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Gory pics warning

Discussion in 'Fair Game' started by tommy the cat, Mar 23, 2015.

  1. tommy the cat

    tommy the cat Bushcrafter (boy, I've got a lot to say!)

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    Found this girl today
    [​IMG]
    Anyone seen this before??
    [​IMG]
    Is that a bullet wood hind quater? ??
    [​IMG]
    I put a trail cam on her to see what turns up.
    D
     
  2. Joonsy

    Joonsy Native

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    I would guess road casualty, it may have been hit by a vehicle and wandered off if it’s legs were not broken, when it got to the ditch it may have been too hurt and weak to clamber up the ditch bank and died there. I don’t think those injuries are caused by rifle or shotgun they don’t look right for that, and I don’t think they are caused by dogs either, I have dealt with a number deer involved in road accidents and dog attacks and shot deer and that deer’s injuries don’t look consistent with shooting or dog attack. I don’t know how far off the road it was but they can travel a considerable distance before dying if legs are not broken, so I wouldn’t dismiss road casualty if it was well off the road. Also if it was killed deliberately by someone by whatever method it is unlikely it would have been left in water, it would have been dragged out of the water at the very least (unless the deer was not found after killing it of course). It is normal practice to gralloch/gut a deer immediately after killing it as well and it has not been gutted either. Of course it could have been shot and injured and wandered off and died without being found by the perpetrator but the injuries don’t look right for shooting (incidentally a shot deer can run 100 yards or so before it drops to the ground dead, only a neck shot will drop a deer to the ground exactly where it stands, 100 yards is a long way in thick woodland and the deer can run and drop dead and is then very hard to find without a good dog). The other possibility is an unintentional dog attack by walkers with dogs out of control, in such an attack the owners of the dogs may not have actually found the deer but if they did find it then they would probably make no attempt to move it and leave it exactly where it was, just like in the photo. Judging by the deers eye in pic I’d say it’s been dead a few days, the eyes looks sunk and not fresh, therefore I suppose it’s possible the head injury may actually be through another animal chewing at it. My guess though is it’s a road casualty. One thing for sure I imagine your trail cam will catch some interesting pics of other animals coming for a free meal.
     
  3. tommy the cat

    tommy the cat Bushcrafter (boy, I've got a lot to say!)

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    Thanks for that detailed reply.
    It's probably 500yards from a very very quiet road. Without help I'd have struggled to move it but it's not in a used water source so I guess it will speed up the rotting process.
    Your right about the eyes sunk and cloudy though little or no smell of it.
    There is professional culling going on in the area as well as I'm sure poaching. Was more curious about the loss of ears really??
     
  4. Countryman

    Countryman Full Member

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    It's a Fallow. I would say the ears are gone to a scavenger.

    Can't see enough of picture 3 to see if that's an exit wound but cannot see an obvious entry wound.

    Pretty much go along with Joonsy.




    Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
     
  5. Robson Valley

    Robson Valley Full Member

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    Entry wounds from a .30-'06 x 165gr should be less than pencil-sized. Trust me = they still try to get way with broken legs.
    Dead from other misfortune, it's possible that scavengers find the ears most easily gnawed off, seeing as how the soft belly & crotch area is in the water.
    In the Road Kill Cafe' that's known on the menu as "Smear of Deer."
     
  6. tommy the cat

    tommy the cat Bushcrafter (boy, I've got a lot to say!)

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    Thanks again really good info
     
  7. Joonsy

    Joonsy Native

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    I can't think of any animal in the uk that will remove and carry off the ear of a deer when other parts of the animal are readily available to eat first (though cats will chew ears) which points further to a road casualty, the ears could easily have been removed in a collision with a vehicle along with a portion of skin though. Regarding the visible injuries in photo, if shot by a poacher it would most likely be with a 22, it would be very difficult to see a 22 entry hole on a deer it would be so small, even with close examination it would be quite hard to find the hole. If a dog attack there would be lots of deer hair spread all around the area, and dog footprints in the mud, fallow deer put up a terrific struggle against dogs and the signs would have been quite evident, to kill they would have to have had a throat hold and it’s common to find puncture wounds in the throat area on the underside of the neck, the wounds in pic seem to be on the top of the neck/head which is an unusual place for dog bites to be. Typically dogs do a lot of damage particularly to the deers hind quarters and to the underside of neck and you would most likely have found chewed hind quarters and neck if a dog attack. That wound on it’s hind quarters doesn't look like a bullet hole but if it is it would mean it’s a larger calibre than the poachers weapon of choice, a 22, so it would most likely be someone with permission or a farmer, if it was a stalker it was an incredibly poor shot, only heart or necks shots are taken, it doesn't look like a bullet wound to me though. Yes they are heavy to move, does are usually somewhere 70-100 pounds but can be bigger.
     
  8. Joonsy

    Joonsy Native

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    yes they certainly do, i have come across a couple of fallow with one leg missing while in otherwise reasonable health, sometimes when jumping wire fences they can get a leg trapped (barbed wire is terrible for this as the barbs lock two strands together), they often die but some seem to struggle free and if the leg is lost somehow they seem to heal and manage to live okay.
     
  9. Dougster

    Dougster Full Member

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    Poachers around here tend to use .22 centrefire rifles and dogs - which makes my blood boil.

    It is starting to look like a car, the hind wound is a low to the ground carrion eater I would have thought, disturbed as it got underway.

    All hypothesis, we'll probably never know.
     
  10. Robson Valley

    Robson Valley Full Member

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    I came across a young mule deer doe with the left front corner of my Suburban at 60mph, that's how I know. The one dang day I was travelling without a single gun.
    Fortunately, the next guy up the Goat River hill stopped, shot it and . . . . . . . . . it was conserved.
     
