View Full Version : Binoculars
Rightie I've got a birthday coming up in the next couple of months and something I've been after for a while is a half decent set of binoculars, compact enough to carry when walking but clear. I know next to nothing about the currant Binos on the market at the moment any ideas what to look for, makes, features etc??
It depends what you want them for.... For wildlife watching and spotting you will probably want a high magnification to get the detail, if you want them for navigation, for checking the lay of the land for example you want something with a little less magnification and a wider field of vision (like marine binoculars which tend to be waterproof aswell).
Porro(sp?) prisms collect more light and give a sharper/clearer image as opposed to normal lenses. As for makes... I'll quote celtic dragon here on a post about binoculars a few months back:
Unfortunatly this is a game where you get what you pay for. IM experiance here are some names to go looking for
Zeiss ( nice and cost)
Nikon ( win the lottery first)
Swarofski (nice but a touch on the expensive side)
Swift ( good and shold fit you budget)
Hope you find what your looking for :-)
Ed
Buckshot
05-03-2004, 13:33
Roving Rich will be your man on this
Cheers
Mark
Buckshot
05-03-2004, 13:42
The other thing I forgot to mention was I have a Swaroski scope on my deer rifle - brilliant, absolutly brilliant.
Much better than any S&B I've seen, but then you pay for it as Ed says.
I'm so impressed with the make when I can save up enough I'm going to get a pair of binos as well :shock:
Mark
Definitely avoid unknown branded binos - lots of cheap roof prisms 8x20 and 10x25 around and I've been unimpressed with all those I've tried.
Cheapest decent optics are Russian (Helios). They do excellent 8x30s and others but old fashioned styling and heavy. Under £50. I have the 8x30 Helios monocular - unbeatable at £15.00. Russian military binos look good but not tried 'em. Soviet Bazaar used to sell them.
My binos are ex Bundeswehr Steiner 8x30 and are pretty good and light, though I'd prefer a 10x magnification. Steiner make massive quantities of binos mostly for the military market and they come in various grades - the best being akin to Zeiss/Swarovski/Leica....and at similar prices! For some reason only a few places sell them in the UK.
At the Game Fair I tried a pair of Steiner 10x50s, green rubber armour, maybe £130 but I might have remembered wrong. Extremely good.
The Ranger at the Eden Estuary has Swarovski 8.5x42 (I think) - superb optics. He tells me he uses them to hammer in fence posts after doing the geese counts!
[/quote]Roving Rich will be your man on this [/quote]
I should have though of that..... there are also a couple of keen bird watchers on here aswell that may be able to help you out ;-)
Ed
I think it's fair to say that there are cheaper hammers about!
The Ranger at the Eden Estuary has Swarovski 8.5x42 (I think) - superb optics. He tells me he uses them to hammer in fence posts after doing the geese counts!
As celtic dragon said, the more you pay, the better the bins so have a look at bins at the top end of what you can afford. I would try and get ones that are nitrogen filled to prevent fogging - I've had bins fogging up on me and it can take days for them to clear! Best to find a good dealer and test as many as possible! Don't buy cheaper bins over the net as there can be quality issues - you really have to inspect them first.
Take a look at the birdforum, there is a section there for bins:
http://www.birdforum.net/
Buy the best you can afford.
I have suffered greatly with eye strain from using cheap mobiles.
I have a pair of Leica 8x32BN's which weren't cheap at £609 but they are great and worth the price. The image is bright, sharp and clear and no more eye stain.
The 8x32's are a nice size as well. Light and compact enough to be taken everywhere.
But remember to try before you buy.
Have a look at Warehouse express
Richie
I was looking a binoclyars the other week. The brunton (helios? Silva?) Eterna seemed to get reasonable reviews for the money. The 10x25 compact looks nice at $230US (that's about £125 ATM), phase coated, Bak-4 roof prism, nitrogen purged, water proof - take a look - http://www.brunton.com/catalog.php
Eterna Compact 10x25
MSRP: $229 (£125 UKP)
2.5mm exit pupil
17mm long eye relief
260 ft. field of view at 1000 yards
8 ft. Extreme Close Focus™
4024PW with grey BinoGlove and neckstrap (Item "A" in picture)
4024PW CAMO-M with Mossy Oak® Break-up™ Camo BinoGlove and neckstrap (Item "B" in picture)
4024PW CAMO-A with Advantage® Wetlands Camo™ BinoGlove and neckstrap (Item "C" in picture)
or better....
