Genuine Alpha M65 Field Coat or a Replica ?

[redzed]

Hi

Been looking to buy an Alpha M65 Field Coat as they get very good reviews and are made to US Military specs but I've also seen one of the replica coats which is less than half the price, ie £35 compared to £75 for the Alpha.

Have looked at the rules and regs and haven't seen that posting links isn't allowed so,

I've found the genuine Alpha and replica at the same place.

http://www.transatlantic.co.uk/acatalog/M-65-Field-Coat.html
http://www.transatlantic.co.uk/acatalog/USA-Style-M-65-Combat-Jacket-.html

The question is, should I go for the Alpha or are these replica's and good?

many thanks

 

[greasemonkey]

I can't say about the quality, but I think the replica looks nicer.

 

[RAPPLEBY2000]

The first picture definitely not real, it has a black makers label on the right pocket (which real ones never have).
anything with a label that says "army type" or "Army issue" is fake!

OK the Genuine article will have:

A button at chest hight shown here on this camo version:

a female metal popper seemingly facing the "wrong way" on the inside left of the zip flap at chest height again, sorry I can't find any pictures of this.

also it should have a working button hole in each lapel

and 2 button holes on the rear of the collar next to the hood zip.




why these strange additions?





so you can add this!: (look closely at the bottom front edge of the hood the cord loop this fits onto the M65 front button!)

I have one on my M51 parka, Mine says: "Hood, Extreme cold weather, w/synthetic fur ruff, OG 107"

An older collector version with real wolf fur! (note: the top button to fix to an even older type jacket!)

another version here you can see the Male popper on the bottom right (unusually it fits even more jackets M43/M50/M51/M65 jackets which explains the further buttons and loops).

When the fur hood is attached to the M65 jacket it looks quite like this the NB3 flight jacket

The strange buttons holes and poppers are so you can fit one of these hoods to either the M65 "Field coat" or the M51 "fishtail" parka.

(note: the fur hood is obviously removable from all genuine versions in the family)

the poppers: are exactly the same as the ones found on other US kit like on the grenade hangers on ammo pouches so should pop onto and off another one easily)

The buttons: are exactly the same type found on US Issue BDU jackets and trousers! I.e. well made and not shiny!)

I can't vouch for this company but they certainly all seem to be genuine:
http://www.vintagetrends.com/military/thumbnails.asp?mode=all&MC=Military+Vintage&CA=Men&SC=Jackets%2FCoats&ST=M-65&SS=

Oh and...the Genuine fold away Hood is trash....really it's pretty pointless, very poor design not at all warm or weather repellent, though if genuine it should be on an elastic strip, and a elastic draw cord, very much an afterthought, I can't imagine anyone uses them in service ( I bought a Genuine M65 jacket and the hood was completely cut out!).

Hope that clears it up for you.
There are other labels etc but I don't remember what should or shouldn't be on them.

I think there should be a "Made in the USA" label in the front right hand pocket (as worn) I Might be wrong though.

 

[RAPPLEBY2000]

Just to add to that I was just looking at my "what I always thought was an M51 parka" it turns out it's an "M65 parka"!
http://www.olive-drab.com/od_soldiers_clothing_m65_parka.php

well you learn something every day!

 

[lostplanet]

Firstly What do you want to use it for? BushCraft or just general Use?

http://www.olive-drab.com/od_soldiers_clothing_m65_jacket.php

I have a Alpha industries M65, and IMO it's crap. The Hood, as Rapp, says is useless to the Civvy. I'm pretty sure it was designed to go under a Helmet as a bit of a wind stopper for the GI.
Compared to other jackets I have had and still own, The M65 is poor in terms of quality, weight, Fit and VFM.

For £75 I think you could find a Much better coat or have a good chunk of the money needed.

My advice is to seek one out and get a good look before you buy. Ask around here for Alternatives.

 

[Aristotle]

I've a REPLICA M65 that I have worn as a general day-to-day coat and on walks in the woods for the 40 or so weeks of the year that a coat is required in NW England.

In cold weather I fit the liner which is a sort of quilted polyester(?) effort. It has been warm enough through the recent cold spell, but was possibly at its limit this morning (walking pace, a mile or so at -6degC, with a light headwind) with a shirt and jumper. Wearing a scarf underneath would insulate and keep the wind out behind the zip where the liner doesn't meet. A genuine one may have a warmer liner.

