Best Deer Rifles

[pierre girard]

If you don't like guns - this would be the time to go to another thread.

I've owned an awful lot of deer rifles. Two of them really stand out - not because they were high tech, or even powerful, but mostly because they were very good at getting deer.

The first was a 30/40 Krag, the gun used by the US military during the Spanish American War.

When I was 12, I felt the need to have my own deer rifle. I took my trapline money, and my paper route money, and went down to Finnila's Hardware. I was frequently in the place. It was where I sold my furs, bought my traps, and where I'd bought several .22 rifles. Most of the deer rifles were out of my price range, but there was one old rifle hanging on the wall with a tag that said $15.00. Finnila said it had been his rifle for many years, but it no longer shot straight. He said he'd had new sights put on, but it didn't help. Why I wanted a rifle that didn't shoot straight - I have no idea. I guess it was the one I could afford.

I bought the rifle, and shot it several times. I noticed it shot way to the right of where I was aiming, but that it always hit in the same place. I took it to the gunsmith in town and he said the sights were put on wrong. He put on new sights and charged me ten dollars. I said that was too much, and he charged me seven dollars. The rifle shot straight on.

I hunted with this rifle until I was in my 20s and got many deer. Then I traded it in on a new rifle that was the unluckiest gun I've ever owned. I have it yet, and I think I've shot maybe one deer with it. I've wished many times for that old 30/40 Krag.

My other good deer rifle I inherited from my grandfather. It is a 1904 30/30 Winchester with a long octogon barrel. The rifle is better at hunting than I am. I've never failed to put down a deer with it, once I had the deer in my sights. My grandfather shot 14 moose and one caribou with this rifle - and countless deer. I've started the morning with newer, more powerful, guns - missed a deer - gone home and got the 30/30 and ended up getting a deer.

It is kind of a family heirloom. It was my great grandfather's gun originally. He gave it to my grandfather. When grandfather was courting grandmother, he didn't have money for a ring, so he carved her name (in large letters) in the stock. My grandmother died many years ago, but the gun is still named "Esther." It is the only item specifically mentioned in my will, and will go to my eldest son - who is named for his grandfather.

PG

[Stonedog]

Pierre,

My grandaddy and daddy hunted for a long, long time with a 30/30....great arm for the under brush in Kentucky.....

When I was 12 I got my first 30/30...two years later my daddy and I both went to the .270.......the .270 will let us make longer (300-400 yard) shots but is still heavy enuff to handle the under brush....

Now I see a disturbing trend around here....folks using 300 Mags or larger calibers to hunt the Whitetail deer....since we don't have bears or any other larger predators here it leaves me wondering....why do they need such large powerful arms?? Unless they are all planning to go out West to hunt Wapiti, bears or other larger potentially dangerous game.....and only want to buy a single arm...

I have never felt under armed with a .270....shot placement is key no matter what...I rarely hunt with an arm but two or three times a year any more...I (98% of the time) go with my longbow and wooden arrows for anything from Squirrels to deer....and turkey this year...since I can carry a sidearm, I do, in case I bump into unfriendly two legged critters...and it can happen with the proliferation of illegal marijuana fields in KY

For me its a .270....I have read of a fella killing moose on a regular basis with a .270.....I also would have no qualms hunting with with a longbow...

[Klenchblaize]

I would love to comment but as your opening statment suggets this may not even be an acceptable Forum for such debate. I know the thread is specific and does not invite political debate about this most useful bit of kit (my opion only of course) but this is how I read the site's policy. I may be wrong though??

I believe it is the mere use of those words beginning with "G" and "R" that is a problem when attepting to presrve the sites's status as an educational facility. Sad indeed but such is life in this increasingly intolerant world. :banghead:

Cheers

K

[Doc]

I know that too many references to launching machinery for lead projectiles can cause some filters to block the site to some users.

