View Full Version : Hudson Bay Blanket
pierre girard
02-03-2006, 03:42
As they are made in England, I was wondering what a Hudson Bay blanket costs in England.
PG
I believe that they are only made here in Canada. (http://www.hbc.com/hbcheritage/history/blanket/)
They're good blankets though, our fur traders made very good use of them.
Good luck!
Adam
pierre girard
02-03-2006, 06:24
Says "Made in England" on each blanket.
Go to link and click on blanket tag:
http://cgi.ebay.com/Old-Red-Black-Wool-HUDSON-BAY-4-Point-Blanket_W0QQitemZ6257416603QQc ategoryZ13945QQrdZ1QQcmdZViewI tem
PG
Hudson Bay blankets are made in Witney Oxfordshire in the Uk, always have been.They are still made at Earlys Blanket mills today.And they still cost a fortune over here :eek:
Bit of history
http://www.oxfordshirepast.net/wit_econ1500-1800.html
MagiKelly
02-03-2006, 11:07
Hudson Bay blankets are made in Witney Oxfordshire in the Uk, always have been.They are still made at Earlys Blanket mills today.And they still cost a fortune over here :eek:
Bit of history
http://www.oxfordshirepast.net/wit_econ1500-1800.html
Where can you get them over here? Can't seem to find a link.
I dont know if they are still made here but the last one i saw for sale was on a US store for about £60
pierre girard
02-03-2006, 11:15
Hudson Bay blankets are made in Witney Oxfordshire in the Uk, always have been.They are still made at Earlys Blanket mills today.And they still cost a fortune over here :eek:
Bit of history
http://www.oxfordshirepast.net/wit_econ1500-1800.html
That's a shame. What do they cost? Used ones used to be a $10 to $20 item at every Canadian garage sale - until the advent of e-bay.
A check of the web shows prices of $245 to $305 for a four point HB blanket. For quite a few years a local store sold seconds for between $50 and $75 for a four point (they usually had a smudge, or something equally innocuous). They are no longer able to get the seconds.
PG
I wish I could find one for $20, from what I can gather theyre about £150 from the HBC for the smallest size and old ones have apparently become very collectible. If anyone knows where they can be had for a reasonable price I'd love one.
I was up at Camden 2 weeks ago, found a Hudson Bay Blanket coat for £20 and it was the real thing, problem was it was a small :(
A four point would sell for £100+
I do not know where you would buy them new in the uk but a few find their way onto the second hand market.
Erleys mills have now been bought out by a company called Quiltex, maybe someone in the Oxford are could do some local research.
ilovemybed
02-03-2006, 11:55
What is so special about these blankets that they're so expensive? Is it a fashion thing?
What is so special about these blankets that they're so expensive? Is it a fashion thing?
Theyre functional and well made of top quality materials but theyre also a historic design icon so yes fashion is probably responsible for the current high prices.
Klenchblaize
02-03-2006, 12:38
Still not sure from reading all this if they are or are not available here in the UK and of British manufacture? The ones offered by Woolrich and LL Bean are very unlikely to have be imported from this wee Isle.
Cheers
Pierre,
Allow me to stand humbly corrected when yes, the website clearly does say that Hudson's Bay Blankets are clearly made in England.
My excuse? Three hour long classes are murder on my brain.
(Seriously, it's bonified!)
hehehe
Adam
Still not sure from reading all this if they are or are not available here in the UK and of British manufacture? The ones offered by Woolrich and LL Bean are very unlikely to have be imported from this wee Isle.
Cheers
The original ones were definitely 100% made in England and were I believe often traded with Canadian fur trappers, being highly prized by them.
Though I strongly suspect the market is now flooded with copies.
Where can you get them over here? Can't seem to find a link.
You probably cant get em. They are made under licence for the Hudson Bay Company and I would think strictly controlled. If you want a HB blanket, you probably either have to buy second hand or buy direct from HBC - which means importing from Canada. That would make it a very, very expensive blanket - well travelled though. :lmao:
Erleys shut the Witney mill in 2002, they do still manufacture in the uk though I do not know their location, you can still buy quality Witney blankets of 360g/m2 from the Witney Blanket company.
But no badged HB blanket. I cant even find a point blanket.
I cant find anywhere in the UK that sells em.
Angus Og
02-03-2006, 17:57
There a heavy blanket.
Early fur traders who explored the vast country used the short woven lines, called points, to indicate the price to be paid by the Indians for a blanket-four points, four beaver pelts and so on. Today the points indicate approximate weight and size: 4 points, about 6 lbs., is double; 6 points, about 8 lbs., is queen size; 8 points, about 10 lbs., is king size. These pure virgin wool blankets are regarded as precious heirlooms to be handed down and treasured from one generation to the next. Made in England.
Quote take from cabelas (http://www.cabelas.com/cabelas/en/templates/pod/standard-pod-wrapped.jsp?rid=&indexId=cat20682&navAction=push&navCount=3&cmCat=MainCatcat20656&parentType=index&parentId=cat20682&id=0010574) also have a look here (http://www.woolrich.com/)
Mr.Aspel and his roadshow was from Witney last week he held up a HB blanket ( a new one) and said a little piece about them still being made there.
As I understand it HB blankets were/are made to the order of that company for their own outlets as they do not have any outlets here I do not think you will find new ones for sale in the uk unless they have been reimported, copied, or come out of factory back door.
Having said that if blankets of the same quality are available made by a different maufacturer why not get one of those, unles the label means so much :)
Not original but looks like these pople are making them now, only available through HBC though :( Atkinsons (http://www.atkinsonblankets.co.uk/index1.htm)
Mr.Aspel and his roadshow was from Witney last week he held up a HB blanket ( a new one) and said a little piece about them still being made there.
As I understand it HB blankets were/are made to the order of that company for their own outlets as they do not have any outlets here I do not think you will find new ones for sale in the uk unless they have been reimported, copied, or come out of factory back door.
