Help/advice. LEZ penalty charge.

[Quixoticgeek]

Ignorantia juris non excusat (ignorance of the law is not a lawful defence).

I think I would be more acceptable to hold a populace to the whole ignorance is no excuse argument, if the politicians weren't creating laws so damn fast, and our media wasn't making such a complete hash of the communicating the actions of parliament.

Under the labour government (not knocking them specifically but I don't have stats for the current scum), they introduced an average of 1 new offence every day. The media hasn't exactly been making a weekly listing of all the new offences we have to be aware of have they? Section 13 of the terrorism act 2003 always made me worry that it was open to abuse... the 1980 bee act has always made me concerned for the rights it give bee keepers in terms of access to my hovercraft (full of eels or not)...

And as a group that spend a lot of time in the woods, I'm guessing we could all be found guilty of an offence under Grey Squirrels (Prohibition of Importation and Keeping) Order of 1937 (now repealed)...

People are more likely to be able to rattle off a list of what they think are laws imposed by Brussels that are in fact wrong (straight bananas and acrobats wearing hard hats for example), than they are to know actual laws that have been passed by Her Majesty's Government...

And anyone who thinks that repealing the human rights act is the answer, remember, the 1689 bill of rights has been entirely repealed with the exception of the introduction... That includes your right to bear arms which was revoked by the Police and Fire arms act 1921...

But we digress. Congrats to the OP on your successful appeal, and for waking a lot of people upto what the LEZ is.

J

 

[dewi]

To quote the late George Carlin, a right is not a right if it can be taken away. A right that can be taken away is a privilege, not a right. We have no rights, we have privileges.

 

[woodstock]

To quote the late George Carlin, a right is not a right if it can be taken away. A right that can be taken away is a privilege, not a right. We have no rights, we have privileges.

and that sir is a powerful statement....

 

[dewi]

Thankfully George was always going to be more than a comedian, but he kept his sense of humour

 

[NikDarkwood]

Im a bit late catching up with this thread and I admit to not having read every post. As a bushcrafter I'm a bit concerned at the level of hostillity towards the LEZ.
Its pretty obvious why we've got it. It is relevant to Bushcraft. And it will inevitabbly get applied elsewhere.
Ive noticed an odd reluctance on the part of many Bushcrafters to except concepts like sustainabillity, global warming etc.
Its December now and Ive just watched a butterfly landing on the back of one of the tortoises still grazing and sunbathing in my garden. There is no way thats 'normal' for the UK.
I dont give a **** wether this is 'normal seasonal variation', fat blokes in 4x4s or children working in coal powered factorie in China.
I do know it cost a lot of money in infrastructure costs, A HELL of a lot of money, and someone has to pay. Thatll be us.

 

[crosslandkelly]

If you believe the LEZ is anything other than a money making scheme, you are sadly mistaken my friend.

 

[dewi]

Im a bit late catching up with this thread and I admit to not having read every post. As a bushcrafter I'm a bit concerned at the level of hostillity towards the LEZ.
Its pretty obvious why we've got it. It is relevant to Bushcraft. And it will inevitabbly get applied elsewhere.
Ive noticed an odd reluctance on the part of many Bushcrafters to except concepts like sustainabillity, global warming etc.
Its December now and Ive just watched a butterfly landing on the back of one of the tortoises still grazing and sunbathing in my garden. There is no way thats 'normal' for the UK.
I dont give a **** wether this is 'normal seasonal variation', fat blokes in 4x4s or children working in coal powered factorie in China.
I do know it cost a lot of money in infrastructure costs, A HELL of a lot of money, and someone has to pay. Thatll be us.

You've lost me? The LEZ is relevant to bushcrafting?

Sorry, but unless you buy into the link between the flawed CO2 modelling used by a diminishing group of scientists who treat it like some sort of religious relic, the LEZ is nothing more than a traffic calming measure to control the flow of traffic in one of the busiest cities in the UK. The punitive penalties dished out to those unaware of the latest gimmick employed by authorities who pretend to have any interest in the environment are a joke and I disagree it will be applied elsewhere. Manchester, Birmingham and Bristol have already rejected it, along with the other fantasy suggestions.

If anyone was serious about the environment, there would be a much greater campaign effort on littering. Coastal defences, a cheap way to stop the land eroding around out coastlines, would be a priority. The natural benefits of siting windmills offshore would mean that the often dangerous and noisy onland windmills would be abandoned and our countryside not blighted by the sight of them. I could go on, but you get the idea.

As for 'fat blokes in 4x4s'... prejudice much? I'm a fat bloke with a 4x4... your point was what? You read a bit of a consensus-based pseudo science article in the Guardian, and now anyone who doesn't drive a plastic box with an engine made of barley wheat is as bad as child labour in China?

Those butterflies and tortoises in the garden, spot of sunbathing? Been hearing the same strawman argument for the past decade and a half. Let me guess, you actually believe the desertification in China is directly connected to the number of petrol-guzzling cars on the road?

