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Shewie
10-01-2006, 15:45
A bit of a dodgy subject but something which I feel I should air to you all so I can gauge my reaction and get some advice at the same time.

A number of friends of mine who are generally decent folk have taken it upon themselves to destroy native creatures in the woodlands near to my home. I myself have joined them in the past for vermin control within a farm environment mainly focussing on rabbitts and rats - sometimes woodpigeon.
But recently they have gone after a particularly large badger set containing around 12 - 15 holes many of which appear to be active. They are arming themselves with items such as lead pipe, golf clubs and baseball bats - which personally I find outrageous and sick in the head. Obviously I have declined their offers to join them on their evening jaunts and as far as I`m aware they haven`t yet caught one the unfortunate little guys.
I`ve heard them discussing such things as "atomising" which I believe is the act of filling the badger holes with flammable gases and then lighting them and clubbing to death anything that appears from the holes.
I personally find this all a bit sick and wondered if anybody could shed some light on the laws regarding this kind of thing.
Any advice on talking to these people with a look to getting it stopped would be useful.



:Thinkingo

xairbourne
10-01-2006, 15:54
Protection of Badgers Act 1992

http://www.opsi.gov.uk/ACTS/acts1992/Ukpga_19920051_en_1.htm

check out the link (dont mess with the badgers)

led
10-01-2006, 15:54
It's a difficult one, because it sounds unlikely that you are going to have a reasoned conversation with them. What about talking to your local badger group (eg http://www.sybadgergroup.f9.co.uk/) and tell them your concerns. They might sort things out.

fa11en ange1
10-01-2006, 15:57
Take a look at THIS (http://www.badger-killers.co.uk/law.html).

Depending how close you are to these friends I would consider one of two actions. First if they are good friends I would express your concerns and draw their attention to the law. However if this likely to result in any form of reprisal or if they are merely acquaintances rather than friends it may be better to report them anonamously to both the Police and RSPCA.

Topcat02
10-01-2006, 15:59
Disgusting. Badgers have a tough enough life at the best of times. :rant:

If they are planning on using clubs, pipes, etc on the badgers, how exactly were you exterminating rabbits, rats, and pigeons. I assume this was done in a humane manner?

torjusg
10-01-2006, 16:05
If they don't listen, report it to the police. Early cruelty to animals is considered one of the main signs of psycopathy. Cruelty is addictive and in time it may grow into a seriously perverse habit.

I know the problem with badger cruelty. Some former freinds of mine cornered (while drunk) a badger, stabbed it with a bowie knife and killed it by jumping on it's head. Disgusting and disrespectful!

Torjus Gaaren

scanker
10-01-2006, 16:08
If you think they're in the wrong (which I think you do from what you've said) and they're your friends, then you should be able to tell them your thoughts.

If that's not the case, then maybe you should change your friends? I don't want to be offensive, but my friends wouldn't do such a thing. If they did, they'd no longer be my friends, simple as that.

I'd try to dissuade them from such action, pointing out the laws that have been mentioned which are in place to protect the badgers. If it was me, I'd be thinking of contacting the wildlife officer at your local police station, or the RSPCA.

outdoorcode
10-01-2006, 16:23
Report them to the police & Rspca, and change friends would be my advice

weekend_warrior
10-01-2006, 16:24
Report them to the police & Rspca, and change my friends would be my advice

Couldn't agree more! Do what you know is right....

Lurch
10-01-2006, 16:32
Report them to the police & Rspca, and change friends would be my advice

Yup. Without question.
I'm not sold on the Badger Protection thing but the methods suggested here are disgusting. No true sportsman would even consider doing these things.

Shewie
10-01-2006, 16:35
Topcat

As far as culling the rabbits and rats - we used air rifles for the rabbitts and a fast poison for the rats. All above board and there was no element of cruelty involved.

I think I shall have to have words as most of you are as shocked as myself. I`ve grown up all my life with these people and the last thing I want is to see them locked up - it`s sad to see them go down this route though all the same and it should be stopped. A quiet word at first followed by a conversation with the RSPCA I think.

Thanks for your comments.

Hellz
10-01-2006, 16:36
Report them to the police & Rspca, and change friends would be my advice
Absolutely!

There is no way my conscience would allow me not to take action.

Hellz

Wolfie
10-01-2006, 16:36
If you are worried about your "mates" finding out you reported them call Crimestoppers on 0800 555111 to report the offence, then you don't have to give your personal details.

Personally I'd have no worries about reporting them to the Police. These are not people you want to call your friends.

jdlenton
10-01-2006, 16:37
I wouldn't even enter into conversation with these disgusting individuals. Try and find out when and where they will be attempting there hideous pass time and make sure the get caught red handed.