Having said that if blankets of the same quality are available made by a different maufacturer why not get one of those, unles the label means so much :)
Not so much the label that is interesting as the design. I dont want one to take bushcrafting or to make a capote out of, would be nice to have a HBC point blanket though, looking around that qualkity of blanket is not going to be cheap whether HBC or not, but I dont really want a salmon coloured blanket with satin edging ;)
http://www.woolrich.com/ are the people adviced by the HBC but http://www.duluthpack.com/ have them too.. neither are what you would call cheap! :rolleyes:;)
Maybe we should approach Atkinsons with a group buy suggestion ;) I think I can guess their reply though!
innocent bystander
02-03-2006, 18:27
You can get point blankets here (http://www.timberlinetipis.co.uk/5_point.htm), but they ain't cheap. And they're copies anyway...
http://www.woolrich.com/ are the people adviced by the HBC but http://www.duluthpack.com/ have them too.. neither are what you would call cheap! :rolleyes:;)
Mate, you are talking $300 USD for a 4 point.
Add on at least $50 for shipping (10 lbs in weight) = $350, then add 8% for duty = $378, then add 17.5% VAT = $444.15
That's an expensive blanket.
How about conbtacting HBC and asking if there are any outlets in England?
The wierd thing is, Atkinsons in Yorkshire claim they have been supplying HBC with their point Blankets for 30 years yet Erleys of Witney have only been closed since 2002. Atkinsons also state that they make them under licence to HBC and while they sell their own range of stuff to Harrods etc and direct through an online catalogue the HBC point blankets appear to be only available through HBC in Canada.
I'll give Atkinsons a call tomorrow on the off chance! You never know, they might have some unlabelled 2nds lying around ;)
innocent bystander
02-03-2006, 19:53
I've just emailed HBC to ask them about there apparent lack of availability in the UK. Sad when you think they're made here, that you can't get them here...
Longstrider
02-03-2006, 20:37
The Identity Store in Northampton sell these I think. Not sure if they are Hudson Bay or Witneys, but I know I quickly found something else to look at when I saw the price of the things!
pierre girard
03-03-2006, 08:45
Still not sure from reading all this if they are or are not available here in the UK and of British manufacture? The ones offered by Woolrich and LL Bean are very unlikely to have be imported from this wee Isle.
Cheers
While I'm sure I don't know all the ins and outs of this, Hudson Bay Blankets were traditionally made by Earlys of Whitney - in England - and transported to Canada where they were fulled by the Hudsons Bay Co. - who then applied their patch.
I've purchased HBC blankets from Woolrich, and yes, they are the real HBC blankets, with the patch that says, "Made in England." They are not made by Woolrich.
I also have several Earlys of Whitney point blankets, which used to sell - about 15 years ago - for $98 USD. They are slightly thinner (and larger) than the HBC blankets, but are highly prized as well. The people I purchased them from did large buys from the factory in England - and had no problem moving their product in the US. In one way, the E of W blankets were nicer than the HBC blankets in that the edeges were hemmed - so the blanket edges will not unravel. The HBC blankets are not hemmed.
I guess I was hoping there would be some way to contact the factory and see about a group buy.
PG
pierre girard
03-03-2006, 08:57
If anyone gets a wild hair to buy one, the red point blankets are the most sought after (for resale), followed by the garnet (green) point blankets. White backrounds with colored stripes are also much sought after.
The candy striper is the least sought after - as they are a more recent (possibly even 20th century) design.
There are also some very old designs (non point blanket), such as the lachine, and the Ingenious, both of which may harken back to original French Regime designs copied by the HBC after the 1750s.
These E of W, now run about $150, USD, for a four point in the US:
http://www.nwtrader.com/
PG
Buckshot
03-03-2006, 09:48
There was a fire in the now derelict E of W factory building the other day. Big fire , according to the news ' Smoke could be seen from all over the Witney area'.
It's about to be knocked down for housing anyway. :(
No more new Witney blankets any more.
Just had a chat with a nice lady in the sales department at Atkinsons. Unfortunately due to the licence agreement with HBC they are emphatically not able to distribute them in the uk on HBC's behalf, much as they would like to. I mentioned the interest on BCUK and she said she would pass the link onto HBC. She also said that they had obtained the contract to supply the point blankets to HBC long before Erleys closed hence the statement on the Atkinson website that they have been making them for HBC for 30 years, the lady I spoke to said it had been more like 40 years and it sems there may well have been other manufacturers involved over the years, depending on which blanket manufacturer had the contract at any time.
So if we want one in the UK it seems we have to pay full price to import them :(
Buckshot
03-03-2006, 15:32
No more new Witney blankets any more.
Except I just went to the local farm shop and they were selling it as a horse blanket !!!
I bought it :)
jamesdevine
03-03-2006, 15:41
Wonder if they would be interested in making a BCUK Campfire Blanket. Like the Badges and T's it might be a good idea. ;)
James
Klenchblaize
03-03-2006, 16:05
Sorry chaps I was VERY wrong!
www.woolrich.com do indeed import the blanket from the UK!
They offer a good selection too as can be found if you click on the drop-down "For The Home" box.
http://i32.photobucket.com/albums/d46/klenchblaize/995040.jpg
Cheers
Buckshot
03-03-2006, 17:56
How does the point system work?
Is it the number of stiches per inch or the pile or weight?
Cheers
Mark
innocent bystander
03-03-2006, 18:31
How does the point system work?
Is it the number of stiches per inch or the pile or weight?
Cheers
Mark
I think it's the number and size of beaver pelts....
Buckshot
04-03-2006, 09:00
I think it's the number and size of beaver pelts....
Hmmm, kinda difficult to measure that in the UK :rolleyes:
innocent bystander
04-03-2006, 10:03
Then again I may be wrong :
The Point System
Each blanket was graded as to weight and size using a point system. Points were identified by the indigo lines woven into the side of each blanket. A full point measured 4 - 5.5 in.; a half point measured half that length. The standard measurements for a pair of 1 point blankets was: 2 ft. 8 in. wide by 8 ft. in length; with a weight of 3 lb. 1 oz. each. Points ranged from 1 to 6, increasing by halves depending upon the size and weight of the blanket. The number of points represented the overall finished size of the blanket, not its value in terms of beaver pelts as is sometimes believed.
pierre girard
04-03-2006, 11:58
I think it's the number and size of beaver pelts....
The "cost" of trade goods varied with time and place. A blanket could be bought for one price in Montreal, while the same blanket would be more at Grand Portage (a 1000 miles of transport costs) and much more in the Athabaskan region of NW Canada.
