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They're making it easier to diagnose Lyme disease..

Discussion in 'Hygiene and First Aid / Medicinal' started by Tony, Feb 13, 2019.

  1. Tony

    Tony White bear (Admin)
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    BBC article here Lyme disease can be diagnosed by 'bull's eye' rash alone

    The crux of it is this
    "Lyme disease can be diagnosed by the rash alone, new advice for the NHS says.

    People with the "bull's eye" circular rash do not need a blood test and should be treated immediately to avoid complications, the National Institute for Health and Care Excellence says.

    Waiting for lab results is unnecessary and can cause delays in patients being prescribed the antibiotics they need."


    There's always been a struggle getting doctors to check for Lyme's so this is a good result for us lot that are outdoors a lot.
     
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  2. crosslandkelly

    crosslandkelly A somewhat settled

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    That is great news. I know two people who have contracted Lymes in the past, it almost killed one of them.
     
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  3. Robson Valley

    Robson Valley Full Member

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    It is "Lyme" disease. Lyme is not a person. Lyme is a town in Connecticut, USA.
    The people there are not really possessive about this.
     
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  4. crosslandkelly

    crosslandkelly A somewhat settled

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    :roflmao::roflmao::roflmao:
     
  5. Darryl of Sussex

    Darryl of Sussex Full Member

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    There are so many ways that this confused me. Does everyone who is bitten by a tick develop a rash? Will everyone know they have been bitten? Lyme disease symptoms can develop a long time after being bitten, so how does this new info compare?
    Medical folk might help explain this.


    “In my thoughts I have seen rings of smoke through the trees”
     
  6. Chainsaw

    Chainsaw Native

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    Not everyone who is bitten develops a rash
    Not everyone who is adversely affected develops a rash.
    It is safe to say that anyone who is bitten and develops a rash is at risk of developing the disease which is what they are trying to cover here.
    Not everyone gets the flu like symptoms before getting pretty badly ill

    It's not straightforward or easily diagnosable I'm afraid, prevention is better than cure. I've had a couple of ticks in my life, both removed 'properly' (I hope) and had no symptoms at all. I have heard of people who have had 100s of ticks with no effect and a guy that didn't know he had been bitten had a lovely suite of symptoms before he was diagnosed and treated. There is no nice clean answer.

    Not medically trained just read a lot. Here is a good starter site http://lymediseaseuk.com/
     
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  7. Tony

    Tony White bear (Admin)
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    For me the article is more a reflection that Lyme disease is being treated as a more common possibility than it has previously, traditionally many doctors have been slow to do the tests etc and many people have suffered because of it, this shows that it's an issue that's getting more recognition and due to this there's going to be less people suffering long term issues, there's also going to be a positive knock on effect even for those that don't produce all the symptoms that make it obvious.
     
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  8. mousey

    mousey Bushcrafter (boy, I've got a lot to say!)

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    It doesn't seem to make the diagnosis any easier, just to release the antibiotics on the recognition of a bulls eye rash alone, rather than a continued investigation via blood tests or further symptoms required before antibiotics are issued. Well that's what I got from reading it...
     
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  9. Janne

    Janne M.A.B (Mad About Bushcraft)

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    A good step to start the AB treatment as soon as the erythema appears.
    At this early stage tests usually show a negative result. Later on, when the infection has produced the immune response needed for a positive result, it is well established and much mote difficult to treat.
     
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  10. MrEd

    MrEd Native

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    The thinking is while waiting for lab tests to come back before starting treatment, to start the treatment if Lyme disease is suspected so as not to delay which could cause the person to become more sick.

    If the tests then come back as negative for Lyme disease then fine, stop the treatment at that point.

    Having a treatment for a few hours or a day that isn’t needed won’t do any harm but delaying starting antibiotics when they are needed will - can rapidly escalate into sepsis and multi organ failure which can be fatal
     
  11. Janne

    Janne M.A.B (Mad About Bushcraft)

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    I got Borreliosis about 15 years ago in Czech Republic, and went to see a doctor as soon as the initial rash appeared. They had that regime already then, to give an initial IV AB combined with high dose oral AB intake. Was it 2 different AB's orally? For several weeks.
    The tests they did at the initial visit came back negative.

    Mum got Borreliosis in Sweden, around 30 years ago, and was undiagnosed. She suffered for years.
    Another friend got it too in Sweden, around 25 years ago, but tests showed nothing, so no AB's. She got incredibly ill, including paralyzed legs. Lost her career, lost her husband.

