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Living primitive?

Discussion in 'Bushcraft and survival skills' started by Earthpeace, Sep 24, 2006.

  1. jojo

    jojo Need to contact Admin...

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    Earthpeace. How about Llama trekking??? I think I have seen that somewhere in england? :) oops, I only tried the photo of the Llamas :D
     
  2. Earthpeace

    Earthpeace Tenderfoot

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    yes llamas are good for packing too (+ cart driving), I've trained my stud to pack and jump things. Hes good, I'm saving up some money to buy some llama packs ( I've been trainning him will bike paners). I was going to get the wooden packs so i can take the paners off and fetch small logs back home with them or tranporting water+hay around the farm. ;)
     
  3. longshot

    longshot Need to contact Admin...

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    hey earthpeace long time no hear. just wondering if theres anything new. im really enjoying seeing your farm and how you do things.


    dean
     
  4. Earthpeace

    Earthpeace Tenderfoot

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    Sorry Guys
    Been quite busy, I,ve been fencing a new field off for the llamas so they can get to the shed thats in the field. Its been raining all week so I've been catching up on my spinning. Just finished some hats ready for winter. I plan to start Taxiderming now all the flys have about gone, I've got nearly a freezer full of road killed animals that people keep picking up for me. Go's to show how much demage cars do to the wild animal numbers. :(
    We been thinning out on the animals too, the ones we don't want to feed through the winter. Chistmas soon :eek: another year past far too quickly......
    :D
     
  5. pierre girard

    pierre girard Need to contact Admin...

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    Not too sure about this one. I've worked on the Aleutian Islands. Not pleasent. A week and you'd be screaming to get off.

    PG
     
  6. OldBaldGuy

    OldBaldGuy Member

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    Please don't take this wrong, for I am not trying to put you down, or belittle your lifestyle, but I have a hard time equating "primative" living with computers, internet access, digital cameras, stainless steel electric appliances, fossil fueled tractors, powered log splitters, etc.
     
  7. BOD

    BOD Bushcrafter (boy, I've got a lot to say!)

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    It may not be stone age but at least they are out there and doing it.

    Even real primitive indigenous peoples like the benefits of electricity and fossil fueled machines though many seem to adopt the worst aspects of the industrail and consumer age.

    Perhaps the best is a fusion lifestyle and Earthpeace and her family are trying to manage the yin and yang of the traditional and the modern. It is a valuable experiment.

    Will it last another generation? Maybe not but if one can get enough people to try then the tipping point may be reached and we may start to use fossil fuels and technology more responsibly.

    Earthpeace, do you use solar or wind powered machines?
     
  8. pierre girard

    pierre girard Need to contact Admin...

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    Then there is always the family who moved into our area to farm on 1000 wooded acres. No engines allowed. They'd have been better off supporting themselves by hunting or fishing. Not only was 1000 acres too little land to grow enough crops to feed themselves in our area - even if they could've managed to log it all using axes and horses - the soil was too poor to grow hay enough to feed their horses. They had to have the hay trucked in - but only to the property line.

    One of the horses broke through the ice on a swamp, and the man would not allow the neighbor to bring in a tractor to pull the horse out. After three days the horse died.

    There was a continual series of misadventures with this crew. I could go on and on...
     
  9. BOD

    BOD Bushcrafter (boy, I've got a lot to say!)

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    Eco "logical" fundamentalists by the sound of them.

    But if they were true back to nature people and not ideologues they should have hunted and fished.

    The man sounds like the character in paul theroux's Mosquito Coast.

    What happened to them in the end? i mean your neighbours
     
  10. pierre girard

    pierre girard Need to contact Admin...

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    They've had many and varied misadventures. Really don't want to get specific on a public forum.
     