James

weekend_warrior
10-01-2006, 16:43
....and God help them if the badger gets one in first, they can do some serious damage. We had something similar happen not far from me - Police and RSPCA took a very dim view, two of 'em got locked up

familne
10-01-2006, 16:51
A bit of a dodgy subject but something which I feel I should air to you all so I can gauge my reaction and get some advice at the same time.

A number of friends of mine who are generally decent folk have taken it upon themselves to destroy native creatures in the woodlands near to my home. I myself have joined them in the past for vermin control within a farm environment mainly focussing on rabbitts and rats - sometimes woodpigeon.
But recently they have gone after a particularly large badger set containing around 12 - 15 holes many of which appear to be active. They are arming themselves with items such as lead pipe, golf clubs and baseball bats - which personally I find outrageous and sick in the head. Obviously I have declined their offers to join them on their evening jaunts and as far as I`m aware they haven`t yet caught one the unfortunate little guys.
I`ve heard them discussing such things as "atomising" which I believe is the act of filling the badger holes with flammable gases and then lighting them and clubbing to death anything that appears from the holes.
I personally find this all a bit sick and wondered if anybody could shed some light on the laws regarding this kind of thing.
Any advice on talking to these people with a look to getting it stopped would be useful.



:Thinkingo

This is absolutely despicable. Badgers are fully protected under law as others have pointed out. It is a serious offence to harm them or their sett in any way without a licence. Report them IMMEDIATELY to the police, rspca, local badger group etc. do it anonymously if you have to but do it now! Let them know when and where they plan to carry out the next attack so they can be caught in the act.

This really makes my blood boil, I would give mindless idiots like this a taste of their own medicine if it were legal:AR15firin:AR15firin:AR15 firin

daveymonkey
10-01-2006, 17:01
What a world to live in when people do this, its makes me sick, we should all chip in so they can go polar bear hunting with a pen knife.

weekend_warrior
10-01-2006, 17:03
What???? :yikes:

..and waste a penknife! ;)

RovingArcher
10-01-2006, 17:09
Sorry to say this, but it sounds to me like they are out for the bloodlust and if it were me in your place, they would be turned in to the authorities. Because any man that will club an animal for fun, will abuse a child or woman in anger.

Jamie
10-01-2006, 17:18
No true sportsman would even consider doing these things.

I would suggest that no true humane person would consider doing that sort of thing - it really is totally reprehensible and revolting behavious. And we consider our society civilised?

some police do have a countryside/environmental crimes section (usually a pc who does it in conjunction with 'normal' policing duties)

Ogri the trog
10-01-2006, 17:44
....and God help them if the badger gets one in first, they can do some serious damage.

Yup, I've read some horrific stories about injured badgers causing great pain to the perpetrators. No-way can I condone this action - get them reported.

Ogri the trog

JonnyP
10-01-2006, 18:23
Just picked up on this.........I know there has been a lot in the news about badgers causing problems to cattle with the TB, but this is know excuse (if that is why they are doing it). Last year I had the pleasure of seeing badgers close up in the wild for the first time in my life, they are amazing and beautiful creatures that should be left well alone. I am in full agreement with the previous threads.
REPORT THEM to the authorities. Maybe you can do it so your so called friends don't know its you who is reporting them. Good on you for listing it here so others can comment, but please go further and let others know who will do something about it. Good luck................Jon

C_Claycomb
10-01-2006, 18:53
If you try to warn these people that what they are doing is wrong, could get them in a lot of trouble, and that you don't approve, then if they are caught at it they will probably suspect you said something.

I think you will probably lose them as friends anyway. If you say nothing and they carry on, will you really want to be around them anymore?

How old are they? Its still sick, but teenagers can do some pretty stupid things because they haven't thought them through.

demographic
10-01-2006, 19:08
For me theres no grey in this issue at all.
What they are planning to do is just wrong and thats it.

Don't get me wrong as I have gone lamping for rabbits and hares so I am not a tree hugging, tofu scoffing vegan but theres NO excuse for battering badgers.

Also the research into TB infection showed that the badger culls actually increased the problem as the surviving badgers simply moved into another area and spread infection further.

martin
10-01-2006, 20:24
Take the lead pipe off them and give them a thick ear with it. And that is the polite reply.

Wayne
10-01-2006, 21:01
Your in a difficult situation. These people have been your friends for years and you have conflicting emotions. You no its wrong otherwise you would not have opened this thread. It is hard to drop your friends in the mire but they have judged themselves by their actions.

You do have to be discreet though and inform the police and RSPCA quietly. people willing to smash badgers with lead pipes and golf clubs are likely to take it personally if they feel you grassed them up.

Please do the right thing i have been a sett monitor for my local badger group for years and they a wonderful creatures. No animal dseserves such a painful death.

Razorstrop
10-01-2006, 21:02
They need reporting and God forbid if I ever come across someone doing that when I am out and about.


