what would be a `natural `lifestyle choice in your opinion ??? not having a dig at you just curious !!
rabbit starvation
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what would be a `natural `lifestyle choice in your opinion ??? not having a dig at you just curious !!
no worries on the thread derailment, the question was answered enough to enable the question to be answered 
i think crazydave was meaning that it would be wrong to force a child into a veggie diet as the evolved natural diet of humans does include animal matter, we are omnivorous by design, probably eat too much meat in the modern world and have the knowledge and skills to thrive as veggies/vegans
as Toddy says, its a healthy balanced diet that is important, no one with a right mind would dispute that a good veggie diet isnt healthy or isnt healthier than that a large proportion of the population eat, CD added the health aspect of choice and being respected by your parents
could be wrong though
i think crazydave was meaning that it would be wrong to force a child into a veggie diet as the evolved natural diet of humans does include animal matter, we are omnivorous by design, probably eat too much meat in the modern world and have the knowledge and skills to thrive as veggies/vegans
as Toddy says, its a healthy balanced diet that is important, no one with a right mind would dispute that a good veggie diet isnt healthy or isnt healthier than that a large proportion of the population eat, CD added the health aspect of choice and being respected by your parents
could be wrong though
Would you not maybe be better putting on weight before a trip that might leave you stranded enough that the need to eat candles became a life or death action ?
Better the fat on you than in something so hard to eat or digest I'd have thought
Just an idea.
cheers,
Toddy
You mean like Ray Mears
not at all and I probably rushed writing the post, genetically we are omnivores and a predator so a varied diet is a must. it is possible to give balanced vegetarian diet but much harder a vegan one.
I have known kids who didnt want to be vegatarian but one parent had seen the light and was trying to force it on the child to the extent of taking away a half eaten packed of crisps because it used animal rennet. same child was then prescribed cod liver oil and then a balanced diet because the vegetarian one was in effect causing brain damage. the damage was allready done though and it was a limitation exercise. if an adult messes their diet up thats fine and relatively short lived, if you fail to provide your child with enough to let it develop properly they will suffer all their lives. my mother in law is a selfish cow and refused to give up coffee and fags during pregnancy so repeatedly miscarried and my missus who is an only child has lots of badly made bits inside which has meant she cant have kids and she will suffer athritis due to ball and socket joints which are egg shaped. all because she wasnt nourished properly in the womb and the same goes for childhood. fish was called brain food before we understood omega three and essential oils.
I dont think its hijacking jons thread but diversifying, dietary choices can be misleading and plain wrong, you just have to see all the faddy diets out there which are supposed to make us healthy but poor. the smoothie is an wastefull aberration in my book and gillian mckeith should be burnt as a witch.
coming from the military I've allways had an interest in emergency foodstuffs, a lot of foreign countries include a daily vitamin pill as the menu while calorific might not be so healthy. back to the royal navy it was the humble dried pea and lemon juice which made the navy what it was.
going back to rabbits its interesting how we can combat the malnutrition, native survival skills would include eating the stomach contents of a kill or feeding it to the elderly or invalided. supposedly we could eat rabbit pellets and get some benefit from them in the same way we gain some vitamins from eating grass. the tree lichens in the artic circle cant be eaten without a lot of processing as featured by mr mears I believe but taking it out of the stomach of the reindeer it can be eaten. a few dried fruits/nuts or pine needle tea could have saved the trappers some grief.
native diets are interesting as there are very few non meat diets, most including out own might have have meat as a treat or a feast to use it up before it goes off like the jungle pig. the innuit diet would consume it raw which scientists have now worked out gives the most benefit. the japanese diet while mainly vegetarian is rich in fish.
I have known kids who didnt want to be vegatarian but one parent had seen the light and was trying to force it on the child to the extent of taking away a half eaten packed of crisps because it used animal rennet. same child was then prescribed cod liver oil and then a balanced diet because the vegetarian one was in effect causing brain damage. the damage was allready done though and it was a limitation exercise. if an adult messes their diet up thats fine and relatively short lived, if you fail to provide your child with enough to let it develop properly they will suffer all their lives. my mother in law is a selfish cow and refused to give up coffee and fags during pregnancy so repeatedly miscarried and my missus who is an only child has lots of badly made bits inside which has meant she cant have kids and she will suffer athritis due to ball and socket joints which are egg shaped. all because she wasnt nourished properly in the womb and the same goes for childhood. fish was called brain food before we understood omega three and essential oils.
I dont think its hijacking jons thread but diversifying, dietary choices can be misleading and plain wrong, you just have to see all the faddy diets out there which are supposed to make us healthy but poor. the smoothie is an wastefull aberration in my book and gillian mckeith should be burnt as a witch.
coming from the military I've allways had an interest in emergency foodstuffs, a lot of foreign countries include a daily vitamin pill as the menu while calorific might not be so healthy. back to the royal navy it was the humble dried pea and lemon juice which made the navy what it was.
going back to rabbits its interesting how we can combat the malnutrition, native survival skills would include eating the stomach contents of a kill or feeding it to the elderly or invalided. supposedly we could eat rabbit pellets and get some benefit from them in the same way we gain some vitamins from eating grass. the tree lichens in the artic circle cant be eaten without a lot of processing as featured by mr mears I believe but taking it out of the stomach of the reindeer it can be eaten. a few dried fruits/nuts or pine needle tea could have saved the trappers some grief.
native diets are interesting as there are very few non meat diets, most including out own might have have meat as a treat or a feast to use it up before it goes off like the jungle pig. the innuit diet would consume it raw which scientists have now worked out gives the most benefit. the japanese diet while mainly vegetarian is rich in fish.
