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Retro rucksack

Discussion in 'Carrying' started by Woody girl, Apr 4, 2019.

  1. Erbswurst

    Erbswurst Native

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    I guess, something like Hungarian mountain navy...

    The rucksacks had been very similar during WW2 in the German army.

    The Heer had Tornister, olive with dark brown fur flap, Africa Korps had Tornister , olive without fur, HJ Tornister similar to Africa Korps, but with wood frame, like Herrestornister WW1, because HJ didn't carry a second pair of shoes around.

    Afrika Korps used rucksacks too, mountain troops the Gebirgsjàgerrucksack which became later in a different colour the standard BGS Rucksack with one outer pouch attached to the back and one inner in the main flap and two inner at the sides for shoes replacing the wooden frame of WW1 Heerestornister and one inner compartment to the soldiers back for spare clothing.

    I think the BGS Rucksack with three outer pouches was created in the Wehrmacht but mainly produced after WW2.

    During WW2 the airforce used the blue-gray simpler rucksack with two outer pouches at the back. The Gebirgsjàgerrucksack WW2 / Standard BGS Rucksack was the best german rucksack during WW2 in my opinion. That's the reason, why the BGS got it after the war.

    What Waffen SS used I don't know. Perhaps they had also the Gebirgsjàgerrucksack in the end? In the beginning they used Tornisters.

    After the war the Police got a grey rucksack, perhaps 45 to 50 litres, that is exactly how Woody girl describes it.
    It was larger than the WW2 rucksacks which usually had round about 30 or 35 litres.
    Coat and blanked where attached outside, tent sheed under the flap.

    (Tornisters had only perhaps 25 litres, but a lot of stuff could be attached on it or stored under the flap.)

    My first choice of german WW2 models would be the Wehrmacht Gebirgsjàgerrucksack, but made after the war for the BGS. That stuff exists until today in very good conditions.

    The BGS Rucksack with three pouches looks very interesting too, but that I never had in my hands. All the others I owned and used for many years.

    The grey Polizei Rucksack is to big in my opinion. I don't like it. The weight is to far away from my back if I carry it.

    The Bundeswehr created later a new Gebirgsjàgerrucksack which exists in cotton / leather, younger ones in cotton with plastic buckles and the last ones in Cordura Nylon. The last one I currently use for four seasons, but recommend it to less experienced people only for three seasons use. That isn't big enough for a good real winter sleeping bag.

    For really cold conditions I use the Flecktarn 65 litres Rucksack Cordura that is in use in all parts of the Bundeswehr, or an old swedish made Fjällräven.

    If woody girl wants an old fashioned rucksack in good conditions, the cotton/ leather Bundeswehr Gebirgsjàgerrucksack 34 litres is very interesting too, because it is still relatively cheap and often in very good conditions. Off course: it was made and used in the seventies and eighties, not in WW2! But the older BGS rucksacks from the fifties are often in very good conditions too!

    The Wehrmacht stuff I could buy in the shop, where I can look at it. The risk to get in the fabric destroyed stuff is to high in my opinion if one buys it at e-bay. This market is more for collectors than users I think.
    But yes: I used Wehrmacht equipment for decades without any problems, and my stuff is still fine!
    But I have seen old rubbish in a lot of antique shops too.
     
    #41 Erbswurst, Apr 6, 2019
    Last edited: Apr 6, 2019
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  2. Erbswurst

    Erbswurst Native

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    That here is the Bundeswehr Gebirgsjäger Rucksack, first generation, from the seventies, often called simply "Jägerrucksack".

    https://www.endicotts.co.uk/content/german-gen-1b-canvas-mountain-pack-dkolive

    It is usually available on the German market.

    It has 34 litres volume.

    Everybody tells another volume, but there is only one size and that is 34 litres!

    By pulling the rope at the closure and using the leather straps you can comprimise it of course a bit. That's the reason, why even dealers think, it would be smaller.

    In the inner compartment at the back belongs the German army folding insulation mat.

    (The Wehrmacht did in similar compartments spare clothing for padding the rucksack. Of course you can do that with the BW Jägerrucksack too.)

    Behind the side pouches you can slide in ski, axe, hatchet or whatever.

