View Full Version : Etching Metal
shadow57
07-01-2006, 19:17
Metal Etching.
Here is a simple DIY way to etch metal.
Firstly you will need the following items.
1.PP9 9 volt battery.
2.Battery connector.
3.2 Crocodile clips.
4.Cotton buds
5.Table salt
6.Water
7.Plastic bottle top.
8.Nail varnish
9.Needle
Method.
1.Clean metal surface, degrease, and leave to dry
2.Put a thin coat of nail varnish onto the metal surface and let it dry.
3.Place some salt and water into the plastic lid.
4.Connect the Positive (Red) battery lead to the metal with the crocodile clip.
5.Connect the Negative (Black) lead to the cotton bud with the crocodile clip.
6.Gently scratch the pattern onto the metal surface using a needle.
7.Dip the cotton bud into the salt water, then gently wipe the scratched surface with the wet cotton bud.
Note: The crocodile clip on the cotton bud must touch the wet bud. The cotton bud will start to go black as metal is removed
SAFETY NOTE...Chlorine gas is given off during the reaction...so some ventilation is required :eek: :eek: :eek:
The final result when all the varnish is removed is... :D :D :D
Ogri the trog
07-01-2006, 20:06
Now that opens up some possibilities.
Rep points imminent
Ogri the trog
shadow57
08-01-2006, 16:54
I think I should have put this thread in the Sharp Tools forum Ed....Any chance of moving it please :o :o :o thanks John
Ogri the trog
08-01-2006, 17:25
I think I should have put this thread in the Sharp Tools forum Ed....Any chance of moving it please :o :o :o thanks John
I'm not so sure Shadow57 (though I don't want to influence a descision).
There are many metalic items that could be etched, not just knives.
ATB
Ogri the trog
shadow57
08-01-2006, 18:48
That's true Ogri, so I'm happy to leave it
But the main idea was to etch steel (iron).
If you apply the technique to other metals such as Titanium, Tin, Silver or Copper The process will need to be modified slightly.
Some of the goo (salts) that are produced at the electrodes may be harmful to humans...I,m not sure :rolleyes:
The gas that is given of when you use the above process is chlorine...used during World War 1.
Although there is only a small amount... it still makes me wheeze a bit
Thanks John ..... Cough.. Cough :lmao:
Infragreen
10-01-2006, 02:01
SWEET!
:You_Rock_
Is there an alternative to nail varnish? What is the active component of the varnish that seals off the metal?
There ought to be cheaper sources for it, other than those super expenive cosmetics.
Ogri the trog
15-01-2006, 10:55
Ketchup,
I think the idea of the nail varnish is as a "resist", which is a "skin" between the metal and the electrolite solution. This allows the pattern to be etched, only in the shape of which you sctatch through the nail varnish. At a guess, any sort of paint, normal varnish or even wax could be used.
I have yet to try it out though.
Ogri the trog
Platypus
15-01-2006, 10:58
I would think any type of varnish would do the job, it just has to be an electrical insulator.
The good thing about nail varnish however, is that is very easy to remove.
shadow57
15-01-2006, 14:07
Any varnish will do e.g. cellulose, shellac, polyurethane, or even a thin layer of araldite maybe super glue.. :D
Wax may be a bit dogey. You may rub some off with the cotton bud and expose more metal.
Nail varnish from the local market costs about £1 a bottle
John
does the etched metal bit go black by itself or do you 'ink' it after?
Excellent - ive been wanting to try to etch something on a blade Ive nearly finished.
How deep does the etch (?) go ?
:You_Rock_
shadow57
15-01-2006, 19:15
Hello Neiltoo and G4GHB
The etching goes very deep on high carbon steel.... if you keep it going for 5 minutes. you need to change the cotton buds as they get all clogged up with black goo. :o
The etching reaction makes it black :o
To get a good job....be careful with the cotton bud not to break off any extra varnish..
I am going to have a go at etching a salmon on a piece of steel. I will send in a photo when its done
OH YES :eek: BE CAREFUL WITH THE GAS THAT IS GIVEN OFF ITS CHLORINE GAS :eek:
It 's only a small amount but keep it ventilated
shadow57
16-01-2006, 20:20
I had a go etching my moura knife....it took 10 minutes and did not etch as deep as before...maybe battery is getting weak.