Either way it needs stopping now.

Mr Strop

Goose
10-01-2006, 21:34
I have done and do some strange things (to some) including shooting, which some people would find as wrong as everyone finds the idea of what these people want to do, this a seperate issue.
Getting kicks from just killing in the most bloodthirsty way possible is totally wrong, by anyones standards.
Do these friends play gory computer games? What will they move on to, killing their granny for a few quid, trying to kill their whole family so they can be adopted by a rich family? These are two stories out of todays newspaper, I bet the teenagers that committed those crimes will have started out hurting/killing animals for fun.
I agree with the majority of posts(all?), if you can't talk them out of it you don't want them as friends, and even if you don't take part but stay and listen to them planning and bragging about it later, without reporting it, you will be accepting their behaviour, so encouraging it to possibly move up a gear.

spoony
10-01-2006, 21:43
report to rspa and police, enough said, cant believe you havent already done so, this kind of behaviour doesnt even warrent a thread, and you shouldnt even need us to tell you what to do for gods sake,

monkey_pork
10-01-2006, 22:09
For me theres no grey in this issue at all.
What they are planning to do is just wrong and thats it.

Don't get me wrong as I have gone lamping for rabbits and hares so I am not a tree hugging, tofu scoffing vegan but theres NO excuse for battering badgers.

Also the research into TB infection showed that the badger culls actually increased the problem as the surviving badgers simply moved into another area and spread infection further.

Actually ... I am a tofu scoffing, vegan tree hugger, but I'd have absolutely no hesitation in the application of summary justice if I encountered such activity. My lifestyle may be one of compassion, but it doesn't extend to these people. Like everyone else here, it would be unconscionable to do anything other than to report them and let the law run it's course.

I recall Ben Bradshaw MP saying this about the TB related trial culls during last summer. I seem to recall that the Radio 4 'Today' program carried the interview. The cull simply opened up areas, which were then quickly filled by wandering badgers, and didn't actually solve the TB problem ...

Good luck in resolving this.

george
10-01-2006, 22:30
Actually ............snip snip ........I'd have absolutely no hesitation in the application of summary justice if I encountered such activity. My lifestyle may be one of compassion, but it doesn't extend to these people. Good luck in resolving this.

Plus 1 monkeypork.

george

redcollective
10-01-2006, 23:00
Head to a payphone mate, call the RSPCA national cruelty and advice line on 0870 55 55 999, give them a grid ref and move on. You can find other friends to go rabbitting with. I hope it all works out for you.

Nemisis
11-01-2006, 00:38
Or type up a grid ref here i'm sure notice will get through to the right authorities and separate you completly
Dave.

Labrador
11-01-2006, 08:55
All of the above!
I shoot & fish but like all true sportsmen (& women) I find wanton cruelty abhorent.
There has been a proven scientific link (although I don't know the specifics it was reported in the shooting press as PETA wanted to use their own interpretation of the report against legitimate sportsmen) linking early cruelty to animals with violent crime i.e. assault, rape & murder often of a particularly sadistic nature.
I think you have no choice but to go to the Police with this & speak to them about your concerns (or speak to then via Crimestoppers if you wish to remain anonymous), also report it to the RSPCA. Dealing with this incident in the proper manner may prevent something far worse in the fufure.

Perhaps you could let us all know of the outcome of how you deal with this very delicate situation?

spoony
11-01-2006, 11:07
Or type up a grid ref here i'm sure notice will get through to the right authorities and separate you completly
Dave.

Hey thats a good idea lets post the grid ref to a badger set on a public forum, shewie do the right thing, MODS pull this thread, cant believe other threads get pulled and you let this run, :confused: :confused:

RovingArcher
11-01-2006, 16:15
My gut reaction is that the original poster doesn't want these people to be found out. Fortunately, this has been placed on the table and made public. The original posters location is known, if accurately displayed and contacting the authorities in that region to let them know about a possible crime taking place should be in order. In fact, I would be surprised if it hadn't already been done and I would be ashamed if it hasn't already been done.

Shewie
11-01-2006, 19:05
Just to give you an update on this ......

I`ve contacted the RSPCA today and explained my position and the leisurely pursuits of my so called "friends". I`ve given them the grid ref for the set and I`ve also spoken to the landowner who knows exactly who the offenders are. He was equally shocked at what I told him (and it takes a lot to shock an elderly farmer) and said he`d be talking to his sons regarding the matter.
The RSPCA informed me that they would work with the farmer to prevent the cruellty carrying on.

I`ll keep you posted

:(

spoony
11-01-2006, 19:16
well done you did the right thing, :You_Rock_

Razorstrop
11-01-2006, 19:26
"Talking to his son's"...........................is that farmer speak for breaking out the iron bars :lmao: :lmao: :lmao:

I hope they get everything they deserve and more

Mr Strop

Fungi
11-01-2006, 19:31
:35: Well done!!!!!
Lets just hope something positive gets done.

