View Full Version : Leather dying question
Grooveski
02-05-2006, 18:08
Cut up some leather at the weekend and am nearly ready to start putting it together. Wasn't sure about finishing order though.
Thought I'd tidy up the edges then dye the lot, then wet it down to form it into shape while stitching, then let it dry and brush in some wax.
Is it ok to dye things before soaking them(normal fiebings dye) and if so how long should I leave it to dry before doing so?
I realise that this info might be in the dye instructions but I had a minor spillage and both the box and booklet are trashed :rolleyes:. Advice would be appreciated.
http://i69.photobucket.com/albums/i68/Grooveski/Gubbins/Q1_01.jpg
twelveboar
02-05-2006, 18:31
Hi Groovski, if you are using Fiebings oil dye, I'd wet form it first, as I think the dye will make it water resistant to a degree, and it may not take up water evenly. I did a sheath at the weekend and wet formed it first and it has turned out fine, with a nice even finish.
beachlover
02-05-2006, 18:51
I just made a knife sheath and the order I followed (and which worked) was:
Stitch, wet, dye and form and then brush with melted 50/50 beeswax and neatsfoot, before heatgunning it (carefully!) and finishing off the moulding and leaving it to cool.
I am sure someone who has more experience than me will be along soon to correct me tho :rolleyes:
Grooveski
02-05-2006, 19:27
Neetsfoot? That's a new one on me :). I know folk mix wax and oil for wood finishes, do you just add oil to molten wax and stir in? I have some danish oil here I meant to play chemistry set with at some point.
I wet-formed-dried-dyed my sheath, but done a pretty pants job of the dying. This's a fair bit bigger and I figured I might get a more even application if I laid it out flat and used a cloth or sponge, then stuck it together. Probably would have to tidy up edges afterwards but they could be redyed with a brush.
I've dyed a couple of test pieces to have a play with.
Grooveski
02-05-2006, 21:03
Twelveboar.
The bit of the box that's still legible reads caution:flammable - so it'll be oil based, cheers ;) ! I'll....
....I dunno, faff around some and then just get on with it. :)
Feibings dye hits bone dry leather really fast and so can cause it to be a little blotchy. My advice is wet it, basically shape it, and then dye it whilst it is still really quite wet. The water in the leather will help slow down and even out the absorbtion of the dye. Let it air dry overnight until it is touch dry on both sides before you start stitching or you run the risk of marking (permanently) the soft wet leather surface. This technique is good for waterbaed dyes a well. A good cheap alternitave finish for leather is briwax clear furniture polish, its a spirit based beeswax polish that will give a very resilient waterproof finish - easy to reapply, and a tin will last you for years unless SWMBO swipes it for the table.
Post some pics of the finished job wont you.
Nick
Grooveski
03-05-2006, 12:54
OK, I like it. Sounds like a plan. Cheers Nick. :)
I've got a big pile of wax that I should really should do something with so final treatment is covered. Wouldn't have thought of dying while wet though, funky tip. Blotchy is indeed how my first dye attempt turned out.
jdlenton
03-05-2006, 13:14
the way i doo my pouches is
wet form over mould and dry thoroughly,
sew together,
dye with fiebings oil dye I agree that doing this with a damp leather surface gives better results and dry thoroughly
burnish and finish edges,
apply a few thin coats of neatsfoot oil every day for three days.
then finish with a coat of fiebings leather balm with atom wax I've only just started using this and i think its great i used to just buff the finished item with neutral cherry blossom but the atom wax takes out a load of elbow grease.
James
twelveboar
03-05-2006, 17:21
Well folks we seem to have a consensus, as I should have said I applied the dye while my sheath was still a bit damp from the wet forming.
beachlover
03-05-2006, 17:36
the way i doo my pouches is
wet form over mould and dry thoroughly,
sew together,
James
Do you use the knife as the mould and could you explain a bit more about way you do this before sewing the leather?
Probably me but I just can't quite visualise the process. :confused:
twelveboar
03-05-2006, 18:39
Beachlover, yes you can use the knife, but you should grease the blade and wrap it in clingfilm and foil especially if it is a carbon blade. Some people make a "model" knife to form round out of wood or something to avoid the risk of corroding the blade, worth it if you will be making a few sheaths, but if it's a one off try the wrap method.
beachlover
03-05-2006, 18:48
Beachlover, yes you can use the knife, but you should grease the blade and wrap it in clingfilm and foil especially if it is a carbon blade. Some people make a "model" knife to form round out of wood or something to avoid the risk of corroding the blade, worth it if you will be making a few sheaths, but if it's a one off try the wrap method.
Sorry, I didn't make myself clear. Part of the question was about whether the actual knife was used, but having made several sheaths, I was more interested in the practicalities of moulding the wet leather before, rather than after it had been stitched.
I think Medium John on BB moulds the leather before he stitches it but then thats what works for his kind of sheaths (mostly very formed folder pouches). I dont think you will be able to form before stitching for a pouch kind of sheath as stitches are the best thing to hold it together while you work it. Anything else is just going to mark the leather because of the force needed to hold it.
Tiffers
beachlover
03-05-2006, 20:27
I think Medium John on BB moulds the leather before he stitches it but then thats what works for his kind of sheaths (mostly very formed folder pouches). I dont think you will be able to form before stitching for a pouch kind of sheath as stitches are the best thing to hold it together while you work it. Anything else is just going to mark the leather because of the force needed to hold it.
Tiffers
Cheers for that tiffers. It's what I thought.
jdlenton
04-05-2006, 09:04
Hi Beachlover I'm not suprised you are confused as i said pouches not sheaths. If you have a look at this post (http://www.bushcraftuk.com/community/showpost.php?p=148589&postcount=17) all should become clear. I form for pouches first and the stich i've never done a wet formed sheath i've never had the need to yet bot i would do it the other way roun as has bean explained.
