View Full Version : ONE BIG PUZZLE....
When i went camping this last weekend we went to the usk resevoir. When i was walking along the banks of the resevoir it was full with mating frogs, frogspawn and something more sinister...
There were dozens (they were everywhere) of half frogs. They looked like they had just excreted a football, their insides were all trailing along behind them, and there was a big gaping whole in their rear.
This is my theory...when the females spawn, all the eggs come out and she dies because the spawn has rips her apart. It doesnt matter that she dies because she has fulfilled her purpose. It completely puzzled me
Can anyone enlighten me??
Cheers,
Jake
Afraid I don't have a clue on what this might be. But I don't believe there is a species of frog (or toad) where the female has only one reproductive cycle as you suggest.
Thats what puzzled me, but they had all been killed in exactly the same way...and there was a lot of big mounds of spawn that looked a bit big for a little frog!
I heard a report on the radio a group of kids were being prosecuted for blowing up frogs somewhere - maybe it was there!
Maybe it was more sinister?!?!?! I dont believe female frogs die laying eggs.
Hope you never drank the water :twisted:
Gary....that could be it, but i cant imagine a bunch of kids walking that far for a bit of mischief. But who knows....
I tried to look it up in a zoology book, but it didnt give me any information...
I saw one very odd one (i actually thought it was a frog feotus [before i realise that would be impossible] :oops: )
Jake
Roving Rich
29-04-2004, 10:30
No, I think they get picked off by birds while "mid sporn" so to speak and the only bit worth eating is the hind legs.
Cheers
Rich
I think that sounds the most likley explanation
MartiniDave
29-04-2004, 12:29
Hey Rich,
Like the sig, but where did you ever get the idea for it? :wink:
Dave
Roving Rich
29-04-2004, 14:16
:wink: :nana: :rolmao:
What with all this avatar stuff going on, and i hadn't even got round to putting a signature on ! (cos i couldn't think of anything smart and original or Welsh)
Cheers
Rich
I would have thought if it was predators then the injuries would have been more varied.
I do know frog spawn expands quite dramatically once it touches water ... so maybe the frogs all had some kind of deformity and ... :yikes: well, doesn't bare thinking about really!
:shock:
I would have thought if it was predators then the injuries would have been more varied.
Dunno Kath, if there's plenty of food available, they may just be picking the choice cuts. Ever notice how a well fed cat will usually only eat the heads off mice? It may be that the predator has found the guts 'n head of the frogs to be less than savory.
Dunno Kath, if there's plenty of food available, they may just be picking the choice cuts. Ever notice how a well fed cat will usually only eat the heads off mice? It may be that the predator has found the guts 'n head of the frogs to be less than savory.Good point!
Of course we may never know ...
Jake, I did find a form online where you can report unusual amphibian deaths ... http://www.froglife.fsnet.co.uk/FMPform.doc
Kath, i'll fill it in. Im not sure of the bird explaination, there were probably aver a hundred of them dotted about averywhere we went....
Very odd.
(cos i couldn't think of anything smart and original or Welsh)
How about in welsh...Fy nghar arall i yn beic...(my other car is a bicycle).
Was there a gang of hungry Frenchmen in the area? :-D :yikes:
the naughty boy
29-04-2004, 18:45
i came across the same thing except it was rabbits...in a nature reserve.there were quite a few rabbits with their rear ends ripped apart.but it turned out to be naughty boys [not me] with lurchers .they grabbed the rabbits after a chase and just shook them v.violently making a bloody mess of the rear end.
not as my older brother thought.....bionic farts.
perhaps they were bionic frogs jakey boy :wink:
ducks eat frogspawn dont they...seem like a prime candidate here.
Have a look at this report from Aberdeen. Similar thing?
http://www.thisisnorthscotland.co.uk/displayNode.jsp?nodeId=84106&c ommand=displayContent&sourceNo de=83936&contentPK=9589418
George
It could be, but i remember there being legs on alot of them. It was odd, i whole load of spawn and then the frogs entrails. :shock:
not as my older brother thought.....bionic farts.
perhaps they were bionic frogs jakey boy
Thats what i thought, but then i thought if i say that in my present company i would have been mocked!
There must have been helluva lot of hungry frenchmen...but they missed the legs.
Justin Time
29-04-2004, 23:42
My first thoughts were that it's a bit late for spawning for both frogs and toads.
I checked in " Animal Tracks and Signs" and it notes that
"the polecat is a keen hunter of amphibians, and at it's feeding sites in damp areas and lakeshores you can find remains of frogs and toads. Toad's heads are often left behind - probably because they contain large poison glands - and as they are killed with a ite to the head, the marks of the polecat's teeth can be seen on it"
Mid-Wales is one of the UK strongholds of Polecats so that's a possibility although the descriptin above doesn't sound quite like yours. Could you tell whether the spawn was fresh or developing and was it frog or toad? It could ofc ource be con-indicental that the frogs/toads were in the water where their spawn was, spawning could have happened some time ago. Explosive spawning is not a likelihood I think :roll:
What is a polecat? I always thought they were North American...
There was alot of undeveloped spawn and alot of mating frogs (i think). And of course alot of these maimed frogs.
I dont think it was due to a polecat.
Cheers,
Jake
Polecat is basicaly a ferret
What is a polecat? I always thought they were North American...
I think they belong to the weasel or stoat family.
