Living primitive?

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Earthpeace

Tenderfoot
Sep 4, 2006
75
0
38
France
Is it possible in this modern day, to be totality ' self sufficient' ?
We ( I say we because we live together as a Clan , my mum & dad, two sisters and their two boy friends and my 3 year old niece)
We live a 'self sufficient life' growing are own veg,fruit and meat for the table. Mum and I make the family clothes hand spun & hand knitted from are animal fleeces and furs. The idea being to not make money but not to spend money. You ask your self do I really need this item? Can I not use somthing else, can I make it ?
But there always seems to be somthing you need but can not make.
So I ask the Q can you be totality self sufficient ? Like going into the wood and making a house, log cabin ( no caves around here) with no modern tools, and make tools from the land you're standing on and not getting the metal or flit from somwhere else ( no flit here either ). How much land would 6 + people need to hunt and forage? We have about 100 acres of wood and pature, and there is not enough wild animals to keep us in meat for the year because they are heavily hunted by the French. (we live in France)
Just to give you somthing to think about ,look around you in your house and think, if I was in the wild wood with no electric ect, mean's no tv ( we don't have one) computer ect the liste could go on for ever.
But this is what we are striving to do ( totality mad I know).
People think stone age primitve people as thick animals but I take my hat off to them, If they were here now they'd be the one's having a laugh, on how dependant on the modern world we have become.
Just thought I'd put this post on, to see what you people out there think to total sufficency. ;)
 

leon-b

Bushcrafter (boy, I've got a lot to say!)
May 31, 2006
3,390
22
Who knows
well if our primitive ancestors did it with out any electric, modern tools etc it must be possible
leon
 

British Red

M.A.B (Mad About Bushcraft)
Dec 30, 2005
26,709
1,947
Mercia
Hi Earthpeace. A laudable aim and an interesting experiment. My girlfriend and I like the idea of self supporting but not self sufficiency which, whilst perhaps possible, would mean, no metal tools (unless you mine the ore etc. yourself), no salt (unles you mine salt or extraxct mineral salt) no modern medicines (which mean the smallest infection could kill). Self supporting allows the concept of trading for such commodities but trying to be be self suffcient on food, fuel etc.

100 acres should be fine and even if game is scare, you can farm meat etc. Fence a few acres of woodland in and pigs will do very well for example

Good Luck

Red
 

Brian

Settler
Nov 6, 2003
609
1
52
Saltburn
Earthpeace,

I think its a great idea, good luck with it. Initially though would you need some sort of finance to get the land to live and work on, I can't see many land owners willing to barter for it. I think it would take a while to get it going but after that I think it is possible. As I said mate, good luck

Brian
 

torjusg

Native
Aug 10, 2005
1,246
21
41
Telemark, Norway
livingprimitively.com
Yes, it is possible, but you need to hide from civilization. The government, at least here, puts restrictions on you to make it impossible to live this way. Especially with children.

But living as a borderjumping (Apache-style) tribe, moving whenever you fear detection or run out of resources, should be possible. For all we know, some may be doing it... :)

Also, keep a few dogs (but keep them silent) as they are very useful for detecting people.

Torjus Gaaren
 

Ogri the trog

Mod
Mod
Apr 29, 2005
7,182
71
60
Mid Wales UK
Earthpeace,
It's great that you are striving toward self-sufficiency, indeed you are much further along the road than many other green advocates. The fact that you are "restricted" to your land means that you'll have to live within the means of each season - primative man would have had the luxury of moving with the migrating herds and going to warmer climes in the colder months etc.
The major stumbling block today would surely be the governments that feel they have to control their populaces every move, healthcare/pension plans/ social security etc etc etc.

Good luck in your chosen lifestyle, I really do hope that you find happiness.

Ogri the trog
 

Simon E

Nomad
Aug 18, 2006
275
14
53
3rd Planet from the sun
I would say that the only way to really live like this is to compromise a little. Get the tools you need, and take advantage of modern drugs and make a move to Northern Canada or Alaska. I mean just go and dont worry about paperwork and related BS.

