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Neanderthals - more sophisticated than previously thought?

Discussion in 'Bushcraft Chatter' started by gregorach, Jul 2, 2009.

  1. gregorach

    gregorach Bushcrafter (boy, I've got a lot to say!)

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    A very interesting article from this week's Four Stone Hearth, based on a recent paper in in the Journal of Archaeological Science: Neanderthals Dried Fresh Meat, Wore Tailored Clothing – Energy Study.

    The paper is available in its entirety from Professor Sørensen’s website: Energy use by Eem Neanderthals [PDF - 60 kB]

    Abstract:

     
  2. sandbender

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    Interesting stuff, thanks for the link. :)
     
  3. Toddy

    Toddy Mod
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    Cheers Gregorach :D

    Off for a read with my coffee. :)

    atb,
    M
     
  4. HillBill

    HillBill Bushcrafter through and through

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    We seem to have a habit of belittling our ancestors and their acheivements. We believe we are more advanced than they were.

    But are we? Technology if anything makes us inferior to our ancestors as the people themselves are weaker because of it.?

    Why did the egyptians, sumarians etc know about pluto thousands of years ago yet it was not discovered until 1950 something.

    Every time a culture or civilisation ends the knowledge they had tends to be lost with it.

    Sumaria( human version) lasted 3000 years the egyptians 2000 the romans 1000 the UK or the US maybe 500 at the most.

    Who knew the most? I'll say not us anyway.
     
  5. sandbender

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    What is the current thinking here? are we (in part) descended from Neanderthal man?
     
  6. Toddy

    Toddy Mod
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    The thing is though HillBill that we write and observe from out very modern viewpoint.
    In the future they might well describe *British* as beginning with the final retreat of the Romans from these Islands (407ce when Constantine111 withdrew the troops form Britian to set up the Gallic Empire).........so on those terms our society is already 1600 years old, and look at the developments we have made. :cool:

    Or they might instead describe this time as being a Christian Empire..........with it's roots in Israel 2,000 years ago. Or Muslin which would be younger, or Jewish which would be considerably older.

    cheers.
    Toddy
     
  7. Toddy

    Toddy Mod
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    DNA analysis and the study of their bones says, "No."

    The human cline exhibits such diverse physical chacteristics, from dark skinned, curly haired brown eyed pygmies to exceptionally tall white skinned blue eyed blonds,that the fact that we can identify individuals as 'Neanderthal' demonstrates that the differences are profound.

    Enough that it no more likely that Homo sapiens sapiens and Homo sapiens neanderthalis could breed than could an orang utan and a mountain gorilla.

    Lot of people still trying to find cross breeds, the individuals found in the Israeli caves for instance, but in the end they come down as one or the other, not a mix.

    cheers,
    Toddy
     
  8. gregorach

    gregorach Bushcrafter (boy, I've got a lot to say!)

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    I believe that's currently something of an open question. There is some evidence from bones that there may have been some interbreeding, however, more recent DNA research seems to indicate that any genetic contribution from the Neanderthal population was very small, if it exists at all.

    Odd Skull Boosts Human, Neandertal Interbreeding Theory

    Neandertals, Modern Humans Interbred, Bone Study Suggests

    Neanderthal DNA Shows They Rarely Interbred With Us Very Different Humans

    Blow to Neanderthal breeding theory

    It's a very difficult question to settle. Given the diversity of "anatomically modern humans", it's dangerous to draw firm conclusions from the bones of individuals.

    EDIT: I see Toddy has beaten me to it. That's what I get for looking for references... ;)
     
  9. sandbender

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    Many thanks to you both I will check out those links later today. :)
     
  10. Toddy

    Toddy Mod
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    I think it would be wonderful to definitively prove that the two species could, and did, interbreed. In terms of time, their demise is only the blink of an eye. So close and yet so far.

    I did hear someone talk of using Neanderthal DNA in an attempt at invitro using HSS egg and sperm. Like resurrecting the mammoth using elephants. I don't think the DNA that has been recovered is in any fit state for that level of 'creation' though.

    Hoodoo might well have a much better way of describing it than I do.

    It's a topic that interests people and there's a lot of research being done on Neanderthals because there is funding available. Lots of very odd people claiming to have 'proof' but nothing seems to come of it under scientific scrutiny.

    cheers,
    Toddy
     
  11. gregorach

    gregorach Bushcrafter (boy, I've got a lot to say!)

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    All the DNA studies I've heard of use mitochondrial rather than nuclear DNA, so it's not likely to be much use for that sort of thing. I don't even know if anyone has successfully isolated nuclear DNA from a Neanderthal. It's not a subject I follow very closely...
     
  12. HillBill

    HillBill Bushcrafter through and through

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    I don't really know tbh, in neanderthals time there were 5 homo species roaming the planet. I would go so far to say that some people will probably have their genes in one form or another.
     
  13. gregorach

    gregorach Bushcrafter (boy, I've got a lot to say!)

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    D'oh! Should've googled first... There are various reports of studies on nuclear DNA from back in '06... E.g: Nuclear DNA Analysis Proves Neanderthals Were a Different Species.

     
  14. HillBill

    HillBill Bushcrafter through and through

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    Thats a good point Toddy. We know about the ancient civs through texts and buildings left behind. In the computer age all our knowledge/text is on a database. If the solar storms knock out the grid as feared in the future, what evidence or text will others be able to read of ours in say 200 years even. It only takes a couple of generations for the true tales to be lost. we may even become the society that never was. We may even dissapear altogether eventually.
     
  15. gregorach

    gregorach Bushcrafter (boy, I've got a lot to say!)

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    Oh, I don't know about that - we've left plenty of durable evidence of our material culture lying around. The interpretation of that evidence may be a little tricky, but it will be there, and in far greater quantities than that left by any previous culture. How many pennies do you think are lost out there?
     
  16. Adrian

    Adrian Full Member

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    I think that anyone who's met Sandbender would definitely consider the possibility of human/neanderthal interbreeding:D
     
  17. sandbender

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    Now that is unfair, I look nothing like a neanderthal!

    [​IMG]

    :D
     
  18. Toddy

    Toddy Mod
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    Oi !
    I firmly suspect that the females of the species might differ opinions with you :D

    cheers,
    Toddy, Varibo, Barrie, Jo.........et al
     
  19. drewdunnrespect

    drewdunnrespect On a new journey

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    this neanderthal stuff is dead interesting but considering that if we said the earth has been around for just a year (hypotheticly speaking).
    Humans would have only been around for the last six seconds of new years eve of that year. so unless neanderthals were around during that time it one wouldnt be possible.

    and this is my question would we not have known about them sooner if they had of been around when we have or have i picked the wrong end of the stick up

    drew
     
  20. Tengu

    Tengu Full Member

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    Theres plenty of overlap.

    In fact the Basques are descendants of the original modern humans in the area. (and they are a fastinating lot)
     

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