So LEZ and bushcrafting. Not today thanks, I'm too busy making baby seal traps from the mountain of plastic bags I've been daubing with processed cheese and exhaust fumes

 

[Imagedude]

The LEZ was implemented at the request of a lobby group that supports the expansion of Heathrow. The idea is that a reduction in pollution from road traffic would allow H'row to increase its polution levels whilst keeping the total pollution in London at pre-expansion levels. I'm a great believer in reducing pollution but the G'ment needs to use the carrot, not the stick.

 

[Dave]

Well done Malley!

I agree on the comments if you dare question stuff, they will come down on you even harder.......:tapedshut

The old 'bully boy' tactics.

If caught , speeding, I think they also offer you reduced points, but not a reduced fine if you go along to a seminar on how to drive.
Run by a an off duty copper. Jobs for the boys. If you have a legitimate gripe and ask a question, they will come done on you like a ton of bricks. Make an example of you.

 

[dewi]

I'm a great believer in reducing pollution but the G'ment needs to use the carrot, not the stick.

100% agree.

Tackle actual environmental problems rather than flawed computer models of a possible future if you double this, ignore that.... and give people a reason to be concerned about the environment rather than the fear tactic that we'll all be 3 foot under water in 25 years.

And on the subject of sorting environmentals... can we not start some sort of campaign to get proper flood defences for the people of Carlisle? What is happening there is beyond what is reasonable... great the government have thrown 50 million in the pot now... but why not do that 12 months ago to make sure it didn't happen? At least then the people wouldn't be swimming from their kitchens to their lounges right now!

 

[drliamski]

Thing is the lez hasn't improved air quality or congestion in London. Just injected a load of cash back into the automobile industry??

Sent from my Xperia Z using Tapatalk

 

[GGTBod]

it's like one of them kids stories where the wee country mouse gets proper stitched up when he visits his cousin the big city mouse, i hate London the place smells like a dogs farts after you feed him tripe

 

[dewi]

it's like one of them kids stories where the wee country mouse gets proper stitched up when he visits his cousin the big city mouse, i hate London the place smells like a dogs farts after you feed him tripe

Glad I'm not the only one who dislikes the place... I have to travel there every once in a while and although I'm fully aware there are nice people there somewhere, my biggest problem down there is the lack of manners when I wander about. For supposedly this great city of culture and history, somebody needs to tell the majority there that its okay to say hello, its okay to make eye contact and that a bit of consideration for their fellow man wouldn't go amiss.

Not knocking Londoners... I have mates who live there and they are nice people... but get them out in the city, they're as rude as the rest. The attitude being you have to be rude and brash to manage in the city.. well no... I'm polite, friendly and courteous when I'm down there and I'm still about.

Oh and for the group of prats down there last July who thought it was a good idea to surround an old bloke in a Jag to 'protest' the presence of his car in the city.... would that group have behaved that way if their own grandfather was driving? Doubt it! I pointed this out to them at the time, but they were too busy being abusive to listen to logic and reason.

 

[GGTBod]

Last time i was in that London i was wandering through Leicester Square and a Big Issue Seller touted his wares "Big Issue?" I acknowledged his existence and politely said "No thanks" and he gave me a look that said freak stranger danger

 

[Dave]

I think most Londoners walk around thinking sh**! Whats happened to London!!

The culture spots are the nice bits. I like South Kensington. The museum districts. [You can park there just outside the LEZ]
But the wealth of the local billionaires is completely obscene.

You meet their eyes and its like they come from a different planet.

I once walked the length of the tube I was on, asking each passenger for directions, and not one person spoke english. The last guy i asked looked at me scared and started producing his papers!

Other times, you could not meet a better bunch of helpful happy people.

 

[dewi]

Last time i was in that London i was wandering through Leicester Square and a Big Issue Seller touted his wares "Big Issue?" I acknowledged his existence and politely said "No thanks" and he gave me a look that said freak stranger danger

Lol... yep... so you can imagine the shock on the face of a homeless lad when I took for lunch He was a nice chap and went to London with the goal to make a better life... didn't go to plan... but he was good company and probably the most real person I interacted with in the entire city.

Not surprising with experiences that we've had that we prefer disappearing into the woods eh?

 

[dewi]

I think most Londoners walk around thinking sh**! Whats happened to London!!

The culture spots are the nice bits. I like South Kensington. The museum districts. [You can park there just outside the LEZ]
But the wealth of the local billionaires there is completely obscene.

You meet their eyes and its like they come from a different planet.

The norths just better......[sorry Londoners....]

And they don't like it when you enter the cigar shop and ask whether the smoking ban applies

 

[Caerleon]

The more I read on this forum the more I realise I'm not alone! - thanks for bringing a little sanity into my world :You_Rock_

 

[mrcharly]

t unless you buy into the link between the flawed CO2 modelling used by a diminishing group of scientists who treat it like some sort of religious relic,

My fact checking suggests you are wrong. It isn't a diminishing number of scientists. It was and remains the overwhelming majority of scientists who believe that increases in levels of CO2 and Methane are responsible for changes to global climate.

 

[dewi]

My fact checking suggests you are wrong. It isn't a diminishing number of scientists. It was and remains the overwhelming majority of scientists who believe that increases in levels of CO2 and Methane are responsible for changes to global climate.

You might want to check it again.