  11. Earthpeace

    Earthpeace Tenderfoot

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    OldBaldGuy
    I see you're point. We have a very long get rid off list ,which is the reason we are starting to use the working horse's more and more. But with this kind of life style its a long term thing, its not possible to learn the hundreds of skills at once. Each little tiny item on the shopping list can take years to learn. Like making are own clothes from scrach. As for appliances most of the things we use are hand turned eg the butter churn, cream seperater and the other skills like spinning/knitting and tanning use's no electric. As for the internet we got this for the simple reason that the items we are looking for, to make are life simpler can not be find on the supermaket shelf and also to get info on how to make things like tallow candle and looking up good books.
    As for having electic from the grid, its on the top of the get rind of list, Its strange realy because when we had the storm in the winter of 2000 that cut the electic off for 3 weeks we did not realy miss it. This storm learnt us a lesson not to rely on freezers, we had just finished cramming the last of are two chest freezer full of meat and veg to last us the winter, of course it all defrosted, althought the pigs were very happy. We have now started salting,bottling,and drying the food. More skills to learn.


    DOB Do you use solar or wind powered machines

    Thanks for the encouragement
    We did think of solar power but its far to expensive for us, the solar panels would be broke before they paid them selfs off. They need to be cheeper
    As for windpower we are in the biggist woodland in france so not much wind here plus the marie won't let us put one up.
    The best is a fast flowing river, its reliable and to harness the power is simple tec. We are thinking of bio gaz too.

    Hence we are on the move looking for a river and a windy spot, no kidding ;)
    and a place were there are less people and more wild animals, anyone want to buy our place?
     
  12. longshot

    longshot Need to contact Admin...

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    Earthpeace

    personally i really enjoy your posts on this thread and look forward to seeing you and your family doing it as close to the paleo as you can, and getting more in line with your personall physoliphy as you can. keep up the good job.

    bravo zulu :You_Rock_

    dean
     
  13. Jodie

    Jodie Native

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    What a fascinating thread :) I'm very glad you have the internet
    Earthpeace otherwise I might not hear about this!
     
  14. SowthEfrikan

    SowthEfrikan Tenderfoot

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    Thank goodness the we got beyond the stone, iron and bronze age and have the luxury of choosing to live primitively. :)
     
  15. bushman762

    bushman762 Forager

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    Hi Earthpeace,

    Like a few others on here, I would like to see some more pics if possible! Its a very interesting look into the past!

    Thanks

    :)
     
  16. mrostov

    mrostov Nomad

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    I like what Earthpeace and their family is doing over in France. I've seen a lot of people in the US and Canada moving into a similar lifestyle.

    Here in the US we have an interesting group of people called the Amish, and their community and the resource outlets that cater to them have been the source for many of the older style knowledge and equipment that otherwise would be hard to obtain.

    Many of you probably know about them. The Amish are a religious community of German speaking Swiss that immigrated into the USA in the 19th Century, and they have done their very best to try and remain in the 19th Century. They usually avoid using electricity, motorized vehicles, etc. They live a very horse and manual labor intensive, agricultural environment.

    The traditional Amish strongholds in the American states of Pennsylvania and Ohio are getting crowded and land there is getting urbanized and expensive. As Amish families grow, many have moved to other areas where they can live their lifestyle with more opportunity for land and growth, such as the states of Arizona and Missouri.

    For example, if you want to see how to build a house that is efficient without electricity but well built with materials from a modern lumber yard, you see how the Amish are doing it. If you want to buy a wood stove, of the style that you cook with, smart people see what the Amish use and maybe even buy one just like it.

    There is a company out of Ohio called Lehmans that serves as a major supply house for the Amish and their needs. Some of the stuff that they sell went off the market most other places in the western world a century ago.

    www.Lehmans.com

    You have to decide just how 'primitive' do you want to go. Many find that the furthest back that they can go and still operate in today's world is to transition back to where they have one foot in the 19th Century and one foot in the 21st - the 19th Century being the pinnacle of non-electric civilization

    Our ancestors in medieval Europe were pretty primitive by today's standards, and even primitive by 19th Century standards, yet they totally outclassed many of the aboriginal peoples, such as the North American natives who lifestyle had remained frozen in time since the last ice age.