James
beachlover
04-05-2006, 10:08
Hi Beachlover I'm not suprised you are confused as i said pouches not sheaths. If you have a look at this post (http://www.bushcraftuk.com/community/showpost.php?p=148589&postcount=17) all should become clear. I form for pouches first and the stich i've never done a wet formed sheath i've never had the need to yet bot i would do it the other way roun as has bean explained.
James
I thought it was just me being dumb. :rolleyes:
I was trying to picture the awkwardness and chaos of trying to wetform a sheath before stitching. Just glad I didn't try to do it by way of a trial :lmao:
Grooveski
07-05-2006, 23:53
Not quite done but as good as, still have the belt to finish.
http://i69.photobucket.com/albums/i68/Grooveski/Gubbins/Q1_02.jpg
http://i69.photobucket.com/albums/i68/Grooveski/Gubbins/Q1_03.jpg
http://i69.photobucket.com/albums/i68/Grooveski/Gubbins/Q1_04.jpg
Ended up stitching - wetting/forming(a bit) - dying(while still damp, cheers guys, worked a treat :) ) - drying - tidying - waxing/forming(twice with heat/molten wax then once with a loaded cloth)....
....and if I learned anything it's that chopping up a kip and not leaving a long enough length for belts is a pretty dumb thing to do ;).
Now that's looking good :D :cool:
Cheers,
Toddy
twelveboar
08-05-2006, 18:03
Very nice indeed.
Nice one mate
Since its so open you might want to get a coat of wax on the inside as well, not shiny just enough to stop the wet from settling into the grain side of the leather.
Next project??
Grooveski
08-05-2006, 23:34
Yeah, I need to borrow a heat gun to do the inside. A blow heater was fine for the outside but no use inside. Just going to paint it in and blast it a couple of times.
The strap I'm going to quickly dip as there's a bit of braiding up over the shoulder and the whole thing would frankly be a pain to do any other way.
And I need to make a bag to cover the feathers, tons still to do really.
Next? Mark 2 maybe, try it again with hindsight. Turned out ok but felt like a test run all along and there's a dozen things I'd change.
Prefer back quivers but want to get in a bit of practice first so this was mainly curiosity.
Sidetracked again. :rolleyes:
Ok I'm now way off topic. Theres a book written by Adrian Eliot Hodgkin called The Archers Craft. Written in 1951 but recently reprinted he gives a lot of information about bow hunting since it wasnt proscribed as it is today. he says this of qiuivers :-
"It should be 22" long; 5"wide at the top and 4" at the bottom; flat sided and collapsable. If you like a hard, ridgid, tubular affair then your diameters will not be so great .. ; but dont take such a thing with you into the woods. The best thing to do, .. is to take a sheaf of 12 broadheads and measure what will hold them comfortably; then make whatever takes your fancy. .. It must be nioseless; and this rules out hard leather, wood and canvas, which all either cause the arrows to rattle as you move, or make an intolerable noise as you push through the undergrowth. .. And finally it must keep out the wet .. As an accessory, in case it rains .. procure an oiled-silk or plastic sponge bag (??!!) with a draw string. Slip this over the feathers of your arrows,..wet does them no good and anyway makes the feathers all soft and liable to be crushed out of shape."
Elsewhere he states a preference for belt mounted quivers rather than shoulder slung saying that it is less likely to foul on branches etc and requires smaller more discrete movements to draw a shaft out - less movement means that you are less likely to alert the quarry. Also more easy to drop a hand onto to control. Try bending down with as back quiver to pick some sorrel or pig nuts and see how long it takes you to pick up all the arrows again and again.
I know that you wont be hunting (in the UK at least) but they are intresting points to think about when designing the next one. Mine is made of soft deerskin and with a dozen broadheads in it makes barely a sound when walking.
Nick
Fire Ferret
10-05-2006, 12:46
That came up you beaut Grooveski, nice job, would like to see the next one you make. Bring 'em along to the next scottish meet? :D
X
Ferret
Grooveski
10-05-2006, 17:03
It's great for what it's designed for(holding half a dozen or so arrows with heads in a convenient spot that won't tangle in trees) but for the field I prefer a back quiver because of the flowing motion between quiver and bow.
I can't slip into rhythm with this. I like to disengage my brain sometimes and chuck arrows in the general direction while concentrating on just hitting anchor or just releasing or the likes.
A break in rhythm can interfere with that kind of practice. I don't find the action of taking the arrow from the quiver a problem but laying the arrow roughly in place then moving my hand to the nock is one too many operations to really be able to do it in auto-pilot.
I get what you're saying about noise and movement but I'm unlikely to spook a big foam block. I've also dumped a few quivers worth of arrows in the past and you're right, it's no fun. I've got a couple of goatskins that I bought specificaly to make a floppy quiver so will probably give it a go at some point.
Thanks for the book reference, it sounds like an interesting read and I like the oiled silk bag idea ;) (I was going to wax some cotton).
Willdo Ferret, and cheers for the patch of sealskin. It made a nice wee rest. :)
Grooveski
10-05-2006, 20:09
Originaly Posted by nickg
(??!!)
Sponge bags. You know, bags for sponges. (http://www.letterbox.co.uk/Price/Pound10_to_Pound20_menu24/PADDED_GINGHAM_SPONGE_BAG_code _6601.html)
Hmm, one of those little green expid drybags would do a grand job with the webbing removed.
MMMMMM pretty AND functional - why fight it ;-}
Actually it was the oiled silk reference that got me - like you can find one in any branch of Boots. OK now somebody will tell me that you can!! lol
Seriously, i'd be interested to know if anybody has tried oiling silk