View Full Version : veg oil / diesel
just got my forms from Customs and Excise to register as a fuel producer - anyone else running on veg oil.
Still can not see why biodiesel (veg oil plus some iffy chemicals) pays less tax than SVO - great way to encourage alternative/greener fuels.
For info:
http://www.vegetableoildiesel.co.uk/forum/index.php
rcorbett10
23-04-2006, 14:07
ive been looking into turning to biodeisel, have u been using it for long? do you make your own? (and how?)
Rob Corbett
A lot of guys on here have been using it for a while use the search button there is loads of info.
http://www.hiluxsurf.co.uk/forums/index.php
bushtuckerman
23-04-2006, 15:12
Just as a general point, i'm not sure how relevant this is here, but if you can make your own then that could be a way of ensuring that your fuel production and use is close to being carbon neutral. If you produced it from your own waste anyway, and by growing a plot of tall grasses or something(?), on the other hand vegetable waste usually produces lots of methane (at least an order of magnitude more powerful a greenhouse gas than CO2) when decomposing in an anoxic environment, and is something to consider.
Generally it seems a good idea, but biodiesel is most certainly not, in terms of being 'green'.
Ian
demographic
23-04-2006, 15:47
Theres a bloke I know who produces his own biodiesel from waste oil from his local schools and so on, no modifications to his van either.
Mind I think the kit that him and his mate bought cost about four grand though, but theres scope for selling the excess off to make some money back.
havingagiraffe
23-04-2006, 21:14
just got my forms from Customs and Excise to register as a fuel producer - anyone else running on veg oil.
Still can not see why biodiesel (veg oil plus some iffy chemicals) pays less tax than SVO - great way to encourage alternative/greener fuels.
For info:
http://www.vegetableoildiesel.co.uk/forum/index.php
Good work fella. Big thumbs up..... :)
planning on running on straight veg oil rather biodiesel. In the Land Rover 50% in summer and 20-30% in winter, mixed with normal dino-diesel.
Still have to pay the higher rate of duty but for the amount I use it works out cheaper the messing around making biodiesel. Hoping that I can also get some waste veg oil for nothing, then just filter it.
Once I'm up and running I'll report back.
I know a mechanic that runs his car on almost pure veggie oil. Stinks like a chippy. Slightly lower milage to the gallon. I think he has decided to abandon the experiement as more trouble than it was worth.
Also people should remember that buying veggie oil from the supermarket for use in a car is evading duty.
Wayne, that is why I've registered with HMC&E - settle the duty up every month. Unfortunately it is 47p per litre the same as normal DERV. But I should get the oil cheap or free.
There are several cases on going about the getting the lower rate of duty, as paid on biodiesel, on SVO.
planning on running on straight veg oil rather biodiesel. In the Land Rover 50% in summer and 20-30% in winter, mixed with normal dino-diesel.
We're doing the same - just hoping the lease company don't find out as I'm sure it'll cost us something when the car goes back!
havingagiraffe
24-04-2006, 20:57
We're doing the same - just hoping the lease company don't find out as I'm sure it'll cost us something when the car goes back!
Hope they don't charge you for new pump and injectors when the lease is up. :rolleyes:
havingagiraffe
24-04-2006, 23:47
Yeah - me too!
:D :D :D
An agricultural engineer friend of mine said one of his customers had a warranty claim turned down by Land Rover because the pump was full of veg oil when the fitters took it apart. :eek:
got the paper work through this week - typically on the day I put a full tanks worth in the Astra since I got it.
Going start with veg oil this coming week - the cars? Astra 1.7TD (not TDi) and Land Rover 90 (19J Falcon 2.5TD engine)
I'll let you know how it goes.
Land Rover 90 (19J Falcon 2.5TD engine)
I'll let you know how it goes.
Cool - I run one of them too. I'll keep an eye on this thread methinks...
got the paper work through this week - typically on the day I put a full tanks worth in the Astra since I got it.
Going start with veg oil this coming week - the cars? Astra 1.7TD (not TDi) and Land Rover 90 (19J Falcon 2.5TD engine)
I'll let you know how it goes.
Any news on how this is going so far??
so far:
Both vehicles running on a 50/50 mix new veg oil and diesel.
Astra - used 2 tanks of fuel with no noticable difference (other than smell) - if anything the engine is a little less noisey / rattles less
Land Rover - used around 1 tanks worth with no noticable differnence.
After every 3 or 4 tanks I intent to run 1/4 of a tank normal diesel just to purge the injector pump.