I lifted the following from Parks Canada:
"Circumstances such as local demand, transportation costs, amount of competition and other factors mean that the actual cost of a blanket at any one time at a post needs to be determined using account books and standards of trade. For example, the prices at Moose Factory in 1784 were 1 made beaver for a 1 point blanket, 2 made beaver for a 1 1/2 point blanket, 2 1/2 made beaver for a 2 point blanket, 3 made beaver for a 2 1/2 point blanket and 4 made beaver for a 3 point blanket. Still the equation of 1 point per1 made beaver is a good rough guide to price. Blankets also came in different qualities, so points should not be taken as an exact indicator of price in all cases."
The French instituted the point system, which was taken over by the NW Company, and also by the HBCo, according to one source, in 1784, and once again borrowing from Parks Canada:
"(HBC approached) Thomas Empson of Whitney in Oxfordshire, to make up a trial order of 500 point blankets – 100 in 1, 1 1/2, 2, 2 1/2 and 3 point sizes. In 1780, the first HBC point blankets were shipped to Fort Albany on James Bay, where they proved so popular that they became a standard trade item. Before long, several firms were producing this type of blanket for the HBC, North West Company and other fur trade firms.
NWCo blankets most famous blanket was a white backround with two navy blue, or dark blue stripes.
PG
bothyman
04-03-2006, 12:31
Found this has anyone bought one of the Trapper Blankets??
Looks a lot like a Hbc Blanket .
>> http://www.sutlers.co.uk/cgi/sh000001.pl?REFPAGE=http%3a%2f %2fwww%2esutlers%2eco%2euk%2fa catalog%2findex%2ehtml&WD=blanket&SHOP=%20&PN=Backpacks__Haversacks__Ponc hos___Blankets%2ehtml%23a473#a 473
MickT
innocent bystander
04-03-2006, 12:59
Found this has anyone bought one of the Trapper Blankets??
Looks a lot like a Hbc Blanket .
If the blurb is to be believed, then it's a seconds of the real ones ?
When they are that cheap, Who cares ? Just ordered one, and will see what it is like... :rolleyes:
Found this has anyone bought one of the Trapper Blankets??
Looks a lot like a Hbc Blanket .
>> http://www.sutlers.co.uk/cgi/sh000001.pl?REFPAGE=http%3a%2f %2fwww%2esutlers%2eco%2euk%2fa catalog%2findex%2ehtml&WD=blanket&SHOP=%20&PN=Backpacks__Haversacks__Ponc hos___Blankets%2ehtml%23a473#a 473
MickT
Well found Bothyman :You_Rock_
Ive just spoken to them and they reckon they are made by Hainsworths, John Atkinson who make the HBC blankets are part of the Hainsworth group so it looks like this is the real deal. Ive ordered one :)
pierre girard
04-03-2006, 20:23
If the blurb is to be believed, then it's a seconds of the real ones ?
When they are that cheap, Who cares ? Just ordered one, and will see what it is like... :rolleyes:
How much are they? I am unable to acess the site.
Never mind!
Got on after several trys. This is an incredibly good deal! According to my currency converter - $87.67 USD for an eight point and $52.56 USD for a four point. Best price I've seen for a new blanket, and if they are similar to the seconds which used to be sold here - the blemishes are very minimal. I'd imagine this dealer has made a better bid and that is why the seconds are no longer available locally.
PG
How much are they? I am unable to acess the site.
PG
2 point £25 GBP
4 point £30 GBP
6 point £40 GBP
8 point £50 GBP
Thats rounded up to the nearest pound! I ordered a white/cream 4 point with the coloured stripes
pierre girard
04-03-2006, 20:45
Is this a US company or a GB company? I went through the process, and am only getting a shipping cost of $15. Wing has gone to the store with the only debit card we posess - otherwise I would buy an eight point right now. I can't get an HBCo blanket shipped off e-bay for that shipping price!
PG
pierre girard
04-03-2006, 20:48
Maybe you'd want to e-mail them and ask if they are, in fact, HBC seconds. An HBCo second will have the HBCo tag, but it will be slashed (cut) or have a black felt tip pen X or / though it.
PG
Is this a US company or a GB company? I went through the process, and am only getting a shipping cost of $15. Wing has gone to the store with the only debit card we posess - otherwise I would buy an eight point right now. I can't get an HBCo blanket shipped off e-bay for that price!
PG
Theyre in Bournemouth, England. I ordered by phone not through their website and I didnt even ask what the shipping cost was :rolleyes: but I would think it would be more than $15 USD to the states. Did you manage to get onto their website?
Eric_Methven
04-03-2006, 20:53
Nice find. I just ordered a 6 point multi coloured. I'm going to make a capote.
Eric
Maybe you'd want to e-mail them and ask if they are, in fact, HBC seconds. An HBCo second will have the HBCo tag, but it will be slashed (cut) or have a black felt tip pen X or / though it.
PG
Pierre, I doubt that they will have HBC labels on them as Atkinsons (the current UK manufacturer of HBC point blankets) are not licensed to sell HBC blankets to anyone other than HBC, but according to the guy I spoke to at the shop the ones they have for sale are made by the same company, he actually said Hainsworth and Atkinons are part of the Hainsworth group.
We wont know for sure until they arrive and even then I dont have a real one to compare them with??
pierre girard
04-03-2006, 21:00
Theyre in Bournemouth, England. I ordered by phone not through their website and I didnt even ask what the shipping cost was :rolleyes: but I would think it would be more than $15 USD to the states. Did you manage to get onto their website?
Couldn't get on using Innocent Bystander's post. Was able to get on using your quote of Innocent Bystander's post (if that makes any sense).
The list of items they have for sale, makes me wonder if they may have outlets in the US as well as GB. There were a lot of American Civil War items. I wouldn't think there were too many people in GB reenacting the American Civil War. You have your own civil war, after all.
PG
pierre girard
04-03-2006, 21:09
Pierre, I doubt that they will have HBC labels on them as Atkinsons (the current UK manufacturer of HBC point blankets) are not licensed to sell HBC blankets to anyone other than HBC, but according to the guy I spoke to at the shop the ones they have for sale are made by the same company, he actually said Hainsworth and Atkinons are part of the Hainsworth group.
We wont know for sure until they arrive and even then I dont have a real one to compare them with??
