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Pignut
10-01-2006, 13:31
Anything in the lincolnshire are planned

I have probably missed it if there is!

martin
10-01-2006, 20:30
Nothing has been planned in Lincolnshire as there doesn't seem to be many of us bushcrafters here. I think theres only me, you and your mate Kata here :lmao:
I'm always ready for a night round the fire and a good laugh.

Pignut
10-01-2006, 21:13
Looks like it might be the three of us then

Pignut
11-01-2006, 09:31
If anyone fancies a meet up in the lincolnshire area (Old Humberside region "Sunny Scunny")

Let me know I think I can probably put something together

kata
11-01-2006, 09:50
Go Pignut, Go Pignut :lmao:
You sorting something out up at primmy hill?

Pignut
11-01-2006, 09:53
Yes If peoople are interested.

There will probably be a charge of £1 per night as this is a scout campsite (Which has to be seen!!!)

But it is non profit and will go directly to the upkeep of the site

(Check katas Avatar, that was taken at the site in question)

martin
11-01-2006, 14:18
Where's Primmy Hill?

Pignut
11-01-2006, 14:36
Local camp site (Scout Run)

East of Scunthorpe

martin
11-01-2006, 14:38
Is it near Motelash Hill?

Pignut
11-01-2006, 14:41
Yep near there

martin
11-01-2006, 14:45
When are you thinking of doing it? If you need me to bring anything let me know, I can get enough fire wood to keep us going for about a year :D

Pignut
11-01-2006, 19:49
Couple of months probably May/June

Depends on the interest!

Wood wise there is plenty of windfall on site for collecting however feel free to bring a load!

fenman
11-01-2006, 19:49
I don't live far from Scunny,just up the road on the Yorks/Lincs border not far from Martin.Would it be ok if i came along to the meet?.

Pignut
11-01-2006, 19:58
Of course! it is open to anyone who is interested!

Thinking about it I don't know what skills i can offer! however....... I do enjoy a drink and an open fire! :D

martin
11-01-2006, 20:21
I've got plenty of gear for a fixed camp. 10 litre kettle, dutch oven, water billycans and the like. I'm very happy to bring them along for everyone to use.
I've got a 110 Defender to carry all the gear to the site if needed.
Fenman I'll be on the moors with Ken on Sunday morning if you fancy coming and doing a bit of work :yikes: Your welcome too Pignut, you can't beat a bit of volenteer work on a Sunday morning :lmao: plus there's a 6 wheeled ATV to play on :D

Pignut
11-01-2006, 20:25
would love to join you, however,

am visiting my new nephew this w/e down in Surry

Will join up on another occasion if it crops up

I have access to all of our scouting kit, and a pickup to bring it in (Kata willing)

depending on numbers again we may need your kit or landy to ferry kit

thanks for the offer!

fenman
11-01-2006, 20:43
Cheers Pignut it will be good to put some names to faces,as for skills i am fairly new to bushcraft though i have always been an outdoors person.
I will be at Brandy wharf for the apple tree wassailing on sunday Martin,there is a cider centre there to too so it should be good. :D :D :D :D.

Pignut
11-01-2006, 20:59
Brandy Wharf! Oh my lord!!!

:D :D Fond if not slightly blury memories of Brandy Wharf :lmao: :lmao:

fenman
11-01-2006, 22:12
I've heard some great stories about Brandy wharf :beerchug: .Most of em include someone falling over. :D :D :D

Pignut ; can you give me a rough idea where Primmy hill is,i can't find it on the map.Cheers

Fenman.

Pignut
12-01-2006, 08:36
The woods just next to Junction 4 of the M180,

Dont think it will be described as Primrose Hill on the map

It is part of the Nelthorpe Estate

fenman
12-01-2006, 17:46
Cheers mate,i will get the map out and have a look.

Fenman.

Scally
12-01-2006, 19:24
kata and pignut if your based up in sunny scunny then do you 2 brothers carl and neil whithead both scout based from that neck of the woods, neil is bushcraft based if so and im just over the border north notts near the trent can i come 2.

Pignut
12-01-2006, 20:50
if you are interested you are more then welcome!

