View Full Version : Oh dear, poor Roe Deer.
Lunchtime local tv newsclip, indicates poachers may be responsible for the killing of deer, at two locations near the coastal resort of Bridlington.
The clip did not say how the animals were killed, but one beast was de-capitated , de-hoofed and left in a plastic bag, in a stream.
Police seemed to indicate that firearms were used and are appealing for information..
This incident, is real bads news. :(
In disgust......
Ceeg
capacious
08-03-2006, 13:48
Some people should not be allowed to live. Simple as. That is not even poaching - to kill a deer and leave it's mutilated body is someting there isn't a word strong enough to describe. Utterly sickening dosn't even come close. Sometimes I think that a totalitarian state would be a good thing - it's the only way people like this can be removed from society.
Bring on the sterilisation, and stop the filthy mongrels from breeding.
Yeah, I agree. This completely abhorrent. :(
I can't abide what seems on the face of it to be senseless trophy killing. I believe that if you are so inclined to kill an animal then you are obliged to use as much of it as possible and not to waste it in this despicable way.
Disgusting. I hope they catch the beggars.
I wonder if the beast was left in the stream to keep it cool until such time as poachers could recover it.
NickBristol
08-03-2006, 16:57
I wonder if the beast was left in the stream to keep it cool until such time as poachers could recover it.
That was one of my first thoughts too, but why decapitate it and dehoof it first? It couldn't take much more time than wrapping, securing and dragging it to a river to fully butcher it.
It seems there is something more than poaching involved here, and it wouldn't much suprise me if it was someone acting out some twisted holywood fantasy of what they imagined a gangland killing to be. Hopefully the deer wasn't a practice run before moving up a level to some poor innocent.
Whatever the truth, the one certainty is that this is going to leave the authorities and the public a negative impression about the overwhelming majority of people who live in, work in and enjoy the countryside responsibly.
I dunno, but to gralloch it and take the head and legs off wouldn't take much time and leave a carcass small enough to be bagged and hidden, thereby allowing them to recover it when safer.
Roe isn't exactly a large beast but presumably they didn't want lifted with anything on them.
Whatever the truth, the one certainty is that this is going to leave the authorities and the public a negative impression about the overwhelming majority of people who live in, work in and enjoy the countryside responsibly.
Yeah, Nick.
Totally agree with this and would like to see something to counteract this, flagged large! .
Ceeg
I certainly don't condone what's been done, but is it really going to leave a negative impression? I think most people are sensible enough to realise that a few mindless things like this don't necessarily translate to the whole hunting community.
I also don't understand why it automatically requires sterilisation etc of the culprits.
Woods Wanderer
08-03-2006, 18:06
bring back the noose why should the tax payer pay to keep these people alive in prison (mod let me know if this message is against the rules)
See? There we go again. I really don't understand why one dead deer means that the bad guys should be hung, drawn, quartered and generally given a very bad time. What's wrong with a bit of a telling off?
demographic
08-03-2006, 18:39
bring back the noose why should the tax payer pay to keep these people alive in prison (mod let me know if this message is against the rules)
Errrrr, although I don't really condone trophy killing I think that putting the culprits to death for it "may just" be a tad harsh ;)
OK guys, calm down. What happened was wrong and I hope they catch them but this isn’t the place to discuss the hanging of people, capital punishment and other very strong statements. None of are happy with reading about these things but some of the conversation that’s gone on afterwards is over the top.
Keep it calm.
QUOTE [Errrrr, although I don't really condone trophy killing I think that putting the culprits to death for it "may just" be a tad harsh]
I agree. Killing for what seems such a pathetic reason, trophy parts, is gruesome, but humans have hunted for millenia. Our present society finds much of that type of behaviour repugant but still refrains from executing even those who murder humans.
On a more worrying note, there is considerable evidence that those abuse and assault animals are more likely to do so to children, too.
The real problem is that the GBP get two very different things muddled; hunting for food or sport, and abuse of animals and children.
The question we ought to be asking is, I suspect, about how can our society be better informed about our natural world, it's wildlife and our place within it. A greater awareness and rational understanding of the production methods of the food we eat would help too.
Cheers,
Toddy
monkey_pork
08-03-2006, 19:56
[...]
Hopefully the deer wasn't a practice run before moving up a level to some poor innocent.
[...]
Entirely mindful of the fact that not everyone will agree, and that this is wholly subjective, but I think that the death of a poor innocent has already happened.
:(
No matter where you go in the UK theres always someone who takes sadistic pleasure in this type of activity. Being out and about in the countryside myself see similiar things done to our wildlfe quite a lot, usually rabbits and squirrels, and no matter what your standpoint, hunter or hugger, it just shows the darker side of our very fragile society.
He!!s Bells, this kind of thing is always going to be an emotive issue. I hadn,t considered all the feelings of others.
I just felt disgusted with it, thats all, for reasons I just find hard to give name to.
