Hearing Enhancers

[Fallow Way]

I have been introduced to the idea of using hearing enhancers when man tracking, I do it for a Search and Rescue team, and wanted to get any feedback I could about makes and models if anyone has come across them. (They are used in some quarters when hunting)

The two models I have found are from the States:

Redhead Hearing Enhancer $14.99

and the

Walkers Game Ear I and II $149 - $199

If anyone has any experience of these, or indeed aware of any other makes and models they would suggest I look at then please suggest.

[Buckshot]

I had a letter through the post yesterday for an 'in the ear' digital ear defender set just released onto the market. Mine for a special price of just £495 :eek: A british company.

Truth is I've not had much luck with them myself, I find the microphones get affected by the wind too much making you turn the volume down and defeating the object.
If you use the headphones type it means you can't wear a full brim hat - which I do ! On the other hand it does keep your ears warm

Perhaps if I could find and 'in the ear' style with decent wind proction for a decent price I might look into it - but so I've not found one...

Mark

[Marts]

I was always told that that's what your hands are for ;)

[Fallow Way]

Well yes, same principle, but when its an emergency, there are 101 other things going on and it could just be that faint change in bird language some distance away at the periphery of your senses, you want to give yourself every chance possible to pick up on it.......and still have your hands free.......not looking like Dumbo :-)

[Rhoda]

Walkers Game Ear is pretty good. :)

[Fallow Way]

Is that was Max uses? I never got a good look at his, he did mention he payed the extra to get it in a "tactical" (ie cool) black :-)

[Rhoda]

:lmao: That would be telling! Actually I 'm not 100% sure which one he's using now, can't keep up with all the kit he goes through but I know that the game ear is good.

[bushwacker bob]

If your 'man' tracking why not use a DOG. they have enhanced hearing and the ability to follow a scent and unless your dog is K9,they dont run out of batteries when you need them most.There are recognised breeds specially bred for the purpose and are used by many search and rescue groups.

[amott69]

Max uses one of the walkers hearing enhancers, he showed me it on a course last year.

[bambodoggy]

Max uses one of the walkers hearing enhancers, he showed me it on a course last year.

And maybe at Max's level it really does enhance things... I think for most of us non-professionals the Mark One Human Ear would do just fine.

I tend to agree with Bob too, a well trained dog with an equally well trained handler will find a man faster than all but the highest level of human tracker imo.

just my thoughts....

Bam. :)

[Hawkeye The Noo]

When on a tactical course last year with Max we used a lot of hand signals to communicateas it was all about tracking and not being seen or heard. The tactical ear was so that you could hear the person you were tracking before they heard you as the trackers life may depend on it. In a SAR situation they can be complementary but are not as essential as in a tactical.

cheers

Jamie

[bushwacker bob]

ahh, I see now. I thought it was for search and rescue, but you mean its for sneaking up on people without them knowing, kind of SAS bushcraft :eek:

[Fallow Way]

Dogs are used in Search and Rescue also, however there are gains and drawback as with everything and I am not at this point interested in becoming a SAR dog handler but do spend a lot of time with them on training exercises. It is a very valuable addition to a SAR team, however their availability is not always assured and there is only so much ground they can cover and ways to use them.



Search and Rescue is not just going out and looking for people as many expect, you have to be trained and certified and there is a huge management effort controlling all the different teams.



When tracking, and when in an emergency it needs to be aggressive tracking, picking up on the concentric circles emanating from the MISPER could greatly reduce the time spent looking for them. As an example, on the Search and Rescue tracking Part One course I did with Max through the United Kingdom Lowlands Search and Rescue Institute, I picked up on a bird language change caused by him 20 minutes before we actually tracked to his position. This sort of thing is vital to pick up on in a life and death situation.



It’s the same as saying not to use binoculars or radio equipment at the end of the day. There is a device to aid you in the endeavor to save life/suffering, use it.



If there is a gadget out there that will help me detect something I might have missed in this sort of instance then I think it is worth it. I can be a purest in my own time.

[Hawkeye The Noo]

[color=#694600]It’s the same as saying not to use binoculars or radio equipment at the end of the day. There is a device to aid you in the endeavor to save life/suffering, use it.