Trevody
12-01-2006, 21:13
I’ve not been much of a regular visitor here (been very busy with work since last September) and feel a bit cheeky for asking :o , but I would be very interested in meeting up with a few of you at primrose warren, it’s a cracking little area.
I’m Ex forces with a little survival knowledge, I also know primrose warren very well, cycle past every day on the way to work and can possible lay my hands on some detailed orienteering maps of the place :cool: , used it a few times with the TA.
Would be happy to turn up early and help set things up. :)

Trev

cubankopite
12-01-2006, 22:36
i live in Grimsby (yes i know it is grim in Grimsby) if the invite for a meet is open to anyone.
i havn't been to any meets yet and provided it dosn't clash with work or the wife it would be good to meet up with like minded people

Pignut
14-01-2006, 19:54
Yes mate open to all!

:D :D :rolleyes: even if you are from Grimsby :lmao: :yelrotflm

Never been to a meet either so I am probably the wrong person to be planning this!

as it seems we have a few interested now I will look at dates and get something booked! (I takle it you are all happy to pay the pound a night)

Will post a date Soon!

martin
14-01-2006, 20:00
Oh no not a Cod Head :lmao: :lmao:
And before I get shot down in flames SWMBO is one and so is my Gran :eek:

Stew
14-01-2006, 20:18
Oh no not a Cod Head :lmao: :lmao:
And before I get shot down in flames SWMBO is one and so is my Gran :eek:

Ahem. ;)




So where abouts in Gy are you?

philaw
15-01-2006, 14:35
I'll be back in Hull in 4-6 weeks, and I'll be up a for a weekend or two, for sure. We shouldn't let the lads in east anglia have all the fun.

halo
16-01-2006, 19:31
hia pignut could you pencil me in provisionally as the dates might clash with the north meet i'm in notts so not too far away,by the sound of it the woods you're describing are the ones at the top of the a15 is that right if so is there plenty of places to pitch a tarp and hamock?



halo

cubankopite
16-01-2006, 23:03
yeh i know i'm technically a cod head cos i live in gy, but i was brought up in a little village well outside fishy town so that makes me a carrot cruncher......honest

in reply to stew i live near the market hotel area if that means anything to you

martin
16-01-2006, 23:14
I know where abouts you are mate. Do you ever get in Bradley Wood? I used to go there when I was visiting SWMBO before she moved in with me. She lived in Waltham. What village did you come from?

Pignut
17-01-2006, 10:27
hia pignut could you pencil me in provisionally as the dates might clash with the north meet i'm in notts so not too far away,by the sound of it the woods you're describing are the ones at the top of the a15 is that right if so is there plenty of places to pitch a tarp and hamock?



halo


Done!

It is the wood at the top of the A15

Yes there is tones of room for tarps and hamoks, Tents, Tipi, whatever you like

If you detail the date of the north meet I will ensure it does not clash

halo
17-01-2006, 16:53
hia pignut,just checked back through this thread and the dates wont clash as the north meet's at the end of april so thats probably a defo for me,cheers mate


halo :)

cubankopite
22-01-2006, 00:05
yeh martin i do get out to bradley woods now and then but its a bit too popular for me i prefer woods with less people or burnt out cars in
my folks live out at a little village called East Halton if that means anything to you i enjoy the woods out there
i know waltham quite well my sister in law's family live opposite the windmill it's a nice village

martin
22-01-2006, 13:06
Yeah I know East Halton, it's a good spot for Codling fishing. I know what you mean about Bradley Woods, it's a damn shame because it's a lovely wood. There's some excellent Hazel in there and a really good show of Wood anemone in the spring.

Woods Wanderer
02-02-2006, 17:50
hi im new here but i live near lincoln itself does anyone else? so far i know the meet is at primrose hill scunthorp near may/june ish but i dont have a clue how to get there since the meet sis just of the junction 4 , m180 is there an entrance t the wood and are there any villages ner by or bus stops. Has anyone ever stayed in the old wood near scellingthorpe its public land so i think its legal is a lovly wood and i resently found deer beds and traks near my shelter i also got stalked by a curios fox near there which was amazing and i doubt it will ever happen again it was a vey red colour for the and i hope i can contribute more than i can take from this forum

Pignut
07-03-2006, 13:52
All

The date for this meet has been provisionally booked!

Friday June 16th to Sunday June 18th

Arriving 6pm or later on the Friday, leaving at or befor 12:00 noon on the Sunday. or you can turn up on the Sat if this suits better!

