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Sore mouth.

Discussion in 'Hygiene and First Aid / Medicinal' started by Tengu, Mar 28, 2019.

  1. Deekin

    Deekin Full Member

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  2. Janne

    Janne M.A.B (Mad About Bushcraft)

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    Statistics like that lie. It is all about expectations.
    Even with the latest, up to date medicine, people still die.

    Even a relatively simple procedure like a wisdom toith removal under local anesthetic can kill you.

    Every time I perform a surgical one, I am about 3mm from severing a major artery, situated in a place where only a very skilled surgeon can access it. Most patients die within 20 minutes from severing it.

    But do not let that scare you, it only hapoens a handful of times each year in UK.
    Or Sweden, or US.
     
  3. santaman2000

    santaman2000 M.A.B (Mad About Bushcraft)

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  4. Janne

    Janne M.A.B (Mad About Bushcraft)

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    Just to balance:
    https://dentallaw.co.uk/


    These days it is not acceptable to be a human with human errors.
    The way things are progressing, I would not recommend any young person to think of hsving Dentistry as a career.
     
  5. santaman2000

    santaman2000 M.A.B (Mad About Bushcraft)

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    In our case (the US) it has more to do with lawyers seeing deep pockets. If there wasn’t money to be made, no lawsuits would be filed. In that respect the UK has a saner attitude regarding lawsuits. Or at least they did when I was there; some previous posts/threads here have indicated it may be changing.
     
  6. Janne

    Janne M.A.B (Mad About Bushcraft)

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    It is changing, all over Europe.
    It is becoming unacceptable to make an error if you are in the medical or dental professions.

    One side effect is that fewer and fewer dentists accept new emergency patirnts, or walkin patients.

    Also patients with multiple problems, like described earlier in this thread, are not interrsting.

    Personally I do not accept a patient that has been prescribed such medication unless I have a signed letter from the prescribing doctor telling exactly what meds he prescribed and the diagnosis (why).
     
    #86 Janne, May 5, 2019
    Last edited: May 5, 2019
  7. Deekin

    Deekin Full Member

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    About the same as I do from you. Although your posts and comments have been most educational, and I must applaud you. You are most definitely an asset to this forum.
     
  8. santaman2000

    santaman2000 M.A.B (Mad About Bushcraft)

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    So tell me, what experience have you had from any doctor outside a socialized medical system? I have the ability to compare personal experiences. Do you? Neither did Alphie. He could have. He was accepted as a patient by at least two other systems at no cost to the NHS or to his family; but was denied the right to leave a system that or only wrote him off for dead, but was too arrogant to let his family seek care elsewhere. Go ahead; try to spin that. I’ll wait.
     
  9. Janne

    Janne M.A.B (Mad About Bushcraft)

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    Ashya King is happy today.
     
  10. santaman2000

    santaman2000 M.A.B (Mad About Bushcraft)

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    My issue with both those cases isn’t the therapy or treatment itself. Treatments always have risks to be weighed. No. My issue is government usurping the patient (or in these two cases, the parents) right to make their own decisions.
     
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  11. Deekin

    Deekin Full Member

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    give me a shout August 29th 2027.
     
  12. Janne

    Janne M.A.B (Mad About Bushcraft)

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    Weird date.
    You believe the Earth disc will flip?
    Armageddon?
    First Contact?
    :)

    I hope nothing, as I plan to retire that year, 67 years young!
     
    #92 Janne, May 5, 2019
    Last edited: May 5, 2019
  13. Toddy

    Toddy Mod
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    My brother's a Doctor. He says the biggest difference in medicine in the UK vs places like the USA is simply that in the healthcare elsewhere has to sell it self, constantly sell itself. It has to advertise, the individuals have to advertise and drum up business for themselves/their hospital, etc., they have to promote the latest 'bestest' treatments even if they're really just old ones in new wrappings (He calls it baffling with bullsh1t) . This leads to the constant offering of competing options, often unneeded options but the patients who 'self refer' feel they have a choice that fits their budget but makes them feel good about it.....or not if they can't afford the best options.

    We just go to the local GP or emergency clinic, or phone NHS24 (unless it's a heart attack or stroke or suspected issue of either, then we simply phone an ambulance directly (free, doesn't cost us a penny, and they 'blue light' it to us, takes about ten minutes for here, I know that's within the ideal parameters, but it's real, and most of the folks in my country live in fairly similar circumstances, rural communities do have constraints re travel, though the helicopters and small planes do bring islanders and very remote patients to the hospitals when it's necessary) and after a consultation we're either given a diagnosis/prescription/referral to specialists or sent to see Shona (the phlebotomist :) and then things are reviewed after the results are back.
    It's really pretty fuss free. They even do evening and weekend consultations these days too.

    Put it this way, round here healthcare isn't something we worry about. It's good, it's efficient, here it's pretty quick too. There is no perfectly flexible system, but they're trying, and it's an on-going and evolving thing. No one's saying it's perfect, but it's not the nightmare that places that have their healthcare professionals and insurance companies selling themselves and drugs and specific hospitals, etc., would have the gullible believe.

    We do have horror stories of how bad it is in other countries, and how horrendously expensive it is. How incredibly stressful it is, and how that stress and worry continues for years, often after the original issue has been resolved.
    Money comes first elsewhere is how we view it, not healthcare.

    We do know that there are mistakes made in any system, but on the whole, here it works as it ought for the vast majority.

    We do have access to private healthcare, many now have it as part of their work, my sons do. Neither accesses it, there are too many restrictions, too many limitations of who they can see, where they can go, etc., just too much hassle, for two healthy young men to be bothered. They do have colleagues who have used it, one lady to get her bunions dealt with and another for elective surgery on 'something female'. Another man used it to access knee replacement surgery, the NHS said it was fixable with exercise, physiotherapy and minor surgery. At his age I'd have gone with the NHS, new knees don't last forever, and who really wants surgery again ? but it was his choice, and he still had to pay a fair bit towards it. Each to their own.