The .270 seems to be the preferred choice for red deer around my neck of the woods. It has not always been the case. My father in law's deer ri***, was a Parker Hale sporter - apparantly Parker Hale bought up old Lee Enfield .303s and fitted them with a sporter style stock for deer stalking.

[pierre girard]

I know that too many references to launching machinery for lead projectiles can cause some filters to block the site to some users.

.

Hmmm :confused:

Will keep that in mind.

PG

[Abbe Osram]

Hmmm :confused:

Will keep that in mind.

PG

He means that if we write here about weapons, ammos etc etc. some of the robots pick up these words and block some of our BCUK members to come back here to the forum. Families, Schools or Working places might use filters as a blocker for some words like, weapons and stuff.

I got a Thread closed because of the same problem. I asked about which would be the right weapon to use if I want to hunt brown bears, we talked so much about the thing and the Thread got bigger and bigger that it got closed down in the end.

cheers
Abbe

[Lurch]

Perhaps we should have suitable codewords for gnus?

[directdrive]

The .30-40 Krag is probably one of the finest military arms ever produced from the manufacturing/machining standpoint. I wish some company would reproduce them. It is amazing how such ri***s have gained monetary value. When I was a young man, I used to purchase 1903 Springfields, M-98 Mausers, the venerable .303 British Enfield and others still in their packing paper and cosmoline. All were purchased for a pittance. I'd often re-stock, rebarrel, jewel the bolts, weld on new bolt handles and put on new sights on these fi*****s and then re-sell them.
The .30-30 is likely responsible for taking more deer in the U.S. than any other cartridge. It works as well today as it did 100 years ago. I like the fact that the bul**t usually expends its energy on the inside of game rather than going all the way through like a freight train and expending energy outside.

Cheers...
Bruce

[Woods Wanderer]

man you lot dont know how jelous i am i wish i could live in a place that values freedom how would i got about moving to america or canada i love the british countryside but when all thats legal is to walk in designated areas and play with airg#ns it gets to be a bit opressive and hunting with a bow would make me have a heart attack exitment can a foriner bowhunt in america

[Keith_Beef]

man you lot dont know how jelous i am i wish i could live in a place that values freedom how would i got about moving to america or canada i love the british countryside but when all thats legal is to walk in designated areas and play with airg#ns it gets to be a bit opressive and hunting with a bow would make me have a heart attack exitment can a foriner bowhunt in america

For an example of hunting laws and regulations, try this:
http://www.state.nj.us/dep/fgw/njregs.htm

You should be able to dig up what you need to know.

I've only looked at fishing licenses for now; I know that once I've been a NJ resident for six months, I can get a fishing license at the resident's fee. Before then, I'd have to pay the higher "tourist's fee". I imagine that hunting permits have two price tags, too.

This is in addition to any state or federal laws that might relate to the equipment used for hunting.

K.

[Stonedog]

Gents-

In Kentucky, where I live anyone can hunt....if you are a non-resident and wish to only hunt small game....you can buy a 5 day small game permit for 40$. Large game (deer and turkeys) will would have to buy a non resident permit for 150$ plus the necessary game tags.....so that would run you an extra 25$ for deer and another 25$ for turkeys.

I can also hunt small game, large game, birds, varmits and fish all with a bow....rarely with an arm anymore.....

I just enjoy the challenge and silence that a bows offers....

[hollowdweller]

Somebody mentioned a newspaper route. I used mine to buy a .35 Remington when I was 15 (1975) I still have it and use it. However last year I got a Ruger 77 RSI in .243. I took it out but didn't see anything.

I hunt on my own land, I own 85 acres and then there is another 90 beside me I have permission to hunt on but never have really.

Here as long as you are hunting on your own property you don't have to buy a hunting license, so my hunting only costs me the vacation from work and the bullets.

It is really cool to spend the whole week of gun season in my woods. Although I hike often there is something about setting in one place that really makes you more aware of the whole scene. I have lived here 19 years and it is paid off thank God and when you have lived somewhere that long (I never had before) you can actually take stock of how much bigger the trees are than even 10 years ago. I had never noticed that before.