I would like all attending to be 18 year of age or over unless accompanied by an adult (Who is legally responsible)

All who attend do so at there own risk!

The rules of the camp site are that all fires should be on alters or fireplaces (Provided)

No trees can be cut down (Living or dead) there is tonnes of windfall at the camp!

There is running drinking water on site but no shower facilities

Chemical toilets will be provided and should be used! (No acting like a bear!)

Other info:

You will suply all of your food and drink (Bar water) for the weekend!

Your own tentage sleeping facilitys and anything else you require for the weekend

Other campers may be on site and should be treated with respect at all times

There is a cost to the camp of £2 per head per night and a nominal fee for day visitors, this is non profit and goes directly to the campsite for maintainance and running costs

There is a morrisons supermarket aprox 2 miles away and the town of Broughton is apox 2 miles from the gate for any supplies you require

Any questions please pm me

Trevody
07-03-2006, 20:46
Count me in for that weekend and as I live with in spitting distance, if you need a hand setting anything up just give me a shout as I would love to help out anywhere I can

Trev :D

martin
07-03-2006, 21:18
I'll be there Saturday morning to Sunday morning. I'd be there on the Friday but I'll be at work until 10pm ( unless I can wangle the day off ). If you need any help with anything Pignut let me know. If any fire wood is needed I can fill my Landy with birch logs and take them over sometime before hand.

Pignut
08-03-2006, 09:07
Thanks all!

Will let you know what is required nearer the time!

The list so far is

Pignut
Kata
Trevody
Martin
Featherman208
Fenman
Neanderthol

featherman208
08-03-2006, 21:38
hi fellas,good to see things in the planning .count me in that weekend i'll be there.just on the note of fire wood to save some lugging about ,the forestry contractors have just clear felled a large area a couple of hundred yards from the camp huts in there.looking at it there is plenty of odds and sods of off cuts [hard and soft]kicking around but would be worth a wander round nearer the date to check.it's a cracking little area and should be a good weekend.
if you need any thing basecampish like water jerry cans ,tilley lamps to a land rover 110 give us a shout and i'll endevour to help,should be free to help set up anything on the friday afternoon if needed.cheers for now..dave

fenman
09-03-2006, 20:12
I should be ok for all day saturday through to sunday,so count me in please.
Fenman.

Neanderthal
12-03-2006, 08:37
Hi Pignut,

Thanks for organizing this 'local' meet, hope there is room for a body from Leeds. Should be there from Friday night.

Nice overview on Multimap, if these are the right woods.
(http://www.multimap.com/map/photo.cgi?client=public&X=495000&Y=409000&width=700&height=400&gride=&gridn=&srec=0&coordsys=gb&db=freegaz&pc=&zm=0&scale=25000&up.x=357&up.y=5)

Have you got a grid reference of the actual camp site? Don't want to waste too much time wandering about tracking everyone down. 8-)

Cheers

Neanderthal

Pignut
12-03-2006, 09:43
So long as you can find the main gate (J4 of the m180) next to the J4 Cafe

It will be signposted from there!

Will look into getting a grid ref!

Pignut
13-03-2006, 06:39
This is the woodland here (http://www.multimap.com/map/photo.cgi?client=public&X=495000&Y=407500&width=500&height=300&gride=&gridn=&srec=0&coordsys=gb&db=freegaz&pc=&zm=0&scale=50000&in.x=8&in.y=11) Just south of the golf course.

I have outlined the area in red on the picture below, the green dot is the enterance to the site. as I said above our area will be signposted from here.

http://i14.photobucket.com/albums/a318/DavidCribb/Primmyhill.gif

Just as a foot note, the campsite is now fully booked for us so there is no going back!

also any ideas on activities would be good! I think this should be an informal social gathering but any skills you can offer may be worth noting befor the event

Pignut
20-03-2006, 10:15
I would like to know what you guys would like to do on this meet, If anything so we can get it sorted?

