View Full Version : potassium permanganate
just wondering who keeps this in a first aid kit.I do and also the first aid kit for all my animals.some facts about it that could be usefull.
KMnO4 is often included in survival kits along with either glycerine or a glucose tablet for the purposes of making fire. The glucose tablet can be ground up, mixed with the potassium permanganate and caused to combust by applying friction. It can also be mixed with anti-freeze from a vehicle to produce flame, although this can be dangerous and should be done in a controlled manner ie dipping some paper into the anti-freeze and then adding a small amount of potassium permanganate. The ability to sterilise water and wounds is another reason for inclusion in a survival kit
ArkAngel
20-02-2007, 14:41
I have some crystals in my emergency baccy tin
I have the liquid in my FAK as i can't find a local source for the crystals.
Good stuff, firelighting, makes water safer to drink, antiseptic wash. The sort of thing i love for bushcraft, 1 item....multiple uses :D
Scuba Pete
20-02-2007, 14:55
If you have the liquid just evaporate off the water to get the crystals. Put it in a shallow dish and let the water evaporate, you will have crystals in no time. Although probably not many, lol.
I've read about it in Lofty Wiseman's SAS "Bible" but I've never actually seen the stuff, nor do I know where to get it. If I could find it in town, I'd definately put a bit of it in my pocket survival kit.
Adam
anthonyyy
20-02-2007, 17:09
KMnO4 has some illegal uses, I'd immagine it might be hard to get nowadays.
I have so far tried 3 chemists and all have said they are no long able to get PP. :(
Gailainne
20-02-2007, 17:38
Potassium Permanganate (http://www.pharmacy2u.co.uk/details.asp?productid=POP25&source=Google_PPC_Quba&kwd=potassium+permanganate&affiliateid=81866680101062&DCSJumpGUID=FEWS3_DCS_Jump_fcf e0f98-ae10-4afb-8e2d-4b7484cb1949&_$ja=tsid:723|ckid:FEWS3_DCS_J ump_fcfe0f98-ae10-4afb-8e2d-4b7484cb1949)
Hyperdrug sell it by 0.5kg :eek: first two googled
Stephen
KMnO4 has some illegal uses, I'd immagine it might be hard to get nowadays.
We use to make a very c**p contact explosive out of it at school. You'd put it between the pages of someones book and, when they closed it, there would be a 'bang' and a big brown stain. Oh, we were so funny...
deezee_uk
20-02-2007, 20:35
I tend to stick to normal (tablet) water sterilisation methods, just because you don't have to muck about with measuring the stuff out. I use a firestick, or lord forbid, a lighter !!!!
Hey lets not forget its more exciting uses, such as when combined with poorly combusted natural gas by product (formaldehyde), it makes a gas that irritats the respiratory system (tear gas)
Ahhh Wikpedia
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Potassium_permanganate
I should have looked further but by the way the chemist`s sucked air in when i asked i thaught i wouldent bother....
SuperDrug ????? who whouild of believed it thanks ;)
fred gordon
20-02-2007, 21:29
KMnO4 has some illegal uses, I'd immagine it might be hard to get nowadays.
I got some recently from one of the guys on a forest school course. He said you have to go to the larger, possibly industrial chemists, for it. Also try laboratory chemical suppliers. :)
well the best use for it is to treat an open wound :lmao: but the versatility of it is cool :cool: :lmao:
I got some recently from one of the guys on a forest school course. He said you have to go to the larger, possibly industrial chemists, for it. Also try laboratory chemical suppliers. :)
or some vets
mark wood
20-02-2007, 21:35
Good old SWAT magazine in the eighties had an article from a chemist discussing the sterilising properties of PP. It's very unreliable - much organic stuff in the water and seems pretty useless.
Mark
Good old SWAT magazine in the eighties had an article from a chemist discussing the sterilising properties of PP. It's very unreliable - much organic stuff in the water and seems pretty useless.
Mark
Good point, though garden suppliers sell it for sterilising water butts :confused: mine's full of things, including newts :D
Pot. perm. is also incredibly messy, probably why it's sometimes recommended for writing sos in snow.
cheers,
Toddy
fred gordon
20-02-2007, 22:02
I remember going to a party a few years ago and some person under the influence put some PP into the cystern of the loo. Some poor person let out a scream when she flushed the loo as she thought she was part of some Physco drama. :lmao:
if you grind it with sugar it makes a flame...also if you pour anti-freeze on it
Spacemonkey
21-02-2007, 01:07
Hey lets not forget its more exciting uses, such as when combined with poorly combusted natural gas by product (formaldehyde), it makes a gas that irritats the respiratory system (tear gas)
Ahhh Wikpedia
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Potassium_permanganate
Working with formaldehyde every day I can assure you that you don't need to add anything to it to make you cry and have breathing difficulties! :)
Scuba Pete
21-02-2007, 10:14
It does stain your hands if you are not careful. Even the smallest crystal can turn alot of water deep purple. Great colour.