  11. mrostov

    mrostov Nomad

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    The US loses about 100,000 deer per year due to accidents with vehicles. All too often, the various deer species over here have an unnerving habit of going through your windshield when you hit them. I did see a red Toyota pickup that hit an elk once in Arizona. The elk flipped up and landed on the roof of the cab right in the center. The center of the cab was touching the dash like it had been karate chopped by a giant. Up north, there are numerous cases of moose going through car windshields.
     
  12. Robson Valley

    Robson Valley Full Member

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    Honda sedan, 4 people, in front of me not far west of Slim Creek. Momma moose stepped up from the LH ditch and was in front of them before they could react.
    The rice-burner car submarined under the moose. Her butt came through the middle of the windshield. The speed of impact flipped the moose into the air above the car in a cartwheel,
    she landed in the RH ditch. Everybody in the car physically OK, I patched up a bunch of glass cuts. Momma moose (end of June, leaking milk all over) busted up in the ditch.
    I had to move on. Dispatch moose. Calf = wolf lunch. Car#2 of family close behind for car#1 wreckage.
    All you need to know is that full-grown moose are the size of horses. Not little deer, not that those can't spoil you week in a collision.
     
  13. Countryman

    Countryman Full Member

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    Usually there is some sign even from a pencil sized entry hole. Yes it would be a shocking shot. I was thinking perhaps a stab at the engine room on a quartered animal but really you can't see if that is an exit wound.
    Many a story of injured Deer doing incredible things from back when I was a professional stalker but best told round a campfire.


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  14. tommy the cat

    tommy the cat Bushcrafter (boy, I've got a lot to say!)

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    Once again I am overwhelmed with great information.
    Due to its location and the fact I'm on my own (and weigh about the same as wet rabbit ) I wasn't going to try to move her...so its all speculation and will remain so. I will however put up the videos of what comes to feed o her if not too gruesome.
    Once again thanks for the comments d
     
  15. Robson Valley

    Robson Valley Full Member

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    Well, just reflect on every creature's attempt to survive.
    Roadkill is a windfall resource of immense value. Might be a plan to inspect the site once a month.
    Ultimately, the bones may scatter, hunks and chunks dragged away. When you see little sets of pairs of scratches
    in the bone = rodents wearing down their ever growing incisors and getting a welcome feed of high quality mineral nutrient at the same time.

    While I hope the recovery is complete, one of two snowmobile riders was not located on Saturday. The other body was on the surface of the avalanche run-out.
    The urgency is to find #2 before the wolves, coyotes and bears find him first.
     
  16. mrostov

    mrostov Nomad

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    Too bad that little deer is probably a tad ripe and smelly. Even if one does not salvage the meat, the long sinew of the backstrap tendon on a deer is valuable bushcraft material. That tendon is generally salvageable long after the meat isn't.
     
  17. Countryman

    Countryman Full Member

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    With venison particularly you will find that if an animal dies in stress the meat does not set properly. It doesn't become firm like the family joint that we all know and love.

    The other issue is that if not gralloched (gutted) fairly soon after death the meat develops a taint to it.

    If the gut is ruptured in a car accident, fall or bullet strike the contents contaminate the carcass readily and bacteria thrive in the warm sticky mess and can make it seriously dangerous to eat.

    If you were in a survival situation I would stew it up - a lot.

    The other thing that I would avoid generally is washing meat. Blood is sterile. Meat covered in hide is well protected. Skinning with clean hands is likely to risk far less contamination than washing the meat in a local water source.

    Hope this is useful
     
  18. santaman2000

    santaman2000 M.A.B (Mad About Bushcraft)

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    Excerpt from the CDC's website (bold emphasis mine):

    "A zoonotic disease is a disease that can be passed between animals and humans. Zoonotic diseases can be caused by viruses, bacteria, parasites, and fungi. These diseases are very common. Scientists estimate that more than 6 out of every 10 infectious diseases in humans are spread from animals.
    Many people interact with animals in their daily lives. We raise animals for food and keep them in our homes as pets. We might come into close contact with animals at a county fair or petting zoo or encounter wildlife when we clear wooded land for new construction.
    Because of these interactions, it’s important to be aware of the different ways people can get zoonotic diseases. These can include:

    • Coming into contact with the saliva, blood, urine, or feces of an infected animal
    • Being bitten by a tick or mosquito (often called a “vector”)
    • Eating or drinking something unsafe (such as unpasteurized milk, undercooked meat, or unwashed fruits and vegetables that are contaminated with feces from an infected animal)"



    Here's a link to the full page on zoonotic diseases www.cdc.gov/onehealth/zoonotic-diseases.htmlCached
     
    #18 santaman2000, Mar 25, 2015
    Last edited: Mar 25, 2015
  19. Countryman

    Countryman Full Member

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    Santaman I have Gralloched more deer, paunched more rabbits and dressed more game birds than I can begin to tell you. I hold a large animal meat hygiene certificate too which certify's me to put wild game into the human food chain.

    Wear the nitrile gloves if you have them but I have no ill effects from not having done so for decades.

    Moo-tic,tic


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  20. santaman2000

    santaman2000 M.A.B (Mad About Bushcraft)

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    Same here (except I don't have a butcher's license) also with no ill effects so far. But that still doesn't mean "blood is sterile." Never has been, never will be.

    I completely agree with the rest of your post though.
     
    #20 santaman2000, Mar 25, 2015
    Last edited: Mar 25, 2015

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