I do love a happy ending! :lmao:

Goose
11-01-2006, 20:03
Good on you, sounds like they might get a bit of a shock if they try it now.

stuart f
11-01-2006, 21:53
Shewie, you must be applauded for what you,ve done,it takes great courage to stand up and be counted,i for one take my hat off to you,well done :35: :35:.

Tengu
12-01-2006, 00:34
I dont think you did the right thing. (but that is my opinion)

Largeley becauseI think the law concerning badgers is unjust.

People should not be locked up over an animal.

Having said that, I think badgers should be protected.

and having said that badgers do a lot of damage, they kill livestock and pets, rip up gardens and totaly demolished a friends beehives.

Maybe the people concerned had a bad experience with badgers?

(which is of course nothing compared to those killed on the roads...slow down!)

Goose
12-01-2006, 00:52
I dont think you did the right thing. (but that is my opinion)

Largeley becauseI think the law concerning badgers is unjust.

People should not be locked up over an animal.

Having said that, I think badgers should be protected.

and having said that badgers do a lot of damage, they kill livestock and pets, rip up gardens and totaly demolished a friends beehives.

Maybe the people concerned had a bad experience with badgers?

(which is of course nothing compared to those killed on the roads...slow down!)
I am not oversentimental about animals, and in my opinion it is not the killing of animals that has caused the revulsion by members but the manner and pointlessness of the intended act.
I don't think it is the fact they would be breaking the law, though in this case the law can and should be used, it is more to me about the type of people who would want to carry out killing in the manner described need to realise that it is not cool, or a laugh before they become desensitised to everything so go further and further to get their kicks.

familne
12-01-2006, 01:09
I dont think you did the right thing. (but that is my opinion)

Largeley becauseI think the law concerning badgers is unjust.

People should not be locked up over an animal.

Having said that, I think badgers should be protected.

and having said that badgers do a lot of damage, they kill livestock and pets, rip up gardens and totaly demolished a friends beehives.

Maybe the people concerned had a bad experience with badgers?

(which is of course nothing compared to those killed on the roads...slow down!)

Mods please close this thread before we get any more ridiculous comments like this!!

Tengu
12-01-2006, 01:43
Is it wrong to say that people should be put before animals?

And as for desensitising, I think in one way your right, but what about the often very nasty stuff put upon TV?

I remember watching a kids cartoon with a friend, and laughing over the violence, and they said. "but its not funny in real life"
And I said "you are right, but if we `really truly` detested violence we would not be watching it even in a cartoon."

(I hope I put that clearly enough; its late and Im tired.)

running bare
12-01-2006, 07:56
Or type up a grid ref here i'm sure notice will get through to the right authorities and separate you completly
Dave.

just piccked up on this one, can't believe your suggesting putting a grid reference to a badger set on an open forum, why not take out a full page advert in the dailies " badger baiters required" meet at grid *****. .

SHEWIE. my advice call RSPCA & POLICE ASAP and look for new friends

Wolfie
12-01-2006, 09:14
Is it wrong to say that people should be put before animals?



In my opinion these "people" are nothing more than animals themselves.

It is one thing to put the life of a human above that of an animal if the humans life is in danger but to suggest that this violence against an animal for what appears to be fun is OK is sick.

Remember we are all on this planet together. IMHO we should not place ourselves above the natural world or seperate ourselves from it. Nature should be treated respectively. After all, thats what I thought bushcraft is about.

It is because of acts like this, and IMO the attitude in the quote above that this planet is in the mess its in :banghead:

Sorry about the rant but I can't really believe that this has come up. Thankfully, the person involved seems to have done the right thing so some good may come from the post. Also it is reassuring to see so many people as shocked as myself.

Lurch
12-01-2006, 09:16
I dont think you did the right thing. (but that is my opinion)


Re-read the original post please.
It is not just the fact that it is badgers involved but the means employed.

Are we just feeding a troll here folks?

http://www.gunculture.net/images/hosted_image/troll.jpeg

Benefit of the doubt I s'pose.
:240:

C_Claycomb
12-01-2006, 09:39
After recieving a second request to close this thread, and having read some of the recent comments, I think it is time for it to be closed to further comment.

The original post was made, advice offered and acted upon in a manner which would seem to me in keeping with (almost) everyone's senitments.

Further discussion seems a little pointless.

No one is going and posting any grid references, so those that pointed out the problem with that, keep your hair on.

Tengu, might I suggest that you phrase your thoughts with more care. If you can't figure out why people here find what you say offensive and out of keeping, I really don't have the patience to spell it out for you. This is a quiet, friendly community, and you have just walked in and stuck your foot in your mouth.