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Quackwatch

Discussion in 'Hygiene and First Aid / Medicinal' started by rik_uk3, Sep 28, 2012.

  1. rik_uk3

    rik_uk3 Banned

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    This is a good site for those of us who, lets say, doubt the claims made of some herbal remedies

    http://www.quackwatch.com/

    Worth a look at.
     
  2. BoonDoc

    BoonDoc Forager

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    Definitely a good source to sort out herbal remedies that are not scientifically proven.

    Scholar.google.com has some good research of herbal remedies that actually work.

    Don't throw the baby out with the bath water. A large part of our pharmacology can be traced back to plants.
     
  3. rik_uk3

    rik_uk3 Banned

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    I've nothing against alternative medicine so long as its proven. What does really really worry me is that on a lot of outdoor forums people post up some 'alternative' to proven treatments and some newbie believes it, gets sick and suffers. A lot of what we take everyday started off as a home recipe somewhere along the line but use what is proven before trying something that is not.

    Nowt wrong with playing 'Devil's Advocate' at times.
     
  4. Gaudette

    Gaudette Full Member

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    Anybody who has a remote interest in supposed " alternative medicine" is well aware of Quackwatch and Dr Stephen Barrett. As has been said on this forum many times beware taking what you read on the Internet as truth. This man is discredited as much as the treatments he seems to despise so much.


    --------------------------------------------
    "If we had some bacon we could have bacon and eggs, if we had some eggs"
     
  5. wattsy

    wattsy Native

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    I like Dara O'Briain's view on alternative medicine. "they tested it all, and the stuff that worked became 'medicine'. everything else is just a nice bowl of soup and some pot-pourri"

    I've found some herbal remedies do work for the odd headache or nettle sting but I'll stick to medically proven treatments for anything serious
     
  6. Gaudette

    Gaudette Full Member

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  7. demographic

    demographic Bushcrafter (boy, I've got a lot to say!)

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    Seen that site before. I particularly like the homoeopathic section...
     
  8. BoonDoc

    BoonDoc Forager

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    There was a good article in the paper last weekend about doctors realising that the research conducted on the drugs that they prescribe as being faulty.

    The Americans did a study that showed that 1/3 of all research is faked and 1/3 of all research is backed by organisations with a financial stake in the outcome.

    That tells me that science really works when it is science......not bias or paid for particular outcomes.

    We need scientific trials. We just need them to be pure science.
     
  9. santaman2000

    santaman2000 M.A.B (Mad About Bushcraft)

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    To the best of my knowledge ALL reasearch drug is done by the drug companies that intend to market said drugs. That said, it's in their best interest (finacially and criminally) not to bring anything to market that will get them sued or arrested later.
     
  10. abominable_scouse_monster

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    As others have said, I am sure some of the natural treatment works and lots of real pharmacology has root's in the natural world and say "Fruit A has compound B, that will assist with illness C, that science can concentrate into medicine D that treats illness C with the compound B in Fruit A does but as it's more concentrated and refined it has a much better effect than Fruit A". But there is some silly stuff like Homoeopathy, how any one with more than a single brain cell believes that works is beyond all rational explanation without resorting to rather insulting words.

    However the insane stuff such as powdered rhino horn will make you Casanova, a poultice of nettles and goat droppings with cure you of cancer of the little toe and how fruits and berry's will cure AIDS is not just insane but down right harmful and any one who recommends it as a treatment should be locked up for the protection of others. Or the bizarre and rather sad case of the Swiss woman who starved to death following a rather idiotic Indian Yogi following his claims that he has not ate or drank for 70 years as he lives on a diet of pure sunlight.

    That is a good link by the way, Also the Bad Science blog is a good one too.
     
  11. John Fenna

    John Fenna Lifetime Member & Maker

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    Oooh - I love it... a site discreditting Herbal and alternative medicine .. written by a discreditted "MD"...
    Makes me trust "scientific" medicine less and alternative medicine more!
    Personally I have had a chiro restore the use of my right arm through manipulation of my neck and back (I was crushing the nerves between my collarbone and a displaced 1st rib ... the "scientific" NHS said " take these pills" - just strong pain killers - the chiro had me out of pain in 20 mins with manipulation and relaxing massage (but it took 2 years to get everything to the point where I was totally happy and I still occassionally need a "tune up") - and I am a trained and certificated (but no longer insured) Aromatherapist - I know from personal experience how effective this is!
    I recieve Reiki healing and find it very effective for stress related problems.
    I better go along for another session after reading the BS on that website!
    PS - The Reiki I get is Free of charge at our local Spiritual Centre - the practitioners gain nothing and give up their time and fuel expenses just to offer a service to the community.
     