Will need to use 12 volt train transformer next time
Thats pretty impressive... good work
shadow57
16-01-2006, 22:22
Thanks.... :) Its nothing special...its just to demonstrate that it works John
Looks great - thanks for the info
Lost_Patrol
21-01-2006, 12:47
Great thread shadow :D I didn't know it was possible to do etching without professional tools.
Well worth a rep point. :)
:You_Rock_
Motorbike Man
21-01-2006, 13:06
Is there an alternative to nail varnish? What is the active component of the varnish that seals off the metal?
There ought to be cheaper sources for it, other than those super expenive cosmetics.
My local market has cheapo nail varnish at 25p a bottle. I bought some today to give this a whirl :)
Lost_Patrol
21-01-2006, 18:51
I tried my first attempt at etching today.....
Its far from perfect but I'm pleased for a first attempt. I think it looks a little better in real life - my pictures make everything look poor !
I used a cheap knife just in case :rolleyes:
http://i30.photobucket.com/albums/c302/Lost_Patrol_252/Etch1.jpg
shadow57
21-01-2006, 21:43
At last someone has done one...and it looks good too :D :D :D
I tried my first attempt at etching today.....
Its far from perfect but I'm pleased for a first attempt. I think it looks a little better in real life - my pictures make everything look poor !
It looks like a very professional finish to me :)
I had a go tonight too! - but my camera dosn't like taking pictures at night! :( (something to do with being past its bed time or low light levels or something!:lmao: )
Anyway was supprised how easy it was - the hardest bir was getting the nail varnish off again...... In fact it coats so well I have a nice pink etch! :o lol
Being a chicken I tried it on a junk knife I have that I use for my fire steel so it now looks quite fetching!
I'll take a piccie tommorow all being well!
At last someone has done one...and it looks good too :D :D :D
shadow57
21-01-2006, 22:25
Yep....I had the same problem....I suppose nail varnish remover is needed
John
Yep....I had the same problem....I suppose nail varnish remover is needed
John
Thats what i WAS using! :o :confused: :lmao:
Nail varnish remover, isn't that plain acetone?
Lost_Patrol
22-01-2006, 08:27
Yep....I had the same problem....I suppose nail varnish remover is needed
I used my wifes nail varnish remover and it came off in seconds. Maybe this was because the varnish didn't seem to set fully. The surface was hard but underneath it was still a little tacky - even after 2 hours. As I'm not a regular varnish user I don't know if this is normal ;)
shadow57
23-01-2006, 19:06
When I paint on the varnish I hold the blade near the fire to speed up the drying.
Takes only seconds to go brickhard :D
Lost_Patrol
23-01-2006, 20:45
Thanks Shadow I'll give that a try next time. :)
Big John
24-01-2006, 13:25
Firstly, fantastic thread, thanks Shadow.
I might be getting carried away here, but do you think it would be possible to etch out a branding iron face? I guess the etch would have to be a couple of mm deep for it to work, does that sound likely?
Motorbike Man
24-01-2006, 13:38
Firstly, fantastic thread, thanks Shadow.
I might be getting carried away here, but do you think it would be possible to etch out a branding iron face? I guess the etch would have to be a couple of mm deep for it to work, does that sound likely?
Having had a play with this (Sorry, no pics, got carried away :rolleyes: ) I would say yes, but you may find you'll get an undercut as the etching gets deeper
Lost_Patrol
24-01-2006, 13:59
I would agree with Motorbike Man. It just took a couple of minutes to etch mine and it was quite deep. If you etch for a long time, you could probably achieve any depth you need (providing you have enough cotton buds). I used a 12v alarm battery, but I don't know if a higher voltage you give a deeper etch.
BobFromHolland
31-01-2006, 15:58
It's a brilliant trick! Really easy with houshold materials. Marked my Letherman wave right away!
I agree with Motorbike Man, you will probably get an undercut with this method.