As for primatives, I would think even very primative societies would have had a forte, they would have traded one thing for another, dont restrict yourselves unneccessarily by what you deem to be 'authentic'

I wish you the best of luck with it, I too have been hoarding specialist tools for this sort of life. Better to try and fail than spend your last moments on this earth wondering how it would have worked out. Look at Dick Preneke for some inspiration if you need any at all.

Also, I would suggest you find a place next to a large body of fresh water, fish will be a lot easier to get most of the year to keep you in protein and essential oils.
 

Snufkin

Bushcrafter (boy, I've got a lot to say!)
Oct 13, 2004
2,097
138
53
Norfolk
Stone age man had a few less problems to contend with. No governments telling them what to do, no social pressure on how to act and live ( I get wierd looks every time I tell people I don't have a TV :rolleyes: ), no land ownership and a vastly reduced population so less competition for resources.
Now you need money to buy enough land to support you (and that will be a considerable ammount) in a country with very liberal hunting laws where the social services aren't going to swoop in and take your children because they are running around in skins living in the woods.
I think it would be possible for an individual to dissapear into some areas of the world and live primitively but it would be much harder for groups or small communities as without financial growth the community could not expand.
 

ilan

Nomad
Feb 14, 2006
281
2
69
bromley kent uk
I think it would be very difficult to live in a true primitive way . Due to the fact you have Knowledge which primitive man did not have . However i think with a strong will and a great deal of sacrifice it would be possible to live in a low impact /low tecnological way You will need to trade with others , and also accept a more seasonal reliant diet with more emphasis on vegatables ect . I hope you enjoy what must be a unique experiance as for most people purchasing enough land to even attempt that sort of live style would be imposible .
 

moko

Forager
Apr 28, 2005
236
5
out there
It seems to me that your doing pretty good already there in France and I take my hat of to you. However, I reckon Simon E has got a point. To find any sense of true freedom in this world one has got to leave Europe behind and headout into the wilderness. Canada has thousands upon thousands of square miles of trackless wilderness with the same animal life as our native Europe just after the last ice age. One could learn alot from the Inuit and prehaps other less northernly tribes who have historically hunted and praticed basic farming in these areas. .....................with the irony of talking to you via the WWW aside, I wish you and your clan the very best of luck. Make this a reality and fulfill all our dreams.
 

ilan

Nomad
Feb 14, 2006
281
2
69
bromley kent uk
Re reading your original post , and to anser your question in a word no !! one piece of land would not contain all that you required .Primitive man seems to have engaged in trade from a very early period so one area would smelt iron/bronze as it was avalable localy whilst another would trade this with perhaps pots etc as it had the clay and skills etc to make them .
 

Earthpeace

Tenderfoot
Sep 4, 2006
75
0
38
France
Yes we agree with you moko & simon E. We have had long talks about moving the main reason is the fact that we are sitting down wind of a nuclear power station. It only takes some teacake in a airplane to fly into it and we are doomed.
As for Canada there is nuclear power there to and bad acid rain, mass logging ect.
I looked on a map of all the nuclear power station in the world, its frighting all the red dots that were stations turned nearly all of europe red, really the south hemisphere is safer it have only 4, 1 in africa + 3 in south america.
But nothing to stop them changing that.
As for land woodland cheep over here, we offen pay 300 euros a acre for storm damaged woodland. Although it is getting harder.
 

torjusg

Native
Aug 10, 2005
1,246
21
41
Telemark, Norway
livingprimitively.com
Remote parts of Siberia is probably the place to be. Lots of people live there to escape something or someone. You could probably do whatever you wanted if you moved there.

If you are rich, there could proably coax some natives into disappearing with you.

You get:
-A primitive lifestyle.
-Their local survival knowledge.

They get:
-An opportunity to isolate themselves and revive their old culture.
-Whatever they crave of earthly goods + money to bribe officials with.