    In the side pouches fit 1ltr Volvic wide mouth ice tea bottles from the supermarket or 750 ml stainless steel bottles from 360 Degrees but only if you use the metal/ bamboo closure. They fit inclusive the neoprene cover and a 450 ml Robens titanium mug, I guess the Tomshoo titanium mug 450 ml should fit too. But you have to put bottle and mug in a well fitting thin nylon or cotton bag, before you put it in the side pouches, to get it easier out there. That becomes a really tight fit!!!
     
    #42 Erbswurst, Apr 7, 2019
    Last edited: Apr 7, 2019
  3. John Fenna

    John Fenna Lifetime Member & Maker

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  4. Erbswurst

    Erbswurst Native

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    That Swedish rucksack here is looking very good!

    As I see it has a lightweight outer steel frame!

    That is in my opinion the best system for hot weather that ever existed.
    I prefer that by far over everything else, the old and the new Ideas.
    (Unfortunately I can't find my civil rucksacks in that stile. I guess my parents gave them away years ago to poor people, because they had been cheap.)

    That is a totally convincing system!

    https://bushcraftuk.com/community/index.php?threads/help-identifying-framed-rucksack.152211/
     
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  5. Erbswurst

    Erbswurst Native

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    I found two rucksacks.
    Made in Berlin.

    Early Bundeswehr or police I think.

    Grey 40€, bright olive 50€.
    Plus shipping to Britain.

    They look brand new.
    I thought in the first moment they would be current production.

    They are without back strap or frame.
    But the rest is exactly how you asked for.

    Very similar to Wehrmacht Luftwaffe.
    40 litres, perhaps 45 litres.
    Lightweight natural fabric and leather.

    If you send me a PM with your email adress I will send you the detailled photos.

    It is this Model here:
    https://www.etsy.com/de/listing/451929932/vintage-max-stelzer-61-berlin-zb
     
    #45 Erbswurst, Apr 8, 2019
    Last edited: Apr 8, 2019
  6. Woody girl

    Woody girl Full Member

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    I think I may have found one in France. I have a freind in Swansea who used etsy so she's orderd it for me. She had a look on john fennas thread as a guest to get the idea of what I wanted. Should arrive by weekend with luck. Fingers crossed not sureif it's the right colour but fabric dye should sort that
     
  7. Erbswurst

    Erbswurst Native

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    Yes!!!

    I was working the last weak very hard, and so I forgot to tell you about the French rucksack I had in the brain.

    The French army used such a rucksack.

    I used it several years and gave it later to my brother. It is exactly how you asked for.

    It is very light. I really loved it and never would have sold it. Simply a great pack!

    If the straps are hard, give it a lot of LEATHER OIL and a lot of time!
    I used very succesfull COLLONIL LEATHER OIL to reactivate such stuff and could safe more than 30 historic rucksacks, which are in use until today. I did it with French, German, Swedish, Austrian and Swiss military stuff, a lot of it is more than 100 years old and we used it really for hiking and bushcraft.
     
  8. Woody girl

    Woody girl Full Member

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    We missed that green one by 3 days.. the exact one I wanted grr:mad:!:cry:
     
  9. Erbswurst

    Erbswurst Native

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    What?
    I don't understand you.

    1.) The French pattern I mean looks nearly like the Max Stelzer Rucksack. It has the back strap an a sort of metal frame, made from a cross of metal stripes.
    I can ask the administrator of the French bushcraft forum how this rucksack is called exactly and we could surch for it, if your French rucksack should be in bad conditions. I have seen such a rucksack in Metz in a very small shop and I will come along there during the next year. I think the chance, that it is still there is very high. But I didn't look at it exactly and don't know the condition, because the shop was closed, when I came along.

    2.) The link to the Max Stelzer Rucksack I gave you only to show you a photo of this pattern. I know a shop that has two of this, one in green, one in grey. Both are unused and in perfect conditions. I could send you via e-mail the detailled photos I made for you. I have made photos of every corner and every detail. I had this rucksack in my hand and looked at it half an hour to make sure that I really can recommend to buy it.

    I have the telephone number of this shop and the name of the owner I spoke with.

    He would sell it to you for the price that was declared in the shop plus the real price to send it via post to Britain. He wouldn't ask for money for the service to bring it to the post office.

    I had a really friendly relation to that man and gave him a few informations about interesting equipment he didn't know and which would give his shop an outstanding position in the whole area.

