View Full Version : Bothy Bags?
Has anyone got any experience of the 4-person bothy bags http://www.terra-nova.co.uk/terra/bothy.shtml
Do they have any real advantage over regular bashas (and foil blankets for emergency use)? And are they worth the extra weight/bulk?
(And another thought after having read ChrisKavanaugh's tarp tale,:yikes:, is is reasonable to expect the bothy to fold-up and fit back in its little bag again after use???)
MagiKelly
17-02-2004, 23:32
This months issue of Outdoor Photography has a review of a veriaty of these bags and they rated them highly useful. It may be more relevant for open enviroments in the hills where there is less cover. Other than that I can't comment as I have never used one.
I have found then to be a excellent bit of kit if you are out with someone else. They are especially good when there is no available cover or any areas to get shelter out of the wind when you stop for something to eat or to have a brew.
I used mine last year when I came across a German couple one of which thought it would be good to go for a swim in the tran at the top of devils kitchen in Ogwen. She would have suffered without the shelter/bothey to shelter in.
If you go on your Mountain Leader course they tend to recommend them now if you are working with groups.
Hope that helps
Richie
Devil's Kitchen isn't somewhere I'd associate normally with going for a swim!!!! Seemas that when going int the mountaisn you have to carry kit to cover other's ...
Snowdonia does see it's fair share of people unprepared ... I've seen tourists entering the hills with using tourist leaflets as maps and wearing flip-flops :shock:
I used mine last year when I came across a German couple one of which thought it would be good to go for a swim in the tran at the top of devils kitchen in Ogwen. She would have suffered without the shelter/bothey to shelter in.
I tell you I thought the same. I even took a picture as I couldn;t believe what I was seeing. :lol:
You are right about taking kit into the hills to cover others. I have found on more than one occasion I have left with a heavy pack to return with a light one and a few other people wearing my kit!!
I tend to always carry enough equipment in the hills to get me out of trouble. As I have a lot of friends on the Owgen and Llanberis MRT's and wouldn't be able to live it down if I had to call them out!! Thats for sure..
:-D
(And another thought after having read ChrisKavanaugh's tarp tale,:yikes:, is is reasonable to expect the bothy to fold-up and fit back in its little bag again after use???)
Just stuff it in, like you would a sleeping bag.
I've got a 2-man one and it's brilliant out on the hill where there's no cover. Not designed to sleep or cook in, they're held up & in shape by your body. Quick to use and pack away, they get warm quick with 2 inside and keep the rain off your sandwiches! And yes, it does pack back into the pocket!
A great buy for hill-walkers!
Ted W
I've got a 2-man one and it's brilliant out on the hill where there's no cover. Not designed to sleep or cook in, they're held up & in shape by your body. Quick to use and pack away, they get warm quick with 2 inside and keep the rain off your sandwiches! And yes, it does pack back into the pocket!
A great buy for hill-walkers!
Ted W
Ditto
They have a couple of small clear plastic windows too, just so you can feel smug watching everyone else get wet. :twisted:
You can use your rucsack as the "second person" if you are out on your own.
I've got a 2-man one and it's brilliant out on the hill where there's no cover. Not designed to sleep or cook in, they're held up & in shape by your body. Quick to use and pack away, they get warm quick with 2 inside and keep the rain off your sandwiches! And yes, it does pack back into the pocket!
A great buy for hill-walkers!
Ted WCheers! One more question - what do you sit on inside it - just on the ground or does it sort of tuck under?
And does it not feel, well, a little odd sitting in this large bag when other walkers go by? :oops:
More importantly ... could you blow away if the wind picked up!!!! :shock: I'd imagine that putting one person into a bothy designed for 8 or 12 might make this a credible issue in high wind.
They have sewn in seats. You pull the bag over your heads, put the seat under your backside, sitdown, then all lean back to tension the bag.
They have sewn in seats. You pull the bag over your heads, put the seat under your backside, sitdown, then all lean back to tension the bag.
