Dogs - who owns what and how did you choose it?

[Janne]

Did you guys see that tv series where people get a dog abd the tv followes them?

Of the participants, one was a responsible owner. I felt sorry for all the other dogs, including the dog that was bought as a therapy dog.

 

[santaman2000]

Of course there are variations within any breed (more on that later) No, I wasn't kidding when I said Boxers. My own Boxer was the nanny for my grandson when he was 4 years old. My daughter had just regained custody (after a custody suit with her mother) and in the move to a new living situation that young he was afraid to be alone in any room of the house. Dinah (my Boxer) had to follow him to the bathroom and sit near him whenever he went to the toilet or bathed, brushed his teeth or whatever else. She slept with him almost every night (she alternated that duty with my daughter's dog, a Sheltie mix (the only reason I didn't recommend that bred is the shedding) Boxers are a perfectly fine fit with kids if they're raised properly (again, more on that later)

As a teenager I had two German Shepherds at different times and they were both great with kids (although one would chase cattle) and as a kid myself, my cousin had a Malinois that accompanied us EVERYWHERE. She also was great with kids and kept us out of trouble (she'd pull us out of the river whenever we faked trouble swimming)

As far "training" a dog to cycle with you (I presume you mean run alongside as you cycle) it comes naturally to them. Just train them to follow you and they'll dot no matter if you're walking, cycling, on horseback, in a carriage, on a tractor, or whatever else. All the dogs we had as kids did all the aforementioned with no training whatsoever. It's their nature to follow the leader of the pack. Which brings me to your question about the dog bonding with one of you more than the others. Good dogs of any breed will bond with the entire family but they'll all recognize one of you they believe to be the leader.

Most importantly the dog should be socialized when very young. Socialized with people (adults and kids) and with other animals. Also no matter what breed you chose, also choose carefully within that breed. Pick a good breeder (just being a popular breeder doesn't make them a "good" one) Many breeds have been nearly ruined because they became popular and breeders rushed to fill the demand without carefully selecting their stock. Rescues are great if you have time to evaluate them. Often they end up in rescue through no fault of their own (a change in the owners' ability to care for them or keep them) but equally often they've been surrendered because personality problems. You need to be able to know which occurred. All this said, about half the dogs I've had have either been rescues from a shelter/rescue organization or strays we kept (the Boxer, Dinah, I mentioned above was one of the former)

I don't know if this option is available to y'all over there or not, but it might be worth looking into; here retired service dogs (disability dogs such as Seeing Eye guide dogs, dogs for the deaf, etc.) occasionally come up for adoption. It's rare because the disabled person's family gets first dibs, followed by its original trainer or puppy raiser, but when it happens you get a fantastic dog that already knows over 40 commands.

 

[santaman2000]

I forgot to mention a way to ease that separation anxiety when you leave it unattended. As you and I both said earlier, most adult dogs are fine with it (although some dogs are not so much) Also as we said most of the problem is when you leave. The ways to lessen this are twofold: 1) don't make a big deal out of leaving, it only gets the dog excited; and 2) leave something to distract the dog until after you're gone (a chew toy with a snack such as peanut butter inside)

 

[daveO]

I've lived with a lot of rescue dogs over the years, Collies, Spaniels and lurchers mostly and none of them have ever been a problem. They've all had their own character but all of them have been great with kids. A good rescue center will size up their dogs and only send them to suitable homes. It's up to you then to provide the right environment. You introduce any mature dog to a new 'pack' and they have to find their place in it. People who treat their dogs a bit too softly can see some of this behaviour as rescue dogs misbehaving and blame the previous owner.

Our current dog, Rocky, is soft as anything and loves kids but can be unpredictable with strange male dogs. He's smart enough to know over 40 objects by name and will fetch them on demand. He also looks very dapper in a hat.

 

[Paul_B]

Yes, leaving them is about just being normal I think. By this don't say "bye, bye!", just very your shoes, coat and go. Don't respond to the dog if it whines or barks, you're almost always reinforcing the dog's need for interaction which is counterproductive.

I'm not totally sure making a big fuss on your return is good neither. You want the dog to learn when you want interaction. By that I don't mean ignore your dog unless it's in your interest. I mean let it know interaction has got to be at the right time for you as well. That is when you're at home and not going out or busy doing stuff.

I hope that doesn't sound like I think a dog is an inconvenience. I just mean a kind of pattern needs to be set for most things in its life, it's so the dog knows things are right. If that makes sense, I don't think it makes sense but I know what I mean.