I used Nikwax Cotton proof and it still beads in light rain after a year.

Yes, the hood is rubbish, but i prefer hats to hoods anyway.

The 'velcro' was of very poor quality so I've replaced it with genuine, heavy-duty stuff at the collar and stitched on press-studs at the cuffs.


Overall, I have to say that I like it. It is comfortable, it looks pretty good (in black), is fairly practical and was only about 35 quid.

ps. Sizing is on the large side. I am about 6', 13st 3, 38-40" chest and I have a size 'Small'. The length of arms and body is good and wiithout the liner, the fit is good although with the liner the fit could be slightly more generous under/in front of the arm pits, although after a couple of wears it broke in. As I said earlier, though, I was wearing a shirt/tie and a wool jumper underneath it earlier.

I would try a Medium next time.

 

[andybysea]

I had a Alpha m65, and sold it on as i didnt like it much,i prefer the Brit windproof smock,its comfortable,dries alot quicker,is a better fit,or even the old swedish snow smocks i prefer, i found the m65 a uncomfortable jacket, to stiff material,didnt like the collar design/in fact didnt really like the fit and design all over,when compared to other Military jackets of a similar price, and when soaked to an age to dry,just my personnel opinion.

 

[RAPPLEBY2000]

I have a Alpha industries M65, and IMO it's crap.
The M65 is poor in terms of quality, weight, Fit and VFM.

If it's the genuine Item it will last for years, and it is a warm robust bit of kit (why would there be so many copies otherwise?)

good points:
looks it does ,look nice and is well made.
comfort, it's American, most of their kit has been well thought out comfort being high on the design list.
comfort extras things like the storm flaps on the cuffs unheard of on British kit.
extras you can add or take out the liner and hood. which makes the jacket a pretty good jacket for most of the year. (unlike the BDU or SAS type smock which is a single layer).
Pockets poppers easy to open close with gloves on. and the lower ones are good for hand warming.

Bad points
poor pocket design pockets are quite small and there are none inside the jacket (I actually modified an M65 jacket and added a map pocket because of this)
poppers (a long term use issue) it's covered in poppers which are difficult to fix if you need to.
the hood (has been discussed)
the Arctic hood Instant Arctic jacket? yes, but because the hood is multi purpose it does not exactly fit any jacket perfectly so there are loose bits and overlaps the zip in a strange way.
wet I got mine wet several times and they take ages to dry as some parts are quite thick material and have not only the insulated liner but another loose cotton one.
liner the liner isn't that amazing, much like the US poncho liner quite thin. It can only be worn in the jacket, it has ne buttons/fasteners of it's own holes under the arms and the arms are very short, though you can buy one that has fasteners and pockets.

For £75 I think you could find a Much better coat or have a good chunk of the money needed.
My advice is to seek one out and get a good look before you buy. Ask around here for Alternatives.

yup I agree, at least have a look around and try stuff on (not the fakes though). though I like the M65 jacket it does have negative quirks.

 

[redzed]

Apologies for the late response.

First of all, many thanks for the great replies, especially to RAPPLEBY2000 for posting all of the photos and links.

I think I'll order the genuine Alpha M65 as it'll at least be interesting to find out for myself on how good the coat is.

Sizing is on the large side. I am about 6', 13st 3, 38-40" chest and I have a size 'Small'. The length of arms and body is good and wiithout the liner, the fit is good although with the liner the fit could be slightly more generous under/in front of the arm pits, although after a couple of wears it broke in. As I said earlier, though, I was wearing a shirt/tie and a wool jumper underneath it earlier.

I would try a Medium next time.

Good job I didn't order a large then which I would have done without reading your post. Most places seem to recommend buying one size down from your normal jacket size but a size small fitting a guy your size is crazy.

I too have never been into hoods and in general I don't really find them necessary in the UK climate but everyone to their own. That said, maybe our climate is changing if the last 2 winters are anything to go by.

The first picture definitely not real, it has a black makers label on the right pocket (which real ones never have).
anything with a label that says "army type" or "Army issue" is fake!

There are other labels etc but I don't remember what should or shouldn't be on them.

I think there should be a "Made in the USA" label in the front right hand pocket (as worn) I Might be wrong though.

Suppose that markings like Army Type or Army Issue will con many people but it isn’t very likely that any army would find any need to add such markings.