That sold it! Cheers, Martin!
Glad to be of help! :-D 8-)
A couple of interesting points worth noting.
1) They make a microclimate of their own in this area-in other words you can end up getting very hot and sweaty.
2) They are no use for a casualty who either can't sit up or is unconsious/has broken bones-if you are taking a group out it is is wise to carry a cheap orange emergency bag as well!
3)I have attached a long piece of cord to the opening so that i can attach it to something solid before opening-in windy conditions when you are trying to set it up-it inflated like a baloon and can be very powerful!
Just a few things i have found.
Mark
A couple of interesting points worth noting.
1) They make a microclimate of their own in this area-in other words you can end up getting very hot and sweaty.
2) They are no use for a casualty who either can't sit up or is unconsious/has broken bones-if you are taking a group out it is is wise to carry a cheap orange emergency bag as well!
3)I have attached a long piece of cord to the opening so that i can attach it to something solid before opening-in windy conditions when you are trying to set it up-it inflated like a baloon and can be very powerful!
Just a few things i have found.
MarkThat's good info thanks.
Definitely had second thoughts now...
Think we'll stick with our basha/bivvi rolls, which have the advantage that the kids are used to using them and we discussed it as a family and came to the conclusion that it was better to stay self-sufficient in terms of kit rather than relying on something communial.
for what little bulk and weight there is with a group shelter, no reason why you shouldn't carry both.
cheers, and.
for what little bulk and weight there is with a group shelter, no reason why you shouldn't carry both.
cheers, and.Or I'll just shove it in Adi's pack (along with the booze! :-P)
I must admit the girls really didn't like the idea of not having their own kit, in case the parent with the bothy fell of a cliff or something ... :yikes: (they're so independent they probably wouldn't even notice if I did! :o):)
Or I'll just shove it in Adi's pack (along with the booze! :-P)
Only if i get to use the airing cupboard!!!! :rolmao:
I would take the bothey as a extra bit of kit, for use on the move. As already said it's only a very temporary shelter. I only ever use mine when there is no cover from the elements and I don't want to go done with exposure.
And for the weight and price definitely worth getting one.
Richie
A couple of interesting points worth noting.
1) They make a microclimate of their own in this area-in other words you can end up getting very hot and sweaty.
2) They are no use for a casualty who either can't sit up or is unconsious/has broken bones-if you are taking a group out it is is wise to carry a cheap orange emergency bag as well!
3)I have attached a long piece of cord to the opening so that i can attach it to something solid before opening-in windy conditions when you are trying to set it up-it inflated like a baloon and can be very powerful!
Just a few things i have found.
Mark
I'm not sure what you mean about being no use for an unconcious casualty Mark - They're about the only thing that you can use if you cant move a casualty! You make them as comfortable as you can on the ground and then open the bothy bag over them and whoever is treating them. No-one needs to move and the casualty is covered instantly.
Have you tried to put an unconcious person into a poly survival bag? Not easy. How about someone with a suspected spinal injury? You'd do more harm than good. Try wrestling someone with a broken pelvis into one and see what names you get called!
Bothy bags (I still call them KISUs) are life savers on the hill, I've been using them for more years than I care to remember - but I would still recommend that if you're not carrying sleeping bags/bivvy bags, then each individual should carry a survival bag as well.
George
George
George,
I own the two person shelter, and i can't think of a technique to hold the shelter up around a casualty laying down. If you do know a technique for putting the shelter up and holding it up, then i would be very interested to know how-I take groups of scouts walking and we carry both, the bothy bags are usually used for lunch stops to keep the kids warm!
Mark
Hello Kathie
This method of pre prepared survival was covered on some survival courses i've done, including practical exercises in the event of casualty use. It was cosidered when out with a group you took both - personal survival bag and group bothy bag.