    We live in a world awash with metal. Even in remote places of the US, like the High Sierras, I've found metal flotsam and jetsam in large quantities laying about. It sometimes feels like we're almost to the point that you have to kick man made metal debris out of the way to find a piece of flint for napping. There's so much glass laying around that some people practice knapping glass as a survival skill. One abandoned car, rusting out in the middle of nowhere, has enough metal to outfit an small Roman military unit or keep the entire Commanche nation in arrowheads and knives for a generation, and the number of autos built just in the USA in the last 100 years numbers in the hundreds of millions, not to mention other sources of metal, such as abandoned railroad track, old mining camps, etc.

    The North American Indians, for example, started large scale transitioning from stone tools to iron tools as fast as they could hundreds of years before the western frontier officially closed. Ordinary barrel hoops became plentiful enough that the Indians learned fast to convert them into iron arrowheads that were far superior to stone ones.

    I've seen photos of an iron age re-creation village in Britain where they practiced skills from millennia ago where they lives a lifestyle not too dissimilar from the American Indian except they wove cloth and smelted iron ore. They had a very primitive lifestyle by our standards, but it was not a stone age one since they had the use of iron tools and weapons.
     
  17. GenghisChris

    GenghisChris Guest

    just walking out into the forest not to return for 5 years is a dream of mine, of course in the society we live in it is totally impossible, My pension alone couldn't stand 5 years of no payments... l

    I like your Idea of doing it with no metal tools and only using the resorces available.. but I do feel it would be fine to drive to the coast to get a years supply of sea salt and such things.. but once in the forrest then thats it, no leaving.. ah what a perfect dream... maybe you would like to start a 'tribe' I'm sure some of our fellow board members would give up some of their time to help improve a neoneolithic settlement if they could have lodgings for their stay :p , maybe some would come for 6 months or longer, after all nothing could improve our skills more than actually living the neolithic way

    well I'm sure I wont give up this dream any time soon.. :eek:
     
  18. pierre girard

    pierre girard Need to contact Admin...

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    I'm sure it depends on the land you are talking about, but my great grandfather's family, when my grandfather was growing up (the last geneartion of hunter/gatherers in our family) ranged over about 100 miles (linear miles, not square miles) to hunt, fish, harvest wild rice, make sugar, and trap. Farming is not possible in that country.

    It seems I most often hear questions like this from "survivalists," city folks who've bought 40 acres up north and plan to retreat to the woods and "live off the land" as soon as someone drops the bomb or civilization goes to hell. My response is something along the lines of "If you can't live there now - what makes you think you'll be able to after a national disaster?"

    Unbelievably, I happen to know that my state's emergency evacuation plan (in case of nuclear attack, etc.) requires everyone from the cities to head for NE Minnesota (where I live). This is insane. How all these people will be fed and housed is a little unclear in the plan. They should better be sent to the western farming counties where they at least have enough grain storage facilities to feed them for a while.

    PG
     
  19. torjusg

    torjusg New Member

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    Wow, that is very little, it must be good country where you live. I doubt I we could survive as H/Gs in my area by only travelling 100miles annually.

    And I think those survivalists plan on not only using their own land after the crash. ;) We have quite a bit of land (around 2500 acres), but I doubt that we would be able to survive H/G style on our area (maybe though, if we ate fish 5 of 7 days). We would have to use other people's area too (most of them don't live there anymore) so unless they move back that shouldn't be a problem.
     
  20. Tadpole

    Tadpole Full Member

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    Hunting and gatherers followed the herds, so they didn’t have to worry about how much land they covered; they followed the animals up and down the land. If the worst came to the worst, the few that survived would have to do the same, land ownership would not (could not) come into it. For a nation of ‘hunter gathers’ to survive, they would all have to be hunter-gathers. As soon as some people settle down to farm the land, that would be when the conflicts would resume. Large groups of people following wild animals across farm land tends to upset the people who have spent six months looking after plants that are needed to last them until the next harvest is in.
     

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