Or are you all just happy to turn up andplay it by ear?

featherman208
20-03-2006, 23:41
don't mind what we do really,as a first meet it would be good to just have a socical gathering,get to know each other ,swap some skills and try them out.
play by ear usually works well.some may like to bring a project along, i know trevs likley to bring his axe hes refurbing.would probably be worth meeting up for a social beer a couple of times before the meet and bounce a few ideas round.

has anyone got anything specific they want to try their hand at or learn?.would be a good opportunity to mention it to assist the planning,equipment etc..
theres bound to be someone in the group thats a dab hand at what someone else wants to learn......cheers dave

kata
21-03-2006, 08:08
It would be great if I could go away from this camp knowing how to use a bow drill.... (think i can speak for pignut aswell).
After our drink with trev, I seem to remember that he has these magical powers :D :D

Pignut
21-03-2006, 09:59
Apart from bow drill (Thanks Kata) I would like a go at a pit oven (To see how others do it)

Trevody mentioned bunnies for this!

Would be good if someone could get hold of a few!

Other then that lets play it by ear!

(Would still be good to get a list of skills/ projects people would bring!)

featherman208
21-03-2006, 20:56
can soon sort a hangi pit oven for you,we had a cracker of one as a bbq in trevs back garden.
think it would be good to have a hangi on the go for a meal on the sat night. :)
bunnies should n't be a problem if we can get a shoot in before that weekend.
trev can bring the bow drill i'm sure.
better have some more harfs and spindles made trev i can see it getting some use.
i'd like to learn a bit more about plant medicines if anyone knows . :240:
know a bit but its never enough[spag!!!] :lmao:
have some good stuff for chemical fire lighting demos if any one wants to see it. :D
trev will tell you about the lecture i did teaching the t.a. trev photographed it ,,,,,well mostly the smoke anyway :eek:

Pignut
22-03-2006, 08:39
"Chemical fire lighting"

Cool!

Trevody
22-03-2006, 22:21
Yes Dangerous Dave :rolleyes:

I don't mind having ago at demoing the fire bow, but I'm sure there will be others at the meet far more experianced than me at it and Dave does do a good demo with various chemicals, just one word of warning,

STAND WELL BACK :eek:

opertunity for those mini flares :rolleyes:
We have a good story about obtaining chemicals don't we Dave, 'honesty officer its for my chickens' :D

Trev :D :lol:

Pignut
23-03-2006, 08:57
LOL!!! cant wait to here that one!

(Trev My inbox now has room if you want to re-send your message!)

featherman208
23-03-2006, 21:38
hey trev .....knock 'knock'.......

if i can get the right stuff guy faulks stand back.
know some good fires too,some sneeky ones that can't be seen even one that you can smelt metal on.
if the right stuffs about we can do a good line in shelter building and sneeky escape shelters,thats if anyone is interested in that sort of thing.
anyone interested in tracking /traping n fishing methods.
had a good sesh with trev tickling trout last year.
sould be able to have some good meets with every one having a different mix match of skills..look forward to it cheers dave

Pignut
24-03-2006, 10:50
Ah am starting to relax, There seems to be plenty of skills coming!!!!

featherman208
28-03-2006, 19:29
just thought i'd post something,keep the ball rolling an all that!
busy week at "work"this week ....! and it's only tuesday. :D
trev and myself have been tinkering as usual,yesterday we were experimenting making a fire piston,and forging a home made crook knife.
today we made fire!!!. :D :D .have been setting up some spindles and harfs for the firebow ready for the meet so everyone can have a go!
managed to get a few chemicals together :D :D for a firelighting demo would like some others but theres enough to be on with.
once upon a time you used to be able to get anything but nower days theres so many dodgey sods :nono: around that spoil it for the innocents. :(
cheers all..dave

featherman208
28-03-2006, 22:16
as i was saying pignut,when this post first started there were a few chipping in.
always looking for ideas n input!!!
Q.where did everybody go??????

halo
24-04-2006, 20:10
hia pignut,sorry i've not posted for a while,to be honest i forgot all about this meetup :buttkick: :nutkick: is it still on,not got any skill's to bring but it sounds like i could learn a great deal(do beers count as skills :D ) i can open a bottle with a cliper lighter :lmao: :lmao: ;)


paul
(halo)

Jackdaw
25-04-2006, 11:09
Will be pencilling this into my diary. Am based in Hull and will be looking forward to meeting some of you. Well, that's assuming I can get the time off for work.

Pignut
25-04-2006, 11:11
See you both there!

Neanderthal
02-05-2006, 21:19
Just had a great time at the Spring North meet, so looking forward to this one.