Eterna Mid-Size 10x32
MSRP: $399 (£216 UKP)
3.2mm exit pupil
15mm long eye relief
315 ft. field of view at 1000 yards
4 ft. Extreme Close Focus™
4014PW with grey BinoGlove and neckstrap
4014PW CAMO-M with Mossy Oak® Break-up™ Camo BinoGlove and neckstrap
CM Burns
06-03-2004, 10:43
Quality bino's are a joy to use - well worth saving up for a decent pair which will then last a lifetime!
Leica's are considered by most to be just about the best available but as mentioned above it is well worth trying before buying. About 8 years ago I bought a pair of Swarovski' 8x30s because I preferred the feel, balance etc and the image quality despite a similarly priced pair of Leica's being considered superior.
Last year i bought a pair of Bausch & Lomb Elite 10x42 s - the image quality is superior to the older Swarovski's - yet i STILL prefer the Swarovski's!
www.warehouseexpress.com are excellent - often bargains to be had. My Bausch & Lombs were reduced from £650 to £500! A few weeks after i bought them they had the last pair in stock on clearance at £400 :cry:
Keep looking at Warehouse Express for their ex demo ones you can get soem good discounts off them and they are usually as new. I got my Leica 8x32 BN's from them as ex demo's and they were mint and I saved £60 in the process.
Richie
Roving Rich
16-03-2004, 15:52
Excellent advice guys. Thanks for the plug Doc. I work for the Steiner distributor for the UK so am most familiar with this range of Bino's.
The Steiners offer very high quality optics combined with a rubber armoured Makralon shell. This makes em pretty indestructible (with a 30 year warranty they have to be) hence the military like them. Steiners principle market was marine, so they build 100% waterproof binoculars designed to put up alot of weather, salt water and hard knocks. They have to be tough. They have carried this build quality across to their wildlife and hunting ranges, so have set new standards in these markets. Combined with cutting edge optical enhancements they only compare at the top end with Swarovski. Just much tougher.
Personally I prefer Porro prism binoculars, they give better 3D rendition, as the object lenses (the ones at the front) are further apart. This makes it much easier to pick objects out from a background. They also have less internal moving parts, so less to go wrong and give better colour rendition as the light doesn't bounce around and interfear so much. The down side - they are bigger and heavier.
Roof prism is the other option, internally they are much more complicated with precision moving parts so are more prone to knocks. but respect them and they will last. The major advantage is that they can be much more compact. Right down to pocket sized. So if weight is the issue this is the way to go.
You get 2 numbers say 10x50 that means 10x magnification (thats quite a bit) and a 50mm object lens. Firstly the magnification. 10x is about as much as you can reasonably hold steady with your hands, and even at this they shake a bit, so really 8x (Steiner say 7x especially for marine use) is more comfortable to use but you just can't see as far!
The 50mm - The diameter of the object lens. This determines how much light they let in, the brighter the image the easier to see. - especially in dark woods. The bigger this number the bigger the bino's (and heavier)
Now the tricky bit, divide one by the other 50/10 to give the "exit pupil", in this case 5 thats mm of the column of light that comes out the back (ocular lens) and into your eye. The pupil of your eye opens to a maximum of 7mm on average, so this is the most light your eye can absorb. So if you buy tiny pocket sized bino's say 10x26 this means you only get a column of light 2.6mm (26/10) in diameter to see with. Obviously your not going to see anywhere near as well with so little light.