My gran used to have a terrible time getting out if the door without her Yorkie she had to pick it up, make us all leave then throw the dog down and away from the inner door before slamming it shut and going out. It's this that gives me my views on leaving. Well that and what an experienced dog owner told me about it.

BTW I've been speaking to a registered dog breeder I know. Just found out she's registered. She's been giving me advice. Her dogs spend a day in kennels. Never had any issues with them. In fact they are on a smallholding and the dogs have free range but often just go back into their kennels.

It's this solution I kind of want to have a secure outside space linked to a decent indoors space, possibly the house. Plus two dogs, I just haven't told my other half of that part of my plan. Two border terriers perhaps. Or two cocker spaniels. They've always seemed a more calm dog compared to springers and border collies. Plus get two litter puppies (same sex I think is easier) and there should be a good bond between them. A friend did that with two border collies and they ended up very calm dogs indeed.

 

[Paul_B]

BTW I do kind of like boxers but they're too big for us. My partner isn't happy with something that big, plus docked tail. I think they have them and she really doesn't approve of that. My dad grew up with a boxer as a child minder. It surprised me to hear him talk about it briefly. You could tell he missed it decades after. Plus it's just about the only thing he remembered about his childhood (although I think that was down to his mischievous nature as a kid meant he couldn't tell us much in case we got any ideas).

Anyway dogs remembered from childhood by adults seem to be a highly positive thing. I've yet to hear a negative story about a childhood dog from an adult years after. I never directly had that so part of me wants that for our son.

 

[Macaroon]

"Or two cocker spaniels. They've always seemed a more calm dog compared to springers and border collies."

If that's been your experience with Cockers you've met the exception that proves the rule; I've kept Spaniels all my life and the Cockers are the 'fizziest' of all the breeds, as a general rule.

Reading through this thread I reckon the best choice for the situation you describe would definitely be the Border Terrier. And if you mean for the dog(s) to be alone for the periods you mention you need to bear in mind that you can't leave any breed alone at all for a considerable time after you first acquire them; they need to be socialised, find their place in your pack and to have matured enough to remain psychologically sound and secure before you leave them alone in either house or garden for any length of time. That maturing soundly is what makes or breaks a dog, and it doesn't happen quickly, it can take many months and sometimes more.

I hear what many have said about leaving their dogs for longish periods, but in my experience this rarely leads to a well balanced animal and I have never done it; the longest I've ever felt comfortable with is a couple of hours maximum, and that rarely.

Just my thoughts, I don't mean to be preachy or call anybody else wrong

 

[santaman2000]

Yeah, i don't like the docked tails either. Well, kinda don't like them. It really is painless if done before their eyes are opening. At least as painless as circumcision at that age for humans. My current boxer (now an old lady) has her tail intact and I'm fine with that. Over here you can get them with their tails intact but you need to commit to it with the breeder well in advance or they'll dock them automatically the first day or two after birth. That said, i thought docking was prohibited there anyway?

I had to look up the breed standard for the Springer Spaniel to properly compare the size difference between them and boxers. Yeah, boxers are a bit bigger.

Another important thing no matter what breed is to do your best to get one with no fear of thunder and to do your best to keep it that way. If a storm comes up when they're left alone they can be very destructive trying to escape it. I've also had one dog, a Golden retriever, die of a heart attack during a storm when I was at work.

 

[santaman2000]

"Or two cocker spaniels. They've always seemed a more calm dog compared to springers and border collies."

If that's been your experience with Cockers you've met the exception that proves the rule; I've kept Spaniels all my life and the Cockers are the 'fizziest' of all the breeds, as a general rule.

Reading through this thread I reckon the best choice for the situation you describe would definitely be the Border Terrier. And if you mean for the dog(s) to be alone for the periods you mention you need to bear in mind that you can't leave any breed alone at all for a considerable time after you first acquire them; they need to be socialised, find their place in your pack and to have matured enough to remain psychologically sound and secure before you leave them alone in either house or garden for any length of time. That maturing soundly is what makes or breaks a dog, and it doesn't happen quickly, it can take many months and sometimes more.

I hear what many have said about leaving their dogs for longish periods, but in my experience this rarely leads to a well balanced animal and I have never done it; the longest I've ever felt comfortable with is a couple of hours maximum, and that rarely.

Just my thoughts, I don't mean to be preachy or call anybody else wrong

Yes about them needing much more time with you when you first get them (when young) hence my comments about puppies shouldn't be left longer than an hour for every month of their age.