:D

[C_Claycomb]

In Kentucky, where I live anyone can hunt....

However, if you were born after the mid 70s (can't remember exactly which year), you need a Hunter Education Card. According to the fish and game dept it matters not where you come from. I had a hell of a time getting the card, had to have a series of videos mailed from the US. Normally there are class room sessions held in various counties, but none coincided with my trip, luckily a friend knew a local instructor and I effectively got a one-on-one session.

The questions were a load of rubbish mostly. Seems they are aimed at early teenagers who have never hunted before. Fish and Game didn't have an answer for me when I asked what the normal route was for visiters wanting to hunt. Hunting licenses are also a bit weird if you are not American. If I didn't have a Social Security number I couldn't have bought even a non-resident small game licence.

Sorry for being off topic, but I reckon this is a more interesting discussion than the perenial "which deer rifle is better". The question of calibre, make, model, sights and so on has been done to death in many articles and hunting forums anyway. I don't know exactly how the filters in offices and schools work, but I have been told by several people I trust that they do indeed key in on fire-arm threads. If this thread carries on along its initial lines it is bound to get locked for that reason.

[elma]

Which deer rifle is best?
So long as your shooting a legal calibre, the best rifle, calibre, scope, is the one that works best for you. If you are confident you can place the shot and humainly dispatch your prey every time at a distance you are comfortable with, then that is the rifle for you, it does'nt matter what anyone else shoots

Good hunting

Ian

[Klenchblaize]

Sorry for being off topic, but I reckon this is a more interesting discussion than the perenial "which deer rifle is better". The question of calibre, make, model, sights and so on has been done to death in many articles and hunting forums anyway. I don't know exactly how the filters in offices and schools work, but I have been told by several people I trust that they do indeed key in on fire-arm threads. If this thread carries on along its initial lines it is bound to get locked for that reason.


Whilst I accept there are far more interesting and indeed pressing things to discuss than which r____ combination is best etc, the sad truth is that any discussion that touches on either g___s and/or hunting is pretty much doomed from the start upon my reading of how we have allowed ourselves to be intimidated by certain forces. However, as I have acknowleged under seperate cover, the owner of this site has the right to choose how the site operates and if we don't like it that's just tough. Hence my statement at the beginning of this thread and as someone who fell foul of the site's policy when asking a similar question last year.

Clearly I wish this were not the case but having put my toys back in the pram I can now move on and live with this particular disapointment. In all honesty though I really do still wonder just how long it will be before a similar problem, in respect of honest debate, will be encountred with a thread that mentions "knives"? :Thinkingo

Cheers

[Doc]

Would it be possible/desirable to make the fair game forum optional, so that it only appeared to those who have 'opted in' - a bit like the full members forum, which is not visible to non-full members? Would that prevent the filters from picking up on words like r*fle?

I don't know if it would work in practice though.

[pierre girard]

The .30-40 Krag is probably one of the finest military arms ever produced from the manufacturing/machining standpoint. I wish some company would reproduce them. It is amazing how such ri***s have gained monetary value. When I was a young man, I used to purchase 1903 Springfields, M-98 Mausers, the venerable .303 British Enfield and others still in their packing paper and cosmoline.

Cheers...
Bruce

Did the same. $12 for a Springfield 03, $8 for a Brit Enfield. They'd come in 50 gallon drums, full of cosmoline - no paper that I recall.

PG

Chris said:

"Sorry for being off topic, but I reckon this is a more interesting discussion than the perenial "which deer rifle is better". The question of calibre, make, model, sights and so on has been done to death in many articles and hunting forums anyway. I don't know exactly how the filters in offices and schools work, but I have been told by several people I trust that they do indeed key in on fire-arm threads. If this thread carries on along its initial lines it is bound to get locked for that reason."
*********************
It was not my intention to advise anyone as to the best firelock for hunting, simply to relay, with some nostalgia, the tale of two old bushcraft tools which have worked very well for me, over the years, and to which I am somewhat attached. I have no doubt there could be much argument as to which firelocks work best, for hunting, but that was not my aim (no pun intended).