You certainly know your stuff on all of those poppers, buttons and hoods and what they’re there for. Thanks again for your excellent reply. Goodjob

If it's the genuine Item it will last for years, and it is a warm robust bit of kit (why would there be so many copies otherwise?)

good points:
looks it does ,look nice and is well made.
comfort, it's American, most of their kit has been well thought out comfort being high on the design list.
comfort extras things like the storm flaps on the cuffs unheard of on British kit.
extras you can add or take out the liner and hood. which makes the jacket a pretty good jacket for most of the year. (unlike the BDU or SAS type smock which is a single layer).
Pockets poppers easy to open close with gloves on. and the lower ones are good for hand warming.

Bad points
poor pocket design pockets are quite small and there are none inside the jacket (I actually modified an M65 jacket and added a map pocket because of this)
poppers (a long term use issue) it's covered in poppers which are difficult to fix if you need to.
the hood (has been discussed)
the Arctic hood Instant Arctic jacket? yes, but because the hood is multi purpose it does not exactly fit any jacket perfectly so there are loose bits and overlaps the zip in a strange way.
wet I got mine wet several times and they take ages to dry as some parts are quite thick material and have not only the insulated liner but another loose cotton one.
liner the liner isn't that amazing, much like the US poncho liner quite thin. It can only be worn in the jacket, it has ne buttons/fasteners of it's own holes under the arms and the arms are very short, though you can buy one that has fasteners and pockets.


yup I agree, at least have a look around and try stuff on (not the fakes though). though I like the M65 jacket it does have negative quirks.

It’s not a massive amount of money and it does have many good points so I’ll get one ordered.

 

[wizard]

Rappelby pretty much sums it up. Of note, the Alpha product is not a genuine issue article either, it is merely a slightly better made "Army type" item. I had to wear the M65 jacket as part of my uniform for years and was truly pleased when they started issuing the ECWCS Gore-Tex parka and let it be worn in place of the M65. They were never much fun to carry in the rucksack, too bulky and too heavy. Not too bad to wear about as long as you keep it dry with some treatment and fit it loose to allow layers under.

 

[spoony]

I have a replica you can look at seeing as your not far, and its up for sale if you want it

 

[Aristotle]

Although it might have been useful last week in the cold, I've just modified my replica M65.

I took a pseudo-fleece & pile jacket that has seen better days and cut out the body part of the inner to make a sort of waistcoat.

I then removed the M65 inner and placed the pile inner into the M65, with the M65 liner inside the pile 'waistcoat'.

I cut holes in the waistcoat for the buttons to go through and buttoned the M65 liner back into the M65.

The zip could still do with a baffle behind it, so I might look into that.

I'll field (well, urban in the day and the forest by night) test it tomorrow.

 

[Aristotle]

The first field test:

Walking a mile at -5DegC and wearing the same jumper underneath as last week, there was a noticeable feeling of warmth inside the jacket this morning that there hasn't been in recent weeks.

Having removed the jacket and putting my hand inside the linings, there felt to be a significant temperature difference between the different layers.

 

[RAPPLEBY2000]

Apologies for the late response.

First of all, many thanks for the great replies, especially to RAPPLEBY2000 for posting all of the photos and links.

No problem, I like to share where I can

Suppose that markings like Army Type or Army Issue will con many people but it isn’t very likely that any army would find any need to add such markings.

yeah, it's something the manufactures cottoned onto (no pun intended). you don't see it so much nower days but terms like "Army issue" have never been used for actual army issue equipment (to my knowledge). It's usually blatantly obvious if something is a copy (It's usually inferior quality) it's real but for things like clothing it's harder to tell.
I have an Olive jacket (I knew was fake) I bought just for the looks (rather than camo), I've never really tested it, it has constantly fallen apart the pocket stitching has come undone, and the sizing is all wrong on the sleeves which I didn't notice till it was too late.
inside (to the untrained eye) is a totally believable label with NATO numbers stock numbers etc , none of which are real!
best to get the facts before you spend your cash!

You certainly know your stuff on all of those poppers, buttons and hoods and what they’re there for. Thanks again for your excellent reply. Goodjob

well, I've owned a real and a fake M65 over the years so I know the minor things that give the game away!

Of note, the Alpha product is not a genuine issue article either, it is merely a slightly better made "Army type" item.

Agreed! (school Boy error, how did I miss that! )