have a little ontop as well as that around the side.
Though to take your analogy, to heat water evenly heat it from underneath, if you just want to get a little water vapour fast you can heat it from near the top at one side you can get a small section to boil without hardly raising the temperature of the rest of the water,
I don't think it's actually priming from underneath as such, I figured it actually heats the internal alcohol from the sides, top down.
Some of the faster priming ( and burning ) minibull design stoves have a bolt or stud to conduct heat down from the flame directly into the alcohol. Also very little of the stove actually touches the priming pan, just the outer rim.
Also the priming vapour is burning above the level of the well in the crusader burner, whereas with a priming pan it can burn right down to the pans surface.
In a reduced airflow situation, like there is between the ministove wall and the crusader well, having a little ontop alight helps keep an airflow going, the moving hotter air creates a lower presure, air from outside is drawn in which then scoops up vapour from the sides into the flow, the centre alcohol also keeps a flame burning that relights the side vapour as it rises if it's gone out. In my case in the top of the burner I've got 4 jets that are well inside the inner ring of the burner, so it also lights any vapour coming out of those long before that vapour could travel to the outer sides of the well, they might be having more of an effect during the priming than I previously thought.
ok one more thing how does the stove burn by itself just sitting on a bench northing over it not in the crusader cup burner its now all most 3 a.m. here i do a 2 or 3 test burns on mine see whats whats in the morning
ok one more thing how does the stove burn by itself just sitting on a bench northing over it not in the crusader cup burner its now all most 3 a.m. here i do a 2 or 3 test burns on mine see whats whats in the morning
Burns about as well as any other I've made of that type that I've also made that short, ie pretty much as well as a full height one, with the same amount of fuel, but a more difficult prime. In that situation having the extra ontop doesn't make very much difference but as I designed it that way for an easy fill ( the alcohol pours through the inner 4 holes and air vents out the jets in the outer rim ) I don't bother mopping it out or messing with trying to pour it into the priming pan that I use when in open air configuration. It's just that I've found in the crusader config it helps with what is a slightly more dificult prime.
It was noticing the slightly taller stoves prime better that made me start looking at how the priming happpens.
What seems to be happening (in an open air situation ) the fumes evaporate off the alcohol on the priming pan and burn a few mm off of the surface of the pan. This produces the heat which is hotter slightly higher up than very low down. The stove wall conducts the heat from the part that's in the hotter part of the flame down and transfers that heat to the alcohol inside Best way I've devised to show this is to put a stove filled with water on the priming pan and then treat it to a very short faux priming. Blow the priming flame out and pick up the stove with pliers, I've found that, to the touch, the top and top of the sides is hotter than the bottom and bottom of the sides. ( Wouldn't it be nice to have the outside wall made from a coulour changing temperature sensitive material ) The biggest temperature gradient seems to be at the fill level ( try it with different ammounts of water in ) That suggest that the initial interal alcohol evaporation would be coming from the top layer next to the outer sides ( things are different if you've got an Trangia type internal burner in which case I'd expect it to come from the top layer of the internal sides )
When used in the crusader cooker the shorter stove is only a few mm taller than the well and about 5-7mm smaller in radius. That only gives a small area ( a donut shape ) from which the initail priming fumes can evaporate and start the heating. As it's a shorter stove the the heat from the centre prime contributes ( proptionally ) more to the overall effect than it does with a open air config with a taller stove and priming pan, where it contributes only very little.
There probably be sweet spot where ( for open air priming ) the height of the stove will be best withing certain limits, but for use in the crusader, the stove has to be shorter than normal to fit nicely together in transport, hence why making them with a flat bottomed tin, to keep overall internal volume up.
It's occured to me, while typing this, that one way to get it to prime quicker would be to have 2 pieces of wire looped into 4 jet holes sticking up into the priming flames, conducting more of the heat straight down into the alcohol, hmm something else to play with ;)
Hear is mine 3 Penney stoves all diff number holes on got two rolls of holes the pink is a small alum. hair spray can cut down then the Jeffy heat and a trangia the one on the left needs two rods to hold cup so it don't block the holes them holes with v cut is to let the flame come a little bit or it will not burn right the one one the right the punch on wrong side but still can be used with a diff. pot set up ps you need them holes at the top to get a good up draft to big holes on the back side are to low for a alcohol stove them holes makes a down draft with alcohol stove with the hex esbit tox they are above the fuel so you get a up draft with these tabs
http://i33.photobucket.com/albums/d52/oops62/th_crusstove.jpg (http://i33.photobucket.com/albums/d52/oops62/crusstove.jpg)
just found this as I am finding the gel not so great. It may just do the trick
http://backpackinglight.co.uk/product129.asp
British Red
15-03-2007, 21:47
There was a fairly large buy on those run by outdoorcode. IIRC feedback wasn't very positive
Agree on the "fire snot" though - utter rubbish!
Red
Graham_S
15-03-2007, 22:05
i tried out a triad stove and compared it to a photon stove.
photon is cheaper, lighter, and boils water faster.
the triad stove had a nasty habit of flaring up dangerously if it's nudged while cooking.
i didn't rate it at all.