PG

[Stuart]

I have acknowleged under seperate cover, the owner of this site has the right to choose how the site operates and if we don't like it that's just tough.

you make it sound like it is the forum owners personal choice that the site discourages threads on firearms, that’s a very simplistic view of the situation.

Unfortunately the general populace of the UK frowns on firearms and refuses to veiw them as tools, considering them as nothing more than weapons.

Which is why our firearms laws in the UK are the strictest in the world and why filtering software in UK business and educational establishments will block any website which makes to many references to firearms.

if anyone here feels that BCUK should make a stand against the views of the ignorant masses and in doing so get the site banned from every business and educational establishment in the country, perhaps you would lose your enthusiasm for the idea if it was your job to explain to all the people who access BCUK thought these means why they cant visit any more because we are busy "championing the right to own firearms"

The moderators of BCUK do not have any personal feelings against firearms, amongst the staff here we have deer stalkers, game keepers and even an ex-sniper

Even myself being responsible for delivering most of the warnings on the forum about this matter, I hunt 5 days a weeks though admittedly I do so with a hawk rather than a rifle and I worry about the efforts being made to ban hunting with hawks

Whenever I am in Borneo with the Iban I make great efforts to go hunting Boar with spears!!!! I would be publicly stoned if I tried that here in the UK.

So please keep in mind that BCUK are not anti-firearm and certainly not anti-hunting, the only reason we discourage posts on firearms is to keep the site available to access for as many people as possible



(for those members who live outside the United Kingdom who might not understand the level of censorship these sofware filters operate under in the UK, have a look at this site www.kifaru.net it is a company that sells backpacks and tipis, yet the few very small mentions of rifles which appear in the site have resulted in it being banned by the filters of my local collage)

[elma]

Stuart is right, my last post on this thread flagged up a warning to our IT manager, luckily he's understanding and placed the site on the allowed list :D
My boss is'nt as understanding and gave me a b#####king for getting caught :(

Ian

[Swampy Matt]

I've just been chatting to three mates of mine, all IT managers - two for large companies, One for an educational facility.

The two company IT managers said that they would have to ban this site at there place of work as its a 'chat site'. The official line being "Chat on your own time - not on company time, we pay you to work" :nono:
They said that the site could be about cross stitch and flower arranging rather than g___s and knives, but as a chat forum it would still get banned. :eek:

The IT guy at the Educational Facility said that even if the filters blocked it, they could and would change it to an 'allowed site' as it has an obvious educational content.

All three thought that their policies were representative of businesses and schools throughout the UK.

So it would seem that excessive mentioning of r*fl*s, g*ns and f*r**rms may not have much effect with regards to filters anyway.

[scruff]

I find all these articles on hunting very interesting as its something I've not yet had chance to do.

Clearly the thread was started as an interesting note and IMHO has been very informative so far and not just from the original topics point of view.

:grouphug:

[Klenchblaize]

you make it sound like it is the forum owners personal choice that the site discourages threads on firearms, that’s a very simplistic view of the situation.

Unfortunately the general populace of the UK frowns on firearms and refuses to veiw them as tools, considering them as nothing more than weapons.

Which is why our firearms laws in the UK are the strictest in the world and why filtering software in UK business and educational establishments will block any website which makes to many references to firearms.

if anyone here feels that BCUK should make a stand against the views of the ignorant masses and in doing so get the site banned from every business and educational establishment in the country, perhaps you would lose your enthusiasm for the idea if it was your job to explain to all the people who access BCUK thought these means why they cant visit any more because we are busy "championing the right to own firearms"

The moderators of BCUK do not have any personal feelings against firearms, amongst the staff here we have deer stalkers, game keepers and even an ex-sniper

Even myself being responsible for delivering most of the warnings on the forum about this matter, I hunt 5 days a weeks though admittedly I do so with a hawk rather than a rifle and I worry about the efforts being made to ban hunting with hawks

Whenever I am in Borneo with the Iban I make great efforts to go hunting Boar with spears!!!! I would be publicly stoned if I tried that here in the UK.