    I didn't ask him to reserve it for you, because I expected your reaction very soon. But I am as good as sure, that it is still there.
    There is a risk that he will sell it over eastern, because that shop is in a very touristic area. But that isn't really a surplus shop any more, it's more a modern outdoor shop with mixed modern stuff for camping, hunting and mainly walk along the beach in bad weather. It was years ago a surplus shop but changed the offers to that stuff he can sell.

    But of course: it's a very cheap very seldom offer. Would I have been there with a car, I would have bought both to sell them for the double price in the internet...
     
  10. Woody girl

    Woody girl Full Member

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    You say you saw a rucksack like that in metz? That is where it is comming from! Maybe I've got it after all! Sorry I have not made any replies to you for a while but things here have been a bit crazy and it's been hard to do anything but concentrate on an unpleasant situation that needs sorting. Thank you all the same. I think if this bag is not good then I will take you up on your lovely offer. I will know in a day or two hopefully before the weekend.
     
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  11. Erbswurst

    Erbswurst Native

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    Funny! The world is a village!

    I think I have seen it in the Garden Street, Rue des Jardins. Next to the cathedral. There are two shops who trade with stuff like that, one had such a rucksack last summer.
     
  12. Erbswurst

    Erbswurst Native

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  13. Janne

    Janne M.A.B (Mad About Bushcraft)

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    Will not adding pockets make the main bag less waterproof?
    The stitching holes?

    I am a little bit confused why people want to go ’retro’, to be frank, if those designs were perfect we would still design all backpacks like that.
    We do not for a reason?
     
  14. Erbswurst

    Erbswurst Native

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    In that times in in central Europe we slept in clothing, and just wrapped a woolen blanket around the pack.

    We slept on the grass, straw or some twigs, cooked over wood fire and took only the essentials with us.

    Now a days people want to carry a lot of comfortable stuff around. That's the reason, why they need larger packs with heavy carrying systems or whatever.

    The tent sheeds in the old times had been nice ponchos, but you needed three or four persons to make a tent from it.

    Now a days people usually don't have friends any more who share the passion to go hiking.
    The solo equipment requests far more weight and volume.
     
  15. John Fenna

    John Fenna Lifetime Member & Maker

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    For me it has an element of harking back to my youth when I was fit, strong and invincible...
    Also an element of trying to avoid modern and highly polluting materials, an element of making stuff myself/self reliance but largely an element of Style.
    Modern gear looks carp!
     
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  16. Janne

    Janne M.A.B (Mad About Bushcraft)

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    I am myself still in the late70's - early 80's tech level.
    I love cordura and superstrong fabrics like that.

    I have a 40L modern daypack, and am always puzzled by the weird design, internal frame, multitude of (for me) senseless straps and flexible nets, and mainly, the fragile thin fabric.
    I like my things to last.

    leather straps are beautiful, but not practical for me.

    I only use leather shoe strings though. All shoes and boots.
     
  17. Erbswurst

    Erbswurst Native

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    Every strap that is attached to the rucksack is one argument more for the seller.

    Some taciticool daypacks have so many straps that one can't see the fabric any more.

    It's realy a miracle that the Iwans came all the way from Novosibirsk to Berlin with the simple Veschmeshok daypack, could carry in there everything they needed and were very successful with that equipment.

    ;0)
     
  18. Janne

    Janne M.A.B (Mad About Bushcraft)

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    It was the Glycol they drank. Some proper Rye bread, a sip of Glycol and you are happy to give your life for the Motherland!

    :)

    It is a matter to only have very little equipment. To work with it.
    the vast majority of people today carry way to much.
    I did the same when I was young. The only thing I always carried 'extra' was a pair of socks.
     
  19. Erbswurst

    Erbswurst Native

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    I guess, they just had been angry.

    Very angry.

    Thanks God they had become tired when they reached us.
     
  20. Woody girl

    Woody girl Full Member

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    Well over a month since I first posted this. I thought I had found one in metz and broke all my rules and ordered one over the interweb on 6th April. Well it never arrived and I have just been told I will get a refund so the money is back in the pot for another go. I have since discovered that the design is based on the ww2 German heer elite mountain troop backpack. I'm not realy after one of those as they will not be green in colour. I have only found tan coloured Chinese copy on the Google Web. They are poorly made and overpriced.
    So I'm still looking.
     

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