Next plan - finish filtering the used veg oil I got given and run that with 50/50 diesel. Although I might mix it with equal new veg oil for the first run (25/25/50 new/waste/diesel)
So are you processing it before you put it in the tank?
I put 20l diesel in then:
new veg oil - add to tank straight from the bottle
used veg oil - filter then straight in to tank.
cool. :D I think that I might give this a go. Where's the easiest place to sort the documentation out?
johnknights
01-06-2006, 06:52
I've been registered and producing for a couple of years now, you'll find the HMC totally unhelpful, and not consistent with what they will allow the lower rate, SVO should qualify.
I have nothing other than a couple of gasket problems on my 200 tdi Discovery, started to leak fuel out of the injector pump. soon fixed though.
If your looking for an easy green method then a look at http://www.bio-power.co.uk/ is really worth a look, with a very easy recipe.
I have done a course with them and they have already sorted out most of the HMC issues.
hope that helps
John
to get the paper work sorted try giving HMCR a ring on
0845 010 9000
bushman762
03-06-2006, 13:55
I have found that there are quite a few licenced producers that are producing Biodiesel. I am buying my Biodiesel at 76p per litre all taxes paid.
I run my van on Biodiesel and get just over one mile to the gallon extra than I did on fosil fuel (ord road diesel), but she runs much quieter and smoother. I can't rate it high enough, plus hopefully I'm doing my bit for the environment.
Word of warning though...as in most things watch the price, I have been asked to pay 86p to 95p...
In France I believe that all road diesel has about 2 - 5% Biodiesel included and that we should be following suit!
Best Regards :)
demographic
08-06-2006, 21:47
Oh, for those thinking about running vans on veggie oil, its worth mentioning that you can heat your house with waste oil.
Heres a few links of the bloke I know who might be giving a boiler a bash soon.
One (http://lechma.de/shop/product_info.php/info/p36_Universal-oil-burner.html/XTCsid/2eab4a61204a3c9518e8c4c832c85a af) Another (http://www.econoheat.com/boilers.htm) and Another (http://www.krolluk.com/multifuel_burners.htm)
As my user name might suggest, I just want to check something out here...
Some of you guys are talking about buying a big load of vegetable oil from a supermarket, or wholesale, and pouring that straight into your tanks (with the same amount of "dinofuel" :lmao: ) and then driving around on this.
No engine modifications?
No performance problems?
How much cheaper is it?
Sorry if the answer is obvious, it just seems a little too good to be true!
(And Wayne, I would, of course, seek to pay Gordon Brown his duty!)
Groovy
Paul
demographic
08-06-2006, 22:43
As my user name might suggest, I just want to check something out here...
Some of you guys are talking about buying a big load of vegetable oil from a supermarket, or wholesale, and pouring that straight into your tanks (with the same amount of "dinofuel" :lmao: ) and then driving around on this.
No engine modifications?
No performance problems?
How much cheaper is it?
Sorry if the answer is obvious, it just seems a little too good to be true!
(And Wayne, I would, of course, seek to pay Gordon Brown his duty!)
Groovy
Paul
Mmmmm, those wishing to just pour it straight into their tanks better had not own something with a Lucas injectors...
Yep, we're talking about pouring vegetable oil straight into the fuel tank.
Check this out:
http://www.ravenfamily.org/andyg/vegoil.htm
As for Lucas injectors that's what my van has and it worked just fine. I tried it at around a 10% mixture.
The savings aren't huge when you work out the duty. I'd sooner use biodiesel but it's not so easy to find in my neck of the woods and I don't have the space to make it myself.
Is old oil from KFC etc suitable once filtered?
Dave.
- great way to encourage alternative/greener fuel.]
In the long long term a move to a sustainable and renewable energy resource in place of non renewable petroleum is a good thing, however, in the medium long -term it is not likely to be.
Much more land will be needed to produce the biofuel and the businesses producing it will go for the cheapest options and this may be at the expense of the wilderness.
Consider this. Malaysia and Indonesia are looking at Bio-diesel from palm oil. the Indonesian solution (with mainland Chinese investment) is to log the Borneo rainforest in a band across the whole of Borneo from the Java Sea to the Celebes Sea to plant oil palm - the very area where the WWF are trying to set up the Heart of Borneo conservation area.
It is our consumption pattern that is the problem and it won't go away by changing the source of the energy. Nuclear or bio there will be new problems created.
Not to say that you should not run your 4x4 on chippie oil!