Well, I'm going to order one as soon as Wing gets home. I've wanted an eight point for our king size bed for years. I have several HBCo blankets to compare it with, and I'll post and let you know. HBC blankets are wonderfully thick. The only thing better, over here, are the Wilder blankets and they are hand woven (and the price reflects it).
PG
bothyman
04-03-2006, 21:22
Looks like they are a good price I only found it because I remembered a Group in the UK called "The Hudson Bay Trappers",
((Their website is shutdown)
I knew there must be someone who had something like it but never thought they would be that cheap may even buy one myself.
When you get one could you let me know if they are ok , with seconds a lot of the time you can't find the flaws anyway.
I could live in an 8point one :rolleyes:
Did they say anything about the sizes and colours they had in stock??
MickT
Eric_Methven
04-03-2006, 21:39
I wouldn't think there were too many people in GB reenacting the American Civil War. You have your own civil war, after all.
PG
Don't you believe it. The American Civil War reenactment scene is very popular, as are Country and Western clubs and societies complete with quick draw contests and the like.
Eric
I only enquired about the one I ordered, was too excited to even find out how much they are going to charge me for shipping. Will post my opinion for what its worth when I get mine.
Pierre, theyre shut now until Monday but if you have trouble ordering I'd be happy to act as a middle man for you, would be very interested to know if theyre the same as yours.
Found this has anyone bought one of the Trapper Blankets??
Looks a lot like a Hbc Blanket .
>> http://www.sutlers.co.uk/cgi/sh000001.pl?REFPAGE=http%3a%2f %2fwww%2esutlers%2eco%2euk%2fa catalog%2findex%2ehtml&WD=blanket&SHOP=%20&PN=Backpacks__Haversacks__Ponc hos___Blankets%2ehtml%23a473#a 473
MickT
Good find bothyman - interesting site as well.
Gone into favourites - just in case I ever need a ball and chain :) http://www.sutlers.co.uk/acatalog/Bits_and_Pieces.html
George
pierre girard
04-03-2006, 22:15
Don't you believe it. The American Civil War reenactment scene is very popular, as are Country and Western clubs and societies complete with quick draw contests and the like.
Eric
??? Well, of all the crazy things! :lmao: :lmao: :lmao:
PG
bothyman
04-03-2006, 22:22
This ones for PG.
>> http://www.theshootists.co.uk/
MickT
pierre girard
04-03-2006, 22:27
I only enquired about the one I ordered, was too excited to even find out how much they are going to charge me for shipping. Will post my opinion for what its worth when I get mine.
Pierre, theyre shut now until Monday but if you have trouble ordering I'd be happy to act as a middle man for you, would be very interested to know if theyre the same as yours.
I'd imagine the website still allows orders - which will likely be answered in order of receipt.
It is quite possible they are blankets of lesser quality for the price they are asking. Let's hope they are the real deal.
They must have a US outlet for the shipping they are quoting me. I see the prices are in GB Pounds and US Dollars. No other scenario makes sense to me.
As to them not being allowed to sell HBCo blankets - the same was true of the local outlet. Drawing an X or a slash through the HBC tag was apparently sufficient to deal with this (it definitely cuts down on the resale value if dealing with collectors). As I'm only interested in a warm blanket - I could care less, but I want that good thick HBC blanket.
As to the blemishes of the seconds I've purchased. One had a kind of bunching on one small portion of the blanket - like a thread pulled too tight. A couple of years use has made this dissappear. Another had some spots - dirt or something. Use, and frequent hanging from the outdoor clothesline, has made this dissappear as well. I've never washed any of these blankets. A good afternoon hanging outside will get them smelling fresh as a daisy. I've seen some seconds with dye problems. Still not an issue if you just want a warm blanket.
PG
pierre girard
04-03-2006, 22:34
This ones for PG.
>> http://www.theshootists.co.uk/
MickT
Well, that is something. I guess I shouldn't be surprised. I had a fella show up from GB who was really into Shawnee Indians. Had the nose for it, shaved head, etc. Had all the clothing, etc and did a really good impression - until he opened his mouth and out came that Sussex accent. :lmao: :lmao: :lmao:
I don't think he ever said anything that I didn't have to ask him to repeat. He said his accent was nothing compared to a Cockney accent, and my folks, who spent a summer in Scotland, said Scots are impossible to understand - though capable of making themselves understood - if they want to.
Do you guys have as hard a time understanding our speech - as we do yours?
PG
MagiKelly
04-03-2006, 22:41
Here is a direct link
http://www.sutlers.co.uk/acatalog/Backpacks__Haversacks__Ponchos ___Blankets.html
Be interested to hear how warm these are.
pierre girard
04-03-2006, 22:59
Here is a direct link
http://www.sutlers.co.uk/acatalog/Backpacks__Haversacks__Ponchos ___Blankets.html
Be interested to hear how warm these are.
In winter (Minnesota or Canada winter) , if you have two guys, each packing two four point blankets - who are not so worried about their masculinity that they can't double up - you can stay quite warm. One blanket in spring, summer, and fall - will usually do ya.
Sizes:
A 3 1/2 point is the perfect camping blanket - but is a bit hard to find. Three point is just a bit small, but would be the size you see in all those old indian photos where they have the blanket draped around them - anything larger and you're standing on it. The three point is much easier to pack for camping. Four point is a good double bed size, and is very nice for colder camping weather - especially if there are two of you - but is bulky to carry. Six point will do a Queen size bed. Eight point will do a king size bed. I'm really not sure what you'd do with a two point. They are very small.
PG
Eric_Methven
04-03-2006, 23:01
Do you guys have as hard a time understanding our speech - as we do yours?
PG
Not really, we get so much TV and films from over the big pond that we're pretty much used to hearing it. Sometimes a real southern drawl makes us sit up and listen that bit closer, but on the whole we can understand you folks.
It's often not so much the accent that causes problems for American visitors to our shores, but the specific dialect uses words foreign to you. If I were to say "Ye dinnae ken whit ah'm talkin' aboot, dae ye?" (You don't know what I'm talking about, do you?) It would be just as foreign to a Cockney as to an American.
Eric
pierre girard
04-03-2006, 23:09
Not really, we get so much TV and films from over the big pond that we're pretty much used to hearing it. Sometimes a real southern drawl makes us sit up and listen that bit closer, but on the whole we can understand you folks.