    That crap is not to joke with. Only because of my friend and my mum, I went to see a doc in CR.

    Since then I am paranoid about ticks and possible tick bites.
     
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  12. Chainsaw

    Chainsaw Native

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    You are only paranoid if they are not out to get you....
     
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  13. Robson Valley

    Robson Valley Full Member

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    Ticks need a blood meal for metamorphosis or for egg production.
    They key in on the scent of urine along game trails.
    That's exactly where they dropped off in order to complete a life stage change on the ground.
    Climb up the bushes, open their legs and wait to grab onto any passers-by.

    > Find a hand-sized mirror so that you can check yourself in every nook and cranny.
    > Don't follow game trails.
    > Use a repellant on your trousers.

    = = = =
    We have tick species that can infest a moose so badly they die. Tick bodies like grapes.
    I've shot rabbits with row after row of ticks on their ears.
    Collecting for the Center for Diease Control tick studies.
     
  14. Janne

    Janne M.A.B (Mad About Bushcraft)

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    Yep, blood is very nutrient dense.
    Lady Mosquitoes need blood to produce eggs too.

    I am male, but love a good portion of Boudin Noir.
     
  15. Robson Valley

    Robson Valley Full Member

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    Shutting your pant-leg cuffss with duct tape usually kept the ticks on the outside, easy to see.
    What? Another month and tick season in the UK????

    We wore "Shoo-Bug" jackets at work. Hordes of biting flies.
    The jackets were Permethrin-impregnated.
    Any bug that landed on the jacket was poisoned and died.

    Have any of you used a battery-powered bug swatter? Looks like a tennis racquet?
    The electronics jacks the voltage up to 20k+ VDC Zzzzzzzzzzttttt!
     
  16. Janne

    Janne M.A.B (Mad About Bushcraft)

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    I have heard that you Canadians are masters in Ducktape usage!

    The tick bourne ( and other insects too) diseases are spreading I believe?

    BTW, the title is somewhat wrong, they testing is just as difficult as before, but what they do is (hopefully) making testing less needed, if they start treating suspected cases with AB without any tests.
    Saves money, saves people getting sick in a potentially devastating disease.
     
    #16 Janne, Feb 14, 2019
    Last edited: Feb 14, 2019
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  17. Woody girl

    Woody girl Full Member

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    We get a lot of ticks on the moor here. I've even found them on my chest. But the worst one was discovered after a weekend camp. Got home had a bath and discovered one in a very private place!!! Had to go to hospital to have it removed as I couldn't do it myself. There is still a dent in the cubicle ceiling to this day! Very embarrassing at the time but I can laugh now.. I was given antibiotics straight away even tho I had no rash or symptoms. That was over 10 yrs ago, our local hospitals and doctors take it seriously . I no longer take al- fresco wees in the middle of the night. I have a wee pot instead. Something for the ladies among us to consider when took short!
    I always keep a tick remover in my first aid kit. Most chemists and even pet stores will sell them. Definitely worth the few pounds they cost.
     
  18. Janne

    Janne M.A.B (Mad About Bushcraft)

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    We should not get embarrased about our 'privates'. Part of our mortal coil...
    We in the medical business do not have the same cultural inhibitions as normal people. The inhibitions makes our work sometimes difficult, even for me 'The Swedish Toothfairy" aka ' Painless Dentist".

    I get them there too, usually in an less visible area behind the scrotum..
    Robson V the Canadian mentioned that they are drawn to urine, maybe that is why?
     
  19. Woody girl

    Woody girl Full Member

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    Aha that explains why I got into that predicament. I hate the little blighters!!
     
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  20. Robson Valley

    Robson Valley Full Member

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    I keep a mirror in the bathroom, it's about the size of my hand.
    I use it specifically to inspect my "keel" and "propellor" after a day in the forest.
    This is bushcraft = care for yourself/ You may not find a willing helper at all.

    Game trails are so much easier to follow than bush-bashing.
    Use a "tick flag" to sweep ahead of you on a trail to collect the buggers.
    Use the tick flag on a compass transect in the same area.
    Compare the catch numbers. I collected ticks. I needed lots to harvest.
    You should see what gets transported across the continent on livestock and pets!!!!!

    I hunt birds. If it flies, it dies.
    When a body goes cold, the ticks all jump off to sense another warm ride.
    Some dead wild turkeys appear to be dripping!
    Jeez! I had a dead mule deer buck unload in the carboot. What a crawling mess.
    Honestly, I didn't notice when I field-dressed the critter.
     
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