,Wish I,d not raised it.
Ploddy , ell. :(
Ceeg
Your always going to get a response on this platform because which ever way you look at it, we're all here because we love being out amongst the wild things, wether we fully engage with it as hunters, conservators or just watchers. I wouldn't worry, it's important to know whats going on, we can all look after our own patch then, yeah :)
Mark
Roving Rich
08-03-2006, 21:46
Yup, its certainly a shame to waist an innocent life.
As lurch said tho, if I was dealing with a deer, then i would gut and probably skin it at which point i'd remove the head and feet at the ankle. Then joint it up and bag it for the freezer.
If it was a carcass bagged in a stream to keep cool, they were halfway there.
Deer are heavy to carry over a distance, so i assume they would come back for it, with a vehicle parked closer. A deer would provide about a months meat for a family assuming that is why they were poaching it.
Just a different way of looking at it. Without the emotional responce. I have known poachers, not barbarians, just putting food on the table from the surrounding coutryside. This is the one for the pot poacher. not the sort in it for profit or carnage.
just my 2ps worth
Rich
C_Claycomb
08-03-2006, 22:15
Woods Wanderer, yeah, I think you were a bit over the top there. If I had seen your post first I probably would have removed it.
Having read through all this I can't see what all the fuss is about, beyond poaching deer, and the use of a firearm where you have no permission, being illegal.
Based on the tiny amount of information posted here, it is impossible to tell whether the deer was killed for hooves and antlers, but a Roe has very little of either, and I cannot think of a single reason to bag the animal unless you planned to return for the meat.
Some of you need to take a step back and a deep breath before you get all worked up based on so little information. Save your indignation and outrage for news articles about mutilated horses or something. There is nothing in Seagull's post to suggest that this was any more cruel (and it was possibly less so) than a motorist hitting a deer and having it run off with a smashed leg.
High emotion and hot words are how we end up with ever more repressive and restrictive laws. It doesn't mean that anything becomes any more just! :nono:
Willowbark
09-03-2006, 09:45
On Exmoor I have found the fore legs of red deer that poachers have left behind. I guess that removing excess weight seems like a good idea if you're carrying a heavy carcass any distance. I tend to agree with the "come back for it later" idea.
I wonder if the beast was left in the stream to keep it cool until such time as poachers could recover it.
I hadn't thought of it this way, if it was intended to be eaten then 'fair game'....but I still think its a bit of a bad show potentially polluting the water ways (or the carcass for that matter) like this, which was my original concern.
East Yorkshire has had a fair spell of cold weather of late, alot of snow in that neck of the woods, so I wouldn't have thought it would been needed to kept in the water? or is that to ward the bugs off too?
Hi, Gang.
I looked up a newspaper, for that area and it was a little more informative than the newsclip.
Seems the incidents actually happened last month.
That it didnt appear on tele, til yesterday, may be that YTV was looking for a bit of padding.
Appears that both beasts had been skinned and partly butchered. Only one of ,em was found in a stream.
Newspaper indicates that it was probably the work of folk who were after the meat.
Clearly, they didnt get most of it.
Well, I reckon that this sort of thing happens all the time, rustling and whatnot.
Must be a nightmare for wardens and keepers, for , among other things, the poss of coming to personal harm, from these people, its always there, aint it.
Ceeg
capacious
09-03-2006, 11:36
I realise, reading some of the posts now, that myself and others may have over reacted a little, but in this society in is understandable why.
I have been lucky enough to witness the brutal nature of humans - I saw a motorist knock a cyclist off their bike, and then turn around to try and run them over again. All because 'cyclists shouldn't be allowed on the road'. My Step-Mother has caught paedophiles carrying photographs (not computer print outs, actual photographs) at her work (she is Airport Security in Manchester).
So when I read something like that I immediately, and for good reason, expect the worse. I know very little about hunting any further than shooting pigeons, and it did not occur to me that the poacher was saving the carcass for later.
My 'sterilistion' comment applies to all the people that commit mindless barbarism - people like Ian Huntley, or the Yorkshire Ripper, or the MILLIONS of murderers, rapists and peodophiles who never get caught. In Kentucky, rapists actually have a choice of sentence - life behind bars, or castration - a policy which, in my opinion, should be adopted world wide.
People who mutilate animals are very often just one step away from moving on to people, usually children. In a society whose laws actually protect people like the aforementioned, we can not expect people like that to ever disappear until there is a zero tolerance policy adopted.
Just because in this case, it may or may not have been a poacher putting food on the table, the mutilation of animals for 'pleasure' does occur (I remember a particularly sickening incident involving some teenagers playing football with a puppy not very far from where I live) and it is an issue that needs to be addressed, not ignored.
MODS/ADMIN: I know my comments will offend some people, but I felt there were questions raised by others in this thread that had to be answered. If you want to remove this post then I won't complain, but like I said, I felt my reaction, and comments, needed to be explained.