Bonus of group bothy bag was group containment, monitering onset thermal illness and much better for moral - both would be very difficult to control with people in their own survival bags.
A responsible group leader in the mountains would carry a small rope and the bag would be secured to something to anchor, also alot of models do not have built in seats so you sit on your rucksack.
Since the survival coureses, i have used bothy bags exactly as trained and in very bad conditions, they were fantastic and can be the difference between life or death.
Max
My 2-person Terra Nova bothy bag has "pockets" in the roof that I imagine are for slotting in extended walking poles as "tent poles". These would obviously hold the thing more upright and taut in a one-user or, maybe, a casualty situation. Never tried it!
Ted W
Hi Kathie,
I used to live up in the lakes when I was a lad and remember one of the mountain rescue guys showing us how to use a large 6 seater version of these. It packed away into it's integral bumbag. On an exposed windy hillside it made a terrific difference. The temperature inside went up several degrees.
I was thinking of it when my daughters and I stopped to eat in a really windy spot at the weekend. I set up my tarp as a windbreak which was vital, but it isn't big enough for three and because it isn't enclosed, you don't get the temperature rise. Now the girls know why Dad insisted on hats and gloves !
I think these shelters are very practical and effective if you're a regular in the hills and walk with others. Cheers.
Mark
I must admit I'm not a fan of the 2 person bags at all - for little additional weight and bulk you could carry one designed for 6 people. In my opinion if you are out with a group you should have a bag big enough to shelter the whole group, they make them big enough to hold 12 and up.
If you can get 6 seated people in it you can have one lying down casualty plus 2 or even 3 treating them. Putting crossed walking poles in an X shape at one end or even a pile of rucsacs will keep it high enough to avoid too much hassle.
Max's idea of having everyone inside the shelter to help with morale and to allow group control and monitoring is right - but I would go further though and take 2 large bags per group - each one big enough to contain the whole group. If someone has an accident they can be dealt with in one while the rest of the group are kept safe in the other. It's not a good thing to have otherwise fit and healthy people sitting watching when you're trying to treat a casualty - I've been there on many occassions and it can cause a lot of upset for all concerned. You don't want to be dealing with people fainting when you're trying to deal with a more serious casualty.
George
Hello - this is a great thread :-D
Thats how we did it on the survival course , if i remember right there was 8 in the group and 2 instructors, the instructors and casualy in one shelter (casualty confidence) and rest of group in another, there was a lot more skills than this to the exercises we did ie, hot food and drink without stoves or naked flames, signalling and sending for help, casualty evacuation, etc, Can't remember bothy shelter sizes, but they were perfect for the exercises we did.
I've got 2 now though, 1 x2 person( terra nova) for on my own and 4 person ( outdoor designs)when with my mate. I also carry a blizzard pack.
The leaders did use sticks to support the casualty bothy, can't rember how :-?
Maxmountains
Thanks for all your helpful advice everyone. :-D I'm definitely going to get one now (as an additional piece of kit rather than any kind of replacement). Your posts have made me look back on a few emergencies that I've dealt with over the years and realized that a bothy bag would have been a fast and easy shelter solution had I possessed one at the time.
I'm trying to research colors atm, would prefer green or dpm (if there is such a thing, anyone?) Not keen on dayglo orange as it's too easy to look like an emergency case when you've just stopped for a cuppa. Had a mountaiin rescue chopper come down to investigate once when the kids opened up a foil blankie to keep warm while I cooked lunch (bloody thing put out my stove! :-x)
Hello Kath
Outdoor designs and Terra nova do a green, never come across dpm though.
Good luck and safe adventures with the kids :-D
Maxmountains
George,
Interesting to know! We (the scout group) have a couple of the larger ones but they are very old and are carried more for thew novelty value-it keeps the kids interested if they have somewhere warm to stop for lunch! The two person one is me and my father use when we go walking!
Kathie-the terra nova bothy is a lime green-which is better than day glo orange but still sticks out!
Mark