  12. santaman2000

    santaman2000 M.A.B (Mad About Bushcraft)

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    Chiropractice has a rather mixed reception among mainstream MDs over here. Few (if any) dispute that it actually works. Most objections seem to be centered around the idea that rather than "curing" it alleviates symptoms and thus might mask further diagnosis. That said, many MDs here will refer patients to chiropractic treatments as preferable to a course of drugs for chronic pain. Particularly if drugs might be contra indicated. My daughter's doctor referred her during her last pregnancy as a treatment for her back pain as they were reluctant to precribe drugs during pregnancy.
     
    #12 santaman2000, Sep 29, 2012
    Last edited: Sep 29, 2012
  13. mountainm

    mountainm Full Member

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    "Belief" in itself is strong medicine. Hence the placebo effect.
     
  14. abominable_scouse_monster

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    Yes it is but it has a limit, and the placebo effect it's self is limited, for instance we know that two fake pill's a day are more effective than one a day and a saline injection is more powerful than that, even right up to the point where people have been sedated for a operation not operated on and report feeling better when they come round. But it won't work in all cases and there is a suspicion amongst some doctors that the most susceptible people are some what hypochondriacs, and any form of medical attention will lead to a improvement in condition, as it's nearly always a affliction caused by the mind alone.

    But it will not cure a real condition, nor will it work in all cases like trauma or sudden urgent conditions like heart attacks, strokes etc.
     
    #14 abominable_scouse_monster, Sep 29, 2012
    Last edited: Sep 29, 2012
  15. mountainm

    mountainm Full Member

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    I wasn't advocating it as a treatment. More using it to explain perceived benefits of treatments like reiki healing.
     
  16. sandsnakes

    sandsnakes Full Member

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    ......To the best of my knowledge ALL reasearch drug is done by the drug companies that intend to market said drugs. That said, it's in their best interest (finacially and criminally) not to bring anything to market that will get them sued or arrested later........

    Unfortunatly that little bit of thought slipped them by when seroxat was reccomend for teenage depression. Bad science and corruption abounds on both sides of the fence.

    Sandsnakes
     
    #16 sandsnakes, Sep 29, 2012
    Last edited: Sep 29, 2012
  17. rik_uk3

    rik_uk3 Banned

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  18. Toddy

    Toddy Mod
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    Isn't it funny though; how world wide, as soon as prescription drugs become available, that people give up their herbal remedies.

    The reason's simple; many of them really, really do work.
    Antibiotics, antihistamine, the Pill, anti-inflammatories, anti-cancer, immunisations.............

    I grow, gather and use herbs. I've done so all my life. I know that they work, but I know what I've grown, where it's grown, when it's been gathered, how it's been stored, and time and experience, slowly built up, taught me what works.

    However, in this day and age of Instant Fix, Instant Knowledge, Instant Internet/ tweeted/ fb'd, boosted reputations, it's all too easy to believe that there are cures for everything.

    There aren't. Life is finite, maturity and ageing and wear and tear and genetic fallabilities get us all eventually.

    The potions of the pharmacist can be wonderful, but they can be a two edged sword. So are herbs.

    Even the adage, "Do No Harm!", doesn't quite work.
    I watched my son endure treatment for cancer, and the whole time my soul was screaming that the drugs were poisoning him. They were; it's how they work. The body heals though, and the cancer is dead :) The skill is in doing it the right way round. Only science based research did that.

    A little knowledge is a dangerous thing; research is good, because it not only widens the knowledge we have, refines it, but it leaves the conclusions open to scrutiny.

    Hopefully, that Internet everything means that that scrutiny now is more and more robust, and erroneous conclusions, botched research, and misleading claims for herbal wonders too, will be exposed to such an audience that discernment becomes de rigeur in anyone intending to use such medicines.


    One last thought :) there's a hugely overlooked benefit to be obtained from the 'hands on' techniques. Skilled practicioners can make a wonderful difference in the quality of our lives. We have five major senses, add in our emotional balances, and if they're all comfortable, we not only feel so much better, we're on a better footing to heal properly and stay healthy.
    I think anyone whose medicine cabinet/chest/drawer contains 'only' chemist produced items, is really short changing themselves.

    Thank you for the links :D

    cheers,
    Toddy
     
  19. santaman2000

    santaman2000 M.A.B (Mad About Bushcraft)

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    Had to look that one up. It's known as paxil over here. I don't know of any anti depressents reccomended for minors over here. I might be wrong though.
     
  20. Woadhart

    Woadhart Member

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    Toddy is a smart cookie at times.

    I think that is the most sensible post I have ever seen someone make in one of these kinds of threads. People usually end up grinding their own axes rather than sharing some wisdom.
     

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