Recommendations for bone needles.

[In Wood]

I am looking to make some bone needles and I would like your input on the best raw materials to use.
What type of bone, raw, cooked, treated how, etc, etc.

 

[spiritofold]

Antler's good, so's mammoth ivory. Raw bone is harder than cooked so keeps its point better. Made quite a few for stitching birchbark pots together
Andy >>>>>---------------------------<>

 

[Joe]

I make mine from antler. If you soak it for a few hours you can carve it easily with a knife to rough it out and then finish by abrading.

 

[xylaria]

I use a axe on cooked bird bone, with finshing with flint shards. It is normally the left overs of the sunday joint. Chicken bones are unsuitable unless they are outdoor reared mature birds. There is a good bone in shoulder of lamb joint as well, it has a long natural curve, it think it part of the collar bone.

You learn through practice and i still have alot practice to do to be any good. When first started i used a drimmel multitool quite a bit, but the dust that comes off is really nasty for your lungs, but with hand tools and wetted bone there is far less nasty dust. In new zealand where bone carveing is a native art that is taught in schools, they use water sprays on the bone to stop the dust being produced. If you use wild mammal bone at any point wear a mask (FFP3) as TB and other diseases become infectious in bone particles.

Whatever metal edged tool i use it gets blunted very fast and it get some serious dunks in the edge.

 

[Mike Ameling]

A number of years ago, a friend made a lot of replica Indian items from bone - needles, awls, pins, and gaming sticks/dice. He used raw deer leg bones. But they can have some natural "oils/grease" in them.

And he did not wear a mask when sanding/grinding them on a belt sander. Yup ... he got a nasal cavity infection from breathing in all that organic matter and not getting it flushed back out. At least he wears a mask now.

I haven't worked enough bone to really know much about which would work better - raw or cooked. But some knife makers I know prefer cooked - because it should have less "oils" in it and it cracks less when drying out.

Mikey - that grumpy ol' German blacksmith out in the Hinterlands

 

[Wayland]

I was once told that bone carries more bacteria in it's structure because of micro pores than antler so if you stick yourself with a bone needle it's more likely to infect than an antler one.

Don't know how true that is but I usually use antler because it's a bit more flexible as well.

 

[DKW]

In Denmark back in the days, they used the hollow bones in the legs, from just about any animal hunted for food. In my opinion, roe or red deer seem to work very fine.

Processing is relatively easy, as you more or less only has to give the bone a good smack on the end, with something sturdy and unflexible at the other end, to produce the rawlings.

Any further processing is mainly carving the needle round (-ish, since the needles found actually aren't completely round, much more like a standard cutting needle of today)
And drilling a threadinghole with a spoondrill of the right size, i would carve the threadinghole afterwards, to make the hole long and "flat" like we see it today on metal needles. It is my believe that they did that back in the days aswell.

And as Xylaria has written, water can help, especially on the dust. (Yes, i use Dremel aswell as large machinery, and the dust is nasty over a long period of time. I like the smell though, don't know why )

 

[In Wood]

Thanks for all the great info there guys.
Hmmm, dust, nasal infections, is that why I am loaded with a cold at the moment, I spent ages rubbing down some antler last week, did not bother about the dust, I didn’t realise it was a major problem.
Thanks for the tip, dust masks will be used.

I tried to use some of my dogs bone (not from my dog) some of his cow bone, but it just splintered / crumbled and seems very brittle in deed.

I will keep trying various methods as you guys have suggested.

 

[Shambling Shaman]

Thanks for a great thread, have some antlers knocking about will try out some of the ideas.

 

[xylaria]

In new zealand the bone artists don't seem to use power tools, and don't wear masks, they just spray the work intermittantly with water. They also seem to favour cooked cow bone from pet shops, as the it supposedly closest to the whale bone Moaris used to use. Power tools make alot of very fine dust which then blown by the motor in to the air. Hand tools on the other hand make a heavier dust which drops on the work surface.

I don't use uncooked bone because i find the membane that surrounds the bone makes it too slippy to work safely. I have two sets of antlers but i haven't tried working any yet. I looks like it will be as differant from bone as bone is from wood.

Moari's also have a tradition that an item is worn close to the carvers skin for a period, so it develops "Mana". this is a smoothness that develops when a piece of bone picks oils from human skin. I have found needles become slippy when used through gaining Mana, and they glide better through the work, but scrimshawing has be added to increase grip. Only at that point would the needle would be regarded as finshed to a Moari.