It's often not so much the accent that causes problems for American visitors to our shores, but the specific dialect uses words foreign to you. If I were to say "Ye dinnae ken whit ah'm talkin' aboot, dae ye?" (You don't know what I'm talking about, do you?) It would be just as foreign to a Cockney as to an American.
Eric
"Ye dinnae ken whit ah'm talkin' aboot, dae ye?"
When I was young we didn't have television, and we read a lot of Sir Walter Scott. Reading it, at least, I understood it perfectly. Whether the same would be true hearing it???
The problem I had with the gentleman from Sussex was - he'd bite off about a third of every word and leave off about a third of every sentence. :lmao: Very maddening!
It is funny you have problems with southern speech ways. I've heard it said it is the closest of any American speech to English speech, deriving from the caviliers in the south of England.
PG
tagnut69
04-03-2006, 23:12
When I was in Finland a few years ago we realy had to crank up the Suffolk dialect, just so we could talk in private among the Finish girls, as there English was better than ours.
pierre girard
04-03-2006, 23:21
When I was in Finland a few years ago we realy had to crank up the Suffolk dialect, just so we could talk in private among the Finish girls, as there English was better than ours.
I've noticed when we've had Norwegian visitors, their english is very good - and most often spoken with a British accent. They've told me one reason their englsih is so good is - there are no subtitles on their english language movies. A decision made by their government to promote understanding of the english language (or so they said).
The Norwegians we've had over from Norway have much different accents than local Norwegian speakers of two or three generations residence.
Pg
??? Well, of all the crazy things! :lmao: :lmao: :lmao:
PG
I dunno mate. You chaps have a middle ages Saxon and Viking re-enactment scene bigger than ours. :)
Eric_Methven
05-03-2006, 11:24
I dunno mate. You chaps have a middle ages Saxon and Viking re-enactment scene bigger than ours. :)
Oh yes! Just look up S.C.A. (Society for Creative Anachronism) and see what goes on at Pensic every year. I do 15th century 'wars of the roses' stuff and the SCA websites have proved a mine of useful information. Some of the research is just fantastic. Then they go and spoil it all by using synthetic fibres to make their period clothing. "Can't get felted wool? It's OK, just use fibrepile or a heavy polyprop fleece. It looks the same (from a distance)" Yea, right!
Eric
BorderReiver
05-03-2006, 12:21
Well, that is something. I guess I shouldn't be surprised. I had a fella show up from GB who was really into Shawnee Indians. Had the nose for it, shaved head, etc. Had all the clothing, etc and did a really good impression - until he opened his mouth and out came that Sussex accent. :lmao: :lmao: :lmao:
I don't think he ever said anything that I didn't have to ask him to repeat. He said his accent was nothing compared to a Cockney accent, and my folks, who spent a summer in Scotland, said Scots are impossible to understand - though capable of making themselves understood - if they want to.
Do you guys have as hard a time understanding our speech - as we do yours?
PG
Pierre,I am a Scot,living in England.
Although I am only 300 miles from where I was born,if I spoke "normally" I would not be understood.
Over the last 30ish years I have developed the technique of automatically translating my native lowland scots into english while I'm speaking.
I think that you would have less bother than I do :p :D
pierre girard
05-03-2006, 15:03
Oh yes! Just look up S.C.A. (Society for Creative Anachronism) and see what goes on at Pensic every year. I do 15th century 'wars of the roses' stuff and the SCA websites have proved a mine of useful information. Some of the research is just fantastic. Then they go and spoil it all by using synthetic fibres to make their period clothing. "Can't get felted wool? It's OK, just use fibrepile or a heavy polyprop fleece. It looks the same (from a distance)" Yea, right!
Eric
Oh, yes - I've heard of this group. Not really reenactors, eh? "Creative" would be the operative word. They are involved in a Renaissance Fair in southern Minnesota every year. Very artsy craftsy. Lot of actors - and bad actors.
PG
I think you may be disappointed with these blankets, a friend of mine who ordered one found it to be far under expectations, I'm trying to be polite here.
He sent it back by return delivery after comparing it to his HBC blankets.
Eric_Methven
05-03-2006, 20:19
I think you may be disappointed with these blankets, a friend of mine who ordered one found it to be far under expectations, I'm trying to be polite here.
He sent it back by return delivery after comparing it to his HBC blankets.
Well, I'll take my chances. I've never seen or felt a HBC blanket so I'll have nothing to make a comparison with. Anyway, I'm making mine into a coat (capote). If I'm ever fortunate enough to get hold of a genuine article then I'll probably just keep it as a blanket. It'd be a shame to chop one of them up. I'm sure the one I ordered will be sufficient for a warm wool coat for sitting round the campfire - and if it lacks sufficient warmth, then the bottle of single malt I'll be cradling in my arms will surely make up for it.
Eric
Joan Murray
06-03-2006, 19:09
Hi, everyone. I'm new to the forum. As Corporate Histoian for Hudson's Bay Company our blankets are of particular interest to me and to many people who contact our Company. There certainly seem to be a lot of Bushcraft members with questions about Hbc blankets, etc., that I can address.
First of all please visit Hbc's history website www.hbcheritage.ca (http://www.hbcheritage.ca) and, in particular our information and FAQs about the blankets (http://www.hbc.com/hbcheritage/history/blanket/). Most of your questions will be answered there (points, colours, etc.). And for those that are not, I welcome any others you may have: however, please get in touch via the Contact Us section of our site or at history.contact@hbc.com.
To address a few key issues:
Manufacture: Our blankets are made in Yorkshire by John Atkinson & Sons, a division of A. W. Hainsworth & Sons Ltd. Atkinson's has been the sole supplier of HBc blankets for at least the last half century. The very first Hbc blankets were made in Witney: the first order on record dates to 1780, from a maker named Thomas Empson. By the mid 19th century the demand for blankets was so high that additional production began in Yorkshire. In both areas multiple mills were involved.
Price: Hbc blankets are a premium product, exclusive and priced accordingly. Blankets are made to order. The process begins with the selection of fleeces and the spnining and dyeing of the resulting yarn. Production runs are relatively small and quality standards are very high. The resulting product is remarkably consistent in both quality and performance. Sizes range from 3.5 pts. (Twin) to 8.0 pts (King) priced form CAD $250 - $450.