If there is a gadget out there that will help me detect something I might have missed in this sort of instance then I think it is worth it. I can be a purest in my own time.

I could not agree more, if it works for you, use it. if it saves lives, even better. I have a lot of respect for the people involved in SAR as you do a great and valued job.


Jamie :You_Rock_

[bushwacker bob]

It could also COST lives.
If your birdy call change was sparked by something other than the lost person ie a fox etc it could have the whole tracking effort heading in the wrong direction for 20 minutes before you realised you audible mistake.Its a piece of kit better suited to search and destroy rather than search and rescue.

[EdS]

to be honest in a SAR they'd not be much good. From my experience the missing person is either:

1) at home
2) injured/unconsious/hiding
3) dead - often hang from a tree.
4) down a cave

It is not often that they are wandering around making a noise - unless they are actually on a RoW.

[Fallow Way]

Bushwacker Bob - LOL i wouldn’t know the search and destroy applications not being military trained, I just know Search and Rescue.



In that instance, although it took the teams 20 minutes to track down to where Max was hiding, if Control had requested my team investigate, we cold have walked there in a minute or less due to where he actually was. In addition, if you are sign cutting with another Tracker team, or there are also Search teams in that area, they could be tasked with investigating, leaving the team to continue following sign. The idea in a SAR situation is to use all aggressive means available to close the Time/Distance gap. A lot of SAR is going on available information, established patterns of behavior and trying to get into the mindset of the MISPER and at the same time trying to understand where they might have gone, systematically eliminating areas. Our Control’s have a big old map to stare at and have time and again gone on what little information they have gained about the MISPER and been correct in where they think they have gone.



As well as being systematic, there are elements of guesswork and bold movements for example Type I search "hasty" teams being sent out in a wide arch to check track traps/pathways. This sort of exploratory action would have lead to a team finding a MISPER in 30 minutes some 2kilometres away had the Training Manager of that event not decided to make life harder for them :-)



EDS - in all the case reports for the Association of Lowland Search and Rescue, the number which come under your situations is by far the minority. If you also go on Missing Person Behavior modeling stats from past searches which encompass UK and USA, obviously with the exception of Despondent, again the amount is drastically in the minority.



In my experience I have found studying the concentric circles which could be caused by a MISPER has been a phenomenal eye opener thanks to Max. I have found it to be an amazingly useful tool. As another example I tracked a fellow Forester through a large site the day after just through bird language.



However I didn’t really want to have a big conversation about the idea of using them, just what makes and models people are familiar with. At present I’m convinced in the idea of trying it and seeing what I can get out of it.

[Muckypaws]

Paul,

Have a word with any local deer stalkers - they use them.

Also, if you want to try some out visit the British Raptor Fair (newport, Shropshire) this weekend and there will be people selling them for you to try.

I've been to this game fair a few times and really enjoyed it.

Message me if you want more info.

Simon

[Muckypaws]

With a deaf partner I can vouch for the issue of wind noise - she is always suffering from interferance when out in the countryside. Anything that is close to the mike will cause noise whether its a hood or collar etc. Even with her cochlear Implant that has programmable DSP and multiple Microphones they cannot eliminate this noise.

Also, as Max discovered - they don't like getting wet! You can get rain coveres for them but they are still vulnerable through the mike appeture.

You might also like to try getting hold of a 2nd hand analogue hearing aid (which, after all is what they are) and then buy a custom ear mould to use with it. I think she has some old ones if you want to try them but you still need to the ear mould regardless.

Simon

[Fallow Way]

It was some stalkers that suggested the Walker model.Phone later for the shropshire game fair info.

[bushwacker bob]

It was some stalkers that suggested the Walker model.Phone later for the shropshire game fair info.
I'm not going to ask what sort of 'stalkers' you know :lmao: :lmao: :lmao:

[Fallow Way]

The worse kind so pay me that money you owe me lol :lmao:

[Oakleaf]

Computer playing up so couldnt access when just tried to check. Mas Ayoob previously mentioned using ( I think ) Wolf Ear brand of ear defencers with electronic enhancement/ loud noise shut off etc.