A similar process is used for high precision drilling in really hard materials (like turbine blades) and is called chemical drilling. In order to keep dimensions stable you then use a hollow probe as a conductor in stead of a cotton bud. The probe is coated on the outside so that the etching (drilling) is only realised at the tip. The acid (or salt water) is pumped through the probe and the probe is then slowly lowered through the metal.
It is not easy to do yourself at the kitchen table, but I hope this background info helps to understand the processes.
Ogri the trog
31-01-2006, 17:01
A similar process is used for high precision drilling in really hard materials (like turbine blades) and is called chemical drilling. In order to keep dimensions stable you then use a hollow probe as a conductor in stead of a cotton bud. The probe is coated on the outside so that the etching (drilling) is only realised at the tip. The acid (or salt water) is pumped through the probe and the probe is then slowly lowered through the metal.
It is not easy to do yourself at the kitchen table, but I hope this background info helps to understand the processes.
So perhaps a small insulated electricians screwdriver, with the tip ground away till it's level with the insulation might work. You'd have to scrape some more insulation away further up as somewhere to attach the other electrode.
I feel a project coming on.....
Ogri the trog
BobFromHolland
01-02-2006, 13:48
So perhaps a small insulated electricians screwdriver, with the tip ground away till it's level with the insulation might work. You'd have to scrape some more insulation away further up as somewhere to attach the other electrode.
I feel a project coming on.....
Ogri the trog
You could also try to nail-polish the side of a peice of (copper) cable.
I guess you would then need a complete droplet of salt water on your knife. Mind that the corrosion will 'eat' from both the knife and the electrode, so you will need to regularly sand the electrode tip and refresh the salt water. The hard part is to keep a small distance between electrode and knife. If you make contact you'll create a short circuit that is hard on the battery, but doesn't etch.
Best of luck!
Bob
a very neat trick. Have just spent a few hours etching an endless knot onto both sides of my latest attempt at a scandi. Will pop some pictures up in the next couple of days when i've finished the sheath.
:You_Rock_
That is great, I also didn't know it was possible withour fancy equipment. I'm going to have to have a go at this.
Have a rep point, you deserve it :)
Bootstrap Bob
14-07-2006, 13:59
Excellent post Shadow57 and well done to those who have succeeded, very impressive.
I'll try and have a go at this when I find some time, I was toying with the idea of an engraving tool for my Dremmel but this is a good alternative. Never thought about etching :thanks:
Bootstrap
Do you think that this would work with other metals eg Alluminium and Brass?
i.e. could I etch my name on my trangia?
Two days later...
Well yes you can sort of! usintg the method above exactly as it is you end up with a reasonable etch, except it comes out aluminium coloured!
Once you know its there then its reasonably obvious but it doesn't leap out at you like it does on steel. Its reasonably deep but I reckon that I could sand it off in in a few minutes although this would weaken the stove. I would show a picture but its got my name and post code on it! :(
As part of my job I used to etch printed circuit boards and used indellible ink pens for resist which allowed very delicate track layouts. For my next experiment I am going to try a band of celtic knot pattern by drawing the bits I want left with the pen, leaving the bits to be etched exposed. I will probably use tape to protect the border.
This time I will take a photo unless nothing at all happens in which case I won;t bother :lmao:
I had a go on some stainless steel and it works great, :notworthy but the etching did not blacken. I'm rehandling/modifying a Puma knife and tried on the tang to check the results.
I was surprised how agressive it was - after about 5 minutes the depth of etch was significant (more than could be ground out) so I would advise newbies like me to use a test piece first. I wondered whether this might be the salt concentration that made it react quicker - any thoughts?
WhichDoctor
14-11-2006, 09:23
Where are all these pics everyone is promising, I cant wait to see some of them. Its such a neat trick im going to find a odd bit of metal to try it on soon, looks really fun.
Grate thread! :You_Rock_
I just tried this with wax on my "Quick and dirty knife" (http://www.bushcraftuk.com/community/showthread.php?t=15680) and yes, it (kinda) works.