Availability: Hbc sells its point blankets in Canada only. Woolrich is our American licensee, and sells both wholesale and retail to the American market. L.L. Bean retails the blankets which it buys wholesale from Woolrich. Interested UK buyers should check both Woolrich and Bean for the terms of their iternatinal sales.
Seconds:/B] Until 2003 Seconds were made avaiable to Woolrich a practice that Hbc has since terminated. Seconds are used by Hbc in the development of other products anbd for certain educational programs.
[B]Knockoffs: The quality and popularity of Hb blankets has made them subject to "imitiaiton" for well over a hundred years. Both English and American manufacturuers have attempted to capitalize on the Hbc reputation primarily by means of adopting our traditional 4-colour multistripe pattern. This "tradition" also continues to this day.
Canadian icon: Hbc balnkets are known the world over as icons of Canada - an interesting claim for a 100% British product. But the reasons have to do with Canadian history and the role Hbc played in the development of Canada. Hbc has the current clothing contract for the Canadian Olympic, Paralympic and Commonwealth Games teams through 2012. It's no accident that the beds of all Canadian Olympic team members at last month's Torino Winter Games sported Hbc multstripe blankets.
Hope this clairifies some of your questions.
Cheers,
Joan
Hi Joan
Weclome to BCUK and many thanks for your input in clearing up some of the questions that have cropped up on this thread.
Is there no possibility that HBCmight licence the blankets for sale in the UK? It seems that re-importing them might be an expensive way for us to obtain them over here, once shipping costs and customs duties are taken into account.
It looks like some of us may indeed be dissapointed with the cheap HBC style blankets that weve ordered though :o
All the best
pierre girard
07-03-2006, 09:36
Hi, everyone. I'm new to the forum. As Corporate Histoian for Hudson's Bay Company our blankets are of particular interest to me and to many people who contact our Company. There certainly seem to be a lot of Bushcraft members with questions about Hbc blankets, etc., that I can address.....
Hope this clairifies some of your questions.
Cheers,
Joan
Joan:
Very interesting post. I had wondered why Woolrich, who make their own woolen blankets, was selling HBC blankets.
Sorry to hear the sales of seconds were terminated. For folks like me - who use your blankets for camping and are more concerned about cost and warmth than looks - it is sad to hear.
Perhaps you could clear up a question I have. When were the candy striped blankets first introduced?
Bushcraft UK sometimes does group buys. I don't suppose there is any kind of group rate for blanket sales?
PG
bothyman
07-03-2006, 17:50
This is an interesting article on "Trade Blankets".
>> http://washingtonhistory.org/wshs/columbia/articles/0202-a1.htm
MickT
Mine has just arrived from Sutlers. I ordered a 4 point, it has 3 and a half bars on the edge, its 215cm x 147cm, its approx 6mm thick (slightly compressed) and weighs 5lb, theres no label. In hindsight I think a bigger one mightve been more useful to me. Its a nice wooly blanket, certainly nicer than some of the old synthetic ones we have around the house (which I've now realised are probably all super kingsize), I tend to run hot and dont have the heating on a lot so SWMBO often has a blanket handy if shes sitting around, I'm sure this one will be well appreciated :)
My first impressions are fairly under-awed to be honest but I dont know what I expected, its a blanket ;) and Ive no idea what the real ones are like, the colours are brighter than I anticipated, they look synthetic and not traditional to my eye but what do I know! I could get my mate in Canada to bring me a real one over at witsun but at £150 for the real ones compared to £33 shipped I think I'll just keep this one, at that price I think its fine. I will probably bind the edges to stop them fraying and I think I could become fond of it over time. I wont be using it instead of my down bag in a hurry but I guess it would be nice to sit in by the fire.
Ive just gone to the Sutlers website and I cant find these blankets anymore, is it just me or have they gone?
EDIT: Ive ordered a 6 pointer to go with it, and they only have one left!
innocent bystander
08-03-2006, 19:38
Mine just arrived about 2 minutes ago...
Doesn't seem to be so bad, and is quite thick....
And for £29 quid, i really can not complain about it......... :approve:
We must have bought the shop out Jason... :rolleyes:
jamesraykenney
09-03-2006, 01:16
"Ye dinnae ken whit ah'm talkin' aboot, dae ye?"
When I was young we didn't have television, and we read a lot of Sir Walter Scott. Reading it, at least, I understood it perfectly. Whether the same would be true hearing it???
The problem I had with the gentleman from Sussex was - he'd bite off about a third of every word and leave off about a third of every sentence. :lmao: Very maddening!
It is funny you have problems with southern speech ways. I've heard it said it is the closest of any American speech to English speech, deriving from the caviliers in the south of England.
PG
It is the closest to the was English was spoken at THAT time...
English sound NOTHING like what is sounded back then...
The British nobility sent all their kids to French and German schools and came back with an accent...This was partly copied by the subjects and over the years this became the English accent we all know and love today...
The Southern accent comes from BEFORE that time, and because we never sent most of our kids to schools over the big pond, it never changed as much...
It is the closest to the was English was spoken at THAT time...
English sound NOTHING like what is sounded back then...
The British nobility sent all their kids to French and German schools and came back with an accent...This was partly copied by the subjects and over the years this became the English accent we all know and love today...
The Southern accent comes from BEFORE that time, and because we never sent most of our kids to schools over the big pond, it never changed as much...
Interesting idea, so Southron drawl is more English than English lol.
Though I wouldnt have thought the accents of the nobility would really have much affect on the accents of the proletariat masses, as the two scarcely mixed ;) When you say back then exactly when do you mean?
It is often said in my region (The black country) that our local dialect and accent is closest to the old English spaked by Shakespeare. I would have thought that if all of England were influenced by the accents of the continental educated brats of the nobility, as you suggest, then surely there wouldnt be such an extremely diverse and varied mix of regional dialects and accents still in place today?
You didnt think we all speak like BBC news readers did you :lmao:
I was told by a Confederate re-enactor that the Southern drawl developed during the slave era. White boys were sent to school but the girls were educated at home and the company they heard most often were servants voices, nannies, maids, and the like. The accent developed from the mix of peoples and their use of the vocabulary, and eventually, regardless of class, the drawl became the regional patois.
