First Aid?

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Paganwolf

Bushcrafter (boy, I've got a lot to say!)
Jul 26, 2004
2,330
2
53
Essex, Uk
www.WoodlifeTrails.com
I've been on a Wilderness First Aid course this weekend run by Geoff and Hannah of Natural Pathways, I've done first aid when i was in the ACF and through work and it was great to refresh myself and regain my first aid ticket, It made me wonder though how many bushcrafty type people actually are trained and knew First aid? As we are surrounded on our forays with sharp things, heavy things and hot things it should really be apart of our fundamental knowledge not just for our own sakes but for out partners and friends sakes. Just out of interest who out there knows and is trained in First Aid and who would know what to do in the case of an emergency, or have you been in a situation where yourself or another needed first aid? :?:
 

tenbears10

Native
Oct 31, 2003
1,220
0
xxxx
I've had quite a few different first aid courses and the main thing that worries me is every time you do one it seems to have changed. It can be useful to get a new view point but when the information directly conflicts it is difficult to know which to go with.

I've never had to use it in anger so to speak but first aid training is a bit like insurance in that sense, we all have it but hope we never have to use it.

Bill
 

Adi007

Bushcrafter (boy, I've got a lot to say!)
Sep 3, 2003
4,080
0
tenbears10 said:
I've had quite a few different first aid courses and the main thing that worries me is every time you do one it seems to have changed. It can be useful to get a new view point but when the information directly conflicts it is difficult to know which to go with.

That's what I found too ... nuff said!
 

Neil1

Full Member
Oct 4, 2003
1,317
63
Sittingbourne, Kent
I've always kept my ticket up to date. My job has most of the hazards you mentioned (hot things, sharp things, flaring tempers ect :roll: ). I was a Cadet Forces Adventurous Trainig Officer for eight years too, excellent job for getting to deal with almost every imaginable first aid incedent, from broken limbs to mass chemical poisoning.
I think everyone should have to attend a course every three years by law ( and cycle to work one day per month :naughty: ), I think it is selfish not to have had some first aid training, I'm not that public spirited, I just want to make sure theres plenty of people with training around whenI NEED IT!
Neil
 

Neil1

Full Member
Oct 4, 2003
1,317
63
Sittingbourne, Kent
Adi007 said:
That's what I found too ... nuff said!

Things change frighteningly fast - which is why people need to do regular courses.
Most of it is common sense at the end of the day and besides if the casualty is on the brink of death, he won't be worrying about the fact that your technique is not bang up to date.
Neil
 

Paganwolf

Bushcrafter (boy, I've got a lot to say!)
Jul 26, 2004
2,330
2
53
Essex, Uk
www.WoodlifeTrails.com
Neil1 said:
I've always kept my ticket up to date. My job has most of the hazards you mentioned (hot things, sharp things, flaring tempers ect :roll: ). I was a Cadet Forces Adventurous Trainig Officer for eight years too, excellent job for getting to deal with almost every imaginable first aid incedent, from broken limbs to mass chemical poisoning.
I think everyone should have to attend a course every three years by law ( and cycle to work one day per month :naughty: ), I think it is selfish not to have had some first aid training, I'm not that public spirited, I just want to make sure theres plenty of people with training around whenI NEED IT!
Neil

:rolmao: yes i make you right, the guy who we had teaching us this weekend was part of a search and rescue team and also did cave rescue so it was good relevant stuff. not too much class room type stuff and plenty of good scenarios pretty good balance.
 

RovingArcher

Need to contact Admin...
Jun 27, 2004
1,069
1
Monterey Peninsula, Ca., USA
My sweet wife keeps her EMT-1A certificate up to date and she puts me through briefings and practice sessions so that I keep my skills well oiled. Although, most of my knowledge is based on the basics of first aid and CPR.
 