Stick Masaad Ayoob into Google and it'll take you to his online store.

No direct experience, so may be totally the wrong thing, but he specifically mentioned using them both for police work and hunting.

My experience with 'cheap' electronic ear defenders echoes Buckshot - wind noise drives you slowly crackers - and picking up derogatory comments from guys twenty yards behind you on the range is very off-putting!

Hope helps.

[EdS]

Fallow Way: it would be interesting to compare Low Land SAR and MRT methods.

Seems that basic search in is similar but there does appear to be some differences - guess due to terrain. Also I figure Low Land teams do more searching than MRTs and less "rescue" stuff.

[Fallow Way]

Indeed, i`ll PM you to have this discussion as I`m sure it will be long and boring for most people reading the thread.



Briefly though, yes generally for Lowland, as there are few places beyond the relatively easy access (compared to mountain ranges) of the other emergency services, our general remit is to find the MISPER, deliver first aid and package them ready for the services to take over, although we have members capable are far more than that.

[stone]

Indeed, i`ll PM you to have this discussion as I`m sure it will be long and boring for most people reading the thread.

It would be interesting to see how many people on this board are SAR volunteers. It might be good to start a new thread for the SAR folks. I'm fairly involved in a local SAR team in Calgary, and it's neat to see the similarities in operations to the UK based teams! :D

~mike

[rich59]

Are hearing enhancers electronic devices or mechanical (like bigger ears)?

[Fallow Way]

They are electronic the ones i am interested in, although there are mechanical devices also.

[Fallow Way]

I am getting really fed up with the childish behaviour of some people on this forum.....

Hearing Enhancers (http://www.bushcraftuk.com/community/showthread.php?p=164938#post16 4938)26-04-2006 17:49Distant bird song! What utter rubbish! Grow up!



Whoever made this isnt mature enough to engage in the conversation so decides to make a idiot remark in secret. If you dont think it works, fine, dont even attempt to find out anymore about it and stick to your snap decision and some strange notion that your always right.

If however you try it, take what i`ve said in my experiences of using it or talk to one of the other people that have experienced it and use it, you will find it is another tool that can help you. Open your mind to the possibilty of learning something for heavens sake.

If you really really really want to bash the idea, how about I point you towards the highly...highly respected tracker that introduced me to it....and see how your snap decision pans out then? .....no? didnt think so.

Its comments like this which make the whole idea of BCUK repugnant at times I`m sorry to say.

[Buckshot]

Not quite sure what you're referring to FW.
The link you posted just comes to this thread again.
If you want to PM with a specific of the post you are taking exception to we can follow it up
I couldn't see a post on the date and time either.

Thanks

Mark

[Fallow Way]

Have pm`d the details, thanks

[ianmaxwell]

Its good to see Fallow Way being current on equipment used in tracking.
I use The Walkers Tactical Ear, and I get my moneys worth. It did flood under British weather, however it is so good that I have bought another one to replace it.
This week I start filming a documentary for Discovery. I will be showing an improvised electronic listening device used to pick up distant wildlife sounds at night and give us a direction to start cutting for spoor for a specific animal.
I am with you on this, Fallow Way, using a listenting device gives the tracker an added advantage, and we need every advantage we can get to close the TDG.

[Hawkeye The Noo]

Slight change of topic but still on technology and tracking.

3 questions:
1 Has anyone ever used avalanche transceivers in SAR operations?
2 If so to what extent were they useful?
3 Do you think they would have much of an overlap in tracking applications?

Cheers

Jamie

[Hawkeye The Noo]

here is a link with a review I found for the tactical ear mark 3

http://www.defensereview.com/modules.php?name=News&file=article&sid=255

Cheers

Jamie

[2blackcat]

Hawkeye, is that review too large to cut and paste?

Only this work 'puter blocks that site. Says something about weapons!
It's the only reason I can't get to look at BB site either

Anyone would think I'm here to work :eek:

[Hawkeye The Noo]

I will need to wait until I get home from work to do this for same reasons. I might also have to edit it a little. Will cut and paste tonight and edit so that it is bkuk friendly.