We make chlorine gas with it, by adding concentrated Hydrochloric acid to it. So becareful what you are mixing it with, you don't want to poison yourself.
fred gordon
21-02-2007, 19:07
It does stain your hands if you are not careful. Even the smallest crystal can turn alot of water deep purple. Great colour.
We make chlorine gas with it, by adding concentrated Hydrochloric acid to it. So becareful what you are mixing it with, you don't want to poison yourself.
Lets be a bit careful about what we post here. We don't want this site to attract 'unwelcome' attention :rolleyes:
w00dsmoke
21-02-2007, 19:23
if you grind it with sugar it makes a flame...also if you pour anti-freeze on it
Not the stuff I bought...I've tried it several times without success.
I don't know if they have added anything to it these days but I've tried from different suppliers and it does not work for me.
Glycerine... nope
Sugar and pressure ...nope
Anyone got any other experiences or advice on this?
Not the stuff I bought...I've tried it several times without success.
I don't know if they have added anything to it these days but I've tried from different suppliers and it does not work for me.
Glycerine... nope
Sugar and pressure ...nope
Anyone got any other experiences or advice on this?
There are a couple of different types of PP, they are the same chemically(IIRC) but you get stuff that is powdered or free flow which is bigger bits, therefore less surface area,therefore takes longer to combust.
I have not had success with sugar and grinding with a rock, but generally have success with anti freeze and PP. You need newspaper, copier/computer paper doesn't work as well :rolleyes: . It needs to be the right anti freeze, glycerol, I find it best to tip the anti freeze onto the paper, it seems to absorb the water out of the glycerol this way. then tip the PP into a small pool of antifreeze, wrap it up and leave it, it can take longer than you expect to combust. It will smoke and fizzle and if you have it right it will suddnely burst into flame, if you use too much antifreeze it seems to expend its energy turning the water in the antifreeze into steam and not getting quite hot enough. If you poke it with a stick, not your fingers!, it can sometimes kick it into action, but be careful it can take you by surprise!
I haven't used glycerine myself but the technique I have seen is similar.
deezee_uk
21-02-2007, 21:42
LOL the trouble you guys go to to save carrying a lighter and a plaster. I don't want to pee on the proverbial bomfire, but i'm pretty sure you guys don't carry antifreeze into the forests etc with you, but does anyone keep neat antifreeze in thier vehicle. to use with PP.
I'm assuming the antifreeze in your cars cooling system is too diluted to be of any use? or would it just take longer?
Not the stuff I bought...I've tried it several times without success.
I don't know if they have added anything to it these days but I've tried from different suppliers and it does not work for me.
Glycerine... nope
Sugar and pressure ...nope
Anyone got any other experiences or advice on this?
ok...thas a lil weird :confused: I bought mine a while back though, so that may explain somthing.
I wasnt serious about the anti-freeze thing btw, it works very well dont get me wrong, but a pretty uselss fact in the field of bushcraft.
I have got it to work with diluted anti freeze but it takes a lot of PP and results are sketchy. And yes its more of a party trick than a proper bushcraft skill, it is more of a facination with fire and novelty for me!
Singeblister
25-02-2007, 20:41
Isn't it used in dye as well , I seem to remember it being in the ingredient list of a copper patina as well but cant be sure
Woodsmoke - Prompted by your comments, I dug out my little plastic bag with PP in it that I've had in a survival tin for years, mixed it with a bit of sugar, put it on a rock and scraped it with a knife next to some cotton wool. Whilst it wasn't spectacular, it did actually work. So yeah - maybe there are slightly different properties depending on manufacturer. Any chemists out there?
Anyway, I'm off to see what happens when you fire a schmooly into some tinder. :eek:
bluemountaingunworks
26-02-2007, 15:32
Potassium Permanganate is used here in the U.S. as a fire management tool in the form of PSD's, or Plastic Sphere Dispensers. These are nothing more than little ping-pong ball filled with a specified amount of PP that are distributed by a specialized machine mounted in the door of a helicopter. The machine operates by inserting a syringe of ethlyene glycol, or common anti-freeze, into the ball and a premeasured amount is injected. The reaction is as others have mentioned and the balls are released from the helicopter to land on the ground and start fires. We used these aerial ignition platforms to achieve all sorts of objective rolls. I participated in their use several times while fighting fire with the U.S. Forest Service. For example some terrain is too difficult and dangerous to send in firefighters on the ground, so the PSD is used to ignite backfires and conduct burnout operations. They are also extremely effective at covering huge expanses of ground when conducting prescribed burns in an effort to reduce hazardous fuels accumulation. We also played around them and discovered that a small amount of Mountain Dew soda will achieve a similar reaction. Take care and God Bless! Jerry