BOD
Bushcrafter (boy, I've got a lot to say!)
Dang, BOD got to it before I did.
That http://www.medbio.info/Horn/PDF files/rabbit starvation.pdf article is excellent. Good find!!!
My recollection is that the liver doesn't convert protein to glucose sequentially, it doesn't do a bit, then go back and do a bit more. It will use all available ATP to get all available protein as far through the process as possible, then stall when it runs out of ATP. It can/does stall at a point where it has produced ammonia, hence people getting weaker faster than could be explained by low callorie intake alone.
Thanks for the reminder Chris. Didn't he do a post on this subject way back?
I don't know Gillian McKeith but I disagree about burning witches, they know too much good stuff to waste like that
There was a thread not so long ago discussing this, and the latest bits of research actually point to us modern humans having evolved to eat a cooked diet. Not just meat either, indeed cooking frees up much more of the potential nourishment from grains, roots and the like than it would otherwise be possible for us to absorb from raw food digestion.
My doctor once tried to explain why he knew so many overweight vegetarians. He said that we ate all the good stuff, the best of foods. If we wanted to be slim we ought to let the animals eat them first and then just eat bits of the animal. Just add a big salad at every meal and we'd be skinny in no time.......you'll note I'm still a wee cuddly lady
cheers,
Toddy
There was a thread not so long ago discussing this, and the latest bits of research actually point to us modern humans having evolved to eat a cooked diet. Not just meat either, indeed cooking frees up much more of the potential nourishment from grains, roots and the like than it would otherwise be possible for us to absorb from raw food digestion.
My doctor once tried to explain why he knew so many overweight vegetarians. He said that we ate all the good stuff, the best of foods. If we wanted to be slim we ought to let the animals eat them first and then just eat bits of the animal. Just add a big salad at every meal and we'd be skinny in no time
.......you'll note I'm still a wee cuddly lady cheers,
Toddy
its all that cake, chocolate, cheese, butter and water retention, fatty nuts and high carbs cant ease matters.
not sure about cooked food but we are geared up for digesting warm freshly killed meat, the change to grains and carbs have messed our teeth up and we havent managed to evolve out of it yet by having more tooth cycles.
not sure about cooked food but we are geared up for digesting warm freshly killed meat, the change to grains and carbs have messed our teeth up and we havent managed to evolve out of it yet by having more tooth cycles.
See that's a commonly repeated statement but it's not bourne out by the actual evidence.
If we were built to eat freshly dead meat we would have carnivores teeth.
We don't.
If we were built to eat loads of fresh veggie stuff we'd have jaws like a gorillia.
We don't.
If we were built to be truly omniverous we'd have teeth that gnawed and chewed like rats and rabbits.
We don't.
What we do have are the short guts of those who eat nutrient rich food (those wonderful cherrypicking hands and colour vision eyes of ours find the best stuff ) teeth that bite into but don't grasp (small canines, relatively blunt incisors) and molar teeth that are suitable for reducing what ever we've bitten off into paste. Not ridged ones like cattle or sharp ones like sheep and goats.
We're not half way anything, *we are human*.
We have the ability to eat whatever we damned well please and we can do so because we can cook it. Process it, make even the toughest stuff edible.
Personal choice is just that. Vegetarian, Carnivore, Omnivore, Vegan, Fruitarian.........can't think of any more...........but we do need variety to stay truly healthy. There's so much overlap though, if there's something that someone will not eat, there's always something else that will provide.
cheers,
Toddy
p.s. I don't eat those cakes and the like. Your M I L really did do a number methinks
If we were built to eat freshly dead meat we would have carnivores teeth.
We don't.
If we were built to eat loads of fresh veggie stuff we'd have jaws like a gorillia.
We don't.
If we were built to be truly omniverous we'd have teeth that gnawed and chewed like rats and rabbits.
We don't.
What we do have are the short guts of those who eat nutrient rich food (those wonderful cherrypicking hands and colour vision eyes of ours find the best stuff ) teeth that bite into but don't grasp (small canines, relatively blunt incisors) and molar teeth that are suitable for reducing what ever we've bitten off into paste. Not ridged ones like cattle or sharp ones like sheep and goats.
We're not half way anything, *we are human*.
We have the ability to eat whatever we damned well please and we can do so because we can cook it. Process it, make even the toughest stuff edible.
Personal choice is just that. Vegetarian, Carnivore, Omnivore, Vegan, Fruitarian.........can't think of any more...........but we do need variety to stay truly healthy. There's so much overlap though, if there's something that someone will not eat, there's always something else that will provide.
cheers,
Toddy
p.s. I don't eat those cakes and the like. Your M I L really did do a number methinks
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you missed one - Kangatarians..