After the shot is taken and the animal is comfirmed dead the first priority is to grallock the carcass and cool it, we spread the chest cavity open and hang the carcass in a tree and retrieve it later, if the deer is to be carried and not dragged we sometimes remove the legs below the knee, the head and neck may also be removed but i usually tie this to the front legs. if you walk through the woods and saw a deer or 2 hanging from a tree you might jump to the wrong conclusion, it does not matter whether the deer was poached or not, that is a matter for the law, what we have here is people drawing conclusions from what they see and whether you have an understanding of hunting or carcass preperation it is quite easy to draw the wrong conclusion.
for example
the deer may be poached and waiting to be picked up.
The deer may have been shot out of season and the stalker wants to keep it quite, remove the head grallock the beast and to the inexperienced its just another dead deer
the shot deer may have been an excellent trophy for which a charge of hundreds of pounds would have to paid, this could have been a genuine mistake, again get rid of the evidence and no one is the wiser.
poacher or hunter are different sides of the same coin and there are good and bad in both, I only hope the the deer was shot humainly and the carcass was grallocked and cleaned correctly for who knows hunter or poacher it's meat might end up on your table
Ian
Cheers for explaining that Ian, very informative.
capacious
09-03-2006, 12:29
Thanks Ian, rep point coming your way.
Klenchblaize
09-03-2006, 13:38
Not that many years ago it was common prcatice, at least in the Highlands, to simply cast the legs and heads of deer onto any covenient bit of ground. Today only the stomach is left on the hill to be disposed of by carrion. This you can be assured the only method of carcass recovery/handling to be employed by Forestry Commission Rangers and indeed any responsible stalker.
All this to hopefully suggest that this unfortunate discovery will most certainly not have resulted from the actions of an experienced/committed deerstalker who would be at pains, I suggest, to demonstrate his/her understanding of "Best Practice" as defined by, to name but one organisation, The Bristish Deer Society.
In all the years I have shot deer, foxes and indeed thousands of rabbits I have never once knowingly left a carcass to rot in either wood or pasture and to then later be found by the landowner or member of the public. The reasoning was not entirely to do with making use of the carcass and /or pelt (just how much rabbit can one eat!) but rather through my desire to preserve the privilege extened to me to hunt with a r__le in the first place. Having a member of the public stumble across a fox that has been hit with a .220 Swift, even when downed at 500 yards, is guaranteed to get you noticed - the very opposite to what I have striven to achieve over the last 30 years of hunting. I think the comments here demostrate that to leave the woods as we find them, in respect of any activity, is the only way to go. What the public can't see they will usually not get upset about.
How easily then are all responsible hunters and indeed bushcrafters tarred with the same brush by discoveries such a this and campfire-damaged public woodland. :(
Cheers
While I do not agree with everything that has been said here, on both sides of the debate, I think there has been some excellent points that have been made. As ever, I have learned more from listening and reading than I have done by talking and writing. It has been said many times before and doubtless it will be echoed in the future that this site is a fantastic resource for learning and, dare I be pompus, enlightment.
pierre girard
09-03-2006, 15:33
I hadn't thought of it this way, if it was intended to be eaten then 'fair game'....but I still think its a bit of a bad show potentially polluting the water ways (or the carcass for that matter) like this, which was my original concern.
East Yorkshire has had a fair spell of cold weather of late, alot of snow in that neck of the woods, so I wouldn't have thought it would been needed to kept in the water? or is that to ward the bugs off too?
No reason to keep it in the water, but if the poacher wasn't real familair with what they were doing - likely enough. I tend to think the use of plastic leads to the possiblity of an intention to return for the meat.
If they're just after meat - why not watch for roadkill? I'm not sure what it's like there, but I could easily get a deer a day on my way to work. I understand that is still illeagle there, but certainly much less likely to get everyone up in arms.
PG
All this to hopefully suggest that this unfortunate discovery will most certainly not have resulted from the actions of an experienced/committed deerstalker who would be at pains, I suggest, to demonstrate his/her understanding of "Best Practice" as defined by, to name but one organisation, The Bristish Deer Society.
How easily then are all responsible hunters and indeed bushcrafters tarred with the same brush by discoveries such a this and campfire-damaged public woodland. :(
Cheers
Very well put..
No reason to keep it in the water, but if the poacher wasn't real familair with what they were doing - likely enough. I tend to think the use of plastic leads to the possiblity of an intention to return for the meat.
If they're just after meat - why not watch for roadkill? I'm not sure what it's like there, but I could easily get a deer a day on my way to work. I understand that is still illeagle there, but certainly much less likely to get everyone up in arms.
PG
Over here, in and around my way, your a lot more likely to get a rabbit or pheasant road kill than a deer...and of course you have to beat all the other carnivores & parasites to it too!
Quite right about the plastic bag. I thought putting it in water was an odd move though.