Add to that low light in woodland and you really not going to see much at all. We do a fantastic pair of 8x56 "nighthunters" giving that magic 7mm exit pupil designed for dawn and dusk hunting they really are quite incredible.(sorry gratuitous plug)
Nitrogen - it stops em fogging up. Theres 2 sorts "Nitrogen purged" that means they ran nitrogen through them when they built them to evacuate any moisture. Then there is "Nitrogen filled" so its still in them, so no chance of fogging, or water getting in as they are essentially gas tight.
Beyond this it depends on your use and your budget.
The other companies that you might also consider as they do make reasonable binoculars are Swarvoski, Zeiss, Leica and the Best of the rest Bushnell, Bauch and lomb, Canon (who make the best "image stabilised" electronic binoculars if you want more than 10x magnification IMO), Nikon, Pentax, Opticron and Fujinon (again image stabilised specialists)
Other things to watch out for are "eye relief". Important if you wear glasses, as this is the distance from your eyeball that the binoculars will work, without all that black around the edge...
The other thing is close focus, surprisingly useful and often (wait for it) overlooked (boom boom)
Sorry it took so long to reply, i've been trying to post this for days.
Hope its useful
Rich
Cheers for that much appreciated, definately got a much better idea of what I'm looking for. Probably going to ask for cash for the Bday so I can supplement it a bit, saying that with current finances I'll probably be looking at a set for less than £200 (and if I went near the £200 you'll all tell my other half that it was about £100 won't you :-D ).
So with that budget in mind.......??
If you want something small and light, I'd probably go for Zeiss 8x20s (about 200 quid).
If you don't mind a bit more bulk I'd go for Steiner. I like mine.
Good alternatives: Optolyth, Opticron, Docter, second hand Leica/Swarovski?
Justin Time
16-03-2004, 23:01
Roving Rich has provided a lot of useful information, one of the key points being about the relationship between the magnification and the size of the object lense. This will help with low light levels at dawn and dusk, and it really helps, it's amazing the difference that a goodish pair of bins can make when badger watching, you'll see badgers through the bins that you won't see with the naked eye. In addition they also help with acquisition, ie how easy it is to put the bins to your eyes and latch on to what it was that captured your interest in the first place, eg a small bird in a tree. For a newcomer to using bins the lower the magnifications are better in that regard.
My bins are Bushnell 10x42 Natureview, cost about £130 five or six years ago, well worth checking out now. Not waterproof, no nitrogen, can't remember getting a prob with fogging, if it's raining I just stick them in my jacket. If I was buying a new pair for under £200 I would be looking for image quality first before the other aspects, but maybe that's just me. You'll find all sorts of gimmicks on the cheaper bins, IMO those are often there to make up for, or disguise, or divert from the quality of the glass. Go to Dixons and you'll see red lenses etc, avoid them. Depending on how you intend using them you might want to avoid the mini-bins or those with small object lenses.
Lastly go somewhere where you can try out a range of bins, buying mail order without trying first is dodgy, if you know what you want then fine. A lot of the bigger bird reserves, eg Slimbridge, Martin Mere have have an optics shop on sight (hehe, ok on site) where you can really try them out with someone who knows what they're selling.
HTH
I'm with doc and Rich - just recently upgraded my old pentax marine 6x30's to Steiner military marine 6x30's.
The pentax glases are very respectable and most people who've never used them remark on how good they are - but the Steiners are significantly lighter, smaller with a slightly crisper image and much better field of view.
I can't speak highly enough of 6x30 for versatility and ease of use. It's something akin to the old hunters who prefered a good fixed 4x riflescope to the new high power zooms.
A £200 budget is more than enough to grab a pair of these.
Cheers
Buckshot
17-03-2004, 11:09
Canon (who make the best "image stabilised" electronic binoculars if you want more than 10x magnification IMO), Nikon, Pentax, Opticron and Fujinon (again image stabilised specialists)
Rich
I've heard of these image stabilised bins before, are they really better suited to long range spying - say in the highlands of Scotland, or are they OK for the short to medium use ?
I assume you pay more for the same mag etc. but how much more, are these only for the very serious or the very rich ?