EDIT/
ahhh, google:
Mustelids are mammals that belong to the weasel family. Mustelids include 65 species (and 25 genera) of weasels, badgers, ferrets, fishers, grisons, martens, otters, polecats, stoats, minks, tayras, wolverines, and more. The earliest mustelids appeared during the early Oligocene Epoch, roughly 35 million years ago.
some pics & info...
http://www.cheshire-biodiversity.org.uk/mammal-polecat.htm
According to the above link, they're a native British species.
Keith_Beef
30-04-2004, 15:56
What is a polecat? I always thought they were North American...
I think they belong to the weasel or stoat family.
And you know how to tell the difference between weasels and stoats, don't you Martyn?
Keith.
What is a polecat? I always thought they were North American...
I think they belong to the weasel or stoat family.
And you know how to tell the difference between weasels and stoats, don't you Martyn?
Keith.
One is weasily recognizable whilst the other one is stoatally different!! :lol:
Polecat is basicaly a ferret
"Polecat" is used for skunks in southern U.S. (like "buffalo" for bison).
The true Polecat, Mustela putorius, a weasel-like critter, is native to northern Europe and mountains of northern Africa. Don't know if they are found in UK.
Pretty spooky tale. :shock:
bushwacker bob
01-05-2004, 02:13
my avatar is a polecat! They are a dark furred version of a ferret
my avatar is a polecat! They are a dark furred version of a ferret
And longer fur as well!
Keith_Beef
28-04-2005, 13:56
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/europe/4486247.stm
Keith.
:O
Wierd...it was kinda like that!
Cheers Keith.
There were dozens (they were everywhere) of half frogs. They looked like they had just excreted a football, their insides were all trailing along behind them, and there was a big gaping whole in their rear.
Jake
Jake,
I read in the newspapers today that the same happened to frogs in Germany!
A free translation of the newspaper article (dutch) in english:
Berlin - German scientists still don't have a clue why the last weeks so many frogs exploded in a pond in Hamburg. They performed several tests on the water and the frogs limbs without any result.
The frogs swell enormously, untill their stomach can't stand it any longer and they explode. The animals suffer a few minutes before they die. Several scientific theories have proven to be false.
Very scary ... exploding frogs (toads in the original article) ... :eek:
Glad we aren't frogs .... ;) :D
Don't we've got an amphibious expert in the BCUK house?
EDIT:
1) Must read more carefull the replies in future... missed Keith Beef's reply with link :rolleyes:
2) Note that it's the same time of year (april 2004 versus 2005) ... :confused: :eek:
:D Cheers Johan....
It certainly was wierd. Unfortunatly i can't tell the sex of them. If i knew it was male frogs i could rule out spawning.
Thanks mate...
maximus otter
29-04-2005, 12:57
From the Guardian, almost exactly one year ago:
"When more than 100 frogs and toads were discovered with their hind legs ripped off on a Scottish estate it seemed a clear case of animal cruelty, prompting fears of a black market in the French delicacy.
A police investigation was launched and the public warned that eating the legs could make them sick. The mass mutilation was found at a pond on the Monymusk estate in Aberdeenshire.
But detective work by the local wildlife crime officer has found that the most likely culprit does have a taste for frogs' legs but cannot be prosecuted because it is an otter.
"Initially we were looking at a potential act of cruelty," said PC David MacKinnon of Grampian police.
"We thought maybe some kids had gone out there and were mucking about."
But as reports came in of other similar incidents at other ponds in the area which are known otter habitats, PC MacKinnon contacted experts who confirmed that otters were likely to have been responsible.
About 115 mature toads and frogs had been found by an estate worker in a pond on the Monymusk estate earlier in the week, some on the bank and some in the water.
All had their rear legs ripped off. "Apparently it is not uncommon for otters to remove the back legs of toads," said PC MacKinnon.
"Toads have poisonous glands in their skin so they will remove the leg to eat or will skin the toad. They can eat up to 1.5kg [3.3lb] a day," he said.
"It is a choice time of year for toads. They go to certain ponds for breeding.
"It is just opportunistic feeding by the otter. It is not overly common for these mass killings to happen. It would just be a feeding frenzy. They would gorge themselves.
"It is a natural thing," he added. "The otter is just going about its business."
http://www.guardian.co.uk/uk_news/story/0,3604,1191319,00.html
maximus "no relation" otter
Coulda been. Except that the Legs were still attached :o
Cheers M O...
[QUOTE=Ahjno]Jake,
I read in the newspapers today that the same happened to frogs in Germany!
A free translation of the newspaper article (dutch) in english:
[I]Berlin - German scientists still don't have a clue why the last weeks so many frogs exploded in a pond in Hamburg. They performed several tests on the water and the frogs limbs without any result.
The frogs swell enormously, untill their stomach can't stand it any longer and they explode. The animals suffer a few minutes before they die. Several scientific theories have proven to be false.
Hi guys, interesting link,
I read an article in a dutch magazine ("bionieuws", which is aimed at biologists) about the Hamburg toads. A german "specialist" who examined some of the dead toads noticed that all of them had their liver missing. His theory was that an avian predator, probably crows, had learned to pierce a hole in the skin to get to the choiciest bit of flesh, the liver (remember the toad's skin is also poisonous). The now "de-livered" toad tries his usual defense mechanism to frighten off predators which is pumping up his bodysize by swallowing air in his lungs, but, as there is now a hole in it's back, there is nothing to tell the poor thing that it has swallowed enough air to stop. The animal will therefore keep on taking more air in untill it blows itself to smithereens...
According to the article this is still a theory because there were no actual sight records of anything attacking the toads but -although intricate- it sounds like a plausible explanation to me.
Ahh...That does sound plausible. Very interesting!
Thanks mate...