So please keep in mind that BCUK are not anti-firearm and certainly not anti-hunting, the only reason we discourage posts on firearms is to keep the site available to access for as many people as possible



(for those members who live outside the United Kingdom who might not understand the level of censorship these sofware filters operate under in the UK, have a look at this site www.kifaru.net it is a company that sells backpacks and tipis, yet the few very small mentions of rifles which appear in the site have resulted in it being banned by the filters of my local collage)


Stuart

This may have been for the benefit of all BCUK readers but I really feel you could have spared me the lecture or at least the suggestion that I consider the policy of discouraging firearms debate to be the "forum owners personal choice". The latter is frankly out of order. If you had studied my first reply to this thread you would have seen that I attempted to make clear my understanding of how the site needs to be careful so as to preserve its status as an eduational facility for all, and hence refrained from comment as to which r____ was best. This the action of someone who has FULLY taken on board what Tony had to say ("You abide by the rules and guidence or you leave, its up to you") when pulling the plug on the last firearms thread started in error by me. In short I have aknowleged my mistake and, whilst clearly concerned that we are so easily subjected to such censorship, have accepted the dicussion limitations at BCUK for the reasons you again state. This does not strike me as the actions of someone who feels BCUK should be at the forefront of any "right to own arms" campain as is strongly suggested in your cautionary note.

My closing comment about knives seeks to suggest that the day may not be too far away when a similar BCUK policy regarding discusion/mention of knives will have to be put in place due to amended "software filters" and I defy anyone to state with authority this will not prove necessary. There is a UK knife amnesty due any day now and we can expect much debate about what should be done to curtail their use as "weapons". I doubt a similar airing will be given to their legitimate use as "tools".

On a lighter note I don't think you would be stoned for spearing boar so long as you made the weapon in a bushcraft kind of way and of non endangered timber! :lmao:

[Stonedog]

While I think this site has a lot of great information....I think I am going to lurk rather than post...

Simply, growing up in a rural state like Kentucky, with a rich and ongoing hunting and arm culture I simply cannot relate to many (not all) european countries and their policies concerning arms....

In England its illegal to hunt with a bow for God's sake! The very weapon that made England, England....without the yeoman archer, world geography may have ended up a bit different....

Ya'll take care....I am going to still read all the great, free information on here...just will stay a lurker is all....

[Lurch]

Klench mate, as a third party I don't feel Stuart was having a pop at you directly.
I appreciate you might be feeling a little sensitive to the matter though, as I was following the other thread myself.

Actually I'm in a not too disimilar position to you over at British Blades over a thread I won't go into the details of but isn't 1000 miles from this. I spat my dummy and declared (to myself) that I wouldn't return. I hope you won't do the same.
;)

[Woods Wanderer]

stone dog if you ever want some free labour for food a roof and hunting rights hint hint ;)

[pierre girard]

stone dog if you ever want some free labour for food a roof and hunting rights hint hint ;)

I've got a couple things need doing - a bunkhouse to live in, and believe me - no one around here would have the foggiest idea what you were talking about if you mentioned "hunting rights." :lmao:

Where I live, All the land to the north of us is county land and is open for hunting. All the land along the river is state land and is open for hunting, most of the rest of the land around belongs to Minnesota Power and Light, and is open for hunting.

The land along the lake is mostly privately owned, and permission would be required to hunt, but I've never bothered to ask as there is so many other places to hunt - and these are just the places you can walk to.

State licenses are required - except for squirrels and varmints.

Trouble is, this is not the type of hunting where you go out and some one beats up a pheasent for you. To get grouse, I sometimes put on 20 miles a day of walking - through thick brush.