Cheers
Mark
C_Claycomb
17-03-2004, 12:02
I bought a nice pair of Leica 8x40s a few years back. They were an older model, the new ones were £650, these had been traded in and were going for £350. Yeah, yeah £350 :shock: I was working a summer job, I don't drink and had the money handy :roll:
They were worth every penny.
Anyway, the top end stuff is still worth looking at second hand. Check out camera shops. You may not find a bargain, but you might get more for your budget than if you buy new.
Chris
I've heard of these image stabilised bins before, are they really better suited to long range spying - say in the highlands of Scotland, or are they OK for the short to medium use ?
I assume you pay more for the same mag etc. but how much more, are these only for the very serious or the very rich ?
HiMark, I've briefly used a pair of military image stabilised glasses - I didn't have any other bino's around at the time to compare lens quality - though I don't think they were outstanding - but the difference when you turned stabilisation on was dramatic. At 20x magnification hand held, you couldn't see a thing without it due to shake, but the image goes rock solid when the stabiliser is switched on. I think that's the point- to make high magnification usable. I imagine they're only made in 10, 15, 20x and no one would bother for 8x. Cheers.
Cheers Chris, I didn't even think to look in the camera stores, we've got a few around here that have second hand goods in, will go and have a look.
Matt
Buckshot
19-03-2004, 08:43
Thanks Alick,
I think I'll have to see if I can my hands on a pair to try before I decide...
Cheers
Mark
Roving Rich
19-03-2004, 10:49
Spot on Alick, they only really come into there own at the higher magnifications, where as Alick said you have no hope of holding them steady by hand.
They do come with quite a hefty price tag, about £500-£1500. They are the future of optics, along with auto focus. But then the more electronics you introduce the more possible pitfalls. If you are depending on bino's for your life then simple and reliable is the best option.
If i was spending that kind of money I would go for better optics with less magnification, and steer clear of the electronic gimmicks.(IMO)
Now another interesting pair of Bino's especially for you buckshot, is a range finder pair made by Bushnell. These give you a range to target for shooting which I feel could be useful. Again though you compromise on the optics, which are very good but not upto Steiner or Swarovski, Leica & Zeiss.
Cheers
Rich :-D
Buckshot
19-03-2004, 14:07
Now another interesting pair of Bino's especially for you buckshot, is a range finder pair made by Bushnell.
Yes I was interested in these rangfinders as well and actually managed to have a look at a pair of Bushnell rangfinder bins at the Midland Game Fair last year.
As you say the glass quality isn't there for me, plus when you press the button to guage the distance to an object the numbers that are displayed are in black with no illumination at all. This means if you're trying to look at something with a dark background (the edge of a wood) you have to then look at a lighter background ( the sky) to read the range :shock: It's even worse at night :shock: :shock: When I tried them I was only looking at a single tree and struggled - and that was at lunchtime
If the display was in red say or illumiated it would be much better
I think these sorts of things will only improve and it does save carrying a rangfinder and bins when 'roaming about'.
Interesting what you say about the image stabalised bins, I suppose you're paying for the technology to the detriment of the glass quality.
You pays your money and takes your choice.
Do Steiner make anything like this ??
Cheers
Mark
Roving Rich
19-03-2004, 15:32
No Steiner do pure optics. Only binoculars infact, nothing else, no scopes, camera lenses or photocopiers
The most electronic they get was a digital compass in one of the marine pairs a few years back. But they have returned to a more reliable capstan compass, with a red back-light of course. Thing is you may have to trust your life to them at sea, so they don't build any crap.
Cheers
Rich 8-)
Buy the best you can afford and they'll be friends for ever.
I use Zeiss 7x40 for general birding and Leica 10x32 for seawatching and Leica Scopes for spotting work. One of my scopes has been
blown down the beach, the lens scratched but is still superb - hardly noticeable.
Best to try before you buy as optically all eyes are different and also you will be able to see which are the easiest to the eye.
Buy good quality second hand rather than mediocre - new!
For my clients I use and sell Bynolyt - a tough Dutch binocular.
Have fun on your quest
JeremyH