I just wiped the blade clean, rubbed on a tea candle, quick wipe over with a lighter to melt the wax onto the blade and scratched away. Its very hard with a thin layer of wax because its quite hard to see what your etching. Also, the wax tends to want to lift up at the edges of the scratch. A hot tool seems to help this a little.
My camera is on charge. I'll post pictures as soon as it has enough power.
My camera doesn't seem to want to hold a charge and the only other digital camera I have has no macro function. Please excuse the bluriness. :sad6:
http://www.bushcraftuk.com/gallery/data/500/BushSteakKnifeEtched2.jpg
If you can't make it out its my signature above a dead fish.
First time tried a photo addition so here goes. The 3 small designs to try out to see what was possible - intracacy of design etc.
http://img20.imageshack.us/img20/3034/etching1rq0.th.jpg (http://img20.imageshack.us/my.php?image=etching1rq0.jpg)
3rd attempt. Hope it works :o
unlucky but your photo link doesnt work, this (http://www.bushcraftuk.com/community/showthread.php?t=13734&highlight=insert+image) should help you insert a photo
charlesian2000
18-04-2007, 00:05
:You_Rock_
If you haven't gathered by now I'm very happy with the method posted.
I was thinking that it would be not as good as a purchased system.
The purchased system being the Etch-O-Matic about $70 USD (+ $20 USD for 240v) and if you wanted the ability to customise it would cost an extra $235 USD (approximately). The other local system (I live in Australia). The system available in Australia starts at $900 AUD :eek:
Previously I tried an acid etch with ferric chloride, and the resist was permanent marker ink. The project was a fish knife, well... that looks like a fish :rolleyes:
The result was a little fuzzy, so I revisited the etching systems mentioned earlier, and I was a little peeved at the location of the Etch-O-Matic (horrible for getting replacement consumables, and a slow turn around for customer service), and the Australian price is out of the question.
So doing a creative search with Altavista, I found this tutorial.
I went out and bought a 3-12 v transformer $70 AUD, a couple of banana pluge, a couple of alligator clips (maybe I should say crocodile clips, we don't have alligators in Australia), and away I went... pay dirt :) I did use it at 12 v though.
I was wondering if anyone had tried a different resist than nail polish (my wife is looking at me funny), I'll do an experiment with permanent marker to see if that works.
Thanks for the tip regards Charles from Oz
bushwacker bob
18-04-2007, 00:54
I was wondering if anyone had tried a different resist than nail polish (my wife is looking at me funny), I'll do an experiment with permanent marker to see if that works.
Thanks for the tip regards Charles from Oz
Sellotape works,but is harder to pattern
charlesian2000
18-04-2007, 04:02
Just tried permanent marker... it works... almost as good as nail polish.
With the permanent marker you have to draw in the negative. The unfortunate thing is that you'd need at least 2 coats, as one coat leaves streaks.
Maybe any acid resist would work? The Etch-O-Matic system uses stencils, similar to cellotape (we call that sticky tape here).
The next bit would be to make stencils on the cheap.
Regards Charles from Oz
Liberon black polish also works well for resist.
charlesian2000
19-04-2007, 03:26
Apparently this stencil product works as a resist :-
<http://www.cbridge.com/downloads/StencilProInstructions.pdf>
I've just purchased some, I'll let you know how it goes.
Regards Charles
I've got something similar, but it requires a PCB lightbox & developer to make the stencils. I use them with an electro-etch unit I built.
Those sound interesting, particularly with the lack of developer needed.
Ben Trout
05-11-2007, 23:32
Good thread.
I had a go and am quite happy with the results. For the 'mask' I used humbrol/airfix enamel paint. Once finished scraped off with a ground off old hacksaw blade and rubbed down with wire wool. Ever headstrong I went straight in with an ongoing project rather than trying it out on scrap material. Peoples might of seen the 'Amyaxe' I put up a little while back, now added some identification to it.
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v482/bentrout/SANY0003.jpg
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v482/bentrout/SANY0002.jpg
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v482/bentrout/SANY0005.jpg
I'm toying with the idea of a bit of knotwork or protective Runes on the 'pretty' side. :confused:
Thanks all.