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/wor...7222088/Kangatarians-emerge-in-Australia.html
kangaroo is really nice. Puts a nice spring in your step..
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/wor...7222088/Kangatarians-emerge-in-Australia.html
kangaroo is really nice. Puts a nice spring in your step..
it is indeed, swmbo was most put out when we stayed over at a roo farm and she spent the afternoon petting some young and i spent the evening eatings its parent!
yum
ah come on, there's nothing wrong with a veggie diet. My missus is 31, 6' 2" and really, really healthy. she's been vegetarian all her life apart from in the past 6 years or so since she started eating fish.
I've also met kids who like eating nothing but chips and burgers who can barely stand up, don't know what a fork is and don't know what cabbage is.
surely the REAL trick is getting a little bit of everything your body needs, possible in even a vegan diet.
So for me, I'd be looking to supplement my rabbit diet with kale and chips.
it is doable but not in a natural enviroment, we evolved as opportunists and our closest ancestors are carnivorous when the chance presents itself. if you watch chimps they eat plants, grasses, nuts, berries, bugs, grubs and smaller monkeys. as opposed to the apples and banana diet they get in the wildlife park.
if we didnt fly all our food in all year round then the lifestyle choice would be restricted to few hardcore souls. existing on porridge, lentils and seaweed! like the uni girls I used to hang out with back in '87 who drove a shared 2cv and would invite me round for nut cutlets, green beans and cous cous
the way we play with food now a lot of the veggie meals you find which arent home cooked arent the healthy option they may appear to be.
if we didnt fly all our food in all year round then the lifestyle choice would be restricted to few hardcore souls. existing on porridge, lentils and seaweed! like the uni girls I used to hang out with back in '87 who drove a shared 2cv and would invite me round for nut cutlets, green beans and cous cous
the way we play with food now a lot of the veggie meals you find which arent home cooked arent the healthy option they may appear to be.
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Thought the rabbit thing was something missing that we need to live, so if you only eat them, you die. If it does involve fats, certain vits stay in our fat so you can build them up really quickly, and then they kill us.
Think the whole energy thing does not make sense as you can just snare them.
Few things : -
1) Until in this situation then you have a choice, eat meat or die. You need protein to live, and there is no way to get enough unless you grow it.
2) There is diet book called eat right for your type. The author is trying to explain why certain diets work for certain people. He argues that how you should eat is tied to your blood type. So all of us O's were first and work better on a meat major diet(Cave man). Then the farms came along, bringing with them the A's (I think), and so on. Never seen anyone out right attack this but the problem is stated in the book, blood needs a lot more research, but other things have pushed it to the back.
3) Is not the weight thing down to processing? What I mean is veg breaks down easier, and takes longer to fill you. Celery is energy neutral for example. Meats are at the other end, and protein makes you full quickier. The big problem is most of us eat a heavy meat diet without hunting the animal all day first.
Try to eat veggie at least once a week, and am starting to grow my own because they taste better. Plus you get better choice.
Think the whole energy thing does not make sense as you can just snare them.
Y'know? I'm *really* glad I'm veggie
cheers,
M
Few things : -
1) Until in this situation then you have a choice, eat meat or die. You need protein to live, and there is no way to get enough unless you grow it.
2) There is diet book called eat right for your type. The author is trying to explain why certain diets work for certain people. He argues that how you should eat is tied to your blood type. So all of us O's were first and work better on a meat major diet(Cave man). Then the farms came along, bringing with them the A's (I think), and so on. Never seen anyone out right attack this but the problem is stated in the book, blood needs a lot more research, but other things have pushed it to the back.
3) Is not the weight thing down to processing? What I mean is veg breaks down easier, and takes longer to fill you. Celery is energy neutral for example. Meats are at the other end, and protein makes you full quickier. The big problem is most of us eat a heavy meat diet without hunting the animal all day first.
Try to eat veggie at least once a week, and am starting to grow my own because they taste better. Plus you get better choice.
I'm not going into the whole eat meat or die thing again: suffice to say that I believe that humans have a strand to their makeup that finds some behaviour so abhorrant that they could not, would not, do some things.
Call it fatalism or whatever, but the only certain thing about this life is that it ends.
A long time ahead we hope
cheers,
Toddy
Call it fatalism or whatever, but the only certain thing about this life is that it ends.
A long time ahead we hope
cheers,
Toddy
You can live on rabbit only if you eat the brain,eyes, and all eatable internal organs.
Some whites explorers wintering over with Indians starved and the Indians did not. Only difference Indians ate the whole animal. Not following the Indians example , in dining , cost the whites their lives.
Some whites explorers wintering over with Indians starved and the Indians did not. Only difference Indians ate the whole animal. Not following the Indians example , in dining , cost the whites their lives.
ooo oo please can we get onto the nature versus nuture topic now then?
ill take the side of biochemical behavourism
Use the search !!!
Seriously, it went on and on and on.
cheers,
M