 

[santaman2000]

Also if you get a female bear in mind that if you leave it intact there are other problems than the obvious unwanted attention from other male dogs. You'll also either have to use doggie diapers or put up with blood spots around the house and furniture. They can also get more aggressive towards other female dogs during their heat.

 

[erehwon]

I have read this thread with interest, many years ago I used to train and work German Shepherds as well as being involved in their rescue/welfare, at the time they were one of the most reliable dogs for this purpose. After a ten year break working abroad I returned and started looking for another German Shepherd to train, I gave up as most of the British bred ones I was offered lacked the drive needed to work (no offence intended to any owners/breeders out there). I ended up with a small Border Terrier (a breed of such character I would them recommend to anyone) and was then offered a Dutch bred Belgian Shepherd (bear in mind there are four types) who was when younger (she is fifteen now) the best dog I have had the pleasure to work with, her abilities deserved a far better handler/trainer than me! Though they have to be trained differently to German Shepherds as they not a "forgiving" dog if you raise your voice to them. On moving abroad again I spent two years working with rescue dogs mainly Turkish Kangals these were true Kangals not the Anatolian shepherd dogs that are passed off as them in the UK and was fortunate enough to own one these powerful giants for many years, not a dog for a novice owner or the house but as guardian dog they take some beating, we currently have along side our Belgian Shepherd a Kangal x Turkish sheepdog, he is an ex-street dog we rescued from the kennels I helped out at. I will say that most of our dogs have found us, not the other way around!

As a note, when living in Germany (if I remember correctly) there used to be an endurance test in Schutzhund Training where a dog had to run a certain distance alongside a bike on various roads/paths, not sure if this still exists but our two happily run alongside our bikes on and off the lead not sure my old Border terrier would have done it though she would have wanted to sit on the handlebars!

 

[Paul_B]

That used to be my view but I've kind of changed that having met ppl and their dogs who do work and who do leave for half the day without any obvious signs of a problem. Their dogs all seem well adjusted part of their family.

And tbh we'll not take on a dog (or two - see my secret plan above to sneak two dogs home) without having backup options. These currently include parents (live 2 miles away), dog walkers (there's a large number of them round this way) and a work colleague with dogs on a smallholding (a mile away down a canal so good walk there) who works part time as last resort (already offered / dog mad / dog breeder).

I think everything is manageable with plans and backups. It's part of being reasonable dog owner. The biggest part is to know when not to take a dog on. That is the ultimate point in making. This is a plan being worked through. It's one where the final decision to go ahead hasn't been taken. It won't be taken if it's not right to do so.

BTW you might sound preachy but it's what a lot of ppl need at times. I've seen dogs bought with Heart but no brain many times. Seriously, a husky in a town when you won't/can't walk for more than 10 minutes without looking like you're having a coronary?! I've seen that I kid you not!

Round this way there seems to be a good husky population. Mostly I see them on morecambe front in a pack of adults and dogs. A few GSDs with them. All are on waist harnesses (for the humans) to hold them back. A few have two attached! They're all walking very briskly and getting a very good workout for the humans. The dogs less so but they're happy.

Then you see a fat whale sat down eating chips with a very bored husky standing at full lead so obviously wanting to run! Sorry if that sounds judgemental but it makes me angry.

Back when I was a very fit person doing up to 50 miles walking a day I wouldn't even think a husky was a possibility. I firmly believe they are not a pet. They need to run. They need to pull. They're working dogs pure and simple. If you can't work them as their bred for don't own them!

Apply that to all dogs. For example cockers, let them run free through open ground, nose to the ground following a scent. Basically doing what's natural to their breed. Trained for recall obviously.

 

[Janne]

Bear in mind, Paul B, that you are not ’just’ getting a dog. You will be getting a new family member, one that will need care and love for over a decade!

Also bear in mind the added expense. Insurance can cover a lot, but mist pet indurances only cover one ’situation’ only once. Our cocker vitch Mimmi had a huge appetite, she swallowed anything. First operation, to remove a lodged peach stone was covered. The second and third operations, to retrieve a sparkplug then a large pebble, were not.

There are two more begative aspects in owning a dog: when you travel type holidays, it is in your mind most of the time. Are they taken good care of? Happy?
Plus, they are a bit messy. Food and water gets spolled. Paws are dirty when you come back from walks.

Do we regret having owned dogs for over 17 years?
No. Miss owning one!
But our increased travel makes one hugely inconvenient.