Ogri the trog
09-06-2006, 02:00
Is old oil from KFC etc suitable once filtered?
Dave.
It needs a little more than just filtering, but in essence - yes :cool:
There are plenty of websites dedicated to the methods used in producing Bio-diesel.
Oh, for those thinking about running vans on veggie oil, its worth mentioning that you can heat your house with waste oil..
You can turn this phrase around as well :cool: :rolleyes: ;)
ATB
Ogri the trog
Culicoidis
05-07-2006, 20:11
I have used a 50/50 mix, SVO/deisel, in my isuzu with no problems.
After all the original engine designed by Herr Deisel was built to run on peanut oil.
demographic
05-07-2006, 22:45
You can turn this phrase around as well :cool: :rolleyes: ;)
ATB
Ogri the trog
I heard that also.
Still no problems with either vehicle - even the Lucas injector on the LR is fine. But what I do do if for every 3 tanks of 50:50 mix I run it into the red them run 1/4 or more of 100% just to lubricate and clear the injector.
Even come to an arrange ment with the local - I get their oil and the money I save on diesel I spend on beer. That is what I call a win, win (win I suppose as the environment benifits as well) situation.
Minotaur
06-07-2006, 17:42
In the long long term a move to a sustainable and renewable energy resource in place of non renewable petroleum is a good thing, however, in the medium long -term it is not likely to be.
Much more land will be needed to produce the biofuel and the businesses producing it will go for the cheapest options and this may be at the expense of the wilderness.
Consider this. Malaysia and Indonesia are looking at Bio-diesel from palm oil. the Indonesian solution (with mainland Chinese investment) is to log the Borneo rainforest in a band across the whole of Borneo from the Java Sea to the Celebes Sea to plant oil palm - the very area where the WWF are trying to set up the Heart of Borneo conservation area.
It is our consumption pattern that is the problem and it won't go away by changing the source of the energy. Nuclear or bio there will be new problems created.
Not to say that you should not run your 4x4 on chippie oil!
In the western world where we eat so much fried rubbish and pay farmers to not grow things, you would have thought someone would see the potental.
The other thing about true veg diesel is it is almost emission free.
Some of you guys are talking about buying a big load of vegetable oil from a supermarket, or wholesale, and pouring that straight into your tanks (with the same amount of "dinofuel" :lmao: ) and then driving around on this.
Using pure veg oil is not that simple. For a start used oil for some reason works better. You also need to process it by adding certain chemicals.
No engine modifications?
If you have an older diesel, not to the engine, no. A lot of the sites do recomend a fuel pre heating system. There are a couple of sites no that list what vehicles to avoid but basically any thing with engine management will give you trouble going over to 100% but should be fine up to 25%
No performance problems?
It seems to actually be better for the engine, weirdly. Some people have reported using slightly more fuel.
How much cheaper is it?
If you get the oil for nothing, set up costs, vehicle mods if needed, additives, and duty, so it can work out for cheap, when you consider between 0.94 and £1.04 a litre at the moment
Mmmmm, those wishing to just pour it straight into their tanks better had not own something with a Lucas injectors...
The old diesels, espically work horses(Landy's) should give no one trouble. You want a vehicle you can repair yourself. Anything that has management, seems to give people headaches.
if you are mixing with diesel you do not need to process - just filter well is used oil.
The processing is to transestrify the oil to produce biodiesel.
just a quick up date.
The Astra has now done 5000 miles or more on veg oil / diesel mix - upto 80% wvo over summer.
No problems so far and it does run quieter on veg. Every 4th or so fill up I run on 100% diese l for 1/4 tank or so jjust to clean the injector pump.
The landy has done nowhere that milage and on a max 50% wvo (due to lucas pump) but is running fine. I run for 1/4 of normal diesel every so often.
probably the used veg oil contains less water (compare boiling points of water and oil) ...
make sure to have the fastfood crude oil really well filtered prior to filling that into your vehicle: fish´n chips in the fuel filter for sure will stop you when you´d need it the least
Yes, no probs. with old VW (swirl chamber) and Merc (pre chamber) and many other old style engines (Perkins, Renault, Volvo, MAN M-ball etc.): 40% veg oil mixed into standard diesel during winter, in summertime up to 60% veg oil
OR
a second fuel tank for pure veg oil with preheating system (heat exchanger in tank connected to engine cooling system) - using conventional diesel for the heating up process (while you´re driving)
Small direct injection engines might be a bit nervous with all the electronics in them