Cheers

Jamie

[Marts]

Hawkeye, is that review too large to cut and paste?

Only this work 'puter blocks that site. Says something about weapons!
It's the only reason I can't get to look at BB site either

Anyone would think I'm here to work :eek:

Here (or should it be hear :rolleyes: ) ya go mate...

New Tactical Ear III W-C by Walker's Game Ear. Let Your Ears Go Bionic.
Once you have a pair of these babies on, Colonel Steve Austin, the Six Million Dollar Man, wouldn't have much on ya'. Compact and lightweight, Walker's Tactical Ear III W-C, by Walker's Game Ear, gives military special operators, LE tactical operators, and serious shooters two-way communications ability, a noise reduction rating of 29 decibals against loud bangs, and ambient sound amplification to nine times normal levels.
It goes without saying that if a military special operator is on a dangerous mission in some God-forsaken country, or a SWAT tactical operator is on a stakeout or conducting raid, it's advantageous if they can...

hear the bad guys before the bad guys can hear them, and simultaneously have adequate hearing protection immediately, just in case a firefight happens to breaks out.

What separates Walker's Tactical Ear III W-C from the other Tactical Ear products is it's two-way communications feature. It can receive signals from a transmit wire that is worn around the neck and connected to the operator's walkie-talkie. The Tactical Ear III W-C grabs the signal coming from the neck loop right out of the air.

Another neat feature of Walker's Tactical Ear III W-C, and that is shared by Walker's Tactical Ear II, is it's AFT(Adjustable Frequency Tuning) circuit, which allows the user to customize the frequency response to their individual need, depending on their specific combat environment. For instance, a military Spec-Ops operator is much more likely to wind up in a higher decible environment involving sustained automatic weapons fire than an LE tactical operator, dignitary protection team member, or government agent, all of whom are much more likely to be on some kind of low to medium decibal-level urban operation.

The Tactical Ear III W-C is lightweight and compact, and no special fitting is required. It's only 1.06 inches high by .34 inches wide, and weighs less than 1/4 ounce. Constructed of rugged, non-reflective plasic, it incorporates a large number volume control, along with an integrated on-off switch. The unit operates on a 1.4v cell battery, which is included. It also comes with one ear plug and a carrying case.

Personally, if I were going to use a Walker's Tactical Ear, I would wear a Walker's Tactical Ear II in each ear alongside New Eagle's excellent Special Operations "bone mic" headset, or one of their Enforcer Series Headets, either their Enforcer I or Enforcer II, both of which also operate using "bone mics" a.k.a. "bone vibrators". Since the New Eagle headset would cover all my two-way comm needs, the Tactical Ear III W-C's built-in two-way comm circuitry would be unnecessary. The Walker's Tactical Ear II/New Eagle headset combo would give me one hell of a tactical hearing/communications package. It's certainly not the least expensive way to go, but why quibble over money when your life is on the line?

[2blackcat]

Many thanks for that, my friend

You're another step up that distinguished path :D

Sounds like an intresting bit of kit but way too hi-tech for what I'd be using it for

[Fallow Way]

Thats for that info, that exactly the sort of feedback I was hopeing for.

I think i`m going to settle for the Walker Game II at the minute from everything I have read.

Its a shame a certain someone is still continuing to give me negtive reputation and trying to argue a point rather than being grown up enough to talk about it and engage in the debate rather than make comments in secret and immature ones at that.

[Marts]

Be interesting to hear what you think of them. :)

[bambodoggy]

Its a shame a certain someone is still continuing to give me negtive reputation and trying to argue a point rather than being grown up enough to talk about it and engage in the debate rather than make comments in secret and immature ones at that.

Ok, just so everybody else knows too, it was me that gave you negative points and I gave them because I don't agree with what you are saying and I didn't bring it up in public because I didn't really want an arguement about it (although it looks like I'm going to get one). You're not going to agree with me and I'm not with you so why bother discussing it.

If you aren't able to take comment on what you say then don't say it....you're hardly the only person to receive negative feedback and if you don't like the feedback system than speak to Tony about it. The system is there and I've used it...deal with it.