Did a few demos of making lightweight alchohol stoves from aluminium coke or beer cans which seemed popular. I'll be happy to demo this again (not just a beer drinking demo :) ).

I can bring a couple of Ivy bow drill sets for fire making if anyone is interested.

Neanderthal
03-05-2006, 08:22
What sort of trees are the woods at this site comprised of? This may determine what projects I work on.

Thanks

outdoorcode
03-05-2006, 09:44
I might be able to make this one too :)

kata
03-05-2006, 12:57
What sort of trees are the woods at this site comprised of? This may determine what projects I work on.

Thanks

Majority is pine, birch and sycamore, with a few others thrown in.....
Would be good to see some demos.

Pignut
06-05-2006, 09:08
Would be good to see you all there!

As for trees there is a huge selection if you are prepared to look

featherman208
09-05-2006, 22:57
as the boys said there plenty of mixed woodland to go at.
it's a cracking little area.
bring as many demos along as you like it's always nice to see something a little different.
bring somethings along for swaps too if you like.
if this all goes well as i'm sure it will,it would be good to make this a regular meet for the localish people maybe bimonthly or something,it's always good to meet other likeminded nutters.

myself and trev and looking around at a couple of other areas local to go too.
one we've used where we have shooting permission is around 3500 acres and has several small woods one is in a valley up on the wolds which also has a fresh spring running through it and a small pond.it's surrounded by rolling grass hills with plenty of bunnies were allowed to take.
i'm intending to speak to the landowner to see if i can invite a few people along,have fires etc,,
now this has wetted your appetite let's hope he says yes!!

Pignut
10-05-2006, 08:12
Sounds bloomin brilliant!

Trevody
11-05-2006, 07:06
Just had a great time at the Spring North meet, so looking forward to this one.

Did a few demos of making lightweight alchohol stoves from aluminium coke or beer cans which seemed popular. I'll be happy to demo this again (not just a beer drinking demo :) ).

I can bring a couple of Ivy bow drill sets for fire making if anyone is interested.

I for one would appreciate you bringing your fire bow kit along, I seemed to have been volunteered for demonstrating fire bow technique :eek:

Trev :D

halo
12-05-2006, 06:19
hey guy's do you know of any trout waters up near there,i'm on holliday the week of the meet to do some fishing?

halo

Trevody
12-05-2006, 16:43
Hi Halo
There is plenty of course fishing up this way, but can't say that I know of any trout rivers localy they are all fairly slow flowing.
I will ask around though

Trev :D

martin
12-05-2006, 21:06
There aren't any Trout rivers round here. There's a Trout Lake here (http://uk.multimap.com/map/browse.cgi?client=public&X=473000&Y=406000&width=700&height=400&gride=&gridn=&srec=0&coordsys=gb&db=&addr1=&addr2=&addr3=&pc=&advanced=&local=&localinfosel=&kw=&inmap=&table=&ovtype=&keepicon=&zm=0&scale=25000&up.x=289&up.y=3) .
There's tons of really good Pike fishing in the area, when you've caught some trout you can use it as bait :lmao:

halo
19-05-2006, 07:08
There aren't any Trout rivers round here. There's a Trout Lake here (http://uk.multimap.com/map/browse.cgi?client=public&X=473000&Y=406000&width=700&height=400&gride=&gridn=&srec=0&coordsys=gb&db=&addr1=&addr2=&addr3=&pc=&advanced=&local=&localinfosel=&kw=&inmap=&table=&ovtype=&keepicon=&zm=0&scale=25000&up.x=289&up.y=3) .
There's tons of really good Pike fishing in the area, when you've caught some trout you can use it as bait :lmao:


cheers martin but where is the lake in in regards to the meet,if it's close enough i might try and get a few hours on it before i come up friday we can try fresh trout mears style on an open fire friday nite,as to pike fishing i try to only use lures unless i'm on a res or a big lake.

paul(halo)

martin
20-05-2006, 23:53
The lake is at 53 33' 28"N 0 53' 37"W and the meet is at 53 32' 45"N 0 33' 28"W. That roughly 20 miles. If you download Google Earth and put in the coordinates for the lake there's a great shot of it. There's a big lake just down the road from the campsite with loads of pike and carp in (no trout) that is run by the local council. So you will not have any trouble getting a day ticket.

hammy
31-05-2006, 11:38
I'm interested in attending but would not know until the last munute if I could attend.
So could I just turn up one the day, I will try to give notice but my work at the moment is hitty missy, on the lines of can you do it tomorrow etc.
Cheers Dave.(BES)

Pignut
31-05-2006, 11:50
I'm interested in attending but would not know until the last munute if I could attend.
So could I just turn up one the day, I will try to give notice but my work at the moment is hitty missy, on the lines of can you do it tomorrow etc.
Cheers Dave.(BES)

No worries!