    Aye, indeed, lot of money in 'private' healthcare it seems.
    Social healthcare is a very good thing, and the majority of folks in my country aren't just contented with it, but very much pleased with it.

    Interestingly the statistics show that people in the USA pay more for 'social healthcare' (for those on low income, veterans, disabled, etc., ) that we do for everybody's healthcare. Strange really that most cannot access social healthcare but are the ones who pay for it. Here we all pay for it, and we all access it.


    Anyway, to the O.T. it sounds as though Tengu's dental woes have been efficiently dealt with, and no doubt at minimal expense too. Hopefully future check ups will be less and less stressful for her.

    M
     
  14. Janne

    Janne M.A.B (Mad About Bushcraft)

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    Most doctors ( of all flavours) can not advertise of the like ‘I am better than the next guy’, but they can advertise their range of services.
    Applies to all of EU, Norway, US and Canada.
    No clue about the rest of the World.

    IMO: The difference between a State funded and Patient funded medical system is mainly in the access.
    State funded ( or, to be precise, funded by taxes taken from the citizens) - (called Tax payer funded now.) systems have usually a longer waiting time. Patient funded systems have usually a very short waiting time.

    In reality, a Citizen funded system is under dimensioned, a Private funded system over dimensioned.

    Both systems have plusses and minusses.
    I know both systems quite well.

    With a good insurance, I prefer the Privately funded system, as I can choose the hospital and medical professionals. ( Without a private insurance, of course the Citizen funded insurance is to be preferred!)

    But, whichever system or country, the most important part is an ethical, happy medical professional.
    I want to meet a doctot that is coming to work with a smile on his/her face.
     
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  15. Toddy

    Toddy Mod
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    I want to see happy medical professionals and happy patients. Mostly I do :)

    I think social healthcare has to be flexible and accountable, constantly involved in the advances in medical care, and not driven by financial institutions looking for their share.....other than individual universal healthcare free at point of need, of course.

    I have an NHS Dentist, and we're both happy with the system. We talked about it just six weeks ago.
    She will do private work, but is quite pleased with the Dental Centre that she works for too.
     
  16. Janne

    Janne M.A.B (Mad About Bushcraft)

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    I think the strenght in the pan European system is that most research, and clinical applications, are done without the monetary profit in mind.
    Most groundbreaking methods, inventions, techniques were done this way.
    Laser eye surgery, heart transplants, pacemakers, Ti implants, plus many more.

    Please remember that NHS is far from being unique, all of Europe has a similar system.
    In fact, both the Swedish, Norwegian and British systems were carbon copies from the Czechoslovak healthcare system that was ‘invented’ in the early 1920’ and rolled out fully in early 1930’s.
    ( I know too little about other European systems to comment)

    One interesting thing is, that it does not matter in which system the Dental Surgeon works in. Those working in Sweden, Norway, UK, Canada and US have an incredibly high work dissatisfaction, burnout rate, alcohol dependancy rate and suicide rate.
    ( again, no clue about other countries!)

    Please be nice to your dentist, brush your teeth daily and floss at least three times a week!
    :)
     
    #96 Janne, May 6, 2019
    Last edited: May 6, 2019
  17. santaman2000

    santaman2000 M.A.B (Mad About Bushcraft)

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    Posted in error
     
  18. santaman2000

    santaman2000 M.A.B (Mad About Bushcraft)

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    No doctors here “sell” themselves in the context of your statement. As Jane says they (doctors, hospitals, etc) do indeed advertise the services they offer and sometimes the equipment they have access too (newer lasers are more efficient and precise than older ones as an example)

    NO treatments are “free.” Again, as Jane point out they are taxpayer funded. My insurance premiums are lower by mutiples than taxes in countries with socialized health programs. Most people,only pay a portion of the insurance premium and the employer pays the vast portion. In my own case I only pay for a supplemental policy to cover the deductible. My previous employer (I retired from a full 21 year career in the Air Force) furnishes my primary insurance. To be completely frank, I really don’t pay for,the supplement either. My second career (another 13 years as a cop and corrections officer resulted in my second retirement pension and an “insurance allowance pay” to cover my choice of,insurance. That allowance covers the supplement so my care is “free at point of service.” The difference being I’m free to “self refer” as you put it and yes, to choose the “latest and greatest.”

    Yes, I understand you do indeed have private practice there as well that some people may choose. That said, from the best information I’ve seen, those private doctors’ practices are most often NHS doctors at a second job on their off time. I have mixed feelings about that. On the negative side it shows:
    1) that the NHS pays too little if it’s doctors need a second income, and
    2) that those doctors in private practice are likely even more overworked and under-rested (and this less sharp)

    On the plus side they know exactly what the shortfalls of the public system is what they need to do/offer to better it.

    Regarding our “social” healthcare we probably have mor patients on it than you do. You see it doesn’t just cover the disabled and veterans but als includes the elderly (EVERYBODY over the age of 65) That means almost 48 million just for the elderly before you include the rest. However, I presume your comment was meant to compare the per patient cost and I concede that’s probably also higher here than your. Likely because we actually pay doctors what they’re worth. (Eveidenced by the number of your doctors moving here to practice) After all, 10 years of education in a complex field just to get to the point where they’re eligible to take the exam to practice medicine is a pretty big investment in time alone.
     
  19. santaman2000

    santaman2000 M.A.B (Mad About Bushcraft)

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    I at retired from my second (and final) paying career in 2010 at 53 years young. I’m now just n my third career, a non paying (financially non paying) as a grandfather.
     

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