As for immature....at least I gave you a comment so you know what I didn't like about your posts....you on the other hand just left it blank when you choose to very maturely in a "tit-for-tat" style give me back neg feedback.

So there you have it...you've pushed to make an anonymous system public and got your way....well done.

Bam.

[Fallow Way]

Bam - Firstly. I didnt know it was you. I don’t mind taking a comment, but not one when it is rudely dismissive and insulting and it is not the first time you have blatantly insulted me in this way and I don’t see the reason for it.



Secondly, I haven’t given you any neg rep.



If you didn’t agree with how Max teaches then fair enough, voice your opinions and have a debate about it, don’t go making childish comments in secret. If you don’t want it in public, PM me instead. If you are that concerned to record your opinion with me then at least put your name to it so I can address them. That if there were comments about posts and not just bickering.





Marts - I think for the price, $14.99 i`ll get one of the Redhead Hearing Enhancers also, see what that’s like.

[Marts]

Hey gang....:swordfigh :grouphug:

[Fallow Way]

I know I know.....like I say, i have noooo problem with people debating something, but when it degrades into petty name calling and insults anonymously, I take issue.

[Marts]

I'm off to Nova Scotia in September with Max. Wonder if he'll bring them with him?

[Hazelnut]

Marts - I think for the price, $14.99 i`ll get one of the Redhead Hearing Enhancers also, see what that’s like.

Sorry chaps, when I first read this thread, I read it quickly, and thought you wrote Red Herring Enhancers, and I had to check it wasn't posted on April Fool's Day. :lmao: :lmao:

What's happened to good old fashioned listening with your ears, and practising to use these skills to enhance your natural hearing. What will be next, foot mufflers on bears etc. to even things up a bit? :rolleyes:

[Fallow Way]

I agree with you, 99% of the way.

I am talking specifically in terms of Search and Rescue application. Without waffling on for a long time boring everyone :-) things are different then and anything that can help you pick up on the Mipser or sign caused by them all the better I say :-)

[bambodoggy]

[color=#694600][size=3]If you didn’t agree with how Max teaches then fair enough

I wasn't going to reply to this thread any further but I do need to say this:

I've never said anything about the way Max teaches, I've never met the guy or been taught by him, I have no idea how he teaches but almost all I have ever heard about him from people I respect has told me he is both a very very good tracker and teacher., furthermore my only post before today on this thread actually praises Max:


And maybe at Max's level it really does enhance things...

That's all I have to say.

Bam. :D

[Fallow Way]

No, publicly you haven’t put down his teachings and ideas of bird language.

[bambodoggy]

See there you go again, twisting what I've said. I actually do agree about being aware of things such as birds changing their calls and songs...it was taught to me on the tracking course I went on.

What I was saying if I have to spell it out is that I don't belive you are able to do that quite as well as you make out.

I say again, I have never said anything detrimental about Max.

[tomtom]

This thread is way off topic and certainly isn’t being constructive, lets get it back on course or its going to get locked down.

[bambodoggy]

Secondly, I haven’t given you any neg rep.

Now that the admin team have made it possible to see who left what rep would you care to change your statement above (in the interests of honesty and accuracy)?

[Stuart]

Bam drop it!

Why degrade an otherwise good thread by continuing to rant about this? Fallow way has stopped posting on the forums so probably wont reply anyway.

I don’t have the time or patience to read your petty squabbles anymore quit arguing both of you and try to use the forums with some sense of decorum.

if you want to sling mud at each other set up an msn chat where you can go at it to your hearts content and we don’t have to listen to you

[bambodoggy]

Just wanted to set the record straight Stuart, I'm sure you'd have wanted the same had it have been you.....however, consider it dropped :)

[mjk3k]

Search and Rescue is not just going out and looking for people as many expect,




It’s the same as saying not to use binoculars or radio equipment at the end of the day. There is a device to aid you in the endeavor to save life/suffering, use it.[/color]

.[/color]

IM part of a SAR team ... and like Fallow Way said any thing that helps is a bonous ..

[Fallow Way]

Just a quick update.



I`m had a electronic hearing enhancer a few weeks now and have got to admit its a fantastic bit of kit.