If you can make it great!!

hammy
31-05-2006, 12:00
Cheers will try my best.

clcuckow
12-06-2006, 00:38
Count me in for either a day visitor or camper (need to check with the old folks) as I am coming over to Scunny for Father's Day and for an Uncle's Birthday.

featherman208
12-06-2006, 21:32
see you there!!!

Neanderthal
13-06-2006, 13:07
Anyone got any Cramp Ball fungus to swap for an Ivy fire drill set at the weekend?

Once I've got some, no doubt I'll be finding the stuff all over the place. :)

Stu

Pignut
13-06-2006, 15:21
Yes will bring some extra along

kata
13-06-2006, 17:02
Anyone got any Cramp Ball fungus to swap for an Ivy fire drill set at the weekend?

Once I've got some, no doubt I'll be finding the stuff all over the place. :)

Stu

How many kilos do you want?? :) :)

Neanderthal
13-06-2006, 18:45
Kilos! No wonder I can never find any. :)

I'll bring a couple of bits of Iron Pyrite and flint if someone can supply charcloth to try as well. (See my sig.) :)

I don't think that I don't really 'know' something until I've done it myself so looking forward to finding out if things are as they say on the tin. :lmao:

martin
13-06-2006, 23:02
I'll bring some charcloth and I'll show you an easy way to make it. All you need is a beer can and a bit of cotton cloth. You bring the can of beer and after I've drunk it I'll show you how :lmao:

Pignut
14-06-2006, 08:58
All,

The gates to primrose hill will be open from about lunchtime on the friday. I will try to get some signs up to point you all in the right direction when you get there. The site you are looking for is the "New Motorway" site you can bring your vehicles onto the area where we are camping though It is frowned upon to drive them around site (4x4 boys you know who you are! :drive: :lmao: )

As always, as we are not a scouting group, you camp at your own risk (Self and kit) no responsibility can be taken for us by the scouting movement, though we are expected to abide by there rules.

Day visitors are also subject to a charge by the site, can't remember the charge. about 70p i think

Cheers all

See you there

Dave

martin
14-06-2006, 11:11
I'll be there about 22:30 so keep an eye out for me and have a cold beer waiting :lmao:

Pignut
14-06-2006, 11:17
No worries mate

outdoorcode
14-06-2006, 11:37
are dogs allowed? (thinking of bringing Dolly the bushcrafting pug) :D

Pignut
14-06-2006, 11:38
are dogs allowed? (thinking of bringing Dolly the bushcrafting pug) :D


As far as I know!

Pignut
15-06-2006, 07:40
http://i14.photobucket.com/albums/a318/DavidCribb/Newmotorwaylocation.jpg

This is a very poor scetch of location but it should give you some idea

clcuckow
16-06-2006, 10:41
Well I am definitely coming :D for Friday and Saturday night but well be disappearing during the day as I have family things in Scunny. Just so you know that I am not being aloof or anything it is just timing I was going to be coming over to Scunny anyway.

If this becomes a go-er the next one I will be there for the duration :D

Usless one springs up in Merseyside/Cheshire area (closer to home and further away from family ;) )

RAPPLEBY2000
16-06-2006, 16:03
check out the
Norwich & Norfolk thread
or the
East Anglia group thread

i have put details of an upcoming weekend camp,
it's open to anyone in the general east anglia area,
make sure you tell us if you want to come!

clcuckow
01-11-2006, 14:34
Just found this on my camera :D


http://www.christopher.cuckow.dsl.pip ex.com/pics/Scunny%20Group%20Pic.jpg

Any plans to do another one?

Scuba Pete
01-11-2006, 20:08
Scunthorpe is my home town. It has been many years since I was at primrose hill, lol. Ahh the memories in 2nd scunthorpe.

wanderinstar
24-12-2006, 15:07
Is this meet still going ahead in New Year and have any dates been set yet?