Scotland is the same as England in it's regional variation, personally I like the diversity.....confusing or not! :D
Cheers,
Toddy
The British nobility sent all their kids to French and German schools and came back with an accent...This was partly copied by the subjects and over the years this became the English accent we all know and love today...
...
A novel idea, but completely lacks any basis in truth I'm afraid. :)
Klenchblaize
09-03-2006, 13:03
Well, that is something. I guess I shouldn't be surprised. I had a fella show up from GB who was really into Shawnee Indians. Had the nose for it, shaved head, etc. Had all the clothing, etc and did a really good impression - until he opened his mouth and out came that Sussex accent. :lmao: :lmao: :lmao:
I don't think he ever said anything that I didn't have to ask him to repeat. He said his accent was nothing compared to a Cockney accent, and my folks, who spent a summer in Scotland, said Scots are impossible to understand - though capable of making themselves understood - if they want to.
Do you guys have as hard a time understanding our speech - as we do yours?
PG
PARDON?? :lmao:
:lmao: :lmao: :lmao:
Ceeg
aquanaut
09-03-2006, 13:29
cant find these listed on the Sutlers site - some other blankets but no trapper's one...maybe all gone?
cant find these listed on the Sutlers site - some other blankets but no trapper's one...maybe all gone?
Ive just gone to the Sutlers website and I cant find these blankets anymore, is it just me or have they gone?
EDIT: Ive ordered a 6 pointer to go with it, and they only have one left!
When I phoned yesterday they had 2 left, one of those is on its way to me ;)
They said they might have more in at a later date but the supply was neither regular nor predictable and they have indeed taken them off the website. They were a bargain IMO. Now I just have to neaten up my blanket stitch a bit so I can make a hem on the two cut edges!
pierre girard
09-03-2006, 15:32
Interesting idea, so Southron drawl is more English than English lol.
Though I wouldnt have thought the accents of the nobility would really have much affect on the accents of the proletariat masses, as the two scarcely mixed ;) When you say back then exactly when do you mean?
It is often said in my region (The black country) that our local dialect and accent is closest to the old English spaked by Shakespeare. I would have thought that if all of England were influenced by the accents of the continental educated brats of the nobility, as you suggest, then surely there wouldnt be such an extremely diverse and varied mix of regional dialects and accents still in place today?
You didnt think we all speak like BBC news readers did you :lmao:
RE: News readers - most of those in the US have midwest accents - very similar to my own. No matter where they are from - East coast or south - they teach them to speak like they are from the midwest before they let them on the tube.
Around here somewhere, I have a very interesting book on US speechways, named "Albion's Seed." It may oversimplify, but it says there are basically four American speechways.
One is from the Puritans, and is from East England. These folks settled in New England and today the accent is common in the New England states, New York State, and parts of Illinois and Michigan.
A second accent is from the above mentioned English Caviliers, originates in the southwest of England and is predominent in the southern American states.
A third type is from the Scotch borderers (lowland Scots and border English) and is spoken in southern and middle US hill country. This particular speechway is the most graphic - and most likely to offend.
The most predominent accent in the US comes from the Quakers originating in Yorkshire and the midlands. It is the accent you hear from our "news readers," and is in wide use except in the south and along the eastern seaboard ( this does not hold true in my case as my Puritan ancestors are from Yorkshire while my Quaker ancestors are from Wales).
According to the book, each of these speechways has their own sayings which can be traced to the part of England where they originated. I'll see if I can locate the book. I'm not sure if I buy everything it states, but it is a very intereresting book.
I've found a bit of the book online, and here is a quote:
"The four waves of British immigrants who brought their folkways to the American colonies were 1. Puritan: from east England to Massachusetts (1629-1640); 2.Royalists elite: from south England to Virginia (1649-1675); 3. Quakers: from the Midlands of England and Wales to the Delaware Valley (1675-1725); 4. Backcountrymen from The Borders: from the borders of England and Scotland to Northern Ireland and thence to Pennsylvania and the southern colonies (1718-1775). The borders is a term Fischer uses to include all of Scotland southeast of a line drawn between Glasgow in the west and Edinbrough in the east. The borders also includes the following English counties: Lancashire, Yorkshire, Westmoreland, Durham, Cumberland, and North Cumberland. These Southern highlanders or backcountrymen settled in South Carolina from the midlands to the mountains."
PG
http://www.rinkworks.com/dialect/
try this
Eric_Methven
09-03-2006, 16:00
Well, my blanket arrived half an hour ago - not impressed!
It's some eight feet long and three feet wide, with the stripes running down the middle. I understood the trapper blankets were proper blanket shape with the colours in narrow strips along the bottom edge. I was going to make a capote but by the looks of this thing I'll end up with Joseph's coat of many colors. Might send it to Dolly Parton.
Eric
pierre girard
09-03-2006, 16:04
Well, my blanket arrived half an hour ago - not impressed!
It's some eight feet long and three feet wide, with the stripes running down the middle. I understood the trapper blankets were proper blanket shape with the colours in narrow strips along the bottom edge. I was going to make a capote but by the looks of this thing I'll end up with Joseph's coat of many colors. Might send it to Dolly Parton.
Eric
Eight foot long/three wide? - very odd! How is it for thick?
Any chance of a photo?
PG
Well, my blanket arrived half an hour ago - not impressed!
It's some eight feet long and three feet wide, with the stripes running down the middle. I understood the trapper blankets were proper blanket shape with the colours in narrow strips along the bottom edge. I was going to make a capote but by the looks of this thing I'll end up with Joseph's coat of many colors. Might send it to Dolly Parton.
Eric
LOL sorry Eric not laughing at you, just got a vision of you dressed like Dolly Parton at the pole lathe ;)
My 3.5 point looks like these
http://www.hbc.com/hbcheritage/images/content/Blanket-Window.jpg
Maybe theyre not all the same, have a 6 point on order, what size was yours in points???
Eric, you could cut it in strips across the 'Blanket' so you end up with 8 strips of material and knock them out as HB 'type' scarfs :) either that or just send it back as my friend did and demand a full refund + postage costs.
Heres mine the points are on the top edge, didnt get em in the pic :rolleyes:
http://www.jasonbhall.freeserve.co.uk/point.jpg
bothyman
09-03-2006, 16:45
According to this article the stripes can be wide
>> http://www.northwestjournal.ca/XIII3.htm
MickT
bothyman
09-03-2006, 16:57
just send it back as my friend did and demand a full refund + postage costs.