Carcajou Garou

On a new journey
Jun 7, 2004
551
5
Canada
Through my work we keep up first aid trainning and since I know the guys giving the course I usualy get to start the volonteers out, really has come in handy in numerous road accident that we come upon and other accidents in the bush. Right you are they should be mandatory from a work stand point but I don't know about the general public, most do not want to become involved until something happens to them. First aid has saved my own son's life that's the best feeling to have giving life twice :eek:):
just a thought
 

leon-1

Full Member
I have had a fair amount of medical training, a few people have mentioned that some of the techniques change on a regular basis, but in the end the basics remain the same.

A lot of times when things do happen things cannot always be practiced as per the book anyway and it will be the first aider improvising but keeping the basic principles of first aid along with techniques taught in mind that will be of major benefit.
 

Gary

Bushcrafter (boy, I've got a lot to say!)
Apr 17, 2003
2,603
2
57
from Essex
You can never get enough first aid training. However sods law says the time you need treating the guy who finds you wont be trained! :?:
 

Buckshot

Mod
Mod
Jan 19, 2004
6,466
347
Oxford
I'm first aid at work trained, had to use it when someone tripped over some wood. :shock: They weren't badly hurt, cuts and bruises - and shock
Don't forget the job of a first aider is to keep the patient alive until the paramedics arrive. It doesn't matter if you haven't dotted every i and crossed every t, just make it so the paramedics have something to work on when they get there.

I agree though, it's just being responsible.

Cheers

Mark
 

tenbears10

Native
Oct 31, 2003
1,220
0
xxxx
I'm not refering to small differences in technique but to the fact that I have been tought (on respected courses) several different combinations of chest compression and breaths for cpr. Now as has been said if you remember one method and it works then who cares.

The most worrying is that another course (the most recent) did not teach cpr because new theory was that a person could not be revived in all but a tiny minority of cases.

Bill
 

ripley

Member
Sep 2, 2004
19
0
Switzerland
tenbears10 said:
The most worrying is that another course (the most recent) did not teach cpr because new theory was that a person could not be revived in all but a tiny minority of cases.

Bill

It is true that is very rare that a person get's revived with cpr, but the goal is to provide crucial organs with oxygen and keep him that way alive till professional rescue arrives. I think cpr SHOULD be learned by everyone.
Once the heart stops beating you only have about 3 minutes and there is no way that professinal help can be there in such a short time. This is a crucial timespan were lives can only be saved by bystanders who know cpr, meaning you and me.
(I'm a first aid worker in my freetime)
 

jamesdevine

Settler
Dec 22, 2003
823
0
48
Skerries, Co. Dublin
Yep First aider too. I have to be with both the scouts and work and in both cases it came free so valuable skills to good to pass up. Here as I am sure in the UK and other European countries there is a mandatory requirement to have qualified First Aider on at the work place. There should be one in every Home to. As well as manitor Fire blankets and extigushers.

I would love to do a more out door based first aid course and I hope to that next year via the Scouts.


James
 

Bushmaster

Forager
Oct 17, 2004
115
0
60
Scotland
This is a toughie.I am first aid trained and have been trained up to a high standard in the mountain rescue team. I have loved first aid for years dunno why I just have.Every first aider I speak to has never, or hardly ever used it.
But me..........................In the last two months ( just as an example )
I have been involved with two major incidents.The first was a massive RTA with two people trapped in a car, the female was concious and shouting but the male was not.I had to lean in via the back window to open the males airway as he was not breathing.This simple act kept him alive .Then the air ambulance tuned up and I assisted the paramedic from there on in.Tjhis is no bull by the way.
Three days ago a man crossed the road about six cars in front of me and boom!!!:yikes: He went six feet in the air.I pulled over to the road side and administered first aid to thre guy untill the ambulance arrived.
These are just two rescent incidents I have had loads more. The point I am making is coming up.I was sitting pondering the events with a friend and I asked the question, "what would you have done". "Nothing" he said "I can not cope with that stuff"
"Thats why people like you are put on the earth" That blew me away and after reading the thread on guardian angels I have some real thinking to do.
:) Any one care to comment?
Geoff:wink:
 

ripley

Member
Sep 2, 2004
19
0
Switzerland
As you know the only needed thing in a first aid kit is bandages to stop heavy bleeding (and you could still improvise with t-shirt or other clothing if needed). A breathing mask would come in handy too for mouth to mouth breathing (highly recommanded these days...) or you also have these kind of tissues to put over the victim's mouth and nose (only to be used once :eek:): ). Everything beside that we call luxury, but when you're out in the bush professional help might not come so quick :shock: so you probably need a few extra's which wouldn't be called luxury in such a case.
Let's say it would take a few days before you could get further help.
What would be these extra's?