It does allow me to passively pick up on a lot more that’s going on (as in i`m concentrating on looking at a piece of sign, me sole attention is not on listening). As with anything its a skill to learn how to use it fully, but I`m very happy with what i`m getting so far and as an aside from the gizmo, concentric circles/bird language is a fascinating study.



The wind doesn’t seem to be a problem unless it is a real blower and in doing some control tests, the faint sounds I pick up with it, can not be heard without it, which is common sense.



One obvious limitation I have experienced is using it in an urban environment, (which I am spending time on currently looking at tracking application for town centers, industrial estates etc etc), too much noise.

[Phantom]

how much do they actually enhance your hearing :confused:
phantom

[Fallow Way]

A lot, although obviously it is only for one ear which takes a little getting used to. It can easily lead you to ignoring sounds picked up by your none enhanced ear, but with practice its not a problem.


As I said before, the really interesting and useful aspect of it other than its amplification, is that it is continously active, which means even when i am looking at sign and concentrating, anything that the enhancer picks up, i register.

It is possible to track through bird noise. I have been out many times and done it with wildlife now but also with people. Another member of the team who was not previously a tracker, until he attended Max`s SAR tracker course, once caught me. I set the team the task of finding me. In order to watch them I was a devilish little tyke and stalked around and behind them. It was only the sound of a lone chaffinch reacting to me that gave me away and the member turned around and spotted me straight away.

"What I was saying if I have to spell it out is that I don't belive you are able to do that quite as well as you make out."
Bam - Beleive me or not, its not my concern. I never said I was an expert, just telling people what I`ve discovered since learning this area of study and hopefully someone will try it. I take everyone at their word on their abilities here.

[amott69]

fallow way you rock mate.what is the problem with useing a bit of kit which enable someone to improve there skills.I,m also a firm believer in concentric circles just yesterday i was out walking my dog with my little girl when i saw someone in the woods coming towards me up a path, as my dog gets a bit over excitable when she sees other dogs, i decided to move into the woods.Once in the woods i looked back up the path to see the bloke was gone then i heard a blackbird away to my left give a alarm call i sat looking towards the sound of the blackbird for a few minutes, then i saw the bloke i had seen on the path coming towards me through the woods he was trying to do the same as me(his dog was as mad as mine).Anyway i thought it was a good example of listening to bird song and alarms calls which is all important signs when doing sit spots and shrinking those circles.
What model hearing enhancer have you brought mate?

[Fallow Way]

I only personally use the enhancer when I am Search and Rescue tracking. When I track for my own enjoyment I do not use it as it would ruin the experience, its horses for courses.

Instead of the Walker version(expensive) I have initially gone for a Redhead(very good shirts also) which is a hunting kit manufacterer in the States. Its cheap because it doesnt have the dampening effect the Walker has for gun shots, which is a lot of technical wizardry in the little box. I also figured, as I am still learning, it would be a waste to spend so much money if it turns out I dont like it or cant use it. As it turns out I like it very much and intend in the future to purchase the Walker II, perhaps even fork out for the tactical(.....ie in black lol).

Its a lot of fun playing a missing person in our SAR scenarios. Laying there listening to the wildlife ract as team members pass through is a really good chance to learn regularly. I have started sending signals to trackers in the team where i am by suddenly making a small movement and the birds reacting. Sometimes I give an atom bomb of a hint if I`m lucky to have a flock of bramblings overhead or something, they make a fuss when startled.

Its a fascinating area of study I`d emplor everyone to look at, not even as part of tracking, just as an awarness of what is going on.

[bambodoggy]

"What I was saying if I have to spell it out is that I don't belive you are able to do that quite as well as you make out."
Bam - Beleive me or not, its not my concern. I never said I was an expert, just telling people what I`ve discovered since learning this area of study and hopefully someone will try it. I take everyone at their word on their abilities here.

Oh you're back are you, I thought you'd left in a huff a little while ago. Well, welcome back...shall we agree to avoid each other and not wind each other up on here now? :)

Best to let it lay I think. I'm pleased the enhancer is working well for you and that you are enjoying using it. :)

Bam. :)