PG

[Doc]

That is the difference between the US and the UK. The only 'public' hunting land in the UK is in Scotland, on the foreshore. This land is mostly held by the Crown estate and there is a public right to recreation, which includes shooting wildfowl in season.

Sometimes I look at my hobbies/interests and wish I lived in North America:

Bushcraft (much more opportunity)
Canoeing (ditto. Although I thank my luck stars that in Scotland I can canoe virtually everywhere - in England 98% of inland water is off limits!)
Gold panning (good opportunities in Scotland, though landowner consent can sometimes be difficult)
Archery (bowhunting illegal in the UK)
Shooting (lots of red tape/certificates/inspections, currently only have a shotg*n -slightly less hassle- and licence-free air r**les)
Wildfowling (this might be better, or at least, as good, here in Scotland)
Ham radio (UK allows me 400watts, in the US, 1 kilowatt!!!)
Fishing (trout fishing is cheap and easily obtained in Scotland, but I bet salmon fishing is more accessible/cheaper in Canada etc. Having said that a years salmon fishing can be had for under a hundred quid in some areas.)

[Keith_Beef]

Gold panning (good opportunities in Scotland, though landowner consent can sometimes be difficult)

Closer to home, the South West of France is known for gold panning.
http://www.french-property.com/properties/property_detail/cid/19351/pid/150716/ifp/1/tid/2

The International Gold Panning Comptition was held in Jumilhac a few years ago.

K.

[directdrive]

My closing comment about knives seeks to suggest that the day may not be too far away when a similar BCUK policy regarding discusion/mention of knives will have to be put in place due to amended "software filters" and I defy anyone to state with authority this will not prove necessary. There is a UK knife amnesty due any day now and we can expect much debate about what should be done to curtail their use as "weapons". I doubt a similar airing will be given to their legitimate use as "tools".

Hi, All: Sadly, the governments of the world seek to disarm their populaces by whatever means necessary. From fi****ms to k***es. When the only people allowed to arm themselves are the military and the police, we have a serious problem. If the people are willing to submit to this, they deserve whatever the military/police deem best for them........sheep to the slaughter, perhaps? Luckily, we have the National R***e Assosciation here in the U.S. to help us keep and bear a**ms. The fact of the matter is that no entity can keep w*****ns out of the hands of people determined to have them. Unfortunately, law abiding citizens won't try to obtain them if made illegal whereas the criminal element will obtain them and make use of them on an unprotected population. The coppers can't be everywhere to protect everyone. There is a bumper sticker here that says: "If G**ns Are Outlawed, Only Outlaws Will Have G**ns". Trite but True.

Remain Vigilant...

Bruce

[Lurch]

Wise words DD.
Sadly you won't find too many on this side of the pond to agree with you, myself I'm a life member of the (US) NRA.

[tomtom]

Lets stay off the issues of UK gun laws or any other politics for that matter, please! :)

[lyndon]

im a british army qualified armourer that means i used to fix g,s and r.s and p.s and even shot g,s (thats rediculous)
regardless of any policie on these things thats a really nice story thanks for sharing it pierre
ide have been so happy to get the same for my wedding (as i didnt get a ring either)
thanks again

[elma]

Dont you think we're going a little off track here?

I thought I was on gun trader forum for a moment.

Ian

[pierre girard]

Dont you think we're going a little off track here?

I thought I was on gun trader forum for a moment.

Ian

:dunno: Seems to be a certain amount of paranoia on the subject.
PG

[AUSSIE]

My all time favorite 30 cal Bushcraft Rifle is my Winchester 30/30 fitted out with a synthetic stock set and AO Ghost Ring Sights. Man I love to take off into the bush chasing goats, pigs and the odd Fallow Deer with that all time classic! It really does have a frontiersman type feel to it! Like it just belongs out in the wilds!! Now that I've bought myself a digital camera I must post a pic of it with my possibles bag and hunting / bushcraft gear.