US Army ALICE Pack ???

  • Hey Guest, Early bird pricing on the Summer Moot (29th July - 10th August) available until April 6th, we'd love you to come. PLEASE CLICK HERE to early bird price and get more information.

Erbswurst

Bushcrafter (boy, I've got a lot to say!)
Mar 5, 2018
4,079
1,766
Berlin
Currently I collect some different military surplus rucksacks to store my stuff in them and to pack them ready to go for different circumstances: Summer in Germany, Summer in southern France, Winter in Germany, Base camps, Canoe explorations, with or without tent, and so on.

While I looked around, I came a long the internet offer of a US Army Alice pack for a very low price and remembered, that they are pretty handy with several outer pouches.

Many years ago I had one in my hand and it was incredibly heavy.
But I guess that it was a very early model and ask myself, if the newer versions became lighter.

Can anybody tell me something about this rucksacks?
 

santaman2000

M.A.B (Mad About Bushcraft)
Jan 15, 2011
16,909
1,114
67
Florida
There were two sizes:

1) The medium ALICE which can be used with straps alone (the straps are detachable) or with a frame. This size has 3 exterior pockets and an inside radio pocket as well as a lid pocket.
-and-
2) The large ALICE which must be used with a frame and has 6 exterior pockets plus the interior radio pocket and the lid pocket.

They were both made of about 400 to 600 denier corduroy and as such were a bit lighter than modern military rucksacks which tend to be made of 1000 denier. I still have one of each. In spite of being made from the lighter cordura, they’re more than robust enough to stand up to rough use. The exterior pockets on both are “tunnel” pockets, meaning you can slide flat equipment (such asa machete, axe handle, shovel, etc. between the pocket and the main pack body. Arranged around the exterior body, just above the pockets, are a series of webbing straps which will accommodate ALICE clips or the older frog hangers.

Excellent rucksacks for the money. BUT! But if you overpack the medium without a frame the load inevitably shifts around inside it until it resembles a ball with straps.
 
  • Like
Reactions: Erbswurst

Erbswurst

Bushcrafter (boy, I've got a lot to say!)
Mar 5, 2018
4,079
1,766
Berlin
Could you tell me later the weight of the large one, and the small one with and without frame?

Here it's 3 am. So I have to sleep a bit.

Thank you!
 
  • Like
Reactions: santaman2000

SCOMAN

Life Member
Dec 31, 2005
2,583
452
53
Perthshire
I think there are third party sellers that do a 'plastic' frame that'll fit an Alice. in the dark winter nights I remember reading about a 'wildcat' Alice?
 
  • Like
Reactions: Erbswurst

santaman2000

M.A.B (Mad About Bushcraft)
Jan 15, 2011
16,909
1,114
67
Florida
I think there are third party sellers that do a 'plastic' frame that'll fit an Alice. in the dark winter nights I remember reading about a 'wildcat' Alice?
It’s an old pack system so there have been many, many privately done modifications (hence the term “wildcat”) over the years.
 
  • Like
Reactions: Erbswurst

CACHERSQUIRREL

New Member
Jun 12, 2017
2
2
State of Wisconsin, USA
I use a medium ALICE every day as part of my equipment at work. It rides in the cargo area of my vehicle for potential incidents that require 24 hours, and can either be used as it is loaded or I can grab little bits and pieces as needed. Or when not working I can grab it and just head out for the night.

The aluminum frame and USGI kidney pad are useable, but not comfortable. They were designed to be universal, and around an average height of 5'8" persons. If you're taller than that, it just may not fit your torso right, and while you can carry it, it might not be comfortable over the long run. The frame can pop rivets under stress and the metal buckles in the older kidney pads really add a lot of weight for not a lot of support. There are aftermarket aluminum frames by companies such as Tactical Tailor that use welds instead of rivets and these are a much better quality. However, the aluminum frame also sits away from your back, creating a bit of a gap in the lower back. Some people like this. It provides a space for storage of a hydration bladder, or a foam pad, or a poncho. It also aided in ventilation. However, it also made the center of gravity further away from ones back, and not everyone likes that. USGI ALICE shoulder straps, especially the more padded enhanced ones, are just basic straps that can still serve the function comfortably. One can add a sternum strap to them, but they don't have anything like load lifters. They are just basic straps.

The Hellcat conversion is a very comfortable way to give these packs a new life. It basically uses an ALICE or aftermarket 1606 frame (more on this in a bit.) along with a better suspension from the MOLLE/PALS system. The MOLLE padded ruck shoulder straps are more of a yoke method and allow for some personal adjustment for torso height and allow for a little bit of load lifter use, albeit not as efficient as on a backpacking pack. However, the ENHANCED shoulder straps do not have the ability to attach the same way. The MOLLE padded waist belt (as well as the US Marine Corps FILBE equipment.) provides a much better support, and other aftermarket options from Fireforce Tactical or Platatac are even better still. USMC FILBE shoulder straps and waist belts can be compatible with ALICE upgrades like the Hellcat.

The company that makes the synthetic frames for the USGI MOLLE rucks is Downeast Innovations Inc (DEI). The DEI 1603 frame had some teething problems, but the version they've had for a while now is a pretty robust frame. But it's a huge frame, like a packboard. Massive. The 1606 was developed for airborne use, and people started noticing it could be made to work in the ALICE rucks.

The 1606MC frame with MOLLE or FILBE suspension breathes an awesome life into ALICE packs. It's not lightweight like a backpacking pack, but it still can be comfortable. My empty pack weight in this configuration is about 7.5 pounds. If I add the MOLLE sleep system that the actual Hellcat conversion uses, my weight is over 8.5 pounds for the empty pack. That is the negative to it. So it comes down to balancing out what you need out of a pack setup. I find the medium the perfect size for pretty basic outings. I put my sleep system in another bag and secure it to the underside of the pack and the frame. If I need additional capacity, MOLLE or FILBE sustainment pouches provide an additional 5 liters each and can be attached to the sides of the pack. A haversack can be stored on the top of the lid. It's got options and possibilities, albeit at a cost of weight. Again, it comes down to what you want or need. If you need to shave weight for a base weight, ALICE probably isn't the best option. But if you need something a bit more durable, or if you just prefer the vintage looks, a medium ALICE can work nicely.
 
  • Like
Reactions: Erbswurst

CACHERSQUIRREL

New Member
Jun 12, 2017
2
2
State of Wisconsin, USA
Another thing to look at is one possibly can set the Medium ALICE up to ride on the top of a belt kit like the British military style, with or without the frame. Even with the DEI 1606/FILBE frame, it can be adjusted to ride on top of belt kit pouches, providing another form of comfort in load carrying. Mine can ride on my illiac crest as intended, or my work belt is set to ride low enough on my waist and on top of utility pouches that provide some of that additional support. If one doesn't use the frame, it's a good idea to look into the "Bobcat" conversion that provides an aluminum rod as a spreader bar for the back to keep it from balling up, or a sheet of synthetic or foam pad to do the same.
 
  • Like
Reactions: Erbswurst

BCUK Shop

We have a a number of knives, T-Shirts and other items for sale.

SHOP HERE