Just a thought.... :)

Torjus Gaaren
 

Snufkin

Bushcrafter (boy, I've got a lot to say!)
Oct 13, 2004
2,097
138
53
Norfolk
Earthpeace said:
Yes we agree with you moko & simon E. We have had long talks about moving the main reason is the fact that we are sitting down wind of a nuclear power station. It only takes some teacake in a airplane to fly into it and we are doomed.
As for Canada there is nuclear power there to and bad acid rain, mass logging ect.
I looked on a map of all the nuclear power station in the world, its frighting all the red dots that were stations turned nearly all of europe red, really the south hemisphere is safer it have only 4, 1 in africa + 3 in south america.
But nothing to stop them changing that.
As for land woodland cheep over here, we offen pay 300 euros a acre for storm damaged woodland. Although it is getting harder.
There's New Zealand, an area the size of the UK with only 2 1/2 million people in it (OK you have to factor in 11 1/2 million gap year students but it's still alot of space). You can bowhunt, they have a nice layed back attitude to life and the landscape is simply stunning.
 

morch

Native
May 19, 2005
1,800
6
61
Darlington
A lot of respect to you and your family Earthpeace, i wish you all the success, health and happiness you wish for yourselves.

Dave
 

silvergirl

Nomad
Jan 25, 2006
379
0
Angus,Scotland
While I like the Idea of Siberia, Northern Canada etc. I do like being warm.

We stayed in the south Pacific for a couple of months and I was pleased to see how easy it was to live almost self sufficiently there.

Fish in the seas around, lots of different fruits and edible plants growing in the bush. Everyone kept pigs and chickens. Unforntunatly, depending on your point of veiw, civillisation is creeping to the most remote places. the sounds of night are being filled with people starting generators to watch TV (very bad picture). Medical treatments are better, which is good, but in many places not good enough. Incomers are not always welcome as they place pressure on a limited resource and ultimitly change the place.

I think your way of life is one many people would like to aspire to. At the moment the world is too crowded for it to be viable to more than a few.
 

Earthpeace

Tenderfoot
Sep 4, 2006
75
0
38
France
Yes we thought New Zealand in have to agree with silvergirl I do like being warm.
That is the problem all the self-sufficient/ primitive people are either in deserts or at the poles, probably because nobody wants the land. As if they were on a nice green piece of land mego farmers and big land owner make there likes hell until they leave and move some were else were they won't get harassed.
As for getting local survival knowledge (torjusg ) I have to say a big thanks to all the locals here they have been a great help. I remember are neighbour coming to are house one day she said they were killing a pig at the weekend. We asked if we could come along and watch, Of course you can' she said with a luck of strange english on her face.
We went there at the week end, a few of the local people were there to help ( but spent most of the time talking and getting in the way) . We watched two pigs been done start to finish the proper french way. We helped and learned how to make the black pudding, cooking it the soup that was for tonights meal. Making head pate ( same as you get in pork pies) and sausages, pate of the liver mixed with meat, pate of the bones all the boiled up, melting down the fat, making the pate from the meat sieved out of the fat, then cutting up the meat and salting the hind legs. The only thing that was left on the pigs was a pile of meat free bone which the dogs ate. True survival people no waste here. We sat down with the local after all the hard work was done to eat black pudding which was fished out of the soup, the soup, and mashed potatoes with of course the home made wine out of the barrel.
This same lady we helped her do duck,geese and chickens , same here, they eat feet, neck, blood, head ,tongue,liver, gizzers the list go's on.
An arab friend showed us how to do sheep ( we renamed him Zoro because he was so quick and clean).
I could go on all night....But the sad thing is that they are all old people with these skills, the last that know because the younger one's are not interessed in making there own food, they go down to Mac D in stead. I think thats way the old ones are so happy to show us because we want to learn and respect them and there knowledge as precious.

I thick i will have too stop writing now you've probably all fallen asleep by now.
 

British Red

M.A.B (Mad About Bushcraft)
Dec 30, 2005
26,709
1,947
Mercia
Not asleep ata ll Earthpeace - keep writing - we are really interested - best posts I've read in a long time!

Red
 

bushman762

Forager
May 19, 2005
161
0
63
N.Ireland
Hi Earthpeace,

Hats off to you and your family...we have looked in France for our wee place but haven't found it yet!

In todays age it is going to be a compromise, one that I think your clan has made very well. I too like the good weather, makes for a much easier time out of doors!

Keep on gleaning knowledge and experience from your elderly neighbours, as it will fall on you to pass this valulable knowlesge on in the future.

I for one would love to see many more pics of you and your animals at work, and bringing to life many of the old tools used in forestry etc..

Great post and very interesting, thanks!

:)
 

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