-Something to desinfect wounds.
-Something to close a big wound.
-Rope to use with improvised materials to fix a broken limb.
-A shemag is very usefull for several things...
-...

More ideas?

To bushmaster:
It does help if you are trained. It makes you more confident and even people who say they can't cope with such a thing "might" act in a different way if they had some training. I say "might" because it's true that not everone can deal with such things.
 

maddave

Full Member
Jan 2, 2004
4,177
39
Manchester UK
I was a trained combat medic in the mob and later kept my ticket up to date when I was a lifeguard and later a countryside ranger. Since being in IT I have let it lapse (for about 5 years now) but am still confident in my ability to administer 1st aid should the need arise. 1st aid is mostly common sense and as others have said in the thread, techniques come in and out of 'fashion' with alarming regularity..... Usually when a new chief medical officer is appointed. CPR for example can be anything ... 15 compressions to 2 breaths, 5 to one, 20 to three. Starts to look like a bookies board at the races. The main thing, like bushcraft is to train up and be confident in your abilities. To save the life of another is one of the most profound and rewarding things you could ever do. :super:
 

Bushmaster

Forager
Oct 17, 2004
115
0
60
Scotland
Thanks Ripley,I do agree that training is the key to confidence.I personally feel that first aid should be taught in schools as part of the national curriculum. That way we have a country of "doers not viewers" as you get at most incidents.You know the stand and stare mob!!

Geoff
 
G

Ginja

Guest
maddave said:
CPR for example can be anything ... 15 compressions to 2 breaths, 5 to one, 20 to three. Starts to look like a bookies board at the races.

A bookies board .. that made me laugh! :rolmao: Very true (the current thinking is 15:2 - at least it was 6 months ago).

Yes, I am a trained first aider - originally for the purpose of working as a martial arts instructor (mainly dislocated fingers, mild concussion and such like!), though more recently I've been training with St John's for health and safety purposes at work. Definitely something I would recommend, and I wholly agree with comments made here that everyone should have some basic first aid knowledge - the idea of teaching it in schools (possibly as part of PE classes?) is spot on.

That said, I know a couple of mountain rescue people (based in The Peaks) who agree that successful CPR is virtually impossible 'off the beaten track' - it's never once been successful for either of my friends, put it that way.

However, first aid up a hill, on a mountainside or in the great outdoors in general is obviously VERY different to first aid at work, or on the street. The resources are different, the weather plays merry hell, the emergency services are likely to be miles away (literally), and as a consequence of all this, you're likely to be much more panicked by the situation. Certainly not something to learn about 'on the fly' ...

Funnily enough, I'm actually (over)due to sign up for a mounatin first aid course at Plas Y Brenin (Snowdonia) - I've had this particular course highly recommended by a number of friends, as apparently it's one of the best in the UK - thought I'd mention this in case anyone else is interested.

PS: not sure if this is scare-mongering, but I've been warned there's a notorious part of the mountain first aid course that involves the use of hypodermic needles - make sense, unless you're particularly squeemish!

PPS: I would also recommend St John Ambulance for up-to-date first aid training.

G
 

ripley

Member
Sep 2, 2004
19
0
Switzerland
Yep, today its 15:2, and for good reasons. I don't think that's gonna change soon.

Ginja said:
That said, I know a couple of mountain rescue people (based in The Peaks) who agree that successful CPR is virtually impossible 'off the beaten track' - it's never once been successful for either of my friends, put it that way.

I can understand if you have to CPR a person 'off the beaten track' and it's gonna take hours before rescue can come... your chances do get very very slim.
 

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