No need to demand if you read the info on the website according to what they say you only have to ask.
>> http://www.sutlers.co.uk/acatalog/info.html
MickT
Guarantee We guarantee your satisfaction. All products (except Special Orders) are covered by our 'No-Quibble' money-back guarantee. If for any reason you are unhappy with what you receive, then simply return it to us in the condition you received it and we will refund your money or replace the product (whichever you prefer).
Returns Policy Warranty - All products (except Special Orders) are covered by our 'No-Quibble' money back guarantee, if for any reason you are unhappy with what you receive then simply return it to us within 7 days, in the condition you received it and we will refund the cost of the goods (less a 10% restocking charge) or replace the product whichever you prefer.
Sorry but can't see nothing here about refunding postage, only about keeping 10% for a restocking fee :eek: Taking either of the above two policy statements it seems to me the customer loses.
A third type is from the Scotch borderers (lowland Scots and border English) and is spoken in southern and middle US hill country. This particular speechway is the most graphic - and most likely to offend.
Scotch? :eek:
'tis a drink and naught else. ;)
Here yopu go PG you might find this interesting. A couple of recording of our local dialect - North Staffordshire or the potteries (Robbie Williams home :rolleyes: town ). I'm about 20 miles south of Manchester and the dialect here is strong. Though my accent is northern, it isnt this strong.
These recordings are radio transcriptions of writings about a fictitious local character "Owd Grandad Piggot (http://www.bbc.co.uk/stoke/features/2003/09/piggot.shtml)" (the North Staffs equivalent of a redneck) which get regularly broadcast on our local radio...
link 1 (http://www.bbc.co.uk/stoke/realmedia/2005/04/owd_grandad.ram)
link 2 (http://www.bbc.co.uk/stoke/realmedia/2005/07/alanpovey.ram)
I guarantee you've never heard English spoken like this. Dont worry though, there'll be a lot of Brits who dont understand it either. :)
Eric_Methven
09-03-2006, 22:22
OK, so maybe I over reacted when I opened the box. Actually, the wierd size of the blanket is perfect for making into a capote (wool blanket coat), although it will be crap for sleeping under.
Here's what I'm going to make from it. This one is on Ebay and is going for a couple of hundred Canadian dollars. The pattern is exactly the same as my blanket, and because it is so long, I might even get two coats out of it.
http://www.btinternet.com/~e_methven/images/ac_3.JPG
Of course mine won't have the label on the bottom. Still, if I get two coats out of it, it'll be a good forty quid's worth. (It was a six point blanket that I bought by the way).
Shall I take photos and do a tutorial?
Eric
OK,
Shall I take photos and do a tutorial?
Eric
I'd be interested in that Eric..
bothyman
09-03-2006, 22:44
Don't know if you have these links Eric but they may be of help.
>> http://www.inquiry.net/outdoor/winter/gear/capote.htm
>> http://www.scoutingvermont.org/frontiercamp/capote.pdf
MickT ;)
Eric_Methven
10-03-2006, 00:15
Don't know if you have these links Eric but they may be of help.
>> http://www.inquiry.net/outdoor/winter/gear/capote.htm
>> http://www.scoutingvermont.org/frontiercamp/capote.pdf
MickT ;)
Nice one Mick, Thanks for that.
Eric
pierre girard
10-03-2006, 03:07
Scotch? :eek:
'tis a drink and naught else. ;)
Here yopu go PG you might find this interesting. A couple of recording of our local dialect - North Staffordshire or the potteries (Robbie Williams home :rolleyes: town ). I'm about 20 miles south of Manchester and the dialect here is strong. Though my accent is northern, it isnt this strong.
These recordings are radio transcriptions of writings about a fictitious local character "Owd Grandad Piggot (http://www.bbc.co.uk/stoke/features/2003/09/piggot.shtml)" (the North Staffs equivalent of a redneck) which get regularly broadcast on our local radio...
link 1 (http://www.bbc.co.uk/stoke/realmedia/2005/04/owd_grandad.ram)
link 2 (http://www.bbc.co.uk/stoke/realmedia/2005/07/alanpovey.ram)
I guarantee you've never heard English spoken like this. Dont worry though, there'll be a lot of Brits who dont understand it either. :)
Can't open it. Darn
PG
pierre girard
10-03-2006, 03:21
OK, so maybe I over reacted when I opened the box. Actually, the wierd size of the blanket is perfect for making into a capote (wool blanket coat), although it will be crap for sleeping under.
Here's what I'm going to make from it. This one is on Ebay and is going for a couple of hundred Canadian dollars. The pattern is exactly the same as my blanket, and because it is so long, I might even get two coats out of it.
http://www.btinternet.com/~e_methven/images/ac_3.JPG
Of course mine won't have the label on the bottom. Still, if I get two coats out of it, it'll be a good forty quid's worth. (It was a six point blanket that I bought by the way).
Shall I take photos and do a tutorial?
Eric
Just a little info - in case you're interested. What you have pictured it a mid19th century capote. Earlier fur trade capotes did not have the fringes. Very early (French regime) capotes were made of coating weight wool, rather than blankets, and were much more of a "fitted" garment with 18th century "uniform" cuffs and cuff buttons - and looked much more like a great coat of that era, except for the hood.
PG
pierre girard
10-03-2006, 03:29
I should also mention - the best capotes I've made were constructed using British Army hospital blankets. While most of these blankets are all white, some of them have two or three thin blue stripes running lengthwise down the center. Makes for a very nice capote - and not near as heavy a weight as the HBC blankets (which are most often way too warm).
They used to sell them in the "Cheaper Than Dirt" catalog for $12, but I haven't seen them there for a while.
PG
Can't open it. Darn
PG
Sorry bud, you need realplayer (http://www.real.com/).
Hi Martyn maybe you should send Pierre half a doz oatcakes to help him understand the potteries dialect better lol
Dave.
Shall I take photos and do a tutorial?
Eric
Yes please that would be great!
bothyman
13-03-2006, 22:11
Another One ??????????
>> http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/original-Witney-Point-Blankets-4-Point-in-red-NEW-tipi_W0QQitemZ4446571918QQcate goryZ20452QQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem
MickT