 

[Paul_B]

I think it's kind of obvious that they're a long term commitment. TBH that's part of the reason we're considering it now. The dog would be around while our son is around assuming an average of 12 years for cockers (a lifespan is seen quoted a few places online) that means our son is in final years of A levels. Possibly just before he would be going to university. It would be a family pet so this timing works well for the dog and our son. For example if the dog does live for the average lifespan then or son would be old enough to cope (easily old enough). Who knows though, my grandparents JRT IIRC lived to 18 years. Other family dogs (the other grandparents) died at 7 years. All natural causes.

Holidays? Well so far this year was our first overseas holiday as a family (unless Scotland and Wales count as overseas for English ppl). 2 weeks in Holland traveling by ferry. Whilst we want to go overseas next year too (for another cycle tour) we'll consider options.

For example we're perfectly happy to stay in the UK with the dog. We're not the sort for far flung holidays or even flying anywhere. Taking the dog to Europe is theoretical possible with animal passports. Although it's been reported that they'll go out of the window with Brexit! Plus there's family to look after the dog or kennels.

It'll all be costed out and thought about logically before emotion can kick in (before visiting breeders for example). Vet bills, food bills, grooming bills, holiday bills, etc. I've looked into typical costs for those for particular breeds. I've looked at health risks particular to certain breeds. There's a lot of studying before you can seriously consider getting a dog IMHO. It's something I've started and well into the process. Trust me I over analyze every significant purchase a bit too much. It's my nature to worry that there's a possibility I'll make the wrong purchase. Applying that to dogs results in excessively in depth study and consideration of breed / costs / etc.

 

[Janne]

Choosing a dog is the first fun part!

My dad told me a trick: once we selected the breeder and he had a litter for sale and it was time to choose the puppy, we asked to be alone with mum and babied in a room. One after each other, we laid on the floor, and checked which puppy came to us and stayed with the person on the floor. Sounds crazy, or?
Basically, we let the puppy select us.

Very unscientific, but it worked both times.
We had two lovely dogs. Had to be put down aged 13 ( stomach cancer) and 14 ( anal gland cancer)

Dogs bring an extra dimension to the family life!

I think you will be an excellent family to own a dog, as it sounds like you have given it a lot of thoughts!

 

[Robson Valley]

My GF had a Chesapeake Bay Retriever. Placid dog, not very interested in working at anything.
I decided that I should have "bird dog" for bird hunting. So I bought a CBR. The puppy came hard-wired for retrieving.
All he needed was opportunity, training wasn't needed. Didn't mind being left alone for the day (indoors in the coldest of winter.)
12 years later, a year ago April, it was obvious that his rear end couldn't hold him up any more.
I never imagined that I would be missing him so much.

 

[Paul_B]

I think it takes a lot of thinking to be sure. It's a big commitment. I'll be honest here and say it's not certain we'll get a dog yet. I am the biggest dog lover in the family but I think it's because I'm so interested in dogs that makes me need the most convincing about it. Although my partner grew up later in with a dog in her later childhood so perhaps has more knowledge of actually living with a dog.

I appreciate hearing about everyone's dog owning stories. It all helps me. Rest assured before going ahead we'll have thought of all through. Your pros and cons stories are useful with that.

Definitely not looking at springer spaniels only the smaller, less nuts cocker spaniels. Boxers are a lot bigger than them. BTW remember reading elsewhere about boxers making kind of childminder/nanny dogs. Protective over children. Just too big and daft for us

 

[Janne]

My wife was a pure cat person when met her. Did absolutely not want a dog. Noe she loves dogs too!

One thing: dogs are your best friend, never needy, never angry. Always happy to see you.
If you should fail cooking something, the dog will think it is the best meal ever!

A person that has not owned a dog will not understand the sadness we feel when ‘it is time’.
’Just a dog’. No. A cherished snd loved family mrmber.

And they love being outdoors! Rain, sunshine, day or night!

I hate this thread, reminds me how much I miss them.

 

[santaman2000]

If you like to travel the a s be easier to travel with.

 

[santaman2000]

Paul, I'm pretty sure you've already seen this (I can tell you definitely feel this way) But I thought I'd share it anyway:

He is your friend, your partner, your defender, your dog. You are his life, his love, his leader. He will be yours, faithful and true, to the last beat of his heart. You owe it to him to be worthy of such devotion.

I keep trying harder with every dog I get but I never quite feel I've earned their devotion